Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grandmaster_Kane 10-01-07, 04:05 PM	Ok so we all now the damage a 12th level spell caused (cough karsus) So what kind of damage would a 20th level spell cause? I want you to create a spell that would blow the mind of anybody (even mystra herself). Here are the specifications you must meet. - Must fully map out your spell - Must have a full description of spell's effects - Must be exciting enough for a group of godly explorers to pursue Here is how powerful of a setting your working in. The standard demi god with a dvr 1 is level 105+. Ok kiddies have fun.....
BillTheManiac 10-01-07, 07:07 PM	Summon Mortiverse?
PrinceOfTheVoid 10-01-07, 07:18 PM	Damn you Bill! That's the first thing that popped into my mind when I read this! I was going to say that! :D
BillTheManiac 10-01-07, 07:39 PM	Damn you Bill! That's the first thing that popped into my mind when I read this! I was going to say that! :D Do summon Pun-Pun then! Oh wait, you can do that with a DC 48 or so epic spell (Sarrukh), which is NOTHING.
PrinceOfTheVoid 10-01-07, 08:09 PM	I doesn't end, does it? :) We really shouldn't derail this thread though. We already have 4 threads going to discuss that arguement. :D
Bauglir 10-01-07, 08:20 PM	Origin of Species: Symbiotic Mortiverse/Pun-Pun. Would that do it?
BillTheManiac 10-01-07, 08:45 PM	Origin of Species: Symbiotic Mortiverse/Pun-Pun. Would that do it? So, infinite IH DvR, infinite WoTC DvR, double-infinite all abilities, all abilities in the game, infinite actions upon infinite actions. That would be level 1000 at least.
Kyuketsukiouji 10-01-07, 08:53 PM	I win. Universal. Lvl: 20 Target: You. Duration: Instant. You win the current game. Go home. You're done.
Thegans 10-01-07, 09:47 PM	Speak With Lady Universal Level: Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Sigil Target: Self Duration: Four words. Saving Throw: None (harmless) Spell Resistance: No (harmless) By casting this spell you gain the ability to safely say up to four words to the entity known as the Lady of Pain. This spell does not compel the Lady of Pain to reply but allows you to termporarily interupt her with out getting flayed as long as you mention something that is no more then four words. If you have a divine rank you can not cast this spell. (Sorry I couldn't help it.)
Bauglir 10-01-07, 11:14 PM	So, infinite IH DvR, infinite WoTC DvR, double-infinite all abilities, all abilities in the game, infinite actions upon infinite actions. That would be level 1000 at least. Sure, if you controlled it. As is, it merely creates such a creature and then lets it do whatever it wants. And a level 1 character can do half of it by abusing Wish (a mere 9th level spell), admittedly with some other cheese, and then can achieve the other half using that first half. Also, remember that spell levels scale exponentially, not linearly, and that a 12th level spell is capable of evading notice by a goddess of magic (requiring a higher Divine Rank than Mystra in order to block her Portfolio Sense, since this DEFINITELY has to do with magic), killing said deity (ordinarily possible without a higher divine rank than the deity, in the case of Mystra, who I would assume had Rejuvenation), stealing her portfolio (not even mentioned in Deities and Demigods, as far as I can recall), and transferring them to a mortal in order to allow him to ascend to godhood (normally requiring the express permission of Ao, as I recall), and it was cast by a mere mortal (of exceeding magical potency, true, but a mortal nonetheless). All the infinities might well be within the reach of such an enormously powerful spell. We're talking stuff that all the deities, including Ao, put together couldn't cast if they used all their Divine Ranks as some sort of expended component.
BillTheManiac 10-02-07, 07:05 AM	Sure, if you controlled it. As is, it merely creates such a creature and then lets it do whatever it wants. And a level 1 character can do half of it by abusing Wish (a mere 9th level spell), admittedly with some other cheese, and then can achieve the other half using that first half. Also, remember that spell levels scale exponentially, not linearly, and that a 12th level spell is capable of evading notice by a goddess of magic (requiring a higher Divine Rank than Mystra in order to block her Portfolio Sense, since this DEFINITELY has to do with magic), killing said deity (ordinarily possible without a higher divine rank than the deity, in the case of Mystra, who I would assume had Rejuvenation), stealing her portfolio (not even mentioned in Deities and Demigods, as far as I can recall), and transferring them to a mortal in order to allow him to ascend to godhood (normally requiring the express permission of Ao, as I recall), and it was cast by a mere mortal (of exceeding magical potency, true, but a mortal nonetheless). All the infinities might well be within the reach of such an enormously powerful spell. We're talking stuff that all the deities, including Ao, put together couldn't cast if they used all their Divine Ranks as some sort of expended component. Steal everyone's divinity? Ao's first? As a swift action?
