Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Timlagor 07-30-07, 07:16 AM	We're expecting a new XECS soon and I wanted to contribute my thoughts before it gets finalised. Obviously the powers that be won't agree with everything I say but at least I'll be putting my ideas before them. The numbers are entirely meaningless: I just put them in for ease of reference. Some points I think are pretty important and others are just ideas.. but people can make their own minds up on the merits of each point. Please feel free to add to, dispute, support or othewise discuss my list. 1) Ban more stuff - the LG Restricted list would be a good starting point but I'd certainly concede that it would still be a significant amount of work. -I'm not really bothered on this one but there is some seriously overpowered stuff available to PCs which considerably increases the power spread. 2) Make Expansion Slots Retoolable at Level Bumps It makes very little sense to fix ESlots when so much else can be changed. The current rules make it much harder to create characters than it might be and discourage the use of interesting but limitted-life items/spells. 3) Allow more spells/items per ESlot There's lots of good stuff out there. The ESlot limit certainly does have an impact on character power but it's actually a relatively minor impact. However I'd prefer... 4) Unlock Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium globally There's lots of cool stuff in those books.. let's play with it! Some of it is overpowered but the vast majority of the extra stuff that would enter the campaign would be the interesting stuff that isn't quite powerful or Character-critical enough to be worth a valuable ESlot. - in any event some clear decision on the MIC item rules seems necessary 5) Allow Expedition Adventures to be played online. I don't know what the reasons for disallowing this are but with the change in LG I reckon it's worth asking for :) Speaking for myself, allowing this would mean more play with the cost in terms of lost ftf games be nil at my end. I don't know how much bias against online play there is or if keeping the Expedition games offline has any benefits for anyone ..but I'd like to be able to play them online. 6) Explain how Boccob's Blessed Book works with the spellbook rules 7) Remove the 'Caster Level is a requirement for item crafting' houserule. It's now very clear that that's not the WotC position and it's been removed from LG (largely because a lot of the listed CLs are a bit silly). The current wording of the XECS implies that the writer hadn't read the DMG errata... - this is more a matter of cutting an unnecessary houserule than any real problem with the rule itself. - it's just about possible 8) It would be nice to be able to add a Creation card later if it was relevant as they still seem to be getting printed. (or did I make that up?) 9) Remove the D&D FAQ as a rules source -Oops that's an LG moan ;) ..the FAQ doesn't seem to have any particular standing in XE which is something good that I hadn't realised.
Onslaught[IT] 07-30-07, 09:17 AM	10) Allow poison use for CoS characters with reasonable prices :D. 11) Dates set to each module. It would be nice to know in which year/month/day we are.
Marcus Majarra 07-30-07, 01:41 PM	12) Expand primary sources. Rather, make other books primary and unlocked sources, as far granting access to race/class features go. This can be an issue for certain characters, like soulborns and psions. Psions gain a bonus Psionic feat at 1st level, but can't actually take it without also unlocking the specific bonus feat. My suggestion would be to unlock the primary source for a race/class for the purpose of its race/class abilities. For example, the EPH should be considered unlocked for the purpose of meeting the psion's class features, including the power list, available bonus Psionic feats, etc. Similarly, MoI should be considered unlocked for the purpose of meeting the soulborn's class features, including the soulmeld list, available bonus Incarnum feats, etc. These features would be unlocked ONLY for the purpose of meeting race/class features.
lseelba 07-30-07, 02:23 PM	12A) Expand the primary sources to Eberron materials. I'm tired of playing in different campaigns and seeing the same old optimized builds. If you ban the broken stuff from the 'complete' books, and open up more Eberron books, it makes the campaign more unique and fun to play and DM. My recommendations for additional primary sources: Player's Guide to Eberron, Dragonmarked, Explorer's Handbook, Faiths of Eberron, Magic of Eberron, Races of Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik.
Harliquinn 07-30-07, 02:32 PM	I would like to voice my agreement with the "Ban more broken rules; Unlock more campaign specific rules" wishes. I would also like to see Expansion Slots retoolable (except for the 1st level one). In many cases, the expansion slots will end up the same. However, in some cases, the choice of feats, spells, or other abilities may be replaced if they are found not to be at all useful in the campaign.
Onslaught[IT] 07-30-07, 02:35 PM	That makes us three.
