A little confused on Epic Seed usage [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little confused on Epic Seed usage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jere_RB
03-11-07, 01:12 PM Took me a while, but I mostly digested the contents of the
Epic Level handbook. Epic spells, epic spell slots, increased synergy bonuses, all that's fine. However, I am a little confused by epic seeds, in particular in how to use them. I gather that you have to pass a spellcraft check each time they are employed, but I do not know if they use a regular spell level slot or an epic level slot. I also am a little confused in how they are come across. Do you adventure to find epic seeds? Do you start the game knowing certain seeds? Do epic characters know all the seeds in the ELH, or, again, are they learned through adventuring?

Any help would be appreciated.
NoldorForce
03-11-07, 02:14 PM The term 'seed' refers to the fact that it's a metaphorical building block for an epic spell. As such, they're entirely abstract, unless you want to talk about the spell's precise workings with your spellcasting friends.

Basically, you choose a seed that approximates what you want to do. If you're trying to do multiple things, then use multiple seeds. Those seeds only give their base effects if you don't increase the spellcraft DC, so you'll have to augment them in a sense to pull off bigger effects. To actually cast an epic spell, you have to have epic spell slots (granted by the Epic Spellcasting feat) available. You have to prepare or not as normal; thus the sorcerer is the only core class that gets to use them spontaneously.

Speaking of augmentation, it seems that perhaps a power-point-based system might be appropriate as well for epic spellcasting/psionics.
Jere_RB
03-11-07, 03:02 PM Ah. So seeds aren't actually *supposed* to be cast. They're only there to give starting points on making epic spells.

So, it goes like this:

You decide on an effect. You reference a epic seed or seeds, combine the total DC of those seeds, and add/subtract mitigating factors from there. Ah, eureka, yes.

Ty.
rob_douglas
03-14-07, 11:49 AM You've got it. Now reread the Epic spells and see how the seeds are employed there. Note that there are many errors in the ELH. You should at least get the errata. There they fixed most of the math errors (a lot to do with the Permanency feature).

Also note that in order to cast an epic spell, you first have to research that epic spell, which is like crafting a magic item - it takes time and money and XP. All of that is based on the final DC of the spell.

Good luck - return here if you have any questions - and you will. :)
People on the boards have made their own factors, and their own seeds, and have suggested changes to the seeds based on the move from 3.0 to 3.5 (the Heal seed for instance, should start with a maximum of 150hp, whereas in 3.0, it did ALL HP).

ROB
Loren Pechtel
03-14-07, 02:09 PM Lets put it another way:

You no more cast epic seeds than you eat flour, sugar, margarine etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jere_RB 03-11-07, 01:12 PM	Took me a while, but I mostly digested the contents of the Epic Level handbook. Epic spells, epic spell slots, increased synergy bonuses, all that's fine. However, I am a little confused by epic seeds, in particular in how to use them. I gather that you have to pass a spellcraft check each time they are employed, but I do not know if they use a regular spell level slot or an epic level slot. I also am a little confused in how they are come across. Do you adventure to find epic seeds? Do you start the game knowing certain seeds? Do epic characters know all the seeds in the ELH, or, again, are they learned through adventuring? Any help would be appreciated.
NoldorForce 03-11-07, 02:14 PM	The term 'seed' refers to the fact that it's a metaphorical building block for an epic spell. As such, they're entirely abstract, unless you want to talk about the spell's precise workings with your spellcasting friends. Basically, you choose a seed that approximates what you want to do. If you're trying to do multiple things, then use multiple seeds. Those seeds only give their base effects if you don't increase the spellcraft DC, so you'll have to augment them in a sense to pull off bigger effects. To actually cast an epic spell, you have to have epic spell slots (granted by the Epic Spellcasting feat) available. You have to prepare or not as normal; thus the sorcerer is the only core class that gets to use them spontaneously. Speaking of augmentation, it seems that perhaps a power-point-based system might be appropriate as well for epic spellcasting/psionics.
Jere_RB 03-11-07, 03:02 PM	Ah. So seeds aren't actually supposed to be cast. They're only there to give starting points on making epic spells. So, it goes like this: You decide on an effect. You reference a epic seed or seeds, combine the total DC of those seeds, and add/subtract mitigating factors from there. Ah, eureka, yes. Ty.
rob_douglas 03-14-07, 11:49 AM	You've got it. Now reread the Epic spells and see how the seeds are employed there. Note that there are many errors in the ELH. You should at least get the errata. There they fixed most of the math errors (a lot to do with the Permanency feature). Also note that in order to cast an epic spell, you first have to research that epic spell, which is like crafting a magic item - it takes time and money and XP. All of that is based on the final DC of the spell. Good luck - return here if you have any questions - and you will. :) People on the boards have made their own factors, and their own seeds, and have suggested changes to the seeds based on the move from 3.0 to 3.5 (the Heal seed for instance, should start with a maximum of 150hp, whereas in 3.0, it did ALL HP). ROB
Loren Pechtel 03-14-07, 02:09 PM	Lets put it another way: You no more cast epic seeds than you eat flour, sugar, margarine etc.