Post/Author/DateTime	Post
YourInnerDarkness 08-08-07, 10:35 PM	Alright. I Dm 2nd Edition did a part of 3rd. I have a Dm doing a 3.5 Campaign We hit Epic levels and such My character is like 24th level or something like that. But see I personaly have a problem. What is a player to do. When he or she has planned out Their character completely. So it has everything it needed. But no one else in the party has done the same so they are fairly Scattered. My character is a Modified Monk due to wishes. But my Problem is no one has the power to keep up with my Character. My Character is to powerfull. I can solo High level dragons like its second to nothing. My character to give you an Example of the Power. I use a chain as my weapon. I use perfect two weapon fighting. So I gain 8 swings per round. My strength is so high that I am doing Phenomenal amount of Damage. See he is a Custom Race. We are playing a monster Campiagn. we have Dopple Gangers and such. My character was based on a Concordant Killer. But in this world. The gods have "Fallen" And my Character happens to know the only "godly" Creature. whom he was trained by and such. So if you have read up on the Concordant Killer they are powerfull to start. We took away alot of the "extra" stuff they get as a monster Race do to exessive Power. But it still hasnt changed the fact that nothing can stop him. He has high Regeneration. A Brutaly high Armor Class. His Dex and Wis are Phenomenal. So what do you do with a Character that Surpasses their party to far? I have stopped using alot of my skills and kind of dumbed down my character so they can keep up. But then it starts to get boring. because I sit their. And I let everyone go first because my Initiative bonus is to high. So I have done everything I can to aid the players. But it still doesnt seem to help.
archerpwr 08-08-07, 11:32 PM	An overpowered monk? Its the homebrew aspect in all likelyhood. I'd say scrap the character and play a different race and not abuse wish.
YourInnerDarkness 08-08-07, 11:48 PM	See the problem is I didnt end up abusing Wish. I used one Wish. And that was to be able to Train as a Tatooed Monk. See for our campaign I wouldnt say The monk should be Scrapped. Its the lack of building the other players ended up with. They didnt plan ahead so their skills ended up fairly scattered. See as where my Character was build specificly one way. And Thats how it ended up. The only reason things die so quickly is because the Dm cant put us up against creatures that can handle fighting me because it would kill them.
archerpwr 08-08-07, 11:56 PM	Here's what I dont get: an overpowered monk. Monk is a really weak class. As for the other players, direct them to the CO boards for rebuilds.
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 12:12 AM	The monk Is Generally weak. Due to monster Classes I had the ability to work around the Monks Weakness. I used a Concordant Disciple. Wich is actually just a Concordant Killer as a monk instead of a Fighter. We removed alot of the Excess stuff from it leaving a few things here and there. So that it could level to its LA of 12. Then from there I leveled my Monk up to 12. Thus a combined Class level of 24. His Wisdom and Dex give him an extremely High AC His Constitution gives him a **** load of Hitpoints. As well as he has a High Stength. Giving him Damage. The Monster Class gives him a Higher Attack Rating. Making it so he has more swings per round. He has a High Initiative because he has Epic Initiative Bonus. As well as his Dex. There for making him a good Melee Combatant. He uses Chains as a weapon. His chains are Custom made with Blades Attached to them. Then I added Perfect two weapon Fighting. So he has 8 Total Swings Per round 4 one hand 4 the other hand. And then me and another player managed to take over the Second Plane of Hell. Giving us the Power of Hell behind us.
archerpwr 08-09-07, 12:28 AM	So you have 12 HD an ECL of 24, and a bab of 6 + 3 epic attack bonus? Its as I thought. You broke either the ECL rules or dont know how bab works.
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 12:46 AM	To clear up some Confusion. I am going to post all the Stats of the Character. and to reply to what you said. I built this Character Directly with my Dm. I have never Dmed 3.5 personaly so I used my dm to do most of the work. Level:12Monster 13Monk Size Large DR 10/-10/+11 10/+7 SR40% Str32-11 Dex49-20 Con31-11 Int24-11 Wis34-7 Cha27-12 Ac63 hp397 Initiative 24 BaB 21-16-11-6 ( due to the combination of the Classes ) Fort 30 Ref37 Will31 The Base Attack Bonus isnt flawed either. The Dm wrote out a Level Chart for the Monster Class. The Ecl was originaly 19 We took it to 12 by taking out the overly powerfull skills.
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 12:48 AM	No beacuse as a Monster Class my Dm designed a level sheet for the Ecl. The base attack bonus went up basically as a Monk Class would because we turned the Base into a Monk. The the Concordant now Disciple. Is a Monk Base instead of a Fight Base.
