Purchasing scrolls of 5th level Spell Compendium spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Purchasing scrolls of 5th level Spell Compendium spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zdrake
08-07-07, 01:29 AM I'm trying to figure out how I can have a character with a scroll of a 5th level sorcerer/wizard spell from Spell Compendium. (I like to make characters that can pull out a big "boom" when necessary.)

Normally, you can't purchase scrolls that aren't already listed in a legal source. The scroll of the Spell Compendium spell I'm interested in isn't listed in a legal source (it's not in the random treasure tables in the back of the Magic Item Compendium).

What if you unlock the spell with an expansion slot? It seems like even then, you can't purchase a scroll of that spell.

It seems like the only way to be able to purchase the scroll is to be able to make it yourself. I'm starting new, so my character would be 7th level. It seems like the only 7th level character capable of making a scroll of a 5th level spell is an artificer. So if I make an artificer, and unlock the 5th level spell with an expansion slot, I should be able to purchase the scroll, right? And I get the "you can craft it yourself" discount.

Of course, I have to be able to make the DC 27 Use Magic Device check (because the scroll is actually created at 7th level) , but that's another problem altogether...

Is there any way to get a scroll of a 5th level Spell Compendium spell into the hands of a 7th level Xendrik character?
Hsien
08-07-07, 02:18 PM Check out the 3.0 Campaign Guide that is now out.
Spell Compendium is a listed usable source
Check the Restricted Spell list.

As far as scroll or having to craft it; if it's not listed in the Magic Item Compendium I think you would have to be able to craft it yourself.

edited:
zdrake
08-08-07, 10:20 PM OK, I should probably just come clean and state what I'm trying to do: I am trying to get a Xendrik Campaigns character to cast Dragon Ally, Lesser from Spell Compendium.

I think a 7th level Artificer can do it if an expansion slot is used to unlock the spell.

Scrolls don't have CL prerequisites: the example in the ECS shows a 3rd level artificer making a scroll of Fireball but at CL 3, so I don't see why I couldn't have a 7th level artificer scribe a scroll of Dragon Ally, Lesser at CL 7 instead of 9.

The cost of the item would be:
spell leve 5 x caster level 7 x 25 = 875.
+500 for the 100 XP cost = 1375.
x 2 for being a consumable item, but one you're crafting yourself = 2,750

This is well within the level limit for a 7th level character.

Now, assuming the artificer can make the DC 27 Use Magic Device check, there's the matter of what kind of dragon you can summon, its stats, and the payment to the dragon.

Looking at the rules for summoning spells in the Campaign Standards 3.0 doc, you can only summon creatures specifically mentioned in the spell description, and only "standard" versions of those creatures. The spell description mentions only "a dragon", so that seems to imply any actual dragon. But what is a "standard" dragon? Their feats and skills aren't all statted out: only 1 example for each type of dragon is done. Taking things conservatively, let's say it means only dragons whose stats are listed an fleshed out in Monster Manual. The Bronze Dragon is a nice choice, as it has exactly 15 HD, the maximum allowable by the spell. It's feat and spell choices aren't what I'd pick, but it's still very powerful. And using its shape shifting ability, it could get anywhere a medium sized creature could get and pass itself off as a human for social situations.

The payment: since the spell takes 10 minutes to cast and you want your dragon to already be there when you need it, it would be nice if you could have the dragon stay with you a long time: 7 days would cost 7,500 or up to 15,000 if the task is "Especially Hazardous". Let's just assume that any adventure is going to be especially Hazardous, so we can avoid arguments with the DM. This would require a payment of 15,000 gp. Note that this is NOT a consumable material component, or even a component that can be treated as currency as described on page 11 of the Campaign Standards 3.0. The spell has NO material component. It's just a bribe. So if I set aside enough from my EV I should be able to pay out of pocket, it should renew every adventure. (And even if it's ruled a "currency component", I could just "buy" two 7,500gp "dragon bribes" that would also renew every adventure.)

So the scroll+bribe cost is 17,750, which is under the 19,000gp EV for 7th level starting characters. That leaves almost no room for other equipment, but when you have a 15HD dragon, who cares?

So my starting 7th level artificer, assuming a successful DC 27 UMD check (shouldn't be too hard, especially with action dice available), should be able to have a CR 9, 142 hp Large Bronze Dragon helping the party for 7 days, right? And if I have a mundane item that the dragon was willing to wear (a dragon sized ring, amulet, or whatever), I could then buff the dragon with infusions, etc. Right?

