Ohran viper [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ohran viper [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
squallrblade
07-23-06, 09:58 PM I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower?
Insulter of Bad Grammar
07-23-06, 10:02 PM Read the card.

If you don't know why it is good, I'd use it in a deck.
Carny
07-24-06, 12:12 PM I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower?

The viper is good for several reasons.

The two main ones are:

1. It draws card. All creatures that draw cards are at least considerable and slightly playable.
2. It is a GREEEN FLIER...

=

It is a green flier that draws card.

Try slap it a cloak on it and you will have a flying card drawing beat stick.
Super-duper creature...
Nis
07-24-06, 12:14 PM 2. It is a GREEEN FLIER...

I must have gotten a misprinted Ohran Viper; mine is missing the flying ability. ;)
Me_
07-24-06, 01:17 PM The viper is good for several reasons.

The two main ones are:

1. It draws card. All creatures that draw cards are at least considerable and slightly playable.
2. It is a GREEEN FLIER...

=

It is a green flier that draws card.

Try slap it a cloak on it and you will have a flying card drawing beat stick.
Super-duper creature...
ohran viper is not a flier....it kills creatures when it blocks or is blocked by them......i have no idea where you got your information from (not the card or the gatherer im sure) but it is amusingly inaccurate
squallrblade
07-24-06, 05:01 PM All my friends that had gotten a ohran viper in a pack or bought it from a card shop didnt say it had flying. You probaly got it all wrong.
Brightflame
07-24-06, 05:50 PM I must have gotten a misprinted Ohran Viper; mine is missing the flying ability. ;)

So it would seem ;) The Viper was definitely supposed to have "Flying" between its two other abilities... or at least a "GG: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn." ability.
ErrantLawnDart
07-24-06, 05:55 PM Both of the Viper's abilities either generate card advantage, or at least keep things a 1-for-1 trade.

If say you have a viper out, and your opponent has something big like a Kodama of the North Tree out. You can chump the Kodama with the Viper, and it will be a trade, and you'll only take 1 damage. With any other 3 toughness creature, you'd take the 1 damage and still have to worry about an untargetable 6/4 trample beating you about the head and shoulders.

In a better situation, the viper can block (or be blocked by) anything with 2 power or less and kill it, thats generating card advantage. Put a Moldervine Cloak on it, and suddenly its a 4/6 that can take out almost all the ground-based threats. Give it flying and/or make it untargetable and suddenly you've got something that your opponent really needs to deal with.

If its connecting with your opponent instead of other creatures, you're generating card advantage by getting to draw a card.

Magic has evolved (devolved?) into a game where card advantage means more than almost everything. Cards that generate card advantage are regarded more highly than cards that don't. That's why Dark Confidant is so popular, despite his ability being potentially quite harmful. He generates card advantage.

The viper generates card advantage, both by allowing you to draw a card if you connect with an opponent, and at least preserves the 1-for-1 in a blocking situation at worst, and at best can also lead to a 1-for-0 trade in the case of a creature with less than 3 power.

All that being said, I'm struggling to find a deck to put it in. He's not beefy enough to be in an aggro deck with such excellent 3-drops running around like Burning-Tree Shaman and Jagged Poppet, and he's not a guaranteed card advantage generator to be in a control deck. I'm thinking he belongs in a ug aggro-control deck... but I'm not sure. Maybe I'll build one tonight and test.

Sorry for the long rambling post...
Brightflame
07-24-06, 06:00 PM If say you have a viper out, and your opponent has something big like a Kodama of the North Tree out. You can chump the Kodama with the Viper, and it will be a trade, and you'll only take 1 damage. With any other 3 toughness creature, you'd take the 1 damage and still have to worry about an untargetable 6/4 trample beating you about the head and shoulders.

The Kodama has power of 6 and the Viper has only power of 3, so wouldn't you take 3 damage from Trample?
ErrantLawnDart
07-24-06, 06:35 PM The Kodama has power of 6 and the Viper has only power of 3, so wouldn't you take 3 damage from Trample?

