Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paladin's Pride 01-14-07, 07:00 PM	So as I near completion of my personal revision of epic rules, I was trying to figure out what to do with epic magical items. I see the same problems with them that most people do, they aren't affordable for a very long time, and tend to force people to rely on what I feel are munchkin tactics (such as the item that provides a +5 luck, competence, sacred, profane, morale, and insight bonus to saving throws, or that stupid use-activated limited wish trick). I wanted epic items to be cheaper in the short term but eventually catch up to where they are in normal epic rules. Secondly, I really didn't like that big x10 hiccup that happens when an item goes epic. Pre-epic, getting two items that increase your AC by +2 that one that gives you a +4. At epic, this situation is turned on its head for quite awhile, where you are often better off investing in a single epic item with a high bonus rather than multiple epic items because the x10 multiplier means that getting over that hill from epic to non-epic is more expensive than increasing the item after it becomes epic. So, I am considering running my epic game so that the price multiplier comes gradually rather than all at once. For example, a +6 cloak of resistance would be only a x2 multiplier for a total cost of 72,000. at +7 the multiplier would be x3 for 147,000, and at +8 it would be x4 for 256,000 gp. At +15 it would have caught up to the normal pricing with a x10 multiplier and after that would be equal to the normal epic pricing rules. In some cases the increase comes faster, like for an epic headband of intellect the multiplier for +8 is x3 for a total cost of 192,000 gp, and a x5 multiplier for a +10 item making the cost 500,000 gp. The biggest problem I can see with this is that it actually makes alot of epic items affordable pre-epic. It might even be possible to find a few epic items in a material plane metropolis. At first this made me think the idea was probably unworkable, but while these items could technically be purchased by non-epic characters, they'd usually be wiser buying non-epic equipment instead. it's almost a 50,000 gp difference between a cloak of resistance +5 and +6, and most characters will have something better to do with than 50k than increase their saving throw bonuses by +1. Even if he does spend the money, it's hardly unbalancing to the game. It does however make it so that epic treasure is available in the low-epic game, and probably makes epic treasure more viable as compared to cheap munchkin tricks and relying on epic spells for everything. So what do you say, folks. Is this just too crazy?
bluemage55 01-14-07, 10:14 PM	Yes. It's wack. Epic Pricing is there for a reason. If not for the x10 multiplier, epic items would be everywhere. The increased cost keeps them rare and special, which is what they should be.
Paladin's Pride 01-14-07, 11:35 PM	Heh, you might be right bluemage, I'm one of those crazy experimenter types who sometimes goes farther with stuff than he should, but I'm not convinced yet the system is totally wack as you put it. One thing I thought I might do is add a +200,000 gp fee on top of the multipliers I described above, that would put every item squarely in epic terms and not let any non-epics get their hands on them, but at the same time would let low-level epic characters still have some epic items. I'm also wondering if your objection is purely flavor-based (epic items should be rare), or if there is also a balance issue you think exists. Personally I think more epic items at low epic level improves balance more than it detracts.
bluemage55 01-15-07, 12:32 AM	The +200,000 gp addition would help. From a balance perspective, epic item pricing serves an important purpose as well. The cheaper epic items are, the more characters will have. The more epic items they have, the stronger they will be. Thus, removal or reduction of epic pricing will serve to overpower characters.
AngelLemmingThief 01-15-07, 07:37 AM	I like your ideas PP. With or without the +200k. Having a smoother distribution makes more sense, I feel. Do you have any more examples of multipliers?
Paladin's Pride 01-15-07, 11:39 AM	Do you have any more examples of multipliers? Alright, I can give you a more complete example of how this could work. The SRD and the epic level handbook give us a pretty good list of when something becomes epic, so I'll show how epic modifiers work in each of these cases. • Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5. • Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5. • Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5. • Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus). These four rules together determine whether a weapon, suit of armor, or shield are epic or non-epic. Previously, when it was epic it triggered the x10 multiplier. In my version, we need to know not only whether it is epic, but how "epic" it is. The multiplier for weapons and armor in my system is equal to 1 +the enhancement bonus to attacks or armor greater than 5 +the effective enhancement bonus of any epic special abilities the item grants OR 1 + the total effective enhancement bonus (epic and nonepic combined) greater than 10. You use whichever modifier is higher. Confused? let me give a few examples to help clear things up. Let's take a +6 holy longsword. The only thing that is epic about this weapon is the +6 enhancement bonus, so the multiplier is 1+1 (the amount by which the enhancement bonus exceeds 5) for a total of x2 multiplier. Note that the holy special ability doesn't increase the multiplier because it isn't an epic special ability and doesn't give a total effective enhancement bonus of more than 10 (it's only a +8 weapon total). Total Price= 256,310 gp. Another example would be a +6 dragon dread longsword. Here we have both an epic enhancement bonus, and an epic special ability. The multiplier is 1+1 (for the +6 enhancement bonus) +7 (the effective enhancement bonus of the dread special ability), for a total modifier of x9. In total, this is a +13 weapon, which would be worth a x4 modifier, but this is lower than the x9 multiplier we calculated, so we take the higher. Total price = 3,042,310 gp. Finally, we could have a +5 vorpal speed brilliant energy longsword. This is a +17, weapon, which makes the multiplier 1+7 (the amount that the weapon exceeds +10), for a total of x8, and since no portion of the weapon is epic except for the total effective enhancement bonus, there is nothing else to consider. Total price = 4,624,310 gp. • Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5. The multiplier is 1 + the amount the natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus exceeds 5. • Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6. The multiplier is also 1 + the amount the enhancement bonus to an ability score exceeds 6, but since these items increase in increments of 2, this causes the multliplier to rise faster. • Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30. I rule that in 3.5 this should be 15 instead of 30. For every +5 that the bonus exceeds this limit, the multiplier increases by x1. For example, a +20 item would be x2, a +30 item would be x4, and a +60 item would be x10. • Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th. • Has a caster level above 20th. • Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items These effects don't use the x10 multiplier anyhow, so there is no change. And of course, the multiplier is always x10 maximum.
AngelLemmingThief 01-15-07, 11:54 AM	Sounds good to me. I would be very interested to see your complete set of revisions when they are ready.
Alias 01-15-07, 01:05 PM	Epic Pricing is there for a reason. If not for the x10 multiplier, epic items would be everywhere. The increased cost keeps them rare and special, which is what they should be. That's what the DM is for - he is the ultimate arbiter of what goes in the game and what doesn't. If he doesn't want +7 swords to be available in Waterdeep, then they aren't. Simple. I'd use the normal pricing, but rule that epic items are available only from epic sources (the archmage, the legendary hero, whatever) or in planar metropoli. Buying epic magic items at the local magic item emporium, even in a place like Waterdeep, just strains credulity. Or the PCs can make them themselves - all epic items have CLs just like normal magic items, which itself puts a limit on when they can have them, outside of the gold piece cost. Getting rid of the x10 cost multiplier also lowers the ridiculous XP costs.
Loren Pechtel 01-15-07, 01:36 PM	I find myself liking this idea. The x10 discontinuity has always bothered me. Why should there be a much greater price gap between a +5 weapon and a +6 than between a +6 and a +7???
bluemage55 01-15-07, 02:47 PM	I find myself liking this idea. The x10 discontinuity has always bothered me. Why should there be a much greater price gap between a +5 weapon and a +6 than between a +6 and a +7??? Because a +6 weapon can penetrate DR/epic. To restrict availiability. To control abundance of equipment. To keep PCs from being overpowered. Notice that at epic, there is "reset" of epic items. An epic character has about as many epic items as a normal character had magic items 20 levels prior. Even the epic crafting feat level requirements follow this, with Craft Epic Arms and Armor coming 20 levels after Craft Arms and Armor. Given that it takes a 23rd level caster to create an Epic Wondrous Item, is it really that odd that the price is much higher?
IceFractal 01-17-07, 04:07 AM	Intended Effect: Epic magic items are rare, characters switch from many non-epic items to a few epic items. Actual Effect: Characters say "to hell with that" and keep their many non-epic items, which they can afford even more of with epic wealth. Epic items don't come into play much until ~40, with the exception of a few unique ones (Rod of Excellent Magic, for instance). You can call this munchkin, but it's realistic. If someone said: "You can have a 55" TV, or for the same price you can have a 50" TV, a new couch, a hi-def speaker system, and a few thousand bucks left over - which are you going to pick? Especially if your life depends on having the right gear?
bluemage55 01-17-07, 04:11 AM	Intended Effect: Epic magic items are rare, characters switch from many non-epic items to a few epic items. Actual Effect: Characters say "to hell with that" and keep their many non-epic items, which they can afford even more of with epic wealth. Epic items don't come into play much until ~40, with the exception of a few unique ones (Rod of Excellent Magic, for instance). I disagree. The intended effect is for characterse to have still have many non-epic items, but to supplement them with a few epic items that benefit a key aspect of their character. I've found that characters start switching to significant use of epic items around level 32, rather than 40.
Alias 01-17-07, 12:17 PM	Because a +6 weapon can penetrate DR/epic. To restrict availiability. To control abundance of equipment. To keep PCs from being overpowered. Again, that's the DM's purview. If he doesn't want the PCs being able to beat up his epic bad guys for whatever reason, he can simply not make any epic weapons available. They have to have Craft Epic Arms and Armor (and 720K gold) to make their own +6 weapons, so it's not likely they'll go that route unless they're really into crafting, because it'll take 2 years to make. I've found that characters start switching to significant use of epic items around level 32, rather than 40. Define "significant". Does this mean everyone will have +6 or better weapons/armor, and epic rods/staves, and whatnot? You can call this munchkin, but it's realistic. If someone said: "You can have a 55" TV, or for the same price you can have a 50" TV, a new couch, a hi-def speaker system, and a few thousand bucks left over - which are you going to pick? Especially if your life depends on having the right gear? Especially if I can keep the sword I've had (and been upgrading) since 3rd level and just upgrade it to +6, instead of buying a new +6 sword.
bluemage55 01-17-07, 03:05 PM	Define "significant". Does this mean everyone will have +6 or better weapons/armor, and epic rods/staves, and whatnot? Level 32 entails 5,600,000 gp of wealth to work with. Usually I see every member of the party with an epic weapon or two, an epic SR item, and a few other items.
Tequila_Sunrise 01-18-07, 10:32 PM	So, I am considering running my epic game so that the price multiplier comes gradually rather than all at once. For example, a +6 cloak of resistance would be only a x2 multiplier for a total cost of 72,000. at +7 the multiplier would be x3 for 147,000, and at +8 it would be x4 for 256,000 gp. At +15 it would have caught up to the normal pricing with a x10 multiplier and after that would be equal to the normal epic pricing rules. In some cases the increase comes faster, like for an epic headband of intellect the multiplier for +8 is x3 for a total cost of 192,000 gp, and a x5 multiplier for a +10 item making the cost 500,000 gp. So what do you say, folks. Is this just too crazy? This solution is similar to the one I recently came up with: instead of squaring an item's bonus as is done in pre-epic, I cube the bonus in epic. This makes it more efficient to spread out your item bonuses, like in pre-epic. In my games, I don't allow most of those 'weird' bonuses (luck, insight, divine, etc...) because they just feel munchkin to me. As a result, the standard epic pricing system would UNDERPOWER my players. My philosophy is that magic items do not define characters; they are simply a survival necessity for adventurers, so changing the mechanic by which they become available to characters mid-game is just silly. So no, your idea is not crazy at all.
Paladin's Pride 01-18-07, 11:33 PM	I like your solution to the problem too, Tequila. Mostly because it is much simpler and more elegant than my solution. The only problem I could see would be that after a little while (looks to be around the +10 mark), epic items actually start costing more than they do in the epic handbook, and that price difference starts to grow at a rapid pace. I wonder how your system would work at high epic if epic wealth kept multiplying by 30% instead of dropping down to around 10%. I may have to experiment with that a little, because it admittedly is a much simpler way to calculate magic item prices.
Loren Pechtel 01-19-07, 12:41 AM	This solution is similar to the one I recently came up with: instead of squaring an item's bonus as is done in pre-epic, I cube the bonus in epic. This makes it more efficient to spread out your item bonuses, like in pre-epic. In my games, I don't allow most of those 'weird' bonuses (luck, insight, divine, etc...) because they just feel munchkin to me. As a result, the standard epic pricing system would UNDERPOWER my players. I've wondered about cube myself. As the levels go up it becomes too expensive, though.