Alias 10-02-07, 11:51 AM	Cloud Castle Conjuration (Creation) [Ritual] Level: Clr 20, Drd 20, Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 day Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Cloud castle, 20,000 cu. ft./level (S) Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No By use of this spell, the caster creates a castle made from cloudstuff – white, fluffy material that is light as air, but solid as stone. The castle can be up to 20,000 cubic feet (20 10-ft. cubes) per caster level in size, and the interior layout is up to the caster. The cloud on which the castle rests is 20 feet thick and extends up to 30 feet past the castle walls, but does not count toward the total. The spell takes ambient moisture from the air to create walls of cloudstuff, which gains the hardness and hit points of stone, but retains the weight of clouds. When the spell is complete, the castle floats up to the sky on a cloud and remains there at around 5,000 feet, floating around according to the winds or the caster's will. If the caster wishes, it can be moved by the wind, though this requires a gale-force or greater wind - and even then it only moves at 5-10 mph – or it can be anchored in place, in which case nothing short of hurricane-force winds will move it. If the caster wishes to move it on his own, he can do so, though he must be somewhere on the island, actively concentrating on moving the castle; it moves at 5-10 mph. It can be hidden in a cloudbank or float free, but in either case, the cloud castle looks like a normal cloud from below – only someone flying by will see its true form. The castle can be brought down with siege weaponry or magic (provided it can reach that high), though the cloud upon which it floats cannot be destroyed unless the castle atop it is razed first. It can withstand normal storms and remain in place, but hurricane-force winds will blow it along (causing minor damage – 1d6 points per minute). The castle is completely immune to lightning. Damage to the castle magically repairs itself at the rate of 3 hit points per hour as the clouds absorb moisture from the air. Material Component: A miniature model (1:100 scale) of the castle crafted from the bones of cloud giants.
Grandmaster_Kane 10-02-07, 04:50 PM	Alias has the right format that is what i want people
Kyuketsukiouji 10-02-07, 07:35 PM	You're being ridiculous. A level 12 spell was enough to make a mortal man into a god. Yes, it killed him, but that's because he tried stealing the power of the second most powerful entity in all of Realmspace after Ao. 8 levels higher than that is insane power levels. That Cloud Castle spell isn't level 20. It's somewhere around level 10-11, being just an oversized, limited form, permanent Polymorph Any Object.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-02-07, 08:32 PM	You're being ridiculous. A level 12 spell was enough to make a mortal man into a god. Yes, it killed him, but that's because he tried stealing the power of the second most powerful entity in all of Realmspace after Ao. 8 levels higher than that is insane power levels. Well, try not to use logic. By actual logic, I doubt the I Win spell would be any higher than 16th level or so.
Tequila_Sunrise 10-03-07, 12:19 AM	Campaign Phoenix Level: 20 Components: S, M Target: Unique (see text) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No By means of this spell, you instantaneously and irrevocably end the campaign which, in all likelihood, should have ended far before the DM even considered allowing or creating this spell. This spell empowers each member of said campaign to vote for who the next DM will be. This decision is final, and cannot be undone short of this spell being cast again. Components: Every DM note, map, stat block, list and PC character sheet must be destroyed in the most dramatic fashion possible.
Alias 10-03-07, 11:22 AM	You're being ridiculous. A level 12 spell was enough to make a mortal man into a god. Yes, it killed him, but that's because he tried stealing the power of the second most powerful entity in all of Realmspace after Ao. 8 levels higher than that is insane power levels. Yes, that was back in the days of 2E, before we had epic spells. Nowadays that would be somewhere around L30, depending how many divine ranks he gets. That Cloud Castle spell isn't level 20. It's somewhere around level 10-11, being just an oversized, limited form, permanent Polymorph Any Object. Actually... here's the process I used: Magnificent mansion as a base spell (L7), widen x2.5 (+5), change to material (+2), permanent (+6) = L20.
BillTheManiac 10-04-07, 07:43 AM	Yes, that was back in the days of 2E, before we had epic spells. Nowadays that would be somewhere around L30, depending how many divine ranks he gets. 9th. Eschew Materials+Ice Assassin.
The_Cheeseman 10-04-07, 10:15 AM	We did have epic spells in AD&D, they were called True Dweomers, and the process for creating them was even more open-ended than Epic Spellcasting. In fact, if you take a gander at the Dungeon Master Option: High-Level Campaigns book for AD&D 2nd Ed., the True Dweomers section is almost exactly like the epic spell section of the D&D 3.0 ELH. The cloud castle spell wouldn't be any higher than 10th-level. 11th-level spells can permanently alter the climate of huge sections of the world and seal off entire crystal spheres from spelljammer travel. I really don't see how you can get a spell more powerful than Karsus' avatar without metagaming. I mean, how does a D&D character top the achievement of greater deity status? What can you do that's better than that?
Gemstone 10-04-07, 10:20 AM	Ragnarök Conjuration/Evocation Level: Clr 20, Sor/Wiz 21 Casting Time: 1 Month Target: The Sphere Area: 50 000 ft. radius Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell rips the very fabric of reality appart. You temporarily upsurp the DvR of the deities above you, in order to recreate the world... When you cast this spell, you destroy the world, or rather, parts of it. The area you designate, is ripped from the sphere and sent through the astral plane into another world which is spawned from the power of this spell. Everything outside the area (on the same planet) takes 200d6 points of force damage (Fortitude Save for Half) and must succced with a Fortitude save at a -10 penalty or die instantly. Even gods are subjects to this affect, regardless of any immunities. You are transported togheter with those inside the area, unharmed and unaffected, into the new world and immidiatly gains DvR 0, +1 point per god you slay with this spell. You can't gain more than 20 DvR from this spell. Gods that are inside the area, is transported to the new world, but as long as they are there, they take a -4 penalty to their DvR as long as they don't planeshift away from that plane. To do this, they must succed with a rank check against you (which you can fail if you so wish). This spell is cast directly from the very source of divinity, and no god can interupt the casting through the use of any SDA's (they can interupt it by other means though, such as damage, other spells etc.). The new world created by this spell can be generaly decided by you. You can chose traits and alignments for the plane as you see fit, as well as the general terrain. You can't change the passage of time.