Yeah, thats what I meant. Believe it or not, I was in a hurry to leave from work when I made that post... and I got the p/t switched in my head. :nonono:
bitterthings
07-25-06, 08:55 PM Magic has evolved (devolved?) into a game where card advantage means more than almost everything. Cards that generate card advantage are regarded more highly than cards that don't.

Hasn't magic always been about card advantage?? I.E. "The Deck" with Ancestral Recall and the what not?....
ErrantLawnDart
07-25-06, 10:18 PM Hasn't magic always been about card advantage?? I.E. "The Deck" with Ancestral Recall and the what not?....

Maybe, but, at least when I started playing (right after Arabian Nights came out), and when I quit playing (shortly after Visions came out), card advantage was secondary to everything else. But magic was still new then, and people cared about their life totals, and whatever else you sacrifice for card advantage nowadays.

It has always been about card advantage. When a game is dependent on how many cards you have in your hand, and your winning and losing essentially boils down to being able to play more cards (or at least more of the right cards) than your opponent, card advantage is naturally going to be a big deal. BUT... it has changed considerably.

Remember, people thought Necropotence sucked. The consensus was still that it sucked, as far as I knew, when I quit. Some time after Ice Age came out. It wasn't until life totals became a resource instead of something you like to keep that cards like Necropotence became used, and cards like Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena became sought after.
Templar569
07-26-06, 11:47 AM Maybe, but, at least when I started playing (right after Arabian Nights came out), and when I quit playing (shortly after Visions came out), card advantage was secondary to everything else.

??? I started playing at Beta, and card advantage has been important almost since the beginning. Certainly once the Chains of Mephistopheles decks hit, it became obvious how important it is.
thefonz37
07-26-06, 11:53 AM Ohran Viper was misprinted. It should read:

Ohran Viper - 1GG
Creature
G: Untap Ohran Viper.
G: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn.
G: Ohran Viper can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn.
1: Ohran Viper gets +1/-1 until end of turn
1: Ohran Viper gets -1/+1 until end of turn
Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat.
Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card.

I'm sure the Oracle text will be updated soon.
Me_
07-26-06, 12:50 PM Ohran Viper was misprinted. It should read:

Ohran Viper - 1GG
Creature
G: Untap Ohran Viper.
G: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn.
G: Ohran Viper can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn.
1: Ohran Viper gets +1/-1 until end of turn
1: Ohran Viper gets -1/+1 until end of turn
Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat.
Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card.

I'm sure the Oracle text will be updated soon.
ya, it was supposed to be printed with no power/toughness
it is an enchantment after all.... :rolleyes:
lotrfish
07-26-06, 02:13 PM I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower?

You're right, Ohran Viper sucks. Jokulmorder is a much better card and should be priced a lot higher than even Ohran Viper is priced at.
Blink43va
07-26-06, 11:36 PM If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's
Insulter of Bad Grammar
07-26-06, 11:48 PM If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's
Well, do you play competitive magic?
Libe
07-27-06, 12:43 AM If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's

Eh? Ohran Viper is strictly better than Deathgazer in almost every aspect:

-Its CMC is 1 less
-Has a better body for its abilities ( That -1 power is pointless, seeing as it kills everything in one hit anyway)
-No color restriction on Basilisk ability
-It draws you cards when it hits the opponent. Either they throw something in the way of it and make a trade, or you amass card advantage. Win-win.
-Better creature type. A minor point, but the snake tribe has quite a bit more support than the lizard tribe. :P

I'd have to agree with Insulter of Bad Grammar. If you don't see why its good, proxy some up and see for yourself.
Insulter of Bad Grammar
07-27-06, 12:55 AM The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature.
espio87
07-27-06, 08:04 AM The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature.
yes, but it makes a restriction for black creatures.
thefonz37
07-27-06, 09:01 AM ya, it was supposed to be printed with no power/toughness
it is an enchantment after all.... :rolleyes:

DERF DERF

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/allofyourbase/GIF%20Smiles/derrbig.gif