Am I very evil and bad? Or is this small potatoes compared to the usual min-maxing that goes on in this campaign?
Lilinthra
08-08-07, 11:43 PM Looking at the rules for summoning spells in the Campaign Standards 3.0 doc, you can only summon creatures specifically mentioned in the spell description, and only "standard" versions of those creatures. The spell description mentions only "a dragon", so that seems to imply any actual dragon. But what is a "standard" dragon? Their feats and skills aren't all statted out: only 1 example for each type of dragon is done. Taking things conservatively, let's say it means only dragons whose stats are listed an fleshed out in Monster Manual.
Taking things conservatively would be not allowing the spell to work both because the spell doesn't specifically mention age/color and there is no standard true dragon. :)
Istaran
08-09-07, 12:33 AM I believe zdrake has it right on what the spell does. The money you pay the dragon is just that - money. The dragon has to be one of the example dragons from the PHB. Any of those qualifies as specifically mentioned by the spell as "a dragon". The specific mention clause forbids other monsters from adding themselves into the list, as is common for summon monster/nature's ally spells.
However, you are at least partly wrong on the making of the scroll. A 7th level artificer must pay to create a 5th level spell scroll as though it were caster level 9, even though it functions at caster level 7. See the Fireball example you cited.
I'm also not 100% clear on it, but I think you might need to have 12 ranks of UMD to make the scroll. I'm not quite certain how the UMD ranks - 3 rule in XECS interacts with the artificer ability to make scrolls of higher spell levels.
Timlagor
08-09-07, 12:57 PM You got the scroll cost wrong because the price an Artificer pays would be the price of a CL9 even though it only works at CL7.

I'd want to know exactly when you were casting this spell and the Dragon would be an NPC (not under your control).
Uthrac
08-10-07, 09:15 AM Based on the Xen'drik Expedition Campaign Standards:

For an artificer, the maximum CL for crafting is the minimum of:

Ranks in UMD - 3
Artificer Level +2

So, for a straight class with max ranks, maximum caster level = artificer level.

For a multi-class artificer, the second restriction may reduce the max level.

For example:

A level 7 artificer with 10 ranks in UMD (maxed) gets the minimum of:
10 - 3 = 7
7 + 2 = 9
So, caster level 9.

A 3rd level artificer / 4th level rogue with 10 ranks in UMD (maxed) gets the minium of:
10 - 3 = 7
3 + 2 = 5
So, caster level 5.