Alias 10-04-07, 11:49 AM	We did have epic spells in AD&D, they were called True Dweomers, and the process for creating them was even more open-ended than Epic Spellcasting. In fact, if you take a gander at the Dungeon Master Option: High-Level Campaigns book for AD&D 2nd Ed., the True Dweomers section is almost exactly like the epic spell section of the D&D 3.0 ELH. I know.... they adapted the epic spell system from that one. The cloud castle spell wouldn't be any higher than 10th-level. 11th-level spells can permanently alter the climate of huge sections of the world and seal off entire crystal spheres from spelljammer travel. Pfft. Those rules went out the window with the advent of a) the epic spellcasting system, and b) the metamagic rules. You just can't say that ALL epic spells, no matter their scale or power level, are magically the same level - it defies logic, and is one of the reasons the epic spell system simply doesn't work. You want a 20th level spell? How about a maximized, empowered, energy admixed meteor swarm. Sure, it's technically still a 9th level spell, but it takes up a 20th level slot. Guess it's more powerful than Karsus' avatar. :rolleyes:
Gemstone 10-04-07, 12:13 PM	Pfft. Those rules went out the window with the advent of a) the epic spellcasting system, and b) the metamagic rules. You just can't say that ALL epic spells, no matter their scale or power level, are magically the same level - it defies logic, and is one of the reasons the epic spell system simply doesn't work. You want a 20th level spell? How about a maximized, empowered, energy admixed meteor swarm. Sure, it's technically still a 9th level spell, but it takes up a 20th level slot. Guess it's more powerful than Karsus' avatar. :rolleyes: The problem there is two-fold: 1) the epic level spellcasting didn't exist when Karsus avatar was dubbed a 12th level spell. So basicly, 20th level spells are just improved 9th level spells. 2) The base power of 20th level spells would be much greater than that of a metamagiced 9th level spell. Epic spells are also outside of the spell level system :) They're basicly based upon your Caster Level and your Spellcraft modifier
Amon_WinterfallIV 10-04-07, 10:32 PM	Well, I'm unsure about the power of 20th level spell. I'll stick to my own definitions of Epic Level and have it castable at 61st level. Here we Go: Hyperblast Sor/Wiz 20, Destruction 20 Evocation Components: S, M Casting Time: 1 standard Action Target: 5 ft square Range: Medium SR: Yes Saving Throw: Reflex Half Hyperblast is generally viewed as a superior spell to the alleged 'vengeful gaze of the gods'. That said, only a greater deity at a minimum could ever hope to cast it, unless said deity controlled the Magic Domain. An Unbelievable torrent of magical energy fills a 5 ft cube, overwhelming anything with a massive wave of damage. Such power will destroy any object in the cube utterly if it doesn't have half as many HP as the damage dealt. Hyperblast deals 6d6 damage per caster level, up to a maximum of 480d6 damage; and the damage may be fire, cold, electrical, acid, or force damage. That spell should be fair, I'd think...
Alias 10-05-07, 11:30 AM	The problem there is two-fold: 1) the epic level spellcasting didn't exist when Karsus avatar was dubbed a 12th level spell. So basicly, 20th level spells are just improved 9th level spells. I'm not quite following here. Are you saying that 20th level spells are just greater versions of 9th level spells? Like, say, greater wish would be a 12th level spell? 2) The base power of 20th level spells would be much greater than that of a metamagiced 9th level spell. Probably. I was being slightly sarcastic. Epic spells are also outside of the spell level system They're basicly based upon your Caster Level and your Spellcraft modifier Once you hit 17th level, it's all about the Spellcraft. But if epic spells exist "outside the system", why are they there at all? They're supposedly THE top spells anyone can cast now - most of the 10th-12th level spells from previous editions, like Tolodine's killing wind and Proctiv's move mountain, were converted to the epic system.
IceFractal 10-05-07, 02:30 PM	Ok so we all now the damage a 12th level spell caused (cough karsus) So what kind of damage would a 20th level spell cause?Just to point out, arguing over the semantics of what a 20th level spell represents (linear or exponential power scale) is somewhat pointless for this particular thread, as it was clearly specified in the OP. Of course, by that logic, it would be pretty nearly impossible to make anything past 15th-16th level, even stuff like Ragnarok. So, going by a linear power scale, and presuming that 20th level spells would require at least CL 40, you could get this kind of effect: Pit of the Abyss Twinned Maximized Repeated Violated Maw of Chaos (20th level): 960 damage/round, 20' radius, for 39 rounds, and it can daze people. Oh, and half the damage is Vile, so special steps are needed to cure it. The problem is that a linear power scale like this is hard to judge for anything except for normal damaging spells. For instance, dealing twice as much damage is probably worth +4 levels. But is Fabricating twice as much material? Probably not.
Gemstone 10-05-07, 03:10 PM	I'm not quite following here. Are you saying that 20th level spells are just greater versions of 9th level spells? Like, say, greater wish would be a 12th level spell? I wasn't really clear :) What I meant was that in the current system, 20th level spells are just enhanced 9th level or lower spells :)
IceFractal 10-05-07, 03:12 PM	As I mentioned, it's hard to even guess the power of non-damaging spells. But I'll give it a try anyway. Not going to try and guess the level though - I think it's somewhere between 11th and 20th, depending on what scale you use. Crown of Proteus Sor/Wiz ? Transmutation Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 round Target: 30' radius, centered on caster. Range: Personal Duration: 1 round/level SR: Yes, see description. Saving Throw: Fortitude negates, see description. This spell grants you utter mastery over form, allowing you to massively, and in some cases permanently, restructure any object or creature in the area to your desires. Each round, you can affect as many unattended objects and willing creatures as you like, and up to twice your hit-dice in unwilling creatures or their attended objects. The transmutations can be anything possible with Polymorph any Object (HD cap raised to 25). On willing creatures, it can be anything possible with Shapechange. Note that this spell can continuously affect the entire ground area within 30', and can specifically emulate Transmute Rock to Lava, as well as anything Polymorph any Object is capable of emulating. Focus: A crown made from four disparate elements (such as fire, water, earth, and air), fused together with Transmutation magic.
The_Cheeseman 10-05-07, 11:19 PM	Okay, I'll give it a try... ALTERNATE REALITY Universal Arcane 20, Divine 20 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 year Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No By means of this spell, the caster creates an entirely new multiverse of his own design, and then shifts his being into it. The new universe can be anything the caster imagines, though most casters choose aspects that mirror their original reality in most ways. The caster determines the laws of physics and magic in the new universe, and designs all of the the deities, planes, creatures, and worlds to his liking. After designing their new reality, the caster leaves his original one and enters the realm of his creation. The caster may take any form he wishes in his realm, an overdiety, a mortal, or even an infinite, primal force of nature itself. No other aspects of the caster's original reality are affected by this spell. No other creatures or objects may be brought with the caster into his new realm (though he could easily recreate any object or entity he desires) and this spell does not grant the caster any special power to affect his original reality in any way (nor any means to return to it).
Ryusage 10-06-07, 07:56 AM	Power Word Slaughter Sorcerer/Wizard 20 Components: V Casting Time: Immediate Action Range: Sight Target: 200 Creatures/caster level Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You utter a single word of incredible arcane might, and your enemies drop all around you. You immediately slay up to 200 creatures per caster level within sight and line of effect, as long as they have less than 10 000hp.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-06-07, 08:58 AM	Pun Shape Transmutation Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Permanent This spell functions like Polymorph, except you turn into Pun-Pun. You are treated as having the same HD as your previous form, but that won't matter soon. You lose your own supernatural abilities, but gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities. Your stats become infinite. Your equipment retains its normal form, but what good is it now? Focus: A copy of the vile tome of Serpent Kingdoms.
BillTheManiac 10-06-07, 10:19 AM	Considering you can do that with shapechange and a few rounds, I think it's hardly worthy of a 20th level spell.
Tshern 10-06-07, 10:21 AM	When I first saw Speak with Lady I thought it would enable the caster to understand women for a while. Obviously that would be overpowered...
Ra-Tiel 10-06-07, 04:56 PM	Considering how possible damage scales exponentially from level 1 to 9, continuing that up to level 20 would probably give something like this. I put an image instead of a spell description, as the saying goes "one picture says more than a thousand words". :P FINIS Transmutation Level: Sorcerer/wizard 20 Components: V, S, M Casting time: 24 hours Range: 1AU/level Area: 1AU-radius emanation Duration: 1 year/level Saving throw: None Spell resistance: None http://imageupload.com/out.php/i31150_131BlackHole.jpg
Sagetim 10-08-07, 01:22 AM	level: sor/wiz 20 duration: 1 round per caster level. effect: one touch attack per round components:v,s cast time: part of an attack action range:touch/infinite save: none sr: you kidding? no. name of spell: Sage's Pimp Slap of the Ages this spell causes the caster to instantly teleport without error to any being on any multiverse that they so choose. They can even teleport to places that don't allow planar travel or porting, and out of said places. When they teleport, they then gain the choice to instantly ***** slap the person they have teleported to. The target is then stunned and held for the duration of the spell, in total shock of what just happened. For the duration of the spell your outfit changes appearance to a purple jumpsuit, a furry cape, and a purple hat with a giant green feather. you also gain 'bling'. each round you may choose a new target to slap, teleporting to them as part of the attack. no being slapped by this may seek reprisal for what you have done to them, and you don't have to slap them in the face.
Grandmaster_Kane 10-08-07, 04:16 PM	oct 15 the contest will be closed and the winner decided so hurry
Andorxor 10-08-07, 04:46 PM	Awaken All Transmutation Level: sor/wiz/bar 20 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 hour Range: --- Targets: The plane the caster is on Duration: instantuous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No The plane gains the Sentient trait and causes the following additional effects: - Every animal and plant is awakened as if the spell Awaken is cast on them - Every Undead is awakened as if the spelll Awaken undead is cast on them - Every Construct is awakened as if the spell awaken construct is cast on them - Every object is awakened as if animated object and than Awaken Construct is cast on them
Prince_of_Parkness 10-09-07, 05:57 PM	Random ideas: Enchanters Endgame: The Final Gate Level: sor/wiz/20 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 std action Range: 2ft/level Targets: Any 1 creature that doent have any devine ranks Duration: instantuous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No A gargantuan gate, sixty ft high appears out of no where. It is made from admanitium and studded with countless perfect diamonds. Cared into the center, in celectrial and infernal, the grooves filled with rubies and emeralds are the world, "The end." This huge gate creaks open, and two lives are lost forever. U pon casting this spell, the caster and the target are sucked through the final gate, dying instantly. They cannot be raised or ressurected. Divine creatures are unaffected by this spell, but they will sacrifice themselves by casting it. If cast on an inaprorpiate target, the caster and the enarest appropriate target is taken instead. Once this incarnation is uttered, no force on the Celestrial Plane or Ba'ator can return the catser or target. Enchanters Endgame: Flood the Horizon with Flame Level: sor/wiz/fire 20 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 std action Range: 40ft/level by 100ft, starting at caster Targets: Any creatures in area Duration: instantuous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A tidal wafe that dwarfs all in its path. If not in size then in might. The churning wash of deadly hellfire destroys everything but the most magically protected object in its path. When cast, a raging wall of flames 100ft long and 100ft tall surges infront of you, traveling 40ft/caster level. This spell deals 40 points of hellfire damage per caster with no level cap. Creatures and objects in the way are typically obliterated. P.S. Sorry for not stating the spells properly. I understand this makes them invalid candidates. I dont really play at epic level so I dont know how to make them properly, but I had these random ideas when reading this thread ands i had to post them.