Istaran 07-30-07, 03:31 PM	With respect to #12, there's a creation card out there that essentially unlocks the entire Magic of Incarnum book. I think there are a few that do that for XPH if I'm not mistaken. I personally retired my BWC char and recreated under very similar lines (shifting the order I take certain classes around is about all the difference) in order to use that card. Incarnum and psionics are still playable w/o the full-book unlocks, but those cards are undeniably quite valuable for characters that make proper use of them. With respect to #12a, I totally agree... the Eberron source books should be fully opened. I would take Dragon Prophesier, a highly flavor-appropriate class for my spellscale Dragon Shaman/Sorcerer, if I didn't need those e-slots for spells. (I've got a story object giving me access to the class, but I still have to spend 5 e-slots; 2 for the feat prereq, and 3 for the class.. I cast only non-somatic spells, so I need all my e-slots to unlock viable spell options, so I just can't afford it.) From what I've seen there's plenty of interesting and flavorful things in those books, but I haven't seen anything particularly overpowered. Has anyone else? (And they could be line-item banned if they were..)
Marcus Majarra 07-30-07, 03:35 PM	With respect to #12, there's a creation card out there that essentially unlocks the entire Magic of Incarnum book. I think there are a few that do that for XPH if I'm not mistaken. I personally retired my BWC char and recreated under very similar lines (shifting the order I take certain classes around is about all the difference) in order to use that card. Incarnum and psionics are still playable w/o the full-book unlocks, but those cards are undeniably quite valuable for characters that make proper use of them. What I was saying was that whenever something became unlocked for you, that it also unlocked enough for you to meet its class features. Unlocking psion alone is not enough for you to enjoy its class features; you also need to unlock one or more psionic feats (you need 13 expansion slots to fully use the class; 3 for the class itself, and 10 for the five bonus psionic feats).
Timlagor 08-02-07, 02:10 PM	13) Give us back our Retain Essence Even without the ability to make any use of the power, being able to suck the magic out of stuff is way cool ...and potentially powerful. 300gp is pretty close to meaningless when you have over 19,000gp.
Istaran 08-02-07, 03:17 PM	What I was saying was that whenever something became unlocked for you, that it also unlocked enough for you to meet its class features. Unlocking psion alone is not enough for you to enjoy its class features; you also need to unlock one or more psionic feats (you need 13 expansion slots to fully use the class; 3 for the class itself, and 10 for the five bonus psionic feats). I do believe 'psionic feats' should include all feats in the same source book as though they were listed out individually. If that were the case you could take those feats as bonus feats within the class without spending expansion slots to unlock them. I believe that would be an appropriate change to concider for the next XECS. (The 13 expansion slot cost just to fully use the class as you mentioned is one of the reasons I haven't bothered picking up a XPH and making a psionic character. I've got enough other things I want to try out without resorting to such things.)
Garden_State_Gamer 08-03-07, 09:06 AM	Unlock Races of Eberron too, while you're at it. I don't know if every Eberron book should be unlocked. The Xen'Drik book makes sense, and the Dragonmarked book should be unlocked for BWC. But the more stuff you unlock, the more of a hassle it becomes for the GMs who have to be at least passively savvy on them. I also agree with the Expansion slot idea.
Timlagor 08-03-07, 05:23 PM	To clarify my point about expansion slots: It's not that people will only take the really powerful stuff so much as they there's a strong incentive not to take things that you will only use for a couple of levels (usually because something else will fill theslot later).
Amaes_Drakon 08-05-07, 03:32 PM	13) Give us back our Retain Essence Even without the ability to make any use of the power, being able to suck the magic out of stuff is way cool ...and potentially powerful. 300gp is pretty close to meaningless when you have over 19,000gp. He's got a good point here. At 5th level when you get this ability replacement, 300gp is equal to 60% of your craft reserve and 3.3% of the average character wealth. At 7th level, 300gp is equal to 30% of your craft reserve and 1.6% of the average character wealth. It's lost half it's potency in 2 levels alone, and will only get worse as time goes on.
Shandronas 08-05-07, 09:12 PM	All the more reason to give it up for weapon familiar!
Amaes_Drakon 08-05-07, 10:58 PM	All the more reason to give it up for weapon familiar! Exactly what I plan on, for exactly that reason.
JJeff 08-06-07, 01:05 AM	After running all the XE games for my players I have come to one conclusion, the items in MIC are very powerful, especially when they are uses per day items and not charge items, thus exempting them from the 5x cost. The combat and puzzle traps sometimes are too easy if you can teleport 10 feet 2/day for only 1400gp or turn your attack into a Melee Touch attack 3/day for only 3000gp or even summon creatures for less than 1000gp 1/day. The players are buying multiples of them and spreading the love.... Just my opinion
Lilinthra 08-06-07, 08:37 AM	13) Give us back our Retain Essence Even without the ability to make any use of the power, being able to suck the magic out of stuff is way cool ...and potentially powerful. 300gp is pretty close to meaningless when you have over 19,000gp. I'm going to disagree with giving back Retain Essence. The three main things that I can see it being used for are "treasure" magic items, magic traps, and certain types of puzzles. Being able to destroy or bypass those (with a day's wait, of course), is going to be interfering with the XP & GP rewards for a module, and going to be a lame way past the latter two. Using a system that scales would be okay.
