An Actual 10th level spell. [Archive] - Wizards Community

An Actual 10th level spell. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chrono9665
04-10-08, 12:15 AM Okay,

Without going into too much detail I have a character that may very soon come into contact with an incredibly powerful artifact. This artifact among other things is going to increase my character's ability to see the mechanics of how the world works around him. My character is slowly gaining wisdom and intelligence and as a direct result is sort of becoming like a John Nash, (russell crowe in a beautiful mind for the movie watchers) or like a tom hanks character in the DaVinci code. Anyway the overall effect is that he is beginning to actually see how saves and ability scores and BAB work and calculate them and what not. This Super Powerful Artifact could only be used by someone like him who has this sort of unique mind and its effect is that it allows him to break past the mechanics and bypass Mystra's Ban. My character would then be allowed to cast 10th level spells.

Now let me clarify. He would not have a 10th level slot like you would get from improved spell capacity, nor would it be like epic spellcasting in the traditional sense. He would be able to cast a 10th level spell. Not something Metamagiced, and not something with a spellcraft DC. It would work just like a 0-9 spell that I could cast.

So with all that said, I went looking through old ADD material and discovered that ADD was post Mystra's ban and they did not have 10th level spells. (yes I know how stupid this is, but i never played ADD and was unsure when the time period was). I know at some point however there were 10th, 11th and even a single 12th level spell, So my question amounts to this "are there any actually recorded 10th level spells so I can judge their power level and perhaps create my own, does anyone have a mechanism for creating spells that applies in this situation, or am I treading into New territory Here?"

thanks for any help offered.
Douglasm
04-10-08, 01:36 AM I used to think that Karsus' Folly and Mystra's ban were the transition from 1e to 2e, but I have recently learned that the Time of Troubles covered that edition change and Mystra's ban came much earlier. I think 10th level and above spells have always been regarded as plot devices, never really as spells players should have access to.

Most of my D&D experience has been in 3.x, but I once read a 2e (I think) source book titled Secrets of the Magister that mentioned 10th level spells. As I recall, it described 9th level spells as being comparable to just one tiny part of a typical 10th level spell, and gave examples along the lines of raising volcanoes and causing earthquakes throughout an entire kingdom. For another example of how powerful such spells might be, consider that it's a third of the way from 9th level spells to a spell that literally turned its caster into a Greater Deity. It also said the Magister could cast a 10th level spell perfectly without going through the normal shenanigans required to bypass Mystra's ban, but would immediately go to Mystra's Judgement (effectively dying) afterwards.

In 3.x sources, Lost Empires of Faerun has an example epic spell and notes that it and several of the ones in Players' Guide to Faerun existed as 10th level or higher spells before Mystra's ban. It also notes that 10th level spells were cast from 10th level spell slots gained from Improved Spell Capacity. Nevermind the metaplot's restriction of what time period 3.x rules apply to, it clearly states that actual 10th level spells would be cast from 10th level slots gained from Improved Spell Capacity if Mystra's ban did not exist.
Senevri
04-10-08, 08:38 AM I think you have the key ingredient there: What can you do if you could cast 9th level spells multiple times, with lower restrictions?

Here's an idea:

Unleashed Arcana
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 10
Components: V,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can duplicate the effect of a number of spells of level 9 or lower, up to a maximum number of 1 spell per caster level.

Silly, overpowered, broken... reasonable for a 10th level spell?
chrono9665
04-10-08, 01:43 PM okay so where did you get this spell and are there more...hopefully one of them would be more reasonable
Jam412
04-10-08, 02:05 PM I recall there being 10th level spells in the four volume spell compendium for AD&D. I think that these were for some sort of Dragon Kings from the Dark Sun setting. The only one that I recall was called "Raise Nation". Essentially you had to go to some long lost city that hadn't seen civilzation for at least 1000 years or something, you cast the spell, *POOF* instant undead necropolis under your control..
Tequila_Sunrise
04-10-08, 05:48 PM Honestly, what an "actual 10th level spell" is depends on the creative mind behind your game, whether they be published writer or everyday DM. Back in 2e I had an FR supplement called "Secrets of Netheril" or something like that. It had the story of the rise and fall of the Netherese empire, the folly of Karsus and it detailed several 10-12 level spells.

In 3e, a "10th level spell" is more of a description than a definition, so an "actual 10th level spell" is whatever your DM or campaign writer decides they are, as is its power level. You say you don't want to use the epic spell casting mechanic and you're apparently playing in FR, so a 10th level spell's power should be greater than Wish or Time Stop but less than "ascend to godhood like Karsus." What exactly falls within those bounds is again up to your DM or campaign writer.