Karsus the Mad 10-12-07, 12:47 PM	Trans-Cosmological Digestive Renewal Conjuration (Destruction) (Creation) Level: Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 life time Range: See Text Effect: See Text Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No By use of this spell, the caster causes the very essence of all realities, times, and perceptions to merge and condense into a single infinite point of potential. Existence is restarted from the beginning. Material Component: Existence
Zebppir 10-13-07, 02:13 PM	Kill DM necromancy (Destruction) (vile) Level: Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 year Range:one campaign Effect: Kills DM Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No DM:you are surrounded by all the gods from all settings what do you do? Wizard:I successfully cast Kill Dm Dm:NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*the sound of a heavy object hits the ground* Player:yay I win!!!
awaken_D_M_golem 10-13-07, 02:34 PM	I'm suffering from a moment of rationality. Epic spells are ~10 level spells, under some circumstances. And a DC increase of 20 is about equal to 10 levels worth of Heighten. And a DC increase of 20 is about equal to Free Action conversion of an Immediate Action spell. So a ~10th level Wish, cast with a Free Action, with perhaps a minor upgrade, would take a 20th level slot. But it wouldn't be a 20th level spell. Material Components might scale, too. Artifacts can be sacrificed as an M, in a spell. Karsus did/didn't know he'd be sacrificing himself as an M, for his 12th level spell. Greater Artifacts should be ~worth a spell level. DvR 0 could be an M. 1 rank of anything above DvR 0, could be an M. * Technically, you could claim that granting Proxy Status is in and of itself a Spell of some level, and clearly has the M of 1 DvRank; it's just transferred with a range of X, and (D)-able at any distance. So, what are 10 DvRs worth as an M component?
BillTheManiac 10-13-07, 08:21 PM	I'm suffering from a moment of rationality. Epic spells are ~10 level spells, under some circumstances. And a DC increase of 20 is about equal to 10 levels worth of Heighten. And a DC increase of 20 is about equal to Free Action conversion of an Immediate Action spell. So a ~10th level Wish, cast with a Free Action, with perhaps a minor upgrade, would take a 20th level slot. But it wouldn't be a 20th level spell. Material Components might scale, too. Artifacts can be sacrificed as an M, in a spell. Karsus did/didn't know he'd be sacrificing himself as an M, for his 12th level spell. Greater Artifacts should be ~worth a spell level. DvR 0 could be an M. 1 rank of anything above DvR 0, could be an M. * Technically, you could claim that granting Proxy Status is in and of itself a Spell of some level, and clearly has the M of 1 DvRank; it's just transferred with a range of X, and (D)-able at any distance. So, what are 10 DvRs worth as an M component? Karsus's avatar and modern epic magic work on completely different balance scales. So there's really no way to compare them 10 DvRs is going to be worth "destroy all enemies you've ever had and ever wil have, and feed all their souls to a barghest, and feed the barghest to a [black hole artifact thingy] in Demogorgon's stomach, just to be safe. Oh, and imprison Demogorgon in the Wells of Darkness. Seriously. DvR 0 is like 6 ECL, each DvR is 2 more, minimum. You would need to game for a year, minimum, to gain that back.
vindictous 10-15-07, 10:35 AM	Besides karsus' spell effectedly ending up being a planetary wide a antimagic field for a minute or two combined with a flesh to stone on himself... Lesson to all don't cast spells at the dieties of magic. Ever.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-15-07, 04:50 PM	The realm of Xiuhtecuhtli of the Aztec pantheon is not shown, lying near the Pyriphlegethon off the left-hand edge of the map. In fact, Xiuh's place is dangerously near the twelfth ring, but the Old God must know his own business. He defends the people in the times between the centuries (actually 52 years each) when the gods can bob humanity and go back on their deals. This from a D&D 2nd Edition source. But, Grand History of The Realms, uses all editions as it's sources. So I'd say it is kosher enough. Somehow "Chewy" (Xiuh-) is able to safely tap into the 12th ring, or resist it. He has the Time portfolio. He must know something tricky. Taken at face value, if Chewy can "defend the people" every 52 years, against "the gods", then ... that gets a WOW from me. That's pretty good stuff. Chewy vs. All D&D gods that are willing to cross into Aztec Realms and areas of influence. Lets say for simplicities sake, that what Chewy does is an 11th level spell. So prehaps: Once every 26 years, is a 12th level spell. Once every 13 years, is a 13th level spell. Once every ~6 years, is a 14th level spell. Once every ~3 years, is a 15th level spell. Once every ~1 year, is a 16th level spell. Once every 6 months, is a 17th level spell. Once every 1 month, is an 18th level spell. Once every 1 week, is a 19th level spell. Once every 1 day, is a 20th level spell. ... another time table would be ... Once every 10 years = 13th Once every 1 year = 14th Once every 1 month = 15th Once every 1 day = 16th 1/hour = 17th 1/minute = 18th 1/round = 19th At will = 20th You'll note that while AO is an overdeity, he doesn't really get involved. A 20th level spell, on this scale, would let opposing the gods, be normal.
Amon_V 10-15-07, 07:54 PM	Look, Canonically, what Karsus' cast was far more than any 12th level spell--it was a 'Hyperspell' designed to explain why 10+ level magic doesn't exist, not a hard, mechanical "if you get to this level you can cast it too". Mechanically, I think Karsus' Ascendancy would only elevate him to DR 0, and this would be a temporary buff--and its a 12th level spell. That's still amazing, but mechanically, its fair (if not weak) Perhaps a 15th level spell could allow a DR 1 buff.
ArochanoX 10-16-07, 11:23 AM	Magnificence of Marduk necromancy (Destruction) (vile) Level: Sor/Wiz 20 Components: V, S, M, XP Casting Time: 1 week Range: personal Effect: Gain overgodly abilities Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No You gain Aura of Marduk, Touch of Marduk, Sight of Marduk and Power of Marduk. Each of the powers are supernatural abilities that cannot be supressed by normal spells (levels 1-9). Only epic dispel and epic antimagic effect suppresses one of them, if specifically targeted, for 1d4 rounds. And even then the caster must make a caster level check against DC 200 or lose all spellcasting and manifesting abilities he had for 2d4 days. Aura of Marduk You're surrounded by blackish smoke and brimstone you can see right through, but others cannot. You also gain enhanced deflection abilities. Aura is a 300 ft emanation centered on you. It hampers vision and gives everyone in it total concealment - though you can see right through it. Every creature that would enter the aura, must make a will save (DC 200) or flee in terror and take 3d6 wisdom drain. Even if the save succeeds, the creature takes 2d6 wisdom damage and recieves a cumulative -10 penalty to all d20 rolls and AC every round the creature is in the aura. The aura causes 10d6 fire damage and 5d6 vile damage every round to everything within the area (except you). You gain +1000 deflection bonus to AC against all attacks that come outside the aura. You gain +100 deflection bonus to AC against all attacks that come inside the aura. Touch of Marduk For every creature you kill, you gain 1 soul point for point of CR the creature had. When you have 100 soul points, you gain DvR 0, for every 100 soul points thereafter you gain addintional DvR (including salient divine abilities and +2 divine bonus on all abilities). You can expend 5 soul points to ignore all non-divine damage for one round. You can expend 5 soul points to cast any non-epic spell you know. You can expend soul points at every condition, even if you were dead. With a touch attack and expending 5 soul points, you can drain one divine rank from a god. The touched god loses one rank unless it succeeds a save DC 200 + your DvR + your charisma modifier. You gain the divine rank the god lost. Sight of Marduk You sense everything and a bit more. You know everything as if you had blindsight with range of plane. You can also sense everything within the coexsistent planes as if you had blindsight. Nothing can hamper your vision. You also sense every magical oddity and effect in place including hidden demiplanes, anti-magic fields and creatures with divine ranks. Power of Marduk You're immune to magic. All your ability scores are increased by 100. You have DR 100 / -. You gain +100 insight bonus on all saves, skill checks and attack rolls. Your maximum hit point cap is increased by 1000.
Sagetim 10-16-07, 05:52 PM	I know it's late, but I figured I would mention this: Karsus's spell didn't have the material component of his body. If he had cast it on the deity of war, or maybe the sun, he would have been more or less fine. But he cast it on the god of magic, and that was stupid. He tried to take on management of the weave itself, which is something he couldn't handle. The deity of magic is arguably the strongest one around, since they can cut off the magic of any other god. In any case, Karsus's screw up was because he chose to target the wrong deity, not because his spell was flawed. In fact, his spell was asskicking. a 12th level spell can rip the power out of a deity with no saving throw, no spell resistance, and an automatic transfer of power to the mortal casting the spell. Hmmm...I think that's a pretty damn good spell. Of course, the DM running that game probably laughed his ass off when the player for karsus said 'I target the god of magic'. Then the DM proceeded to royally screw the players. also: the magnificence of marduk spell would royally screw over any mortal trying to cast it, because they would suddenly be flooded with images of everything on the plane, and their head would explode. Or they would go insane.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-16-07, 07:11 PM	hmm ... High level Character + ~12th level spell is less than God of Magic + The Weave. In floaty post-modern logic, we may have an equation. Maybe the Weave is a Persistant 11th level spell and very temporarily dispel-able, under very restricted circumstances. Lets suppose Karsus cast a 12th level Dispel. The God of Magic (?) dying was merely a temporary side effect, and not critical. A 12th level spell could kill a God, but only if it was designed to do so; and this one wasn't. 12th level Dispel + Permanency as a Metamagic. Would kill the weave. Might kill the caster. I'm guessing ... Kill the Weave and I Don't Die = 15th level spell. Dieties would be really torqued off. @ ArochanoX - Marduk has been statted all the way back to 1st Edition. He probably can't do your spells.
Sagetim 10-16-07, 10:44 PM	hmm ... High level Character + ~12th level spell is less than God of Magic + The Weave. In floaty post-modern logic, we may have an equation. Maybe the Weave is a Persistant 11th level spell and very temporarily dispel-able, under very restricted circumstances. Lets suppose Karsus cast a 12th level Dispel. The God of Magic (?) dying was merely a temporary side effect, and not critical. A 12th level spell could kill a God, but only if it was designed to do so; and this one wasn't. 12th level Dispel + Permanency as a Metamagic. Would kill the weave. Might kill the caster. I'm guessing ... Kill the Weave and I Don't Die = 15th level spell. Dieties would be really torqued off. @ ArochanoX - Marduk has been statted all the way back to 1st Edition. He probably can't do your spells. more like karsus's spell didn't dispel the weave, but sucked the divine ranks out of the diety of magic (mystyrul? it was male..) and gave them to karsus. Karsus, now taking on the obscenely strenous mental strain which he was completely unprepared for, his mind shatters. Since he is technically now the god of magic, when he turns to stone and falls to his death, magic dies with him...at least for a while.
ArochanoX 10-17-07, 12:02 AM	@ ArochanoX - Marduk has been statted all the way back to 1st Edition. cool the magnificence of marduk spell would royally screw over any mortal trying to cast it, because they would suddenly be flooded with images of everything on the plane, and their head would explode. Or they would go insane. I think that any mortal that is able to cast the spell could handle it. Atleast with Intelligence and Wisdom being well over 100.
Tequila_Sunrise 10-17-07, 12:32 AM	Hey, where's Kain? I want to know who's bringing home the gold! ...Actually, I'd much rather know what the point of this mental excersize is. Is Kain actually trying to come up with playable 20th level spells? Is this a kind of poll about 'how much should epic casters pwn?' Or is Kain just having a good laugh at us? ;)
Sagetim 10-17-07, 03:33 PM	Hey, where's Kain? I want to know who's bringing home the gold! ...Actually, I'd much rather know what the point of this mental excersize is. Is Kain actually trying to come up with playable 20th level spells? Is this a kind of poll about 'how much should epic casters pwn?' Or is Kain just having a good laugh at us? ;) well, considering the 'contest' was supposed to end a while ago, I'm going to assume that kain forgot about the thread.
Tequila_Sunrise 10-17-07, 04:09 PM	Good point. In that case, I declare myself the winner! ...Just because I didn't participate in the Karsus argument, so I want to make up for lost waste.
leathersmith88 10-17-07, 04:18 PM	The spell of random pregnancies. Cast on a female or character who's gender was changed by a spell or curse into a female becomes instantly pregnant with a random... creature. To determine what the baby will be roll on the reincarnation table.To make the spell more affective the go instantly into labor. Bam one opponent is basically incapacitated for 10-20 hours or more. Me and my friends invented this spell after mishearing what the DM said.
zzo38computer 10-20-07, 01:48 AM	Maybe Remove Reality or something similar. Or change the laws of physics permanently for the entire multiverse. Maybe a spell that can destroy an entire plane (even the material plane). When the spell is cast enough times, you can destroy all of the planes.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-20-07, 04:14 PM	A rather boring lower boundary for a 20th level spell would be: Summon Monster XX
BillTheManiac 10-21-07, 12:48 PM	Wish 20th As wish, except +11 to all the spell levels you can replicate. You can undo the last minute of actions. You can alter a watershed event within the past 1 year/level with the effect of a 9th or lower level spell. You can wish any artifact into existence, or grant a +1 epic inherent bonus to someone who already has a +5 inherent bonus (the maximum epic inherent bonus is 5). You can completely recreate a character, even one that had been destroyed by the worst of magic. You can automatically gain the highest office in the land of an area 10 square miles/level or less, as long as all individuals with 21 or more HD allied with the current ruler fail their Will saves. You can do anything else along these lines, as well. XP cost: 50,000 XP.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-25-07, 08:42 PM	Energy Weather - 20th level Psionic Power. Does 41d6 damage per round for each round after 10 minutes. Augmentable at +1pp per +1d6 damage. EDIT: and +1 to SR. Lasts 20 hours. Select Energy as in Energy Bolt, but may also include Acid, Force, some stuff unknown to the plebes ... Radius 2 miles. See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/energy.htm. EDIT: While this allow for a Reflex save, unless said Reflex save would allow the defender to somehow "tumble" or Immediate action Dimension Door outside the 2 mile radius, they would still get hit. Clearly, this pierces Improved Evasion also. Another defensive possibility would be to "reflex" to a sheltering building closed off from the sky.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-28-07, 03:31 PM	True (-est) Strike , 20th level Divination , Arcane Only Target gets +20 on next attack. Range Long. Cast as a Free Action. Used as a Free Action, but is "countable" in the sense of Deific free actions being limited to DvR. Caster generates CL number of True (-est) Strikes per round. Casters without DvR minimum of 0 (zero) , generate one per round. Spell lasts CL number of rounds. Any one other than the Caster, does not generate a Magic based glamer or aura. While the spell itself is Dispelable, each individual True (-est) Strike is not. Example: Overdeity Billy "tags" a Slaad with a True (-est) Strike 6 times in one round. An Epic Dispel targets the Slaad, but not Overdeity Billy. The Slaad has no idea why it was so easy to hit that Will-O-wisp, but it makes a good tasting sauce on Fire Mephit Toast (i.e. the Epic Dispel targetted the wrong target). The Slaad dimension door's away with dinner; maybe he "swayed" the battle.
