On Item Loot and EV [Archive] - Wizards Community

On Item Loot and EV [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Onslaught[IT]
01-25-07, 01:59 AM Hello,

While playing this week I had another problem with EV.

Sometimes my DM says something like "you find a cold iron sword" or "you find a potion of X and a scroll of Y", or even "you find a bag of gems".

Now, how I track that?

I suppose those things are left to EV... that includes the uncommon weapons and bags of gems, or any weapon or armor that we may loot, as any kind of 'money' (gems, coin).

But I just don't know what to do with potions and scrolls. Moreover, I don't know how to deal with a wizard's spellbook. They have starting spells, plus two per level, but after that point I'm completely lost.

Last but not least, a question that isn't RPGA-related: we have a Marshal on our party, and he has an aura that garants "+1 on damage rolls". Does it affect spells (like Magic Missile)?
pedr
01-25-07, 07:13 AM Eveything you find you can use during the adventure. Whether you use it up or not it'll be factored into the EV gain (sort of). Whether you use it up or not, it's gone at the end, unless it's specific 'event treasure' and you're playing another game at the same event. Note that this means that, unlike just about every other sort of campaign, it's best to use the consumables you find, rather than keep them for later.

Spellbooks: You get 3+int modifier first level spells. You also get your ranks in spellcraft as extra spell levels. So if you are now second level and retooling you can choose different 3+int starting spells, plus two for going up to second level, and an extra five spells. All of these have to be first level spells, as you can't cast second level spells. If you were third level, you could 'use' your six ranks in spellcraft for three second level spells - but then you'd no longer have the five first level ones you chose for the previous event.

Does that make sense? In short, spellbooks are equipment. You get to re-tool them every event, creating their contents from scratch. Though remember that the 2 spells you get at 2nd level can only ever be 1st level spells, the 3rd and 4th experience-level spells can only be 2nd level spells and so on.
Harliquinn
01-25-07, 09:44 AM Does that make sense? In short, spellbooks are equipment. You get to re-tool them every event, creating their contents from scratch. Though remember that the 2 spells you get at 2nd level can only ever be 1st level spells, the 3rd and 4th experience-level spells can only be 2nd level spells and so on.

Are you sure about this? I went back over the Campaign Standards, and it would appear that the spells you add from Wizard 2/Level and Spellcraft/Intelligence Bonus are not re-toolable (though you could continue to add new ones as Spellcraft Ranks increase).

It seems that those purchased with EV (As additional spells for an adventure) would be re-toolable, however.

I'm not 100% clear myself which of the following is correct:

You can retool:
A) Starting Wizard Spells
B) Wizard Spells gained / Level
C) Bonus Spells from Intelligence
D) Bonus Spells from Spellcraft
E) Additional Spells bought with EV

Harliquinn
Skerrit
01-25-07, 02:01 PM I admit that it isn't 100% clear right now. The intent was that spellbooks were equipment, and thus could be retooled. Expect to see a fairly thorough section updating and explaining what can and cannot be retooled for the XECS v2.0.
Harliquinn
01-25-07, 02:14 PM Are sorcerers and other "choose your spells now and forever" spontaneous casters allowed to retool spells between events as well?

Harliquinn
Onslaught[IT]
01-25-07, 04:41 PM Skerrit,

Then pedr is right?

Whether you use it up or not it'll be factored into the EV gain (sort of).

That 'sort of' means the DM reports "Hey! They found all items they could in the adventure!" wich translates into more EV than someone who didn't find the items, wheather we use it of not. Am I right?

As always, thanks!
Harliquinn
01-25-07, 05:24 PM In general you can't take items with you between adventures. The exception to this are items marked "Event Treasure". These may be taken by the same character to other games taking place at the same Event (GenCon, Game Day, D&D Experience). They are factored into your EV in the database, but since you can't update your character between adventures of an Event, this gives some benefit.