IdleAltruism 08-09-07, 12:50 AM	Hmm if he only has 12 HD he shouldn't qualify for epic feats and shouldn't use epic progression. Well of course your character is godly, you made a rigged out homebrew template, with custom homebrew weapons. Its clear that you don't understand the epic rules. I would suggest you, your dm, and your group reread the ELH and slowly make your way into epic(starting from 21st) with just base races and classes. You should also refrain from making "custom" anything until you get a better understanding of game balance.
IdleAltruism 08-09-07, 12:56 AM	No beacuse as a Monster Class my Dm designed a level sheet for the Ecl. The base attack bonus went up basically as a Monk Class would because we turned the Base into a Monk. The the Concordant now Disciple. Is a Monk Base instead of a Fight Base. As I said before, don't make anymore "custom" anything until you get a firmer understanding of the game. And if you must I would suggest running it through these forums, because what I'm seeing is totally rigged. Don't forget LA into your calculations of ECL, you seemed just ditch it as if it meant nothing.
archerpwr 08-09-07, 01:05 AM	Y'know, that's kinda funny. I abused the rules on my level 27 gish while you broke them. Funny thing is that the only thing you have better is DR. I'd scrap the character.
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 01:15 AM	See me as a Dm. I personaly wouldnt have allowed this character. but due to the Dm's world. This Character was allowed and as it may be rigged. Its built for this world and the way the Dm designed it. I admit not Understanding 3.5 in the way alot of the rules work. I let my Dm do that. I Dm 2nd Edition because I prefer the System as I have been playing it since I was 8. I have stopped playing this Character for a long time I probably havent played it for about 4 months. Due to Its case. Its basically been scrapped. But in an upcoming Campaign were I am helping my Dm, As a co Dm because well... Her last campaign wasnt really well put together. But we forced ascension on this Character due to the fact that it was "destined" to be the first god. As all the other gods had Fallen in a massive war. It was a great concept for a campign just not well thought out. But the next campaign This Character is turned into the Overlord of a world where the next party will start playing.
IdleAltruism 08-09-07, 01:28 AM	See me as a Dm. I personaly wouldnt have allowed this character. but due to the Dm's world. This Character was allowed and as it may be rigged. Its built for this world and the way the Dm designed it. I admit not Understanding 3.5 in the way alot of the rules work. I let my Dm do that. I Dm 2nd Edition because I prefer the System as I have been playing it since I was 8. I have stopped playing this Character for a long time I probably havent played it for about 4 months. Due to Its case. Its basically been scrapped. But in an upcoming Campaign were I am helping my Dm, As a co Dm because well... Her last campaign wasnt really well put together. But we forced ascension on this Character due to the fact that it was "destined" to be the first god. As all the other gods had Fallen in a massive war. It was a great concept for a campign just not well thought out. But the next campaign This Character is turned into the Overlord of a world where the next party will start playing. This contradicts your OP. Why post that if you scrapped the character and he was meant to be rigged to begin with. This makes me believe you are a troll, that along with several other posts around the epic boards. My advice is learn the 3.5ed rules before playing or Dming it, especially epic level.
PrinceOfTheVoid 08-09-07, 10:01 AM	You do realize that there are far stronger builds than that, don't you? Even with all your homebrewed nonsense, I can think of at least a handful of legitimate builds that could destroy that thing at ECL 24.
archerpwr 08-09-07, 10:16 AM	You do realize that there are far stronger builds than that, don't you? Even with all your homebrewed nonsense, I can think of at least a handful of legitimate builds that could destroy that thing at ECL 24. +1. Most close to my heart would be wizard 6/ Swiftblade 10/ Abjurant Champion 4/ Swiftblade + 4
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 02:42 PM	I honestly dont care what you think of me as. I asked the question to see other peoples point of view on it. See if scrapping it was the best Idea or if there was another way to go about it. And I dont care if thats not the strongest build either. It was a simple question if you have an issue with it dont reply.
rob_douglas 08-09-07, 04:06 PM	I think the problem comes from your and the DMs lack of understanding of LA and ECL. LA is a straight adjustment to the HD that determines the Effective Character Level. Monster level is not a real term, but if it was to be used, would encompass HD+LA. In the case of the Concordant Killer, I am not familiar with it, but googling around it looks like (from MM4 if anyone has that and wants to look it up) that it is 12Hd, and should have an LA of +8-+12, making it an ECL 20-24 creature. Adding 12 monk levels to that, you get an ECL 32-36 character, and that will be a lot better than any other 24th level PC. The Level Adjustment has a couple of nasty effects on the character that make up for the abilities it gives - you get no HD, no Attack Bonus, and no save bonus for those "phantom" levels. They just make it so you don't go adventuring against things much weaker, with friends much weaker. Attack bonus, regardless of which opinion you follow, does depend exclusively on actual HD, and not monster levels. Also, as you said you modified the original to be more monk like, you could have inadvertently created a greater synergy than the campaign can handle. ROB
YourInnerDarkness 08-09-07, 04:36 PM	Yeah... The mixture did really well... Its just I dont know alot of people seem to give me a negative answer rather than what you said there. I admited to not knowing alot about it. My Dm knew what they were doing they wrote out a custom template for it and stuff so. I dont understand some of the 3.5 Rules I prefer 2nd edition. But I sapose its because I have played 2nd edition for 11 years.