YER A SMART ONE
Libe
07-27-06, 04:09 PM The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature.
Meh, very well. Deathgazer gets a minor one-up in face of damage prevention, power reduction, and pro-green creatures.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
squallrblade 07-23-06, 09:58 PM	I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower?
Insulter of Bad Grammar 07-23-06, 10:02 PM	Read the card. If you don't know why it is good, I'd use it in a deck.
Carny 07-24-06, 12:12 PM	I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower? The viper is good for several reasons. The two main ones are: 1. It draws card. All creatures that draw cards are at least considerable and slightly playable. 2. It is a GREEEN FLIER... = It is a green flier that draws card. Try slap it a cloak on it and you will have a flying card drawing beat stick. Super-duper creature...
Nis 07-24-06, 12:14 PM	2. It is a GREEEN FLIER... I must have gotten a misprinted Ohran Viper; mine is missing the flying ability. ;)
Me_ 07-24-06, 01:17 PM	The viper is good for several reasons. The two main ones are: 1. It draws card. All creatures that draw cards are at least considerable and slightly playable. 2. It is a GREEEN FLIER... = It is a green flier that draws card. Try slap it a cloak on it and you will have a flying card drawing beat stick. Super-duper creature... ohran viper is not a flier....it kills creatures when it blocks or is blocked by them......i have no idea where you got your information from (not the card or the gatherer im sure) but it is amusingly inaccurate
squallrblade 07-24-06, 05:01 PM	All my friends that had gotten a ohran viper in a pack or bought it from a card shop didnt say it had flying. You probaly got it all wrong.
Brightflame 07-24-06, 05:50 PM	I must have gotten a misprinted Ohran Viper; mine is missing the flying ability. ;) So it would seem ;) The Viper was definitely supposed to have "Flying" between its two other abilities... or at least a "GG: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn." ability.
ErrantLawnDart 07-24-06, 05:55 PM	Both of the Viper's abilities either generate card advantage, or at least keep things a 1-for-1 trade. If say you have a viper out, and your opponent has something big like a Kodama of the North Tree out. You can chump the Kodama with the Viper, and it will be a trade, and you'll only take 1 damage. With any other 3 toughness creature, you'd take the 1 damage and still have to worry about an untargetable 6/4 trample beating you about the head and shoulders. In a better situation, the viper can block (or be blocked by) anything with 2 power or less and kill it, thats generating card advantage. Put a Moldervine Cloak on it, and suddenly its a 4/6 that can take out almost all the ground-based threats. Give it flying and/or make it untargetable and suddenly you've got something that your opponent really needs to deal with. If its connecting with your opponent instead of other creatures, you're generating card advantage by getting to draw a card. Magic has evolved (devolved?) into a game where card advantage means more than almost everything. Cards that generate card advantage are regarded more highly than cards that don't. That's why Dark Confidant is so popular, despite his ability being potentially quite harmful. He generates card advantage. The viper generates card advantage, both by allowing you to draw a card if you connect with an opponent, and at least preserves the 1-for-1 in a blocking situation at worst, and at best can also lead to a 1-for-0 trade in the case of a creature with less than 3 power. All that being said, I'm struggling to find a deck to put it in. He's not beefy enough to be in an aggro deck with such excellent 3-drops running around like Burning-Tree Shaman and Jagged Poppet, and he's not a guaranteed card advantage generator to be in a control deck. I'm thinking he belongs in a ug aggro-control deck... but I'm not sure. Maybe I'll build one tonight and test. Sorry for the long rambling post...
Brightflame 07-24-06, 06:00 PM	If say you have a viper out, and your opponent has something big like a Kodama of the North Tree out. You can chump the Kodama with the Viper, and it will be a trade, and you'll only take 1 damage. With any other 3 toughness creature, you'd take the 1 damage and still have to worry about an untargetable 6/4 trample beating you about the head and shoulders. The Kodama has power of 6 and the Viper has only power of 3, so wouldn't you take 3 damage from Trample?
ErrantLawnDart 07-24-06, 06:35 PM	The Kodama has power of 6 and the Viper has only power of 3, so wouldn't you take 3 damage from Trample? Yeah, thats what I meant. Believe it or not, I was in a hurry to leave from work when I made that post... and I got the p/t switched in my head. :nonono:
bitterthings 07-25-06, 08:55 PM	Magic has evolved (devolved?) into a game where card advantage means more than almost everything. Cards that generate card advantage are regarded more highly than cards that don't. Hasn't magic always been about card advantage?? I.E. "The Deck" with Ancestral Recall and the what not?....
ErrantLawnDart 07-25-06, 10:18 PM	Hasn't magic always been about card advantage?? I.E. "The Deck" with Ancestral Recall and the what not?.... Maybe, but, at least when I started playing (right after Arabian Nights came out), and when I quit playing (shortly after Visions came out), card advantage was secondary to everything else. But magic was still new then, and people cared about their life totals, and whatever else you sacrifice for card advantage nowadays. It has always been about card advantage. When a game is dependent on how many cards you have in your hand, and your winning and losing essentially boils down to being able to play more cards (or at least more of the right cards) than your opponent, card advantage is naturally going to be a big deal. BUT... it has changed considerably. Remember, people thought Necropotence sucked. The consensus was still that it sucked, as far as I knew, when I quit. Some time after Ice Age came out. It wasn't until life totals became a resource instead of something you like to keep that cards like Necropotence became used, and cards like Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena became sought after.
Templar569 07-26-06, 11:47 AM	Maybe, but, at least when I started playing (right after Arabian Nights came out), and when I quit playing (shortly after Visions came out), card advantage was secondary to everything else. ??? I started playing at Beta, and card advantage has been important almost since the beginning. Certainly once the Chains of Mephistopheles decks hit, it became obvious how important it is.
thefonz37 07-26-06, 11:53 AM	Ohran Viper was misprinted. It should read: Ohran Viper - 1GG Creature G: Untap Ohran Viper. G: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn. G: Ohran Viper can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn. 1: Ohran Viper gets +1/-1 until end of turn 1: Ohran Viper gets -1/+1 until end of turn Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat. Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card. I'm sure the Oracle text will be updated soon.
Me_ 07-26-06, 12:50 PM	Ohran Viper was misprinted. It should read: Ohran Viper - 1GG Creature G: Untap Ohran Viper. G: Ohran Viper gains flying until end of turn. G: Ohran Viper can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn. 1: Ohran Viper gets +1/-1 until end of turn 1: Ohran Viper gets -1/+1 until end of turn Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat. Whenever Ohran Viper deals combat damage to a player, you may draw a card. I'm sure the Oracle text will be updated soon. ya, it was supposed to be printed with no power/toughness it is an enchantment after all.... :rolleyes:
lotrfish 07-26-06, 02:13 PM	I dont know why Ohran viper is good and the effect is also even when i pulled one out inside in a fat pack. Also why is the price so high out of the other cs cards and will it go higher or lower? You're right, Ohran Viper sucks. Jokulmorder is a much better card and should be priced a lot higher than even Ohran Viper is priced at.
Blink43va 07-26-06, 11:36 PM	If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's
Insulter of Bad Grammar 07-26-06, 11:48 PM	If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's Well, do you play competitive magic?
Libe 07-27-06, 12:43 AM	If anything... id rather just have a bunch of Deathgazer's Eh? Ohran Viper is strictly better than Deathgazer in almost every aspect: -Its CMC is 1 less -Has a better body for its abilities ( That -1 power is pointless, seeing as it kills everything in one hit anyway) -No color restriction on Basilisk ability -It draws you cards when it hits the opponent. Either they throw something in the way of it and make a trade, or you amass card advantage. Win-win. -Better creature type. A minor point, but the snake tribe has quite a bit more support than the lizard tribe. :P I'd have to agree with Insulter of Bad Grammar. If you don't see why its good, proxy some up and see for yourself.
Insulter of Bad Grammar 07-27-06, 12:55 AM	The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature.
espio87 07-27-06, 08:04 AM	The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature. yes, but it makes a restriction for black creatures.
thefonz37 07-27-06, 09:01 AM	ya, it was supposed to be printed with no power/toughness it is an enchantment after all.... :rolleyes: DERF DERF http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/allofyourbase/GIF%20Smiles/derrbig.gif YER A SMART ONE
Libe 07-27-06, 04:09 PM	The deathgazer has one up on the Viper, though- It doesn't have to deal damage to kill the creature. Meh, very well. Deathgazer gets a minor one-up in face of damage prevention, power reduction, and pro-green creatures.