Harliquinn
Skerrit
01-25-07, 07:05 PM The EV is factored basically assuming your find/kept all the items in a given encounter. So if you defeat an orc and he has a potion of cure light wounds hidden in his boot, your getting that money whether searched the body or drank the potion.
Hellcast
01-26-07, 10:29 AM I thought wizards could only change the extra spells they buy, and i would be more balanced.What

would you say if you could change the bard or sorceror spell, between adventures?
You would say they couldn't, it's the same with wizards.For spontaneous casters, their list of spells is like their spellbook.

This is just my opinion.
pedr
01-26-07, 10:52 AM Well, yes and no. The concept of 're-tooling' has undergone a revision each with each D&D Campaign. In LotGR (I think) you could re-tool everything except your first class and your race. Stats, classes after your first, feats, skills, etc etc etc. In MoH it was more limited - by the final CS you could retool feats and skills but not classes.

In XE, under the current CS, you can retool your equipment list. So now, it seems, spontaneous casters can't retool their spells known. Whether and to what extent wizards can is unclear. It's probable that XE is going down the fixed character, unfixed equipment route. In theory this should mean that wizard spells known is also fixed - note that in D&D a wizard's list of spells known is actually different from his spellbook, as can be shown if a wizard loses his spellbook. He can prepare spells he knows from another wizard's book, and recreate the existing one more easily than starting from scratch, whereas he can't prepare spells he doesn't know from another wizard's spellbook.

This does help the continuity aspect, which MoH and LotGR lacked - but it could also encourage some people to discard a character at, say, the 10th level level-bump and create a brand new one with a better set of spells - in a sense, it makes characters who join later better in some respects (no need to choose 'sleep', for instance) than ones who've played the whole campaign to that point - although, of course, they'd lack the story objects and perhaps a bit of extra gold or a few XP which the dilligent player could have accumulated!
Harliquinn
01-26-07, 01:34 PM I like the idea of retooling only equipment in general. I think that after each iteration of the Campaign Standards, though, that there should be a retooling period for some things (especially those that change). For instance, if a new book is added, or if new options are allowed, then a retooling should be possible.

I do agree, though, that if wizards can retool all their spells known each adventure, then spontaneous casters should be able to do the same. Otherwise, I think a wizard's 'fixed' spells for wizard levels, INT bonus, and starting spellbook should be considered 'fixed' and non-retoolable. Then only spells purchased with EV could be retooled.This gives flexibility for an adventure or event, without making wizards the ultimate caster above all others.

Harliquinn
Randall Montgomery
01-26-07, 01:44 PM Technically, the PHB already allows Bards and Sorcerers to retool their spells known, although only to a small degree. Personally I don't really see the big deal, as generally spontaneous casters don't really get enough spells known that you should need to retool them too much. If you're taking that many spells that you want to get rid of, maybe you should spend a little more time researching the spells before you take them.

On the other hand, the rules for how Wizards gain spells are way too complicated, and have killed any desire I might have had to play a Wizard in Xen'drik. Now that I think of it, no one I play with is playing a Wizard, and there are six of us who play in all four factions (everyone is either a Sorcerer, Bard, or Warmage). I'd really like to see the rule for spellbooks clarified for the new XECS.
lordtiberiusfoxx
01-26-07, 06:39 PM The thing that I always found confusing was explaining "losing equipment". If you lose equipment, it gets taken out of your EV, but if you drink a potion, you get to use it again. Does that mean if someone steals my potion before I chug it that I get EV lowered? Doesn't make sense to me if a X5 cost was paid to make the item re-appear after the adventure.

Having to permanently lower EV for say, an atonement spell makes perfect sense to me. The penalty should exist.

Opinions?
Onslaught[IT]
01-27-07, 07:24 AM You get the potion back if someone steal it from you. As you said, that's why you pay x5 for it.

You only get penalty on EV when you've to cast a spell that takes XP or somethink like that. Most common situation is character death.
Marcia_S
01-28-07, 02:39 PM As I understand it, you don't lose EV if you "lose" equipment (e.g. it gets shattered, dropped into the ocean, stolen, or whatever). You only lose EV if the mod says you do for getting raised or something. If you cast spells that have an expensive component, you get that cash back, as well.