Amazing_Triangle 08-09-07, 05:30 PM	Wow just wow Concordant Killer is a CR 19 creature. With tons of immunities, SR, Spell-Abilities, 19HD, tons of stat boosts, 19 natural armor...so lets see my advice... Look at Savage Species. It may not be 3.5 but it does have some nice guidelines for making creatures playable. NOTE: creatures with 15+ hd are usually not playable races. This is because the normal LA that is then attached makes the character ECL 20+. HD 19 + LA +4 ~7 Stats +4 for NA +2 flight (good)+1 Spell-Abilities+1 SR so roughly an ECL of 31~34 So if we lowered it to 12 hd it would have been ECL 24~27 before you added the 12 levels of monk...ECL 36~39 The big thing to remember in 3.5 is that Hit dice + Level adjustment = Effective Character Level. If your DM made this I would direct him to Savage Species pages 10-23. Hope this is helpful. If you need anything else just message me I will be happy to help.
YourInnerDarkness 08-10-07, 08:48 PM	I geuss when it boils down to it I am to old school. I love my older rules. I enjoy 3rd edition as a player. But I dont do the dm thing for it. I havent had a chance to read all of teh dm's guide and stuff so when it breaks down to it there is alot I would have to learn. See when it comes to creating a playable race in second edition its simple. You take the race. And all the abilities it gets with it. If you are using supliments like Skills and Powers. Then you take the abilities of the monster... As in Dark vision or bull rush. And the player starts out with that. Then the player also gains the Hit Dice of that Creature if its Higher than its class. And it also gains that Attribute bonuses and minuses from that creature. Then they start out as a level 1 character. With whatever class it is.
Angus Cotton 08-10-07, 09:37 PM	I actually played in an epic campaign where this happened, and I have no easy solution for you. In my case, the character was my first 3.0 character and passed into epic levels to a 24 druid (you know how powerful these get). I focused on summoning before anyone else knew how powerful summoning could be, and kind of accidentally few into a really overpowering character. To make matters worse, I showed up to every game for over three years of playing (yes, started this druid at level 1),while my fellow players skipped games every so often. This meant by the end of the three years, I had a higher total experience than they did, with a higher level overall (I think they were level 20-21 by the end). My first solution was a solution you do not have as a monk,which was to take my hard earned xp and use it to craft magic items for them. This in the end still did not solve the problem, as I ran out of money to make items, and still id not bring them up on par with my toon. The second solution was the DM's solution, which was just do one final adventure where all our characters became epic heroes or gods in his world, then advance the timeline 2,500 years. We learned from our mistakes, and started over from level 1.
YourInnerDarkness 08-10-07, 11:39 PM	lol thats funny. But yeah. My Second Edition Character is like that. I started him Ages ago. And if you know anything about second edition you will Understand what I am about to say. His Levels are as following. Thief [14] Fighter [13] Assassin[15] Monk [1] and when it boils down to everything. the Max stats you can get on Any Attribute are 25 so my Stats are as following. Str[25] Dex[23] Con[19] Int[18] Wis[17] Cha[17] He uses a bow that Never misses the First shot... and well... seeing as how he is a master with a bow (basically in 3rd edition terms he has perfect fighting with it) as well as his swords and such. But bascially the Strongest Monsters have -10Ac I have a -10 with no armor on. And I can hit the hardest ac with anything over a 1
Angus Cotton 08-12-07, 05:21 PM	So....how are you going to solve this problem Inner?
rob_douglas 08-14-07, 11:51 AM	The thing with 1st and 2nd edition multiclassing was that the powers of each class didn't really stack. When you switched classes, your saves didn't get better until you were better at the new class than the old. This was also true for adding classes to monsters. Making a Concordant Killer who was also a fighter wouldn't get better at fighting until about 14th level (or was it higher) when he was granted a better THAC0. And saves would always take the best of the individual classes. So yes, you will find that converting to 3E, you have to do a lot less multiclassing to achieve the same character, and need to reduce levels a lot. Just looking at the above character, I think that you could make him the same 3E power level as his 2E counterpart with: Monk 1, Fighter 4, Rogue 9, Assassin 10. ROB