Within the campaign standards, you have to be a 9th level character to be able to craft an item with a 5th level spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zdrake 08-07-07, 01:29 AM	I'm trying to figure out how I can have a character with a scroll of a 5th level sorcerer/wizard spell from Spell Compendium. (I like to make characters that can pull out a big "boom" when necessary.) Normally, you can't purchase scrolls that aren't already listed in a legal source. The scroll of the Spell Compendium spell I'm interested in isn't listed in a legal source (it's not in the random treasure tables in the back of the Magic Item Compendium). What if you unlock the spell with an expansion slot? It seems like even then, you can't purchase a scroll of that spell. It seems like the only way to be able to purchase the scroll is to be able to make it yourself. I'm starting new, so my character would be 7th level. It seems like the only 7th level character capable of making a scroll of a 5th level spell is an artificer. So if I make an artificer, and unlock the 5th level spell with an expansion slot, I should be able to purchase the scroll, right? And I get the "you can craft it yourself" discount. Of course, I have to be able to make the DC 27 Use Magic Device check (because the scroll is actually created at 7th level) , but that's another problem altogether... Is there any way to get a scroll of a 5th level Spell Compendium spell into the hands of a 7th level Xendrik character?
Hsien 08-07-07, 02:18 PM	Check out the 3.0 Campaign Guide that is now out. Spell Compendium is a listed usable source Check the Restricted Spell list. As far as scroll or having to craft it; if it's not listed in the Magic Item Compendium I think you would have to be able to craft it yourself. edited:
zdrake 08-08-07, 10:20 PM	OK, I should probably just come clean and state what I'm trying to do: I am trying to get a Xendrik Campaigns character to cast Dragon Ally, Lesser from Spell Compendium. I think a 7th level Artificer can do it if an expansion slot is used to unlock the spell. Scrolls don't have CL prerequisites: the example in the ECS shows a 3rd level artificer making a scroll of Fireball but at CL 3, so I don't see why I couldn't have a 7th level artificer scribe a scroll of Dragon Ally, Lesser at CL 7 instead of 9. The cost of the item would be: spell leve 5 x caster level 7 x 25 = 875. +500 for the 100 XP cost = 1375. x 2 for being a consumable item, but one you're crafting yourself = 2,750 This is well within the level limit for a 7th level character. Now, assuming the artificer can make the DC 27 Use Magic Device check, there's the matter of what kind of dragon you can summon, its stats, and the payment to the dragon. Looking at the rules for summoning spells in the Campaign Standards 3.0 doc, you can only summon creatures specifically mentioned in the spell description, and only "standard" versions of those creatures. The spell description mentions only "a dragon", so that seems to imply any actual dragon. But what is a "standard" dragon? Their feats and skills aren't all statted out: only 1 example for each type of dragon is done. Taking things conservatively, let's say it means only dragons whose stats are listed an fleshed out in Monster Manual. The Bronze Dragon is a nice choice, as it has exactly 15 HD, the maximum allowable by the spell. It's feat and spell choices aren't what I'd pick, but it's still very powerful. And using its shape shifting ability, it could get anywhere a medium sized creature could get and pass itself off as a human for social situations. The payment: since the spell takes 10 minutes to cast and you want your dragon to already be there when you need it, it would be nice if you could have the dragon stay with you a long time: 7 days would cost 7,500 or up to 15,000 if the task is "Especially Hazardous". Let's just assume that any adventure is going to be especially Hazardous, so we can avoid arguments with the DM. This would require a payment of 15,000 gp. Note that this is NOT a consumable material component, or even a component that can be treated as currency as described on page 11 of the Campaign Standards 3.0. The spell has NO material component. It's just a bribe. So if I set aside enough from my EV I should be able to pay out of pocket, it should renew every adventure. (And even if it's ruled a "currency component", I could just "buy" two 7,500gp "dragon bribes" that would also renew every adventure.) So the scroll+bribe cost is 17,750, which is under the 19,000gp EV for 7th level starting characters. That leaves almost no room for other equipment, but when you have a 15HD dragon, who cares? So my starting 7th level artificer, assuming a successful DC 27 UMD check (shouldn't be too hard, especially with action dice available), should be able to have a CR 9, 142 hp Large Bronze Dragon helping the party for 7 days, right? And if I have a mundane item that the dragon was willing to wear (a dragon sized ring, amulet, or whatever), I could then buff the dragon with infusions, etc. Right? Am I very evil and bad? Or is this small potatoes compared to the usual min-maxing that goes on in this campaign?
Lilinthra 08-08-07, 11:43 PM	Looking at the rules for summoning spells in the Campaign Standards 3.0 doc, you can only summon creatures specifically mentioned in the spell description, and only "standard" versions of those creatures. The spell description mentions only "a dragon", so that seems to imply any actual dragon. But what is a "standard" dragon? Their feats and skills aren't all statted out: only 1 example for each type of dragon is done. Taking things conservatively, let's say it means only dragons whose stats are listed an fleshed out in Monster Manual. Taking things conservatively would be not allowing the spell to work both because the spell doesn't specifically mention age/color and there is no standard true dragon. :)
Istaran 08-09-07, 12:33 AM	I believe zdrake has it right on what the spell does. The money you pay the dragon is just that - money. The dragon has to be one of the example dragons from the PHB. Any of those qualifies as specifically mentioned by the spell as "a dragon". The specific mention clause forbids other monsters from adding themselves into the list, as is common for summon monster/nature's ally spells. However, you are at least partly wrong on the making of the scroll. A 7th level artificer must pay to create a 5th level spell scroll as though it were caster level 9, even though it functions at caster level 7. See the Fireball example you cited. I'm also not 100% clear on it, but I think you might need to have 12 ranks of UMD to make the scroll. I'm not quite certain how the UMD ranks - 3 rule in XECS interacts with the artificer ability to make scrolls of higher spell levels.
Timlagor 08-09-07, 12:57 PM	You got the scroll cost wrong because the price an Artificer pays would be the price of a CL9 even though it only works at CL7. I'd want to know exactly when you were casting this spell and the Dragon would be an NPC (not under your control).
Uthrac 08-10-07, 09:15 AM	Based on the Xen'drik Expedition Campaign Standards: For an artificer, the maximum CL for crafting is the minimum of: Ranks in UMD - 3 Artificer Level +2 So, for a straight class with max ranks, maximum caster level = artificer level. For a multi-class artificer, the second restriction may reduce the max level. For example: A level 7 artificer with 10 ranks in UMD (maxed) gets the minimum of: 10 - 3 = 7 7 + 2 = 9 So, caster level 9. A 3rd level artificer / 4th level rogue with 10 ranks in UMD (maxed) gets the minium of: 10 - 3 = 7 3 + 2 = 5 So, caster level 5. Within the campaign standards, you have to be a 9th level character to be able to craft an item with a 5th level spell.