Marcia
shuntsbe
01-28-07, 05:20 PM As I understand it, you don't lose EV if you "lose" equipment (e.g. it gets shattered, dropped into the ocean, stolen, or whatever). You only lose EV if the mod says you do for getting raised or something. If you cast spells that have an expensive component, you get that cash back, as well.

Marcia

Sometimes people want to sell off their equipment during the scenario,
either to pay for NPC spellcasting or to purchase some other equipment.

Does this lower their EV? Does it matter the the equipement being sold
is a consumable (x5 cost) or a normal item? It sounds like it does not.
Marcia_S
01-28-07, 05:51 PM No matter what you do to your equipment during the mod, you get your full EV back next mod to respend.

Marcia
smerwin29
01-28-07, 06:22 PM 99.9% of the time this is correct. On a very rare occassion, you might see something written into the module where it says something differently, but it is usually done in a story object.

Note that there is an area on the Session Tracking form for GP Debt, which could theoretically be used to track lost gold.

But for the time being, EV should not be lost for losing things in game: using found treasure, getting equipment stolen or sundered, etc. The only exception, of course, are things mentioned in the adventures or in the XECS.

Shawn
Crimson Codex Guy
Onslaught[IT]
01-29-07, 12:15 PM Hello again!

I got confused about wizard's spellbook after those posts up there.

-> Does RPGA/XE have something defined about Wizard's Spellbook?

-> Can a Wizard re-tool it's spells gained on level up? Yes, yes until stated otherwise or not?

-> Can Wizards re-tool spells gained by Spellcraft bonus (I just skip that rule, btw. On wich page of XECS is it?)? Yes, yes until staed otherwise or not?

-> If a wizard wants more spells, it has to pay for the scroll (x5 Base price) and pay 100gp per spell written on spellbook. Right?

Thanks!
Woodstock
01-29-07, 12:16 PM Doubt: if a wizard write in his spellbook a magic from a found scroll (so he didn't pay 5x the price of the scroll) how will work the retool?
Skerrit
01-29-07, 02:57 PM Onslaught, a lot of good questions that I will answer/fix in v2.0 of the XECS before DDXP.