Loren Pechtel 01-19-07, 12:50 AM	I like your solution to the problem too, Tequila. Mostly because it is much simpler and more elegant than my solution. The only problem I could see would be that after a little while (looks to be around the +10 mark), epic items actually start costing more than they do in the epic handbook, and that price difference starts to grow at a rapid pace. I wonder how your system would work at high epic if epic wealth kept multiplying by 30% instead of dropping down to around 10%. I may have to experiment with that a little, because it admittedly is a much simpler way to calculate magic item prices. !#^!^@%$^@% I just tried to model it and I can't make the power function work in Quattro!
Tequila_Sunrise 01-19-07, 08:06 AM	I like your solution to the problem too, Tequila. Mostly because it is much simpler and more elegant than my solution. The only problem I could see would be that after a little while (looks to be around the +10 mark), epic items actually start costing more than they do in the epic handbook, and that price difference starts to grow at a rapid pace. I wonder how your system would work at high epic if epic wealth kept multiplying by 30% instead of dropping down to around 10%. I may have to experiment with that a little, because it admittedly is a much simpler way to calculate magic item prices. Yeah cubing the bonuses does force the DM to give out more wealth at a steeper pace, which is why I actually might end up liking your system better.
Tequila_Sunrise 01-20-07, 12:02 AM	PP, consider this idea officially adopted into my house rules. Even if it is a bit more complicated than my idea, it's more streamlined if you do a the math.
Paladin's Pride 01-20-07, 04:40 PM	Wow Tequila, glad to hear you liked my idea so much. I decided for the final version I would go with a variant of the additional 200,000 gp that I had discussed before, where the amount added depends on the modifier. It's +200,000 gp with a x2 modifier, +175,000 for x3, +150,000 gp for x4, and so on until it becomes +0 at x10. It makes things even more complicated I'm afraid, but it makes it so all epic items are epic priced while still making it so that items even out with the original epic item prices eventually.
jcethan2859 03-03-07, 01:28 PM	Hey, PP, I know you haven't been on this thread in a month (or two) but I'm going to try and find the time in the next week or two (I got a vacation coming up) to redo the prices for a bunch of stuff in the Epic Book with your revised pricing system. It should be on the boards by around the 16th of March, with full credit to you for the system, and me only taking credit for the menial labor. ;)
Paladin's Pride 03-08-07, 03:38 PM	Hey, PP, I know you haven't been on this thread in a month (or two) but I'm going to try and find the time in the next week or two (I got a vacation coming up) to redo the prices for a bunch of stuff in the Epic Book with your revised pricing system. It should be on the boards by around the 16th of March, with full credit to you for the system, and me only taking credit for the menial labor. ;) Hey, thanks! :ayyyy!: I'd been trying to get around to the work of converting everything but you know how real life (and running actual games) has a tendency to intervene.
jcethan2859 03-14-07, 04:38 PM	Ok, I got a fairly large amount of the items repriced using the guidelines aforementioned. One thing I changed was the multiplier rule for epic weapon/armor/shield special abilities. The way the ELH seems to take care of them would imply that the multiplier should use the same (ability cost - 5 + 1: multiplier) that an epic enhancement bonus (like a straight +7) would gain. I based this off the wording that special abilities at epic work just like epic enhancement bonus. It wouldn't take much work to change this to what you had said previous PP, but I felt it was more inkeeping with the spirit of your changes. Anywho! Explanation of Multipliers for Armor and Shields, and Weapons Due to the nature of the multiplier system, clear cut prices for epic armor and weapons aren't possible. But don’t worry, here’s what you do. First, determine the enhancement bonus to the armor, shield, or weapon you are creating, this will determine the first part (if any) of the multiplier. (Ex: a +6 longsword and a +6 keen, vorpal