New Item Creation Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

New Item Creation Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gurrangatch
12-02-06, 01:53 PM I see in the CS 1.1 a new paragraph was added under the "Item Creation Feats" section;

Normally you may not purchase scrolls, potions, or wands that are not specifically listed in a legal source; even if that item would normally be creatable. THis means you may not purchase a scroll of ray of enfeeblement cast as a 2nd level wizard or a potion of shield. There is one exception to this rule. If your PC is capable of creating the item, you may make items that are legal for creation but are not specifically listed in a legal campaign source. You may also create items with nonstandard caster levels. (Emphasis my own)

Does this mean that tables 7-32 and 7-33 in the DMG as well as the accompanying sections on creating magic arms and armor, potions, scrolls, staffs, and wands?

Mainly I'm asking about how this rule interacts with tables 7-32 and 7-33.
Skerrit
12-02-06, 04:48 PM What I mean by this is two-fold. Lets say your 7th-level wizard knows lesser sonic orb and magic missile. Since you have the scribe scroll feat, even though lesser sonic orb isn't on the list of scrolls you can purchase (it might actually be in one of the complete book tables, but for this example lets assume it isn't), you may make scolls of it. Also, lets say you want a scroll of magic missile cast at 7th-level. Well, that's not on the chart so you can't have it. However, since you have the item creation feat and are capable of making the item yourself, you may purchase a scroll of magic missile cast at 7th-level.
Gurrangatch
12-02-06, 06:36 PM Yeah, but howabout this situation:

A rogue/wizard knowsthe spell persistent blade (Spell Compendium 154) and has Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor (I'm not sure which would govern this item but have both to make sure). Use table 7-33 in the DMG to make a rapier of use activated persistent blade, following the equation presented for use activated items it costs (spell level x caster level x 2000gp) x 4. This means that the base price is 8000gp. So to recap, you now have an item that allows you to sneak attack on every single hit you make in melee because it casts persistent blade on each use of it.

That's kinda rediculous and is only the beginning of what you can do if you strictly follow the rules of table 7-32 and 7-33.

If you want the rule to only apply to scrolls, staffs, wands, potions and such then it needs to specifically state that it does. Or that it doesn't apply to custom wondrous items.
Skerrit
12-03-06, 09:42 AM That's a good point, we weren't really considering the use of custom wondrous items, just spell items. We'll put that on the list for the next iteration of the XECS (2.0).
Gurrangatch
12-03-06, 01:51 PM Cool, I figured it was an oversight to allow custom wondrous items. Those are much more difficult to adjudicate on a general level like a campaign standards document. They're even a pain in a home game with only one DM.
Terraneaux
12-03-06, 08:12 PM You might also want to clarify that you cannot make magic items of spells that are not allowed. As it stands, an artificer or warlock could possibly create a wand of a banned spell like polymorph. I'm aure that's not your intention, but you might want to clarify the wording.
Beware of Kobold
12-04-06, 12:18 PM does this mean that someone cant purchase a potion of enlarge person at caster level 1 since the potion of enlarge person in the chart in the DMG is created at 5th caster level?
Skerrit
12-04-06, 12:51 PM Yes, if they can make it.
Beware of Kobold
12-04-06, 01:14 PM well my concern was that if someone doesnt have the brew potion feat, then they can't purchase a basic potion of a first level spell (enlarge person) at a 1st caster level, just because the editor of the DMG 3.5 copied and pasted the chart from the old 3.0 DMG
Skerrit
12-04-06, 02:42 PM That's valid, but we need a uniform system of governance for a big woldwide campaign like this. The tables in the DMG are the easy ones for us to use, rather than make specific rules for each item, and this gives a useful benefit to having an item creation feat (or being an Artificer).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gurrangatch 12-02-06, 01:53 PM	I see in the CS 1.1 a new paragraph was added under the "Item Creation Feats" section; Normally you may not purchase scrolls, potions, or wands that are not specifically listed in a legal source; even if that item would normally be creatable. THis means you may not purchase a scroll of ray of enfeeblement cast as a 2nd level wizard or a potion of shield. There is one exception to this rule. If your PC is capable of creating the item, you may make items that are legal for creation but are not specifically listed in a legal campaign source. You may also create items with nonstandard caster levels. (Emphasis my own) Does this mean that tables 7-32 and 7-33 in the DMG as well as the accompanying sections on creating magic arms and armor, potions, scrolls, staffs, and wands? Mainly I'm asking about how this rule interacts with tables 7-32 and 7-33.
Skerrit 12-02-06, 04:48 PM	What I mean by this is two-fold. Lets say your 7th-level wizard knows lesser sonic orb and magic missile. Since you have the scribe scroll feat, even though lesser sonic orb isn't on the list of scrolls you can purchase (it might actually be in one of the complete book tables, but for this example lets assume it isn't), you may make scolls of it. Also, lets say you want a scroll of magic missile cast at 7th-level. Well, that's not on the chart so you can't have it. However, since you have the item creation feat and are capable of making the item yourself, you may purchase a scroll of magic missile cast at 7th-level.
Gurrangatch 12-02-06, 06:36 PM	Yeah, but howabout this situation: A rogue/wizard knowsthe spell persistent blade (Spell Compendium 154) and has Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor (I'm not sure which would govern this item but have both to make sure). Use table 7-33 in the DMG to make a rapier of use activated persistent blade, following the equation presented for use activated items it costs (spell level x caster level x 2000gp) x 4. This means that the base price is 8000gp. So to recap, you now have an item that allows you to sneak attack on every single hit you make in melee because it casts persistent blade on each use of it. That's kinda rediculous and is only the beginning of what you can do if you strictly follow the rules of table 7-32 and 7-33. If you want the rule to only apply to scrolls, staffs, wands, potions and such then it needs to specifically state that it does. Or that it doesn't apply to custom wondrous items.
Skerrit 12-03-06, 09:42 AM	That's a good point, we weren't really considering the use of custom wondrous items, just spell items. We'll put that on the list for the next iteration of the XECS (2.0).
Gurrangatch 12-03-06, 01:51 PM	Cool, I figured it was an oversight to allow custom wondrous items. Those are much more difficult to adjudicate on a general level like a campaign standards document. They're even a pain in a home game with only one DM.
Terraneaux 12-03-06, 08:12 PM	You might also want to clarify that you cannot make magic items of spells that are not allowed. As it stands, an artificer or warlock could possibly create a wand of a banned spell like polymorph. I'm aure that's not your intention, but you might want to clarify the wording.
Beware of Kobold 12-04-06, 12:18 PM	does this mean that someone cant purchase a potion of enlarge person at caster level 1 since the potion of enlarge person in the chart in the DMG is created at 5th caster level?
Skerrit 12-04-06, 12:51 PM	Yes, if they can make it.
Beware of Kobold 12-04-06, 01:14 PM	well my concern was that if someone doesnt have the brew potion feat, then they can't purchase a basic potion of a first level spell (enlarge person) at a 1st caster level, just because the editor of the DMG 3.5 copied and pasted the chart from the old 3.0 DMG
Skerrit 12-04-06, 02:42 PM	That's valid, but we need a uniform system of governance for a big woldwide campaign like this. The tables in the DMG are the easy ones for us to use, rather than make specific rules for each item, and this gives a useful benefit to having an item creation feat (or being an Artificer).