Sagetim 10-29-07, 02:09 AM	summon monster 20 eh? make a list...like...all the deities of that particular setting would be viable targets to summon with it. Or 1d4+1 Demon princes or Devil um...guys. whatever they're called. Archfiends? yeah...Just keep in mind that if you cast the spell, you'll probably be ******* off something that can eat you/kill you once the spell ends.
awaken_D_M_golem 10-29-07, 07:43 PM	from http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14197086&postcount=14 Forgotten Realms *He tried to steal the power from the goddess of magic by making himself one of her avatars. He did so to save his country against a threat of the phaerimm (epic spellcasting worms) *The Spell Worked, he succeeded *Problem is the Goddess of Magic in FR repairs the "weave" if the weave isn't repaired the weave can become too chaotic due to destabalization and there goes the realms *Karsus could control the powers of being the new god of magic (which he was wrestling control over/stealing from Mystryl) but he wasn't experienced enough to repair the weave continously. *Mystryl did a last ditch effort to save the weave. She sacrificied herself killing herself and cutting everyone off from the weave and thus all arcane magic, till she reincarnated. *Mystryl reborn as Mystra (not the current mystra but her predessor) reworked the weave and did stricter requirements of what you could and couldn't do so this won't happen again. No more 10 lvl plus spells, epic spellsystem is what replaced it, though in theory its power can rival them but they aren't in as easy to use form. *Karsus was petrified by Mystryl cutting herself off from the weave. It isn't clear if he survived as a transcedent "spirit like form" for he was techincally divine when he was petrified. mmm ... that's the best description of Karsus, yet.
Sagetim 10-29-07, 11:46 PM	from http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14197086&postcount=14 mmm ... that's the best description of Karsus, yet. Actually, he did survive. According to the Tome of Magic, Karsus is a vestige.
BillTheManiac 10-30-07, 07:41 AM	Actually, he did survive. According to the Tome of Magic, Karsus is a vestige. If a vestige is survival. His soul is trapped outside the multiverse and he continually sacrifices his power to get a taste of the real world by possessing binders.
Karsus the Mad 10-30-07, 10:57 AM	Actually, he did survive. According to the Tome of Magic, Karsus is a vestige. Depends on whether a non-FR source is valid in FR (which it's not until an FR source states such). In FR, Karsus's soul was sundered into three aspects. Karsus is neither alive nor dead. He's "stuck", reliving the very moment of his folly. 1/3 of his soul is in the red butte of his "divinely engourged body" in the Dire Wood of the High Forest, 1/3 is in the stone golem that guards the temple on top of that red butte, and 1/3 is in his heart, known as the Karsestone, which is in the possession of Shar. His divine essence (completely different thing from a soul) is on the Astral plane, taking the form a ghostly apparition. However, Karsus was not originally an FR npc. He originally came from an old Dragonquest module, The Dire Wood. He was later ported over to FR to explain why it uses the standard DnD magic system. That said, there's no reason to assume that the generic DnD view on Karsus holds sway in FR. In FR, Karsus is not a Vestige until an FR source states such. There is, again, a class chronicles article that talks about Incarnum being a primitive form of "Heavy Magic", and that Karsus was the foremost expert on the subject (Incarnum in FR article).
awaken_D_M_golem 11-06-07, 05:23 PM	Switch Proxy-hood Cleric only Transformation. Immediate action. Instantaineous. Self only. Dismissible. Duration One Hour per CL. Having DvR 1, by whatever means, the conditions of that 1 DvR can be reassigned. If the recipient has a DvR of more than 1, it's total DvR is reduced by one, and immediately increased by one, but with the new DvR of 1, counting as the first DvR, overlapping with whatever else DvR the recipient has. A DvR of 8, is still 8, but it's 7 for everything it was, and 1 for the new thing. A DM should interpret this in any way he/she so chooses. This allows the recipient to pick, from whatever power it was/is this particular DvR is taken from, a minimum of 3 Domains, and one qualified for SDA. Other details of having a DvR of 1, are also reassigned as per the standard Divine rules. The recipient is unable to wield any weapon other than the Deity's favored weapon during this time; this weapon appears out of no where, just like a leShay's weapon, and is treated as having a Greater Magic Weapon spell cast on it for the length of the spell. In essence, the spell caster forces some being or power, to treat the caster as one of it's proxies, only because it has a DvR by some other means. Said being or power might be a little cranky about the situation, and may come to investigate. Not that it could do anything about it. This borrowed/transformed DvR is not treated as impinging on the function of the Deity's portfolio in any way. The recipient's use of the DvR is considered to have been etched into the Tree of Time from before the advent of Eternity. The deity may be a little non-plussed by this part of the situation.
Gemcaster 11-07-07, 04:42 AM	Genocide Necromancy (evil) Level: evil 20, sor/wiz 20 Components: V, S, M, F/DF Casting Time: 1 std action Range: touch (see text) Targets: 1 (see text) Duration: instantanious Saving Throw: will, fort, ref Spell Resistance: yes The creature you touch must make a fortitude, reflex and will save, if the creature fails any of these it instantly dies, the creatures dead body then becomes a catalyst for a virrilant plague which instantly spreads through all the planes seeking out other members of the creatures race, the instant the creature dies all every member of its species (including sub species and half breeds dm's discression) must make a fortitude save (same dc as the original) or die, any that survive are driven insane (as per the insanity spell) and can only be cured by a greater restoration spell cast by a creature with a higher caster level than the caster of genocide.