longsword would both be +6) Then you determine the total enhancement bonus with special abilities for the armor, shield, or weapon you are creating, this will determine the second part (if any) of the multiplier. (Ex: a +4 keen, vorpal, dancing, brilliant energy longsword has no one part of it that is epic, but the total enhancement bonus is +18, and is thus an epic item.) Finally, any special abilities on an armor, shield, or weapon that has more than a +5 enhancement bonus cost has a multiplier to its cost as if it were an enhancement bonus. (Ex: +1 everdancing longsword has an x4 multiplier, same as if it was a +8 longsword; ex: +6 acidic blast longsword has a x2 multiplier for its +6 enhancement and another x2 multiplier for acidic blast) Add all multipliers together to get the total multiplier up to a max. of 10. (Ex: a +6 keen, undead dread longsword would have a x2 multiplier for its +6, a x3 multiplier for undead dread, and a x6 multiplier for its total bonus of +15, for a total multiplier of x11, but as x10 is the max multiplier, the multiplier is x10.) After you determine the multiplier and have calculated its cost otherwise, consult the multiplier chart to figure out the epic item cost. Some examples may help. A +4 heavy fortification, wild hide armor, before epic item pricing, would cost 144,000 gp because of its total enhancement of +12. Its multiplier would be x3 (no multiplier for enhancement as its only +4, a x3 multiplier for +12 total enhancement, and no multiplier for epic special abilities as there are none) and would cost 432,000 gold for multiplying the base cost by three, and then 607,000 gold for the added cost (which is not multiplied), and finally 607,165 for the masterwork hide armor itself (which is not multiplied). A +6 everdancing longsword, before epic item pricing, would cost 392,000 gp because of its total enhancement of +14. Its multiplier would be x10 (x2 multiplier for enhancement as it’s a +6, a x5 multiplier for +14 total enhancement, and x4 for epic special abilities for everdancing; but the max multiplier is x10) and would cost 3,920,000 gp for multiplying the base cost by ten, and then no additional cost, and finally 3,920,315 gp for the masterwork longsword itself (which is not multiplied). Multiplier Added Cost x2 +200,000 gp x3 +175,000 gp x4 +150,000 gp x5 +125,000 gp x6 +100,000 gp x7 +75,000 gp x8 +50,000 gp x9 +25,000 gp x10 +0 gp Armor and Shields Enhancement Market Price Multiplier +6 shield/armor +36,000 gp x2 +7 shield/armor +49,000 gp x3 +8 shield/armor +64,000 gp x4 +9 shield/armor +81,000 gp x5 +10 shield/armor +100,000 gp x6 +11 shield/armor +121,000 gp x7 +12 shield/armor +144,000 gp x8 +13 shield/armor +169,000 gp x9 +14 shield/armor +196,000 gp x10 +15 shield/armor +225,000 gp x10 Total Enhancement Market Price Multiplier +11 +121,000 gp x2 +12 +144,000 gp x3 +13 +169,000 gp x4 +14 +196,000 gp x5 +15 +225,000 gp x6 +16 +256,000 gp x7 +17 +289,000 gp x8 +18 +324,000 gp x9 +19 +361,000 gp x10 +20 +400,000 gp x10 Weapons Enhancement Market Price Multiplier +6 weapon +72,000 gp x2 +7 weapon +98,000 gp x3 +8 weapon +128,000 gp x4 +9 weapon +162,000 gp x5 +10 weapon +200,000 gp x6 +11 weapon +242,000 gp x7 +12 weapon +288,000 gp x8 +13 weapon +338,000 gp x9 +14 weapon +392,000 gp x10 +15 weapon +450,000 gp x10 Total Enhancement Market Price Multiplier +11 +242,000 gp x2 +12 +288,000 gp x3 +13 +338,000 gp x4 +14 +392,000 gp x5 +15 +450,000 gp x6 +16 +512,000 gp x7 +17 +578,000 gp x8 +18 +648,000 gp x9 +19 +722,000 gp x10 +20 +800,000 gp x10 Amulet of Epic Natural Armor Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Epic Items, barkskin, creator’s caster level must be three times the amulet’s bonus; Market Price: 344,000 gp (+6), 469,000 gp (+7), 662,000 gp (+8), 935,000 gp (+9), 1,300,000 gp (+10), 1,769,000 gp (+11), 2,354,000 gp (+12), 3,067,000 gp (+13), 3,920,000 gp (+14), 4,500,000 gp (+15); Weight: -. Ring of Epic Protection Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Forge Ring, Craft Epic Items, shield of faith, creator’s caster level must be three times the amulet’s bonus; Market Price: 344,000 gp (+6), 469,000 gp (+7), 662,000 gp (+8), 935,000 gp (+9), 1,300,000 gp (+10), 1,769,000 gp (+11), 2,354,000 gp (+12), 3,067,000 gp (+13), 3,920,000 gp (+14), 4,500,000 gp (+15); Weight: -. Cloak of Epic