Woodstock, you don't get access to spells by finding scrolls. It just converts to EV. You still need to unlock spells via expansion slots, story objects, or campaign cards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Onslaught[IT] 01-25-07, 01:59 AM	Hello, While playing this week I had another problem with EV. Sometimes my DM says something like "you find a cold iron sword" or "you find a potion of X and a scroll of Y", or even "you find a bag of gems". Now, how I track that? I suppose those things are left to EV... that includes the uncommon weapons and bags of gems, or any weapon or armor that we may loot, as any kind of 'money' (gems, coin). But I just don't know what to do with potions and scrolls. Moreover, I don't know how to deal with a wizard's spellbook. They have starting spells, plus two per level, but after that point I'm completely lost. Last but not least, a question that isn't RPGA-related: we have a Marshal on our party, and he has an aura that garants "+1 on damage rolls". Does it affect spells (like Magic Missile)?
pedr 01-25-07, 07:13 AM	Eveything you find you can use during the adventure. Whether you use it up or not it'll be factored into the EV gain (sort of). Whether you use it up or not, it's gone at the end, unless it's specific 'event treasure' and you're playing another game at the same event. Note that this means that, unlike just about every other sort of campaign, it's best to use the consumables you find, rather than keep them for later. Spellbooks: You get 3+int modifier first level spells. You also get your ranks in spellcraft as extra spell levels. So if you are now second level and retooling you can choose different 3+int starting spells, plus two for going up to second level, and an extra five spells. All of these have to be first level spells, as you can't cast second level spells. If you were third level, you could 'use' your six ranks in spellcraft for three second level spells - but then you'd no longer have the five first level ones you chose for the previous event. Does that make sense? In short, spellbooks are equipment. You get to re-tool them every event, creating their contents from scratch. Though remember that the 2 spells you get at 2nd level can only ever be 1st level spells, the 3rd and 4th experience-level spells can only be 2nd level spells and so on.
Harliquinn 01-25-07, 09:44 AM	Does that make sense? In short, spellbooks are equipment. You get to re-tool them every event, creating their contents from scratch. Though remember that the 2 spells you get at 2nd level can only ever be 1st level spells, the 3rd and 4th experience-level spells can only be 2nd level spells and so on. Are you sure about this? I went back over the Campaign Standards, and it would appear that the spells you add from Wizard 2/Level and Spellcraft/Intelligence Bonus are not re-toolable (though you could continue to add new ones as Spellcraft Ranks increase). It seems that those purchased with EV (As additional spells for an adventure) would be re-toolable, however. I'm not 100% clear myself which of the following is correct: You can retool: A) Starting Wizard Spells B) Wizard Spells gained / Level C) Bonus Spells from Intelligence D) Bonus Spells from Spellcraft E) Additional Spells bought with EV Harliquinn
Skerrit 01-25-07, 02:01 PM	I admit that it isn't 100% clear right now. The intent was that spellbooks were equipment, and thus could be retooled. Expect to see a fairly thorough section updating and explaining what can and cannot be retooled for the XECS v2.0.
Harliquinn 01-25-07, 02:14 PM	Are sorcerers and other "choose your spells now and forever" spontaneous casters allowed to retool spells between events as well? Harliquinn
Onslaught[IT] 01-25-07, 04:41 PM	Skerrit, Then pedr is right? Whether you use it up or not it'll be factored into the EV gain (sort of). That 'sort of' means the DM reports "Hey! They found all items they could in the adventure!" wich translates into more EV than someone who didn't find the items, wheather we use it of not. Am I right? As always, thanks!
Harliquinn 01-25-07, 05:24 PM	In general you can't take items with you between adventures. The exception to this are items marked "Event Treasure". These may be taken by the same character to other games taking place at the same Event (GenCon, Game Day, D&D Experience). They are factored into your EV in the database, but since you can't update your character between adventures of an Event, this gives some benefit. Harliquinn
Skerrit 01-25-07, 07:05 PM	The EV is factored basically assuming your find/kept all the items in a given encounter. So if you defeat an orc and he has a potion of cure light wounds hidden in his boot, your getting that money whether searched the body or drank the potion.
Hellcast 01-26-07, 10:29 AM	I thought wizards could only change the extra spells they buy, and i would be more balanced.What would you say if you could change the bard or sorceror spell, between adventures? You would say they couldn't, it's the same with wizards.For spontaneous casters, their list of spells is like their spellbook. This is just my opinion.
pedr 01-26-07, 10:52 AM	Well, yes and no. The concept of 're-tooling' has undergone a revision each with each D&D Campaign. In LotGR (I think) you could re-tool everything except your first class and your race. Stats, classes after your first, feats, skills, etc etc etc. In MoH it was more limited - by the final CS you could retool feats and skills but not classes. In XE, under the current CS, you can retool your equipment list. So now, it seems, spontaneous casters can't retool their spells known. Whether and to what extent wizards can is unclear. It's probable that XE is going down the fixed character, unfixed equipment route. In theory this should mean that wizard spells known is also fixed - note that in D&D a wizard's list of spells known is actually different from his spellbook, as can be shown if a wizard loses his spellbook. He can prepare spells he knows from another wizard's book, and recreate the existing one more easily than starting from scratch, whereas he can't prepare spells he doesn't know from another wizard's spellbook. This does help the continuity aspect, which MoH and LotGR lacked - but it could also encourage some people to discard a character at, say, the 10th level level-bump and create a brand new one with a better set of spells - in a sense, it makes characters who join later better in some respects (no need to choose 'sleep', for instance) than ones who've played the whole campaign to that point - although, of course, they'd lack the story objects and perhaps a bit of extra gold or a few XP which the dilligent player could have accumulated!
