Backlash Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Backlash Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
goro
05-10-07, 06:10 PM Can you have backlash damage affect other participants in an Epic spell ritual but not the caster?
bluemage55
05-10-07, 08:07 PM By the RAW no.

I also wouldn't be inclined to allow it. Summon a bunch of creatures you don't care about, have them contribute slots, max out the backlash for each of them on a permanent spell, and then dismiss them? No free cake please.
goro
05-10-07, 08:11 PM Damn, that was the exact plan.
bluemage55
05-10-07, 08:12 PM Damn, that was the exact plan.

If you are trying to abuse the system and think you know a way how, that's probably a sign that it's either not allowed or shouldn't be. ;)
goro
05-10-07, 08:17 PM I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and let my caster die with the rest of them.
NightBreeze
05-10-07, 08:31 PM And by the way, what monsters would you like to summon?
maybe I'm wrong, but spell-like abilities don't count as spells for the purpose of epic spell rituals.
goro
05-10-07, 08:33 PM Planetars cr 16

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12360808&postcount=752
NightBreeze
05-10-07, 09:56 PM Yeah, I understand now. I was just thinking about non-epic summoning ;)

Anyway, once you've got some planetars, everything is easy even without the backlash....just summon more and more and make a huge ritual.

Sure, when all those pesky good gods notice their servant vanishing, they may search them and make you a visit :D
goro
05-10-07, 10:11 PM I was creating the spell for "The Iron Siege." In that, I am the big bad good god.
NightBreeze
05-10-07, 10:36 PM Lol.

I suppose everuthing is ok then.

But virtually you could go on forever untill you run out of all the planetars, solars and astral devas on the Planes....that's what's somewhat broken.

At that point, just design an epic spell that can do anything, with no cost :)

Dunno if Witch is going to allow this...
goro
05-10-07, 10:53 PM Probably not. But it was a thought, massive gate, increbily large flying citadel on an island with a spellpool and permanent planar bubble around it. A total invasion of hell. Plus could use those summoned creatures to fuel an even larger summoning spell. 100+ CR 75 Rust dragons....
NightBreeze
05-10-07, 10:54 PM Oh, yeah...that would be....a majestic view :D
goro
05-10-07, 10:56 PM Plus the "Mass Temporal Stasis" to store my "fuel" when I don't need it.
goro
05-10-07, 10:57 PM I initially wanted to avoid backlash damage to my caster, but then I remebered 50d4 +5(min. CON mod) would ensure my casters survival.

Wrath of God
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC:
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Free Action
Range: 12,000 ft.
Target: 2,020 ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes
Factors: +29(Seed:Destroy) +160(Add 80d6 damage) +40(Increase damage die 4 steps) +28(ad-hoc maximize damage) +10(change from target to area, 20 ft radius) +400(Increase area 10,000%, 2,000 ft Radius) +28(Quickened spell), Mitigating Factors:
still working on this.
NightBreeze
05-10-07, 11:43 PM Good luck with the mitigating factors :P
bluemage55
05-11-07, 12:55 AM Keep in mind that massive mitigation by summoned creatures really is just another abuse of the poorly written rules. See my revision thread for a cap on mitigation from contributors.
Yodasatomicweed
05-11-07, 02:12 AM Is Witch going by your rules though? While your revisions might help balance some stuff out, not everyone uses them.
goro
05-11-07, 10:25 AM Contingent Wrath of God
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Free Action
Range: 12,000 ft.
Target: 2,020 ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 36,000 gp, 1,440 xp, 1 day Factors: +29(Seed:Destroy) +560(Add 180d6 damage) +40(Increase damage die 4 steps) +28(ad-hoc maximize damage) +10(change from target to area, 20 ft radius) +400(Increase area 10,000%, 2,000 ft Radius) +28(Quickened spell), +25(Contingency) +400(Increase Caster level for spell resistance 200 levels) +400(Increase caster level for dispel checks 200 levels) +400(Increase Saving throw DC 200) +2(No verbal component) +2(No somatic component) Mitigating Factors: -2295(135 casters contributing a 9th level spell slot)

4k damage per use. And could have still made it stronger.
Witch
05-11-07, 12:12 PM I'm fairly certain that I said you go into Dis with a party of 4 maximum. You're welcome to try and get said spells off when you're in there.

Furthermore, your attempted abuse of the Epic Spellcasting system goes beyond words. Refer to the Gates of Hell and the Epic Level Handbook for some examples of spells which stand a chance at being approved.
goro
05-11-07, 06:02 PM Lol, just a thought exercise. Not using these. I'm going in solo. And coming out the new ruler of the second layer.
Rikandur_Azebol
05-12-07, 10:20 AM Lol, just a thought exercise. Not using these. I'm going in solo. And coming out the new ruler of the second layer.

That's a lot of confidience my friend. :)

I propose that You should buy enough Rods of Excellent Magic to let as many of Your faithful servants as You can afford to cast spell. For example:

10 spellcasters created via some epix spell, each gets a rod from You. This amounts to -200 DC to ritual spell from XP burn mitigation. For "mere" 6 million gp. Thought worth considering if You want to use a lot of ritual casting.
goro
05-12-07, 10:50 AM If I were going for the grand strategy I wouldnt need any of those rods. I could create a permanent planar bubble around my god over a mile in radius. Then I could open a gate into dis, and bring my flying citadel onto the second layer. Incidentally, the flying citadel also has a planr bubble on it that encompasses 1-?? miles in radius. If I had centuries, which as a god, wouldnt be out of the realm of possiblities, I could easily defeat dispater. However, as I said, I'm going in solo, and stomping him into the iron ground.
Rikandur_Azebol
05-12-07, 11:23 AM Ok, no need to be angry. I was just "what if"-ing.
Good luck with stompy approach, Goro. So far I can see that King Kong approach by one of Challengers isn't giving results expected.
Bernat
05-12-07, 12:54 PM So far I can see that King Kong approach by one of Challengers isn't giving results expected.

That's what you get when they take your SLA's away :D.
goro
05-12-07, 12:57 PM Don't you have any agressive SDA's?
Bernat
05-12-07, 01:09 PM Yes, and I'm using them.
goro
05-12-07, 01:48 PM Have you got/tried Divine Blast? How about epic spells? I'm wondering if they work or not.
Bernat
05-12-07, 01:55 PM I removed epic spells from her character sheet because I didn't like what I was getting (I was looking for earth themed spells, like raising a mountain out of nothing). Divine blast is my most powerful tool, but I'm not giving up uses until I'm certain I'm targetting Dispater himself, and possibly after he has burned some/all of his iron courtains (name may be wrong, I'm talking about his special divine shield). However, I may try Divine Blast with the Iron Tower, at least once.
goro
05-12-07, 02:56 PM Darn, I really needed to know if epic level spells will work in dis.
fnord
05-13-07, 07:06 PM Darn, I really needed to know if epic level spells will work in dis.
They should, if they aren't [Evil]; the Violate spell enhancement part of his trick PROBABLY won't work on them.
goro
05-13-07, 07:28 PM Hope your right.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
goro 05-10-07, 06:10 PM	Can you have backlash damage affect other participants in an Epic spell ritual but not the caster?
bluemage55 05-10-07, 08:07 PM	By the RAW no. I also wouldn't be inclined to allow it. Summon a bunch of creatures you don't care about, have them contribute slots, max out the backlash for each of them on a permanent spell, and then dismiss them? No free cake please.
goro 05-10-07, 08:11 PM	Damn, that was the exact plan.
bluemage55 05-10-07, 08:12 PM	Damn, that was the exact plan. If you are trying to abuse the system and think you know a way how, that's probably a sign that it's either not allowed or shouldn't be. ;)
goro 05-10-07, 08:17 PM	I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and let my caster die with the rest of them.
NightBreeze 05-10-07, 08:31 PM	And by the way, what monsters would you like to summon? maybe I'm wrong, but spell-like abilities don't count as spells for the purpose of epic spell rituals.
goro 05-10-07, 08:33 PM	Planetars cr 16 http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12360808&postcount=752
NightBreeze 05-10-07, 09:56 PM	Yeah, I understand now. I was just thinking about non-epic summoning ;) Anyway, once you've got some planetars, everything is easy even without the backlash....just summon more and more and make a huge ritual. Sure, when all those pesky good gods notice their servant vanishing, they may search them and make you a visit :D
goro 05-10-07, 10:11 PM	I was creating the spell for "The Iron Siege." In that, I am the big bad good god.
NightBreeze 05-10-07, 10:36 PM	Lol. I suppose everuthing is ok then. But virtually you could go on forever untill you run out of all the planetars, solars and astral devas on the Planes....that's what's somewhat broken. At that point, just design an epic spell that can do anything, with no cost :) Dunno if Witch is going to allow this...
goro 05-10-07, 10:53 PM	Probably not. But it was a thought, massive gate, increbily large flying citadel on an island with a spellpool and permanent planar bubble around it. A total invasion of hell. Plus could use those summoned creatures to fuel an even larger summoning spell. 100+ CR 75 Rust dragons....
NightBreeze 05-10-07, 10:54 PM	Oh, yeah...that would be....a majestic view :D
goro 05-10-07, 10:56 PM	Plus the "Mass Temporal Stasis" to store my "fuel" when I don't need it.
goro 05-10-07, 10:57 PM	I initially wanted to avoid backlash damage to my caster, but then I remebered 50d4 +5(min. CON mod) would ensure my casters survival. Wrath of God Transmutation Spellcraft DC: Components: V, S Casting Time: Free Action Range: 12,000 ft. Target: 2,020 ft radius Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude half Spell Resistance: Yes Factors: +29(Seed:Destroy) +160(Add 80d6 damage) +40(Increase damage die 4 steps) +28(ad-hoc maximize damage) +10(change from target to area, 20 ft radius) +400(Increase area 10,000%, 2,000 ft Radius) +28(Quickened spell), Mitigating Factors: still working on this.
NightBreeze 05-10-07, 11:43 PM	Good luck with the mitigating factors :P
bluemage55 05-11-07, 12:55 AM	Keep in mind that massive mitigation by summoned creatures really is just another abuse of the poorly written rules. See my revision thread for a cap on mitigation from contributors.
Yodasatomicweed 05-11-07, 02:12 AM	Is Witch going by your rules though? While your revisions might help balance some stuff out, not everyone uses them.
goro 05-11-07, 10:25 AM	Contingent Wrath of God Transmutation Spellcraft DC: 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: Free Action Range: 12,000 ft. Target: 2,020 ft radius Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 36,000 gp, 1,440 xp, 1 day Factors: +29(Seed:Destroy) +560(Add 180d6 damage) +40(Increase damage die 4 steps) +28(ad-hoc maximize damage) +10(change from target to area, 20 ft radius) +400(Increase area 10,000%, 2,000 ft Radius) +28(Quickened spell), +25(Contingency) +400(Increase Caster level for spell resistance 200 levels) +400(Increase caster level for dispel checks 200 levels) +400(Increase Saving throw DC 200) +2(No verbal component) +2(No somatic component) Mitigating Factors: -2295(135 casters contributing a 9th level spell slot) 4k damage per use. And could have still made it stronger.
Witch 05-11-07, 12:12 PM	I'm fairly certain that I said you go into Dis with a party of 4 maximum. You're welcome to try and get said spells off when you're in there. Furthermore, your attempted abuse of the Epic Spellcasting system goes beyond words. Refer to the Gates of Hell and the Epic Level Handbook for some examples of spells which stand a chance at being approved.
goro 05-11-07, 06:02 PM	Lol, just a thought exercise. Not using these. I'm going in solo. And coming out the new ruler of the second layer.
Rikandur_Azebol 05-12-07, 10:20 AM	Lol, just a thought exercise. Not using these. I'm going in solo. And coming out the new ruler of the second layer. That's a lot of confidience my friend. :) I propose that You should buy enough Rods of Excellent Magic to let as many of Your faithful servants as You can afford to cast spell. For example: 10 spellcasters created via some epix spell, each gets a rod from You. This amounts to -200 DC to ritual spell from XP burn mitigation. For "mere" 6 million gp. Thought worth considering if You want to use a lot of ritual casting.
goro 05-12-07, 10:50 AM	If I were going for the grand strategy I wouldnt need any of those rods. I could create a permanent planar bubble around my god over a mile in radius. Then I could open a gate into dis, and bring my flying citadel onto the second layer. Incidentally, the flying citadel also has a planr bubble on it that encompasses 1-?? miles in radius. If I had centuries, which as a god, wouldnt be out of the realm of possiblities, I could easily defeat dispater. However, as I said, I'm going in solo, and stomping him into the iron ground.
Rikandur_Azebol 05-12-07, 11:23 AM	Ok, no need to be angry. I was just "what if"-ing. Good luck with stompy approach, Goro. So far I can see that King Kong approach by one of Challengers isn't giving results expected.
Bernat 05-12-07, 12:54 PM	So far I can see that King Kong approach by one of Challengers isn't giving results expected. That's what you get when they take your SLA's away :D.
goro 05-12-07, 12:57 PM	Don't you have any agressive SDA's?
Bernat 05-12-07, 01:09 PM	Yes, and I'm using them.
goro 05-12-07, 01:48 PM	Have you got/tried Divine Blast? How about epic spells? I'm wondering if they work or not.
Bernat 05-12-07, 01:55 PM	I removed epic spells from her character sheet because I didn't like what I was getting (I was looking for earth themed spells, like raising a mountain out of nothing). Divine blast is my most powerful tool, but I'm not giving up uses until I'm certain I'm targetting Dispater himself, and possibly after he has burned some/all of his iron courtains (name may be wrong, I'm talking about his special divine shield). However, I may try Divine Blast with the Iron Tower, at least once.
goro 05-12-07, 02:56 PM	Darn, I really needed to know if epic level spells will work in dis.
fnord 05-13-07, 07:06 PM	Darn, I really needed to know if epic level spells will work in dis. They should, if they aren't [Evil]; the Violate spell enhancement part of his trick PROBABLY won't work on them.
goro 05-13-07, 07:28 PM	Hope your right.