Resistance Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Items, resistance, creator’s caster level must be three times the amulet’s bonus; Market Price: 272,000 gp (+6), 322,000 gp (+7), 406,000 gold (+8), 530,000 gp (+9), 700,000 gp (+10), 922,000 gp (+11), 1,202,000 gp (+12), 1,546,000 gp (+13), 1,960,000 gp (+14), 2,250,000 gp (+15); Weight: -. Epic Ability Enhancement Item Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Items; Market Price: 367,000 gp (+8), 625,000 gp (+10), 1,083,000 gp (+12), 1,789,000 gp (+14), 2,560,000 gp (+16); Weight: 1 lb. or -. Epic Skill Enhancement Item Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Items; Market Price: 280,000 gp (+20), 362,500 gp (+25), 510,000 gp (+30), 737,500 gp (+35), 1,060,000 gp (+40), 1,492,500 gp (+45), 2,050,000 gp (+50), 2,747,500 gp (+55), 3,600,000 gp (+60); Weight: 1 lb. or -. Bracers of Relentless Might 4,275,500 gp Ring of Adamant Law/Chaotic Fury/Ineffable Evil/Virtuous Good Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Forge Ring, Craft Epic Items; Market Price: 960,000 gp; Weight: -. Boots of Swiftness Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Epic Items; Market Price: 1,749,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb. Bracers of Epic Armor Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Epic Items, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be twice the bracer’s bonus; Market Price: 362,000 gp (+9), 475,000 gp (+10), 634,000 gp (+11), 845,000 gp (+12), 1,114,000 gp (+13), 1,447,000 gp (+14), 1,850,000 gp (+15), 2,329,000 gp (+16), 2,890,000 gp (+17), 3,240,000 gp (+18); Weight: 1 lb. Mantle of Great Stealth Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Items, blur, nondetection, invisibility, silence; Market Price: 1,356,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb. The formatting could be better, but I don't know how to do it better... damn my newbieness.
Paladin's Pride 03-17-07, 01:48 PM	Okay, so if I understand your change correctly the modifier is equal to 1 +(enhancement bonus -5) + (special ability modifiers -5). Hmmm....That's actually a really good idea. Now a +1 everdancing bastard sword is the same price as a +1 vorpal bastard sword of speed. Good work so far, thanks so much! :D
Elessar Lespin 03-18-07, 12:55 PM	That's what the DM is for - he is the ultimate arbiter of what goes in the game and what doesn't. If he doesn't want +7 swords to be available in Waterdeep, then they aren't. Simple. Amen! I'm currently running a high level epic campaign and have restricted epic magical items. When we first began play I allowed each of my players to have an epic weapon (of a certain enhancement limit) but made them write background story of how they actually attained it. Epic items, while not artifacts, are close enough for my judgement. I can't see them just floating around on the black market, or in a quaint little shop in some farming village. If they were that common, the peasants would be buying them up for a few bundles of wheat and levelling entire kingdoms with them. :P All of that aside, however, I think your idea to scale epic item pricing is a good one Paladin. I too, have always had some trouble swallowing the rather steep pricerange on epic items. After all why buy a Cloak of Charisma +8 for 640,000gp when a Cloak of Charisma +6 (32,000gp) and a Tome of Leadership & Influence +2 (55,000gp) does the same thing for a hell of a lot less.
bluemage55 03-18-07, 04:48 PM	All of that aside, however, I think your idea to scale epic item pricing is a good one Paladin. I too, have always had some trouble swallowing the rather steep pricerange on epic items. After all why buy a Cloak of Charisma +8 for 640,000gp when a Cloak of Charisma +6 (32,000gp) and a Tome of Leadership & Influence +2 (55,000gp) does the same thing for a hell of a lot less. The reason is that sooner or later you have both a Cloak of Charisma +6 and a +5 inherent bonus to Charisma, and if you want to get it higher, you might be willing to pay the price. Pricing is set so that players will pay as much as they are willing to for a given item, and not a copper less. With RAW pricing, players are willing to pay the price for an epic item if it is a key part of their game plan, so the price isn't too high unless you are determined to flood the game with epic items.