Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Senevri 03-20-07, 07:03 PM	Okay... our current campaign started at level 12, and is getting close to 20. As I'm completely ignoring the existence of Epic Spellcasting for now ( helped by the fact that there's no full caster in the current party ), I don't really see too much change in approaching epic play. One thing, though... I was building the first epic BBEG against my players and this is where I'm at currently: Still needs a name Male Half-fiend wizard 26 (CR 29) CE Medium Outsider (chaotic, evil, extraplanar) Init 13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., see invisibility(CL 28); Listen +3, Spot +11 (eyes of the eagle, no ranks, will see...) Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Giant, Infernal AC 42, touch 20, flat-footed 32 (+9 Dex, +8 Armor, +1 insight, +8 natural, +6 shield) hp 334 (26 HD); regenerate 1hp/h; DR 5/-, 10/magic, 10/adamantite(150 points) Immune poison, absorb 50 spell levels of level 8 or lower. Resist acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10;SR 35 Fort 23, Ref 21, Will 21 Speed 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 30 ft. (average) Melee 2 claws +16 (1d6+6/x2), bite +11 (1d4+3/x2) or +3 wounding greatsword, +19 (2d6+12/19-20/x2), + wounding(-1 con) or Steeldance +42/+42 Melee, 2d8+16(19-20/x2) + wounding(-1 con) on the first strike, unattended Ranged +22 for spells Space 5ft., Reach 5 ft. Base Atk 13, Grapple 19 Atk Options Quick Draw, Moment of Prescience (1/day) Special Actions Dark Speech, Smite Good, Moment of Prescience (1/day), Chaotic Spell Recall (2/day, swift), Contingency Combat Gear hevard's handy haversack containing whatever int 33 deemed necessary, Bite of the Werebear scroll, scroll of scorching ray Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 28th):12th--Quickened empowered disintegrate (DC 32), quickened still delayed blast fireball (DC 32) 11th--Empowered horrid wilting (DC 32), quickened avasculate (DC 32) 10th--Quickened chain lightning (DC 32), quickened dispel magic, greater 9th--Maw of chaos (DC 32), Prismatic Sphere (DC 32), astral projection, 2xquickened teleport, silent still ethereal jaunt 8th--Horrid wilting (DC 31), mind blank, moment of prescience, superior invisibility, quickened resilient sphere, _ 7th--Delayed blast fireball (DC 30), arcane sight, greater, quickened steel dance, 2x plane shift, energy immunity 6th--fleshshiver (DC 29), stoneskin, dispel magic, greater anticipate teleportation, greater, solid fog, empowered force missiles 5th--silent dimension door, dimension door, greater, 2xquickened true strike, magic jar, waves of fatigue, wall of force 4th--4xassay spell resistance, 3xSpell Enhancer, empowered false life, 3xforce missiles, _ 3th--3xSound lance (DC 26), displacement, fly, haste, _ 2th--create magic tattoo, alter self, mirror image, alarm, greater, shadow spray (DC 26), _, _ 1th--4xNerveskitter, 4x True Strike 0th--read magic, 2xdetect magic, prestidigitation Spell-like Abilities (CL 26th): 3/day--Unholy aura (DC 22), Poison (DC 24), Darkness 1/day--Destruction (DC 21), Summon monster IX, Horrid wilting (DC 22), Unhallow, Blasphemy (DC 21), Contagion (DC 18), Unholy blight (DC 18), Desecrate Abilities Str 17, Dex 29, Con 28, Int 37, Wis 13, Cha 19 Special Qualitiesoutsider traits, half-fiend traits, familiar, scry on familiar, share spells Feats Silent Spell, Still Spell, Quicken Spell, Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, Dark Speech, Improved Init, Quickdraw, Chaotic Spell Recall, Eyes of the Abyss, Demonic Skin, Multispell, 3x Improved Spell Capacity Skills (roughly 53/390 points) Concentration +34, Craft(drawing) +13 knowledge(arcana) +40, knowledge(planes) +40, spellcraft +40 Possessions Combat Gear plus headband of intellect +6, ioun stones: lavender and green, pearly white spindle, dusty rose prism, orange prism, Robe of the Demon Archmagi, Amulet of Natural Armor +5, Cube of Force, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Glamered +5 Mithral buckler of Heavy Fortification, Belt of Bodily Health +6(con), Ring of Freedom, Ring of Demonic Wizardry IV, Cloak of Etherealness, +3 wounding Greatsword, +3 Greatsword, Eyes of the Eagle, luck stone, roughly 18.8K GP Advancement by class levels; Favored Class Wizard Smite Good (Su) 1/Day, add +20 to damage vs. good foe Moment of Prescience (1/day): add +25 insight bonus to single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check or saving throw, or to AC vs. single attack Spellcasting Short Range 95 ft. Medium Range 380 ft. Long Range 1520 ft. Certain spells tattooed on skin with invisible ink, hidden with secret page. (teleport, dispel magic, greater mage armor, plane shift, magic missile, sonic lance). Daily Spells Counted on above stats, already cast: Anticipate teleportation, greater create magic tattoo(+1 cl), empowered false life, mind blank, stoneskin, prestidigitation, , Moment of prescience ContingencyIf about to lose consciousness, Greater Plane Shift to sanctuary. OR, on month of astral travel, if the silver cord is about to be cut, end Astral Travel. Power-up suite Superior Invisibility, Dimension Door, Greater, Unholy Aura, Cube of Force, Displacement, Haste, Fly, Energy Immunity as needed. Tactics Nerveskitter improves base init to 18. Use Unholy Aura first round to increase your AC, combined with quickened steel dance , the riffraff killer. If you know your opponents are tough, start going nova with Quickened spells, and loading up the power-up suite Use summon monster IX to summon a fiendish scorpion or a bebilith, to distract the opponents. scroll of Scorching ray use to determine if BBEG can reliably hit the touch AC of opponents, to see if there's need to use True Strike. use Cube of Force for defence, move with dimension door, greater. Superior invisibility isn't "cool" in combat, so only use it if it's tough otherwise. Custom itemsRing of Demonic Wizardry IV: As Ring of Wizardry IV, but requires Spellcraft 20 and CE alignment. Robe of the Demon Archmagi: as Robe of The Evil Archmagi but armor bonus of 8 instead of 5. Half-fiend Wiz 26 (cr 29) Movement: 30, Fly 30(average) Elite Array + half-fiend+levels+innate: str 22 =13 +4+0+5 dex 23 =14 +4+0+5 con 17 =10 +2+0+5 int 31 =15 +5+6+5 wis 13 =8 0+0+5 cha 19 =12 +2+0+5 With items: str 22 dex 29 = 23 + (gloves +6) con 17 int 37 = 31+(headband +6) wis 13 cha 19 HP: 160 (4+78+78)==(26d4+78) SR 35 DR 10/Magic Darkvision 60 Smite good: +20 damage +1 natural armor Resist 4elem 10 immune poison Saves: All: +4 robe(enchantment), +1 luck F 18 =all+Base8 +epic2 +3stat R 21 =all+Base8 +epic2 +6stat W 21 =all+Base12 +epic3 +1stat Wealth: 730K Max. single item: 243 333 GP Items: Headband of Intellect +6: 36K Permanently Invisible: Ioun Stone, (absorb 50 spell levels) Lavender and Green ellipsoid: 40K Ioun Stone, ( regeneration ) Pearly White spindle: 20000 Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose - +1 insight AC: 5000GP Ioun Stone, Orange prism: +1 CL (30K) Robes of the Evil Archmagi: 75K +5 armor ac, +4 saves, +2 cl checks vs. SR. Stone of Good Luck: 20K +1 luck bonus on saves, skill checks Handy Haversack: 2K Amulet of Natural Armor +5: 50K = 278k Cube of Force, 62K Ring of Freedom, 40 000 Ring of Wizardry IV: 100K Gloves of Dex +6: 36K Cloak of Etherealness:+55K =459K Glamered +5 mithral buckler of heavy fortification: 100K+2.7k(no crits, SA) =562.7K 2x+3 wounding greatsword: 100K =712.7K Remaining: ~18K Rest: Scrolls, potions, consumables AC: 41/24/34 =10+1+9dex+5armor+1stone+5nat+6shield+4U nholyAura Attack: Melee +20/+15, Ranged +20/+15 Steeldance: 2x "+3 Wounding Greatswords", 28 rounds, +42/+42 Melee(CL+int), 2d8+16(19-20/x2) + wounding(-1 con) (Brilliant Aura from scroll to be mean.) Feats: 5 Epic, 4 Wizard Bonus, 7 generic Improved Spell Capacity X3 Multispell Improved Heighten Spell Improved Initiative Quick Draw Dark Speech Silent Spell Still Spell Quicken Spell Empower Spell Heighten Spell (used on everything with metamagic) Skills: Spellcraft 45 Base Spell DC: 23 CL 28, 30 vs. SR Spellbook(known, maybe memorized:): Steel Dance Astral Projection Teleport, Greater Delayed Blast Fireball (damages, but doesn't kill players) Foresight Moment of Prescience (daily?) Mind Blank, Daily Create Magic Tattoo, +1CL, Spell Enhancer Death Throes? Heart of Stone cast? DR 5/- Moment of Prescience daily Bite of the Werebear Spell Slots: Effective INT 37 0th: 4 1st: 8 2nd: 7 3rd: 7 4th: 11 5th: 7 6th: 6 7th: 6 8th: 6 9th: 6 10th: 2 11th: 2 12th: 2 1st: Nerveskitter x4, 2nd: Create Magic Tattoo(CL+1), Alter Self, 3rd: Sound Lance x 7 4th: Spell Enhancer x3, Assay SR x4, Force Missiles x2, Empowered False Life(+20HP), dimension door 5th: still Assay SR, Quickened True Strike x2, silent Dim.Door Wall of Force x2, Magic Jar 6th: Anticipate Teleportation, Greater x1 (140ft.) Heroism, Greater(+20HP) FleshShiver, Stone Skin, Solid Fog x2 7th: Quickened Steeldance , Energy Immunity, Arcane Sight, Delayed Blast Fireball, 2x Plane Shift 8th, Horrid Wilting, Moment of Prescience, Superior Invisibility, Silent Quickened Haste, Silent Still Dispel Magic, Flensing 9th: Astral Projection, Maw of Chaos, Prismatic Sphere, Quickened Teleport X2, Silent Still Ethereal Jaunt 10th: Empowered Flensing, Quickened Chain Lightning 11th: Quickened Delayed Blast Fireball, Silent Still Freedom 12th: Quickened Empowered Disintegrate Quickened Ghostform SLA: Darkness 3/day, Desecrate, Unholy Blight, Poison 3/day, Contagion, Blasphemy, Unholy Aura 3/day, Unhallow, Horrid Wilting, Summon Monster IX, Destruction He's a Grazzt-spawn, and technically above the wealth-limit by a million or so, as he has access to fiendish henchies with Wish SLAs... However, I found out as an NPC he couldn't actually afford any epic items. He's supposed to be a somewhat ideal, albeit simply built mage -perhaps with few Archmage levels, but his hitpoints are abysmal. He's hot-tempered, but paranoid and very clever, so he'll be plaguing the players mainly via henchmen, or through the safety of Astral Projection. The players are powerful enough, that he'll try to use them instead of down-right killing them, first. by the time he'll be thinking of that, the players should be capable of surviving an overconfident assault or two. What I'm looking for, is some advice on how to build him further, feat-selection-wise, and spell-selection-wise - what he should be keeping memorized and such. Stilled freedom is one, he has Greater Teleport, most likely -- no shapechange or polymorph, which don't exist in my game, for the most part. I have a M.A.D. agreement on Time Stop - I won't if they won't. Feat-shuffle via Embrace/Shun spells is available in my game. My books are listed in my signature, mainly he'll have access to anything from PHB, Spell Compendium and FC1. In general, any caveats when approaching epic gameplay?
Taeldrin Laesrash 03-20-07, 07:46 PM	First thing: This is for later in the campaign, right? A CR 31 baddie will probably kill a party of level 21ers. That aside, I say put some feats into Spell Focus, and maybe Improved Toughness for extra HP. Bump up the saves, too; you can never be too careful. Maybe make him a conjurer, and give him stuff like Augment Summoning to summon nastier creatures (If you do this, check out the variant wizards in the Hypertext SRD).
Senevri 03-20-07, 11:38 PM	Knowing my players, I'd expect they'll be able to challenge him - if he's alone - around level 25 or so... or when they can avoid getting Insta-gibbed by Blasphemy, anyway. In any case, it's supposed to become a recurring antagonist / long-term BBEG. Hmm. Well, the one school I can more or less afford to lose is enchantment. No Greater Heroism, Power Words or Symbols, though... hurts. Improved toughness is iffy -it's only 25 more HP, after all. an item of CON might not be a bad pick, though. Saves... Well, I'm relying on his spell absorbtion/possibly turning against insta-kills, but he'd still need to survive various feats. First sign of trouble and he'll run away, though. Spell focus in Conjuration or Evocation might be good - He should be relatively straight-forward, combat-wise... no illusion or evocation, mostly. Fire and Brimstone, and all that. ...Oop, gotta add Heighten to the list of feats, definitely. No UA stuff, sorry. It's much harder to design something that'll beat the players without killing them, instead of directly overwhelming them with nasty badness.
rob_douglas 03-21-07, 12:38 AM	Quick thoughts - I think the CR is off. Half-fiend is +3. Wizard 25 is 25 by the book, but there is an optional rule that you should consider that you should treat NPCs as 2 levels lower at Epic. See ELH page 111. I think that this is born out by less access to wealth. The Elite array is assumed for any creature with Class levels. I don't understand the Innate you were adding. So I get CR 28 officially, but more like 26. I think your party would be able to take him out in a straight up fight at 21st level with some planning. Immunity to Blasphemy is easy to get (Greater Spell Immunity). As long as they know what they are going against. So I would add some levels, maybe add some Archmage for Elemental Mastery. His cohorts will also be a big deal - can he Magic Jar into any, before Astral Projection? As for wealth, are you using his CR or ECL for determining NPC wealth. I think you should use his CR - as that is more accurate. That would be even less to work with. Alternatively, you could, since he is the BBEG, use the high-powered stats (32-point buy, elite is like 22) and give him ECL equivalent equipment (ECL 29). I treat my major campaign villains as PCs for this reason - to give them more equipment and higher abilities. Then he might be worth a CR28. Are you sure you want Wizard and not Sorcerer? Costs you a lot of nice feats though, but you can blast away a lot. Take Rapid Metamagic and Quicken Spell so you can cast Quickened spells. Quicken SLA is an option, but I don't think it is worth it - even for Unholy Aura - though if you did, you could save money on the resistance and deflection items by relying only on that. Don't underestimate your epic characters. I am sure that as written they could cause him some serious concerns. No full casters will hurt them for a little while, but they will be able to make it up. ROB
runestar 03-21-07, 12:54 AM	Why is it cr31? A half-fiend wiz25 is only cr28 by the MM.:confused: You might want to go wiz23 instead, and splash 1-2 lvs of archmage for mastery of elements, and maybe spell power, mastery of shaping or SLA:time stop. Your AC is quite low...at least too low for my liking. As a half-fiend, you get unholy aura, so you could consider ditching your ring of protection and cloak of resistance and spending them on some other stuff. Maybe scrap the robes and either get bracers of armour+8 or +5 twillight mithril chainshirt, perhaps with other armour enhancements instead? This still only nets you an AC of at least [10(base)+7(dex)+6(NA)+4(deflection)+8(ar mour)+6(shield)+1(luck)+1(insight)] for 43. No epic spellcasting means no epic mage armour, nor can you splash 1 lv of monk for kungfu genius, which could have added another +25AC.:( You have little use for the ring of regen and sword of wounding, both of which represent severe drains on your cash flow. Get amulet of con(combining it with amulet of NA if need be). Some of your ioun stones may have to go as well. Where are you getting all those odd numbered increases to your stats? Tomes? You will have problems accessing freedom of movement since it is not a wiz spell. Typical buff spells should at least include mindblank, protection from spells, moment of prescience, true-seeing, false life, stoneskin, displacement, globe of invul, repulsion, energy resistance/immunity and spell turning. Others may exist, but I am using just the PHB. Greater heroism does not work with mindblank anyways, so it is no big loss. As for stats, it should be something like this...your layout looks very odd indeed.:confused: str 22 =13 +4(half fiend) dex 24 =14(base)+4(half-fiend)+6(gloves of dex) con 18 =12(base) +2(half-fiend)+6(amulet of con) int 36 =15(base) +4(half fiend)+6(level up)+6(headband)+5(wishes) wis 10 = 10(base) cha 10 =8(base) +2 Alternatively, swap dex with con if you need more hp, and str with wis if you want a slightly higher will save. As for spells, you will definitely want to divide and conquer. Timestop is a no-brainer. Use spells like forcecage, wall of force and maze to split up the party, tie them up with summons (but try to avoid abusing gate), and blast away(preferably with damage spells your summons are immune to). I would normally recommend the use of save-or die spells, but since you prefer damage spells... Reserve horrid wilting for the party rogue and anyone with access to evasion. Enervation can be fun, a maximized, twinned enervation drains 8 lvs off the shot. Quicken spells like prismatic spray, chain lightning etc. Greater dispel to remove buffs. Quickened extended fleshshiver to auto-stun a pesky foe so that he will auto-fail his reflex saves. Use limited wish to replicate key spells to turn the tide of battle, such as heal for when you are on the verge of death. If you ever want more slots (especially lv10+), there is always the specialist variant in complete mage. You could take spell focus and greater spell focus if you want higher dcs. Maybe multispells so you can pump out quickened damage spells at a faster rate? 2 spell/round just does not cut it at higher lvs. I have given a rough general overview. Do you need any more specific advice?
Senevri 03-21-07, 01:14 AM	Why is it cr31? A half-fiend wiz25 is only cr28 by the MM.:confused: Elite Array+half-fiend+25 wiz levels (or maybe 23 + 2 archmage levels), innate boosts from glabrezu henchies/summoned efreets, 1+3+25+2 = 31. I didn't know that class levels assume elite array by default... Hm. Your AC is quite low... As a half-fiend, you get unholy aura, so you could consider ditching your ring of protection and cloak of resistance and spending them on some other stuff. Maybe scrap the robes and either get bracers of armour+8 or +5 twillight mithril chainshirt, perhaps with other armour enhancements instead? Twilight mithril isn't available, books... Unholy aura is +4 - I'd end up with even lower AC. You have little use for the ring of regen and sword of wounding, both of which represent severe drains on your cash flow. Get amulet of con(combining it with amulet of NA if need be). Some of your ioun stones may have to go as well. Ring of Regen... Yeah, it probably needs to go. The idea with the swords is to use Steeldance + etherealness, for an example. Maybe cast brilliant weapon on them, if the opponent isn't undead/construct Where are you getting all those odd numbered increases to your stats? Tomes? Big-time old fiend. Glabrezu henchies, gated efreets. It's basically "free" money-wise, so I slapped +2 CR for it. Only the +int and +con really help... but it'd just be stupid not to get everything if possible, and easy. You will have problems accessing freedom of movement since it is not a wiz spell. Ring of spell storing + kicking a henchman? Ring of Freedom might not be a bad idea... Typical buff spells should at least include mindblank, protection from spells, moment of prescience, true-seeing, false life, stoneskin, displacement, globe of invul, repulsion, energy resistance/immunity and spell turning. Others may exist, but I am using just the PHB. Greater heroism does not work with mindblank anyways, so it is no big loss. Right, right... good stuff. I'll probably go over some spell compendium picks over these. Alternatively, swap dex with con if you need more hp, and str with wis if you want a slightly higher will save. Hmm. I've already established the character's quite strong... Basically the stats calculated there don't include items. As for spells, you will definitely want to divide and conquer. Use spells like forcecage and maze to split up the party, tie them up with summons (but try to avoid abusing gate), and blast away(preferably with damage spells your summons are immune to). I would normally recommend the use of save-or die spells, but since you prefer damage spells... Save-or-dies are no fun for the players, and thus not much fun for the DM either - they're okay when players use them - it's not like I'll run out of monsters, after all. Reserve horrid wilting for the party rogue and anyone with access to evasion. There's a Monk. Yes. Hmm... Maw of Chaos...
Senevri 03-21-07, 01:44 AM	Quick thoughts - I think the CR is off. Half-fiend is +3. Wizard 25 is 25 by the book, but there is an optional rule that you should consider that you should treat NPCs as 2 levels lower at Epic. See ELH page 111. I think that this is born out by less access to wealth. The Elite array is assumed for any creature with Class levels. I don't understand the Innate you were adding. So I get CR 28 officially, but more like 26. I think your party would be able to take him out in a straight up fight at 21st level with some planning. Immunity to Blasphemy is easy to get (Greater Spell Immunity). As long as they know what they are going against. Innteresting. There's a high chance they won't have proper caster support - they'd need to hire someone or buy items for most stuff. So I would add some levels, maybe add some Archmage for Elemental Mastery. His cohorts will also be a big deal - can he Magic Jar into any, before Astral Projection? Wiz 26 is nice, as it nets +1 epic feat. Archmage is definitely a good idea. Well... yes, I'd presume. an interesting idea. Possess a Balor, then Astral Travel... I wonder, how is he managing all those henches? "Or Else" only goes so far, after all. Feats... I think I'll have to rule that you cannot trade normal feats for epic feats, nor vice versa. would be too cheesy otherwise. Dark Speech might be a good pick, for one feat... As for wealth, are you using his CR or ECL for determining NPC wealth. I think you should use his CR - as that is more accurate. That would be even less to work with. Alternatively, you could, since he is the BBEG, use the high-powered stats (32-point buy, elite is like 22) and give him ECL equivalent equipment (ECL 29). I treat my major campaign villains as PCs for this reason - to give them more equipment and higher abilities. Then he might be worth a CR28. ECL. CR might be interesting - I was kinda sad I couldn't give him any epic items. Are you sure you want Wizard and not Sorcerer? Costs you a lot of nice feats though, but you can blast away a lot. Take Rapid Metamagic and Quicken Spell so you can cast Quickened spells. Quicken SLA is an option, but I don't think it is worth it - even for Unholy Aura - though if you did, you could save money on the resistance and deflection items by relying only on that. Books. No Rapid Metamagic. Quicken is a definite yes. With 13th level slots, I can quicken 9th lv. spells. At this point this half-demon could wipe them all out within a single round, effectively... But he suffers from Supervillain Cliches, up to a point - even if he's not completely ignorant of the Evil Overlord list. Maybe he's trying to impress daddy dearest, or to just take the throne? We shall see... Don't underestimate your epic characters. I am sure that as written they could cause him some serious concerns. No full casters will hurt them for a little while, but they will be able to make it up. ROB I really really don't know much of epic. depending on the situation, they can defeat very powerful opponents - with 5 in a team, they took out a CR 17 dragon around ECL 12-13 to start with, OTOH well-played lower-level critters can challenge them - they tend to be a bit careless from time to time. Also, they have a weakness for grapplers, it seems - a SMIX Fiendish Monstrous Scorpion was nearly a TPK. Well, they had a weakness, anyway... The party composition is currently: 3.0 Shifter/Warblade: There's no Polymorph nor Shapechange in the game for PCs ( some fiends have it, but mostly for disguising as a mortal race ), but the shifter is an exception. Gets ex's and feats, and has few powerful forms - he just gained the mighty Dusk Giant, which makes him a very powerful fighter - however he won't have the survivability of a golem or a wartroll in that shape. AB will be around +36, but AC only around 27 at this point. Monk: Pure thus far, had 3d8 fists, but I allowed him to spend EXP to get one of the dice maximised (avg. 3.5 extra damage per hit) to reduce rolling. Can do above 200 damage/round easy -- if all of the damage gets through. AC 43 right now. Dread Necromancer: Very deadly, but dies easily, measly 80ish HP. Will soon become a Lich, which should pull him up. I'm going to allow Spell Knowledge (feat) to pull from list of ANY arcane spell, as there's no limit in RAW. Kinda weak, but has save-or-dies, and horrid wilting. Sorcerer: The most powerful of them all, as she's playing the character I'd play if I was playing... but she hasn't really been playing much and might not be in the game, at all. I've allowed them to reroll 1:s on HP rolls, and I'm doing the same thing for monsters. Sudden death due to bad luck isn't that fun, if it happens often, after all.
Senevri 03-21-07, 02:01 AM	Chain Lightining, definitely - especially with Elemental Mastery Something that stuns, level drains... all good. Nasty, not immediately fatal tricks are much fun for the DM. The death itself should come from something that might be stoppable, or escapable, if they players aren't stupid. Hmm. I pretty much need one level of Wizard, to get those 4x improved spell capacities. wiz 26 it is... Which nets another 110K for me to use and raises the max. price of a single item I can own. Multispell would be very good, but quickened timestops will have to do. Which means... conjurations, pretty much.
runestar 03-21-07, 04:03 AM	Or you could go wiz27, and take the epic counterspell feat, letting you counterspell any number of spells each round. Your players may never get another spell off successfully again...:evillaugh
Senevri 03-21-07, 12:44 PM	Hm hm... Increasing CR is after all just more XP for the players... If I "magically" bring this down to CR 26-28, I guess I can afford to add a few class levels...
rob_douglas 03-21-07, 11:42 PM	Getting the CR wrong has 2 effects. One is giving out more XP, but the other is that it becomes too easy a fight, and may make them not take future fights seriously enough. While I know you don't like save or die effects, you should note that without them, the BBEG will have trouble minimizing the parties effectiveness. It is only a short break for the dead PC - as they should have the resources to return. The advantage of a death or two is that it makes the success of the party over that enemy seem more important and successful. In the campaign I am running, the first time they met the main antagonists, one of the party, the scout, got ambushed and killed before he did anything. It was rough for him, but I had him help me run other things, at least do some rolls, and then the party got him back when the battle broke up. It was a draw - both sides retreated, and now they are going back in, aware that any one of them could die in a single round! Tensions are really high now - but it will be all the sweeter for them when they win.... ROB
runestar 03-22-07, 01:57 AM	It should be noted that at epic lvs, death is simply a 10-minute hiatus...;)
Senevri 04-18-07, 07:53 PM	Updated with some spells included. Switched the Ring of Prot. for a Ring of Wiz. 4, I'll be trusting my Unholy Aura for deflection. Ring of Regen for Ring of Freedom, which makes picking Freedom as a spell redundant. I'm hoping I can sufficiently impress them with the single Multispell. Fly is there for better and perfect fly speed, when needed. About half of the spells are run away/antisuck, some are constant/daily boosts, and the rest is really just a circus show of nasty spells. Greater Heroism gives morale bonus, which does indeed stack with the robe of archmagi. also, the +20 temporary hit points may be good. Feat-wise, I kinda regret I can't get Improved Combat Casting, but it's not really a problem. I think I might pick Chaotic Spell Recall and Demonic Skin for an extra casting of Maw and +2 AC. Quick Draw is there so I can quickdraw spells from Haversack if needed - this essentially means, I can fill my higher level slots with metamagics. Hmm... Surprisingly small part of the AC, for an example, comes from spells... it's mostly just gear. I'm hoping the AC will be adequate.
Aracor 04-18-07, 11:49 PM	Nondetection along with a displacement spell will do wonders for the AC of your person. Well, it'll add a 50% miss chance to anything with an attack roll; and to see it even with true seeing requires a caster level check DC 15+ caster level of your wizard if he casts it himself.
Senevri 04-19-07, 04:20 PM	*ahem* Thank you for replying. Yes, Displacement is nice... however, I don't think it interacts with Nondetection the way you think it does... I think. Any ruling? I think I'll be swapping STR with CON and declaring, "Oh, he was using Bite of the Werebear back then!" BOTWB+Alter Self to get back to looking normal. I think it's roughly by-the-book, or at least not bending any rules too much.
Aracor 04-19-07, 04:30 PM	*ahem* Thank you for replying. Yes, Displacement is nice... however, I don't think it interacts with Nondetection the way you think it does... I think. Any ruling? Displacement has no interaction whatsoever with nondetection. What I assume you're questioning is how nondetection interacts with true seeing; the spell in question. The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells. Nondetection also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast nondetection. If you cast nondetection on yourself or on an item currently in your possession, the DC is 15 + your caster level.Is true seeing a divination? Yes. Therefore it logically follows trying to see someone under the effects of nondetection using it; the caster of true seeing needs to make a caster level check.
bluemage55 04-19-07, 06:14 PM	Nope. True seeing is not being used against the creature, it is being used against the displacement spell, and thus nondetection will not interfere. It's fairly similar to dispel magic vs. spell turning. If you cast dispel magic targeting spell turning specifically, and not the creature, it will not be reflected.
Aracor 04-19-07, 07:07 PM	I disagree. True seeing doesn't target spells, nor does it suppress them. Divinations aren't used to affect other magic, that's abjurations. Since true seeing is a divination, it's simply trying to detect the correct location of the person; who in my example is protected by a nondetection spell. If you want to find the person, you need to make your caster level check. Chris from WotC customer support agrees with me, although I know most people will just laugh and say customer support knows nothing. The nondetection spell states "If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check ... <or the divination fails>" Does that only apply to divination spells that are used for scrying, or can nondetection prevent someone with See Invisibility from seeing an invisible creature? -Yes, any divination spell would be affected.
bluemage55 04-19-07, 08:17 PM	CustServ is meaningless. If you call them repeatedly and get different people, you will get different answers. Nondetection prevents you from using divinations against the creature. True seeing is not being used to reveal information about the creature (such as detect evil detecting the creature's alignment). Instead, you are using it to see through illusions. The divination is not made against the creature, but against the illusions themselves.
Aracor 04-19-07, 08:47 PM	CustServ is meaningless. If you call them repeatedly and get different people, you will get different answers. Nondetection prevents you from using divinations against the creature. True seeing is not being used to reveal information about the creature (such as detect evil detecting the creature's alignment). Instead, you are using it to see through illusions. The divination is not made against the creature, but against the illusions themselves.Question: How is a creature's exact location not information about the creature? We're probably not going to agree on this, but as the only 'counter' to true seeing, requiring a costly material component, and still allowing a caster level check to overcome it; is NOT that bad. But it's what nondetection was made for. If it just defended against scrying, it would say spells with the scrying subtype. But it says divinations. Incidentally, where does true seeing say that it's not being used against the person? Information about where a person is, or WHAT a person is, would seem to me to qualify as 'information about the person'.
bluemage55 04-19-07, 08:52 PM	Yes, because a 3rd-level spell should be able to counter a 5th-level spell, leaving illusions themselves with no counter. :rolleyes: True seeing isn't being used to detect the creature's exact location in space (after all, true seeing doesn't help you locate them if they also happen to be hiding) . That would be locate creature or discern location. True seeing is only being used to pierce the illusions. It's left up to the user of true seeing to locate the creature with their own eyes.
Aracor 04-19-07, 09:34 PM	Yes, because a 3rd-level spell should be able to counter a 5th-level spell, leaving illusions themselves with no counter. :rolleyes: But a fifth level spell countering a 9th level spell is OK? Hello, pot? Meet kettle. So assuming your way works; nearly an entire school of magic is nullified by a 5th level spell. Assuming my way works, nearly an entire school of magic is nullified by a 3rd level spell...Except, of course, for the caster level check that you can make to overcome nondetection? Which is more imbalanced? True seeing isn't being used to detect the creature's exact location in space (after all, true seeing doesn't help you locate them if they also happen to be hiding) . That would be locate creature or discern location. True seeing is only being used to pierce the illusions. It's left up to the user of true seeing to locate the creature with their own eyes. I hold to my question: Where does true seeing state that it is affecting the illusions rather than the person or object that has an illusion spell cast on it? Seems to me that magic affecting magic is abjuration...like, I don't know; nondetection? Mind blank? Dispel magic?
bluemage55 04-19-07, 11:09 PM	But a fifth level spell countering a 9th level spell is OK? Hello, pot? Meet kettle. So assuming your way works; nearly an entire school of magic is nullified by a 5th level spell. Assuming my way works, nearly an entire school of magic is nullified by a 3rd level spell...Except, of course, for the caster level check that you can make to overcome nondetection? Which is more imbalanced? True seeing has a range of 120 ft. Nondetection, however, protects you from divinations from any distance. I hold to my question: Where does true seeing state that it is affecting the illusions rather than the person or object that has an illusion spell cast on it? Seems to me that magic affecting magic is abjuration...like, I don't know; nondetection? Mind blank? Dispel magic? The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. The spell allows you to see through illusions. This is not the same as divining the location of a creature.
Aracor 04-20-07, 12:05 AM	Most combats occur easily within 120'; so that's basically like saying "Fireball is bad because if it goes off within 20 feet of you you'll hurt yourself". And virtually anything attacking you needs to get within 120' of you before it can actually hurt you, in which case your version makes it ineffective. Nondetection protects from illusions at any distance, BUT IT ALLOWS A CASTER LEVEL CHECK. My point is that it is NOT a perfect defense. True seeing is a perfect defense against illusions as a fifth level spell. Oh yeah; I think you bolded the wrong sentence. sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effectsThis is more specific, so it applies over a more general rule.
bluemage55 04-20-07, 12:13 AM	The part you bolded is poorly worded: I doubt that you would argue that the spell allows you to automatically pinpoint a creature with a +1000 Hide check that has blur, while any other creature without blur or displacement suffers no such stigma. The spell does not pinpoint the location of a creature. It only lets you see through the illusion.
Aracor 04-20-07, 09:13 AM	The part you bolded is poorly worded:Yet it's an exact description of how it works with a blur or displacement effect. I doubt that you would argue that the spell allows you to automatically pinpoint a creature with a +1000 Hide check that has blur, while any other creature without blur or displacement suffers no such stigma. The spell does not pinpoint the location of a creature. It only lets you see through the illusion.I WOULD argue that you can automatically pinpoint a creature with a +1000 hide skill that was under the effects of blur if that was their source of concealment to be able to hide in the first place. Otherwise; no. If they're successfully hidden true seeing doesn't do anything, because true seeing doesn't work on things that the caster can't see. That's already a built-in limitation of the spell because it's how SIGHT works. But, if you can see the person, then true seeing will allow you to attempt to penetrate the illusions warding the person and see where they truly are. But nondetection forces a caster level check, since true seeing is a divination. We're probably going to just have to agree to disagree, but I'd like to see some other people chime in on this issue. I still don't see how a chance to negate true seeing is unbalanced compared to true seeing completely completely nullifying (without fail) an entire school of magic. In this case, I'm not talking about PCs. PCs which have to deal with a one minute per level duration aren't terribly abusive. But when a large number of powerful outsiders have True Seeing always up, it starts to get ridiculous. And I'm glad I don't play an illusionist at high levels in your games.
Senevri 04-20-07, 10:02 AM	Added a more readable statblock version Swapped STR with CON, picked heritor feats, mainly for 2 more Maw of Chaoses /day, dropped Improved Heighten, losing some DC, but gaining 2 more high-level slots. The _ lines mark unchosen spells. questionable content: No true seeing, low battlefield control. Custom Ring of Wizardry, custom Belt CON item. Do you think giving this full Tanar'ri traits would be unfair? There's really no guide for building actual demons from scratch... Greater Dimension Door is AWESOME for mages! IMO, anyway. Might be missing one feat, I think. the Radiant Assault may be a stupid pick, since it's essentially a less powerful version of Maw of Chaos.
Aracor 04-20-07, 10:46 AM	I'd actually give him some more spells pre-cast, such as contingent energy resistance. That will basically react to throw up an energy resistance spell of the first energy type that's thrown at him. Or he can just have energy immunity precast since it lasts 24 hours. Other than that, I'd give him at least a couple of permanent spells as well, specifically noting See Invisibility and Arcane Sight, which will help a lot overall. Also, per the magic item compendium you can pay the difference between bracers of armor +5 and +8 to actually upgrade that robe of the evil archmagi, netting him an extra 3 AC easily. Final note: The ioun stones that absorb spells require a readied action; so you may or may not find that useful. With all of the quickened spells this guy can cast; he may be able to pop off three quickened spells and then ready an action, but it still means that if nobody casts at him he won't be using his standard action. I hate that. Other than that, looks pretty good. You've got the basics covered.
runestar 04-20-07, 10:50 AM	I would probably scrap the robe of archmagi for +5 twillight mithril chainshirt, since many of its benefits are already superseded by your other abilities. If you feel you need more slots(especially lv10+), you can always opt to specialize. As for battlefield control, how can you forget the 2 main staples - forcecage and maze? 1 or 2 limited wishes is very useful as well just in case. You seem to have 1 epic feat too many, so you might also want to replace 1 ISC with multispell so you can unload spells faster. Don't forget that it is still their 4 actions to your 1 action each round, so you need to even the odds somewhat.
HairyApe 04-20-07, 11:43 AM	I like to make my caster BBEG vindictive. Inevitably, they will fall to the PC's (of course, it's more fun that way), but for casters with money for rods or sudden meta magics, I'll leave scrolls lying around. One of my favorites for high levels is to have the BBEG write a note and caste a sudden maximized (maybe empowered also) Symbol of Weakness as his "mark." The pc's find it after he's been vanquished, and have to crawl home cause they are too weak to walk. In obscure cases, they might all die from starvation due to an inability to move for 5-6 days (depending on strength). I find this is a good way to artificially boost a CR (or Encounter Level) for a boss without making the actual fight tougher. If nothing else, it will help leave a lasting impression of this guy in their minds.
Aracor 04-20-07, 11:48 AM	I would probably scrap the robe of archmagi for +5 twillight mithril chainshirt, since many of its benefits are already superseded by your other abilities. If you feel you need more slots(especially lv10+), you can always opt to specialize. As for battlefield control, how can you forget the 2 main staples - forcecage and maze? 1 or 2 limited wishes is very useful as well just in case. You seem to have 1 epic feat too many, so you might also want to replace 1 ISC with multispell so you can unload spells faster. Don't forget that it is still their 4 actions to your 1 action each round, so you need to even the odds somewhat.Oh, I missed that. MAZE YES! Forcecage is expensive, but if he's got some extra gold to burn on the material component, it's awesome. At the very least it forces a disintegrate spell to be targeted somewhere other than you. Oh yeah, have a moment of prescience precast as well, since it's on your list. Great as a panic button, since it lasts hours.
Senevri 04-20-07, 12:12 PM	I'd actually give him some more spells pre-cast, such as contingent energy resistance. That will basically react to throw up an energy resistance spell of the first energy type that's thrown at him. Or he can just have energy immunity precast since it lasts 24 hours. CER is just 10 points. I already have that from half-fiend. Energy Immunity... vs. WHAT element, exactly? My ruling with EI is that multiple castings overlap. Other than that, I'd give him at least a couple of permanent spells as well, specifically noting See Invisibility and Arcane Sight, which will help a lot overall. I can make it so... but would that mean increasing CR? Remember, I'm not building a PC... Also, per the magic item compendium you can pay the difference between bracers of armor +5 and +8 to actually upgrade that robe of the evil archmagi, netting him an extra 3 AC easily. That, OTOH is very keen. I think I will. I may have to drop the Wounding from the greatswords... I wonder, could I use large, huge, or gargantuan greatswords, or would that be against the intent of the spell? Final note: The ioun stones that absorb spells require a readied action; so you may or may not find that useful. With all of the quickened spells this guy can cast; he may be able to pop off three quickened spells and then ready an action, but it still means that if nobody casts at him he won't be using his standard action. I hate that. ...I didn't know that. It's not in the SRD, so that's why. Grr. Maybe I'll need to set up an empowered spell turning, then. I would probably scrap the robe of archmagi for +5 twillight mithril chainshirt, since many of its benefits are already superseded by your other abilities. No PHB2. If you feel you need more slots(especially lv10+), you can always opt to specialize. Mmh... Maybe. I like generalists, but going for Conjurer or Necromancer might not be a bad idea. Or even Evoker( !! ).... As for battlefield control, how can you forget the 2 main staples - forcecage and maze? 1 or 2 limited wishes is very useful as well just in case. You seem to have 1 epic feat too many, so you might also want to replace 1 ISC with multispell so you can unload spells faster. Don't forget that it is still their 4 actions to your 1 action each round, so you need to even the odds somewhat. ...so I have. I thought I remembered I got epic feats as standard, on 21, 23, and 26, and Wizard epic feats on 23 and 26, but the feats come at 21, 24 and 27, don't they? Forcecage and Maze... Forcecages are negated by a 11K rod of nullification, so meh. Maze, OTOH, isn't bad. Not having cloudkill is a bit meta, but considering he lives in Azzagrat, where practically everyone is poison immune, it's not too big a leap I like to make my caster BBEG vindictive. Inevitably, they will fall to the PC's (of course, it's more fun that way), but for casters with money for rods or sudden meta magics, I'll leave scrolls lying around. One of my favorites for high levels is to have the BBEG write a note and caste a sudden maximized (maybe empowered also) Symbol of Weakness as his "mark." The pc's find it after he's been vanquished, and have to crawl home cause they are too weak to walk. In obscure cases, they might all die from starvation due to an inability to move for 5-6 days (depending on strength). I find this is a good way to artificially boost a CR (or Encounter Level) for a boss without making the actual fight tougher. If nothing else, it will help leave a lasting impression of this guy in their minds. that's quite clever, and fits a slightly paranoid mage--- after all, he's confident that even if he's vanquished, he will return and he'd like his stuff to be where he left it.
Aracor 04-20-07, 12:46 PM	Energy Immunity... vs. WHAT element, exactly? My ruling with EI is that multiple castings overlap.Well, does your villain have prior knowledge about the PCs? Does he know what elements they favor? If so, that'll work great. And they DO overlap. But when you overlap fire immunity with cold immunity, you still have two different immunities. Unless you mean that instead of overlapping, one supercedes the other and you can only have one immunity up at a time. Not exactly RAW, but reasonable. Other than that, I'd give him at least a couple of permanent spells as well, specifically noting See Invisibility and Arcane Sight, which will help a lot overall. I can make it so... but would that mean increasing CR? Remember, I'm not building a PC...Depends. Does your character have exactly enough experience to be a level 26 wizard? If he has a little extra, it doesn't affect the CR, and is a very reasonable expenditure of his resources, to have a few permanent spells up. They're still subject to dispelling by a higher level caster; so it's not a big deal. Using a magic tattoo isn't increasing his CR, is it? Heh, you didn't look under the table in the SRD. The pale lavender and lavender and green stones work like a rod of absorption, but absorbing a spell requires a readied action Forcecages are negated by a 11K rod of nullificationSo? It's still an 11K item and an action to use it. Either way, worst-case scenario it's a standard action directed at something other than your fiend. You might also think about Irresistable Dance.
Senevri 04-20-07, 02:07 PM	Added irresistible dance, since it's fun. I still have one epic feat too much, which is annoying. I don't want to give it up! >_<; *sigh* Dropped one ISC. As for familiar, I'm thinking... either nothing, or a snake with Plane Shift, Greater.
runestar 04-21-07, 04:20 AM	And they DO overlap. But when you overlap fire immunity with cold immunity, you still have two different immunities. Unless you mean that instead of overlapping, one supercedes the other and you can only have one immunity up at a time. Not exactly RAW, but reasonable. Depends on how you interpret this line from the PHB... Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts. A literal reading might imply that only the last spell immunity takes effect, the rest are suppressed for the remainder of the duration. Irresistable dance is not bad, but unless you have arcane reach or a means of dealing it from range, I would not recommend it. Call me paranoid, but a mage has no business being 5ft away from an enemy fighter...:P Also, it has the compulsion descriptor. How common will mindblank be on your PCs? If you have an epic familiar, it will also have access to familiar spell. I guess maze is a no brainer, since I can't think of any other spells which are remotely as useful, considering the inherent shortcomings of the feat. I am curious - is it possible to chain a greater dispelling? Sure beats a mundane area dispel. Let rip, use greater arcane sight to see which PCs have the least magical auras on them. Also, I think your tactics waste the first few rounds too much. I feel you can just assume unholy aura and a summoned monster are already up and running when the PCs encounter the enemy mage. You might want to settle for 1d4+1 weaker monsters instead, it might tie the PCs up longer than a single monster. Then, it is just a simple matter of unloading your firepower.
Senevri 04-21-07, 06:35 AM	Depends on how you interpret this line from the PHB... A literal reading might imply that only the last spell immunity takes effect, the rest are suppressed for the remainder of the duration. This is my reading for Energy Immunity, and Heroics, for an example. The other interpretation is too borken. Why wouldn't a caster walk around with 4x-5x energy immunity all the time, otherwise? Irresistable dance is not bad, but unless you have arcane reach or a means of dealing it from range, I would not recommend it. Call me paranoid, but a mage has no business being 5ft away from an enemy fighter...:P Also, it has the compulsion descriptor. How common will mindblank be on your PCs? Range: Touch... Didn't notice that. The monk and DN won't be affected, at epic levels, the other two are casters. Off it goes, I guess. If you have an epic familiar, it will also have access to familiar spell. I guess maze is a no brainer, since I can't think of any other spells which are remotely as useful, considering the inherent shortcomings of the feat. Well, I'm partial to Plane Shift, Greater, as it can stay in a pocket and use that to flee with the mage if it gets necessary to do so. Technically, I have a contingency, but it can be dispelled, after all... I am curious - is it possible to chain a greater dispelling? Sure beats a mundane area dispel. Let rip, use greater arcane sight to see which PCs have the least magical auras on them. Well, not without picking Chain MM it isn't. Also, I think your tactics waste the first few rounds too much. I feel you can just assume unholy aura and a summoned monster are already up and running when the PCs encounter the enemy mage. You might want to settle for 1d4+1 weaker monsters instead, it might tie the PCs up longer than a single monster. Well, y'see, there are a few scenarios - if I'm seeking conflict, I'll pre-buff when I'm at an appropriate range. I shold be arrogant enough to try to minimize spell-use -especially if I'm Astral Projecting to material. Later on, if the PCs are going for me in my home Sanctuary, there'll be my henchies for them to deal with. This means at least four Balors and quite a few lesser demons- Glabrezu and such. Of course, at that point the PCs should be a credible threat, and I will pre-buff to the maximum -- not to mention, actually going at them with killing intent. I'll probably try to bring the full conflict to bear when they're around level 25 or so, depending on how powerful they are on early epics. Then, it is just a simple matter of unloading your firepower. In-deed!
rob_douglas 04-21-07, 12:27 PM	Multiple castings of Energy Immunity are supposed to give multiple Immunities. Dungeon magazine is supposed to be official material, and common tactics in there for casters involve multiple castings of Resist Energy, which uses the same wording - so if immunity didn't work, those wouldn't either. And then there is the question of whether you could wear two resistance or immunity rings, or even make a ring of universal energy resistance/immunity. As for why a caster doesn't walk around with 5 of them every day - that is 5 6th level spells. If they have nothing better to do with them, good luck. For a PC party, they just can't afford to cast 20 spells for that every day. They have other things they want to do. I actually think Energy Immunity should be 7th not 6th level, and technically the existence of that spell makes the cost of a Ring of Universal Energy Immunity go way down. But if you allow the spell, there is no reason not to allow it to be active multiple times against multiple energy types. ROB
Aracor 04-21-07, 02:04 PM	NEVER have multiple balors fighting in the same general area, unless you want some comic relief. It happened in our epic game (we were all around level 26-28); and we had about 5 regular balors and 5 advanced balors in the same room. Four Words: Exploding Balor Chain Reaction. After it happened, we laughed for almost 10 minutes and the DM said "Well, I guess we know why there aren't armies of balors anywhere else."
Senevri 04-21-07, 04:38 PM	...Good point. Points. Both of you.