Harliquinn 08-06-07, 09:39 AM	After running all the XE games for my players I have come to one conclusion, the items in MIC are very powerful, especially when they are uses per day items and not charge items, thus exempting them from the 5x cost. The combat and puzzle traps sometimes are too easy if you can teleport 10 feet 2/day for only 1400gp or turn your attack into a Melee Touch attack 3/day for only 3000gp or even summon creatures for less than 1000gp 1/day. The players are buying multiples of them and spreading the love.... Just my opinion A few things to keep in mind... 1) The teleport 10 feet 2/day has to be within line of sight/effect IIRC. Therefore, the only type of puzzle/trap that it might bypass would be a pit or something similar. You can't teleport behind a door, wall, ceiling, etc. 2) Not sure why a melee touch attack 3/day would affect puzzle traps. I don't know all the other restrictions, but I'm guessing it's activated by a move action? Which would limit your attacks (albeit a good one) to 1 / round. 3) The summoning items will be restricted with the next XECS. Harliquinn
Timlagor 08-06-07, 10:39 AM	A few things to keep in mind... 1) The teleport 10 feet 2/day has to be within line of sight/effect IIRC. Therefore, the only type of puzzle/trap that it might bypass would be a pit or something similar. You can't teleport behind a door, wall, ceiling, etc. What item is this? Where are you getting the restriction from? AFAICS teleport effects do not usually require either LoS or LoE (in the material plane). Teleportation effects happen through the Astral Plane (usually; Shadow is quite common too) so if there was something blocking LoE in that Plane it might stop you but a mere wall would not (even a Wall of Force). Many traps and puzzles can also be bypassed with an adamantine weapon. (it's easy to do 60hp damage per round against rock which only has about 115hp per 5' cube) These are things to consider when designing puzzles but not necessarily things that should be prevented completely. It's still true that the slotted items in the MIC that have uses/day and don't require an atunement period are generally underpriced -probably because they failed to take into account that people can change them freely once they are used up. 3) The summoning items will be restricted with the next XECS. All of them? -I'm sure they'll deal with the typo'd one... It seems that many GMs failed to enforce the number of actions it requires to change slotted items: Move: remove used item Free/Move: drop/store used item Move: retrieve unused item Move: put on unused item ?Standard: activate unused item That's at least two full rounds of actions between activation of one item and the next (CR7 creature for 900gp or whatever is still gross but that aside..)
Harliquinn 08-06-07, 10:46 AM	What item is this? Where are you getting the restriction from? AFAICS teleport effects do not usually require either LoS or LoE (in the material plane). Teleportation effects happen through the Astral Plane (usually; Shadow is quite common too) so if there was something blocking LoE in that Plane it might stop you but a mere wall would not (even a Wall of Force). The Anklet of Translocation, the Boots of <whatever> are two of the items I remember having a limitation in the item description that says you have to see where you are teleporting to. Many traps and puzzles can also be bypassed with an adamantine weapon. (it's easy to do 60hp damage per round against rock which only has about 115hp per 5' cube) These are things to consider when designing puzzles but not necessarily things that should be prevented completely. Depends on the puzzle really. Since I'm sure module authors can't take everything into consideration, I always go with the spirit of the module. If the puzzle cannot be bypassed in mundane ways (adamantine being a mundane way), just say there are lacings of adamantite within the walls. Some adventures say that "breaking through will take too long" in which case this is also true. It's still true that the slotted items in the MIC that have uses/day and don't require an atunement period are generally underpriced -probably because they failed to take into account that people can change them freely once they are used up. The attunement is a problem I agree. Any of those / day items should require an attunement (or perhaps 8 hours). That way you can attune the item, use it, and then remove it for something else later (like a permanent item). All of them? -I'm sure they'll deal with the typo'd one... I believe it was Skerrit who mentioned this. I took it to mean 'all' of them but it might have just been the broken one. Though since they also don't require attunement, they are indeed broken. It seems that many GMs failed to enforce the number of actions it requires to change slotted items: Move: remove used item Free/Move: drop/store used item Move: retrieve unused item Move: put on unused item ?Standard: activate unused item That's at least two full rounds of actions between activation of one item and the next (CR7 creature for 900gp or whatever is still gross but that aside..) Not necessarily... Round 1: Standard Action (Activate the item) Move Action (Remove the item) Free Action (Drop the item) Round 2: Move Action (Retrieve the item) Move Action (Put on the item) Round 3: Standard Action (Activate the Item) repeat You can basically have a summons/effect every other round. Harliquinn
JJeff 08-06-07, 10:38 PM	The anklet is used mostly to escape grapples or to actually reach low flying enemies. Still think it's rather powerful sicne the character is not locked down by his purchases...