Harliquinn 01-26-07, 01:34 PM	I like the idea of retooling only equipment in general. I think that after each iteration of the Campaign Standards, though, that there should be a retooling period for some things (especially those that change). For instance, if a new book is added, or if new options are allowed, then a retooling should be possible. I do agree, though, that if wizards can retool all their spells known each adventure, then spontaneous casters should be able to do the same. Otherwise, I think a wizard's 'fixed' spells for wizard levels, INT bonus, and starting spellbook should be considered 'fixed' and non-retoolable. Then only spells purchased with EV could be retooled.This gives flexibility for an adventure or event, without making wizards the ultimate caster above all others. Harliquinn
Randall Montgomery 01-26-07, 01:44 PM	Technically, the PHB already allows Bards and Sorcerers to retool their spells known, although only to a small degree. Personally I don't really see the big deal, as generally spontaneous casters don't really get enough spells known that you should need to retool them too much. If you're taking that many spells that you want to get rid of, maybe you should spend a little more time researching the spells before you take them. On the other hand, the rules for how Wizards gain spells are way too complicated, and have killed any desire I might have had to play a Wizard in Xen'drik. Now that I think of it, no one I play with is playing a Wizard, and there are six of us who play in all four factions (everyone is either a Sorcerer, Bard, or Warmage). I'd really like to see the rule for spellbooks clarified for the new XECS.
lordtiberiusfoxx 01-26-07, 06:39 PM	The thing that I always found confusing was explaining "losing equipment". If you lose equipment, it gets taken out of your EV, but if you drink a potion, you get to use it again. Does that mean if someone steals my potion before I chug it that I get EV lowered? Doesn't make sense to me if a X5 cost was paid to make the item re-appear after the adventure. Having to permanently lower EV for say, an atonement spell makes perfect sense to me. The penalty should exist. Opinions?
Onslaught[IT] 01-27-07, 07:24 AM	You get the potion back if someone steal it from you. As you said, that's why you pay x5 for it. You only get penalty on EV when you've to cast a spell that takes XP or somethink like that. Most common situation is character death.
Marcia_S 01-28-07, 02:39 PM	As I understand it, you don't lose EV if you "lose" equipment (e.g. it gets shattered, dropped into the ocean, stolen, or whatever). You only lose EV if the mod says you do for getting raised or something. If you cast spells that have an expensive component, you get that cash back, as well. Marcia
shuntsbe 01-28-07, 05:20 PM	As I understand it, you don't lose EV if you "lose" equipment (e.g. it gets shattered, dropped into the ocean, stolen, or whatever). You only lose EV if the mod says you do for getting raised or something. If you cast spells that have an expensive component, you get that cash back, as well. Marcia Sometimes people want to sell off their equipment during the scenario, either to pay for NPC spellcasting or to purchase some other equipment. Does this lower their EV? Does it matter the the equipement being sold is a consumable (x5 cost) or a normal item? It sounds like it does not.
Marcia_S 01-28-07, 05:51 PM	No matter what you do to your equipment during the mod, you get your full EV back next mod to respend. Marcia
smerwin29 01-28-07, 06:22 PM	99.9% of the time this is correct. On a very rare occassion, you might see something written into the module where it says something differently, but it is usually done in a story object. Note that there is an area on the Session Tracking form for GP Debt, which could theoretically be used to track lost gold. But for the time being, EV should not be lost for losing things in game: using found treasure, getting equipment stolen or sundered, etc. The only exception, of course, are things mentioned in the adventures or in the XECS. Shawn Crimson Codex Guy
Onslaught[IT] 01-29-07, 12:15 PM	Hello again! I got confused about wizard's spellbook after those posts up there. -> Does RPGA/XE have something defined about Wizard's Spellbook? -> Can a Wizard re-tool it's spells gained on level up? Yes, yes until stated otherwise or not? -> Can Wizards re-tool spells gained by Spellcraft bonus (I just skip that rule, btw. On wich page of XECS is it?)? Yes, yes until staed otherwise or not? -> If a wizard wants more spells, it has to pay for the scroll (x5 Base price) and pay 100gp per spell written on spellbook. Right? Thanks!
Woodstock 01-29-07, 12:16 PM	Doubt: if a wizard write in his spellbook a magic from a found scroll (so he didn't pay 5x the price of the scroll) how will work the retool?
Skerrit 01-29-07, 02:57 PM	Onslaught, a lot of good questions that I will answer/fix in v2.0 of the XECS before DDXP. Woodstock, you don't get access to spells by finding scrolls. It just converts to EV. You still need to unlock spells via expansion slots, story objects, or campaign cards.