TS

(The only things I remember about the Karsus' Avatar spell is that it required the heart of a great wyrm gold dragon as a material component, that it would have worked had Karsus chosen to replace any deity other than Mystra and that it is the only 12th level spell to have ever been created in FR.)
betrayor
04-10-08, 08:06 PM Actually arcane age-empire of netheril is available for download in WOTC website.
It contains some 10,11 level spells and the also the olny one 12 level,the legendary Karsus Avatar.
Here is the link.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chrono9665 04-10-08, 12:15 AM	Okay, Without going into too much detail I have a character that may very soon come into contact with an incredibly powerful artifact. This artifact among other things is going to increase my character's ability to see the mechanics of how the world works around him. My character is slowly gaining wisdom and intelligence and as a direct result is sort of becoming like a John Nash, (russell crowe in a beautiful mind for the movie watchers) or like a tom hanks character in the DaVinci code. Anyway the overall effect is that he is beginning to actually see how saves and ability scores and BAB work and calculate them and what not. This Super Powerful Artifact could only be used by someone like him who has this sort of unique mind and its effect is that it allows him to break past the mechanics and bypass Mystra's Ban. My character would then be allowed to cast 10th level spells. Now let me clarify. He would not have a 10th level slot like you would get from improved spell capacity, nor would it be like epic spellcasting in the traditional sense. He would be able to cast a 10th level spell. Not something Metamagiced, and not something with a spellcraft DC. It would work just like a 0-9 spell that I could cast. So with all that said, I went looking through old ADD material and discovered that ADD was post Mystra's ban and they did not have 10th level spells. (yes I know how stupid this is, but i never played ADD and was unsure when the time period was). I know at some point however there were 10th, 11th and even a single 12th level spell, So my question amounts to this "are there any actually recorded 10th level spells so I can judge their power level and perhaps create my own, does anyone have a mechanism for creating spells that applies in this situation, or am I treading into New territory Here?" thanks for any help offered.
Douglasm 04-10-08, 01:36 AM	I used to think that Karsus' Folly and Mystra's ban were the transition from 1e to 2e, but I have recently learned that the Time of Troubles covered that edition change and Mystra's ban came much earlier. I think 10th level and above spells have always been regarded as plot devices, never really as spells players should have access to. Most of my D&D experience has been in 3.x, but I once read a 2e (I think) source book titled Secrets of the Magister that mentioned 10th level spells. As I recall, it described 9th level spells as being comparable to just one tiny part of a typical 10th level spell, and gave examples along the lines of raising volcanoes and causing earthquakes throughout an entire kingdom. For another example of how powerful such spells might be, consider that it's a third of the way from 9th level spells to a spell that literally turned its caster into a Greater Deity. It also said the Magister could cast a 10th level spell perfectly without going through the normal shenanigans required to bypass Mystra's ban, but would immediately go to Mystra's Judgement (effectively dying) afterwards. In 3.x sources, Lost Empires of Faerun has an example epic spell and notes that it and several of the ones in Players' Guide to Faerun existed as 10th level or higher spells before Mystra's ban. It also notes that 10th level spells were cast from 10th level spell slots gained from Improved Spell Capacity. Nevermind the metaplot's restriction of what time period 3.x rules apply to, it clearly states that actual 10th level spells would be cast from 10th level slots gained from Improved Spell Capacity if Mystra's ban did not exist.
Senevri 04-10-08, 08:38 AM	I think you have the key ingredient there: What can you do if you could cast 9th level spells multiple times, with lower restrictions? Here's an idea: Unleashed Arcana Universal Level: Sor/Wiz 10 Components: V, Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: See text Effect: See text Duration: See text Saving Throw: See text Spell Resistance: Yes You can duplicate the effect of a number of spells of level 9 or lower, up to a maximum number of 1 spell per caster level. Silly, overpowered, broken... reasonable for a 10th level spell?
chrono9665 04-10-08, 01:43 PM	okay so where did you get this spell and are there more...hopefully one of them would be more reasonable
Jam412 04-10-08, 02:05 PM	I recall there being 10th level spells in the four volume spell compendium for AD&D. I think that these were for some sort of Dragon Kings from the Dark Sun setting. The only one that I recall was called "Raise Nation". Essentially you had to go to some long lost city that hadn't seen civilzation for at least 1000 years or something, you cast the spell, POOF instant undead necropolis under your control..
Tequila_Sunrise 04-10-08, 05:48 PM	Honestly, what an "actual 10th level spell" is depends on the creative mind behind your game, whether they be published writer or everyday DM. Back in 2e I had an FR supplement called "Secrets of Netheril" or something like that. It had the story of the rise and fall of the Netherese empire, the folly of Karsus and it detailed several 10-12 level spells. In 3e, a "10th level spell" is more of a description than a definition, so an "actual 10th level spell" is whatever your DM or campaign writer decides they are, as is its power level. You say you don't want to use the epic spell casting mechanic and you're apparently playing in FR, so a 10th level spell's power should be greater than Wish or Time Stop but less than "ascend to godhood like Karsus." What exactly falls within those bounds is again up to your DM or campaign writer. TS (The only things I remember about the Karsus' Avatar spell is that it required the heart of a great wyrm gold dragon as a material component, that it would have worked had Karsus chosen to replace any deity other than Mystra and that it is the only 12th level spell to have ever been created in FR.)
betrayor 04-10-08, 08:06 PM	Actually arcane age-empire of netheril is available for download in WOTC website. It contains some 10,11 level spells and the also the olny one 12 level,the legendary Karsus Avatar. Here is the link. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads