Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Naldor 01-05-08, 06:55 PM	I've been trying to develop something like Balefire from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series as an epic spell. I figure that as is, the DC is a little low for the effect it has. I'd appreciate any help in fine-tuning it into something playable, haven't had much luck searching for anything that really acts like balefire from the books. Thanks in advance for whatever help you folks can offer. Epic Spell: Balefire Spell craft DC: 116 Components: V,S Casting time: 1 Action Range: 1200 ft. Target: 1 creature Duration: Instantaneous and Concentration (See text) Saving throw: Reflex Negates Spell Resistance: No A beam of white-hot fire, brighter than the sun itself, streaks from the caster's outstretched finger, burning the target out of the pattern itself. The target is destroyed 10 days before the balefire destroys them, negating any actions taken in that period. Seeds: • Banish (DC 27) [Main Seed] • Destroy (DC 29) Factors: • Change to Reflex Save (+ 4 DC) • No damage on successful save (-20 DC) • Add temporal component to Banish (+8 DC) • Change to ray (300 ft range) (+4 DC) • Increase range by 400 % (+8 DC) • Change duration to concentration (max 5 rounds) (ad hoc +5 DC) • Eradicate target from space-time 10 days ago (+40 DC) • Target cannot be resurrected by ANY means (+10 DC) • Spell dazzles all within 300 ft. (+1 DC) • No spell Resistance possible (+20 DC) • 206 backlash as the space-time continuum becomes unraveled, resulting in unstable energies damaging the caster. (-20 DC)
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-05-08, 09:06 PM	If they're being banished, why add the Destroy seed? Also, what's a temporal component? The whole 'remove them beforehand' thing is hard to measure, since its usefulness varies. If the target is a random monster, it doesn't mean much. If it's the BBEG or an evil king, you may be somewhere else, unharmed, and many people or the world might still be going.
deadkoo 01-06-08, 06:39 PM	10 days is a long time...what about 1day and increase DC by say 10 or so per extra day?
Naldor 01-07-08, 01:14 AM	The Destroy seed was added because it didn't seem to make sense to have Transport alone be able to actually harm something. The "temporal component" was an ad-hoc addition from the Transport seed's alternate use to move you into a static time stream. Does this really not seem terribly overpowered for a DC 116 spell? What I'm kinda worried about is that it has no HD or HP limit, which doesn't make sense given the fluff about it. @deadkoo: You mean keep the +40 DC for the erasure component, but nerf it to one day? Sounds reasonable.
Witch 01-07-08, 06:19 AM	It's not that bad since you need to be level 103 to cast this due to the backlash. And at that level, nobody is going to fail the Reflex save.
BillTheManiac 01-07-08, 07:31 AM	It's not that bad since you need to be level 103 to cast this due to the backlash. And at that level, nobody is going to fail the Reflex save. You know he meant 20d6, not 206, right?
Witch 01-07-08, 08:17 AM	In that case, I'm wrong :) Still going to be a rather low save, though. Though, to be honest, I'm not sure about the temporal effect. Screwing around with time is always nasty, and I don't think the addition to DC warrants it yet.
Selgard 01-07-08, 09:22 AM	In the books, the time displacement effect (for lack of a better way to phrase it) IS the "detriment" to the effect. No one cared that you killed someone. You can do that with the power with Fire relatively easily. in D&D the time effect is, unfortunately, a "fluff" effect. As one of you said- a random monster, no one would care about whereas if it's the King or whatnot it would be a very big deal. For those reasons I would probably attempt to impose a mechanical disadvantage for greater and greater time periods destroyed. Use the "time mitigation" guildelines in reverse. Longer time destroyed, the higher the DC would be- with it being unique in that the caster can choose on the fly just how much time he wants to "destroy". With the increase in DC would also come an increase in backlash. I.e. the greater the "time" effect, the harder it is to cast and the more it takes out of the caster. This seems to put it more in line with "Power" effects. (as the bigger the bang, the more the drain on the caster, from the books). just a thought. edit: spelling, and PS: If you are the DM, (or the player), do remember that the guidelines are just guidelines. If you, the creator (or editor) of the spell think that the DC is too low- the rules allow you to simply raise it. This is not rule 0- this is literally a part of the Epic Spell creation rules, and is one not to be forgotten.
Yue Ryong 01-08-08, 08:18 AM	Wasn't Balefire a 7th level spell/weave/power/hippo/utterance in the WoTRPG? I always did like the variable spell levels thing...
Naldor 01-09-08, 11:19 AM	Yes, I did mean 20d6. ;) In the WoTRPG, it is an eigth level effect at the minimum. At that level, it has a range of 25 feet, and a 5-second backburn. The version that I'm trying to emulate here was 13th level, 1200-ft range, and 10-day backburn. In this case I am the DM, creating this for my PC (rotating DM during the World's Largest Dungeon), and I've never created an epic spell before, and neither has anyone else in my group. The DC seems kinda low because my PC will be able to make it at 21st level (+100 SC at 20th), and the "backburn" could resurrect a PC that the BBEG just killed. At level 21, I calculated that my Int is going to be 44, making this a DC 37 save. Looking through the Abominations as examples, only 2 of them have a high enough Reflex save to be immune to this spell. I really like Selgard's idea about making this spell variable at casting time. How does this sound? -10 DC, but lower the backburn effect to 1 minute, making the DC 106. For +20 DC (126) you increase the backburn to 1 day and backlash to 25d6, +5 DC and +1d6 backlash for each day beyond that. Also, is the ignore SR for only +20 DC too low? From a fluff perspective, nothing, not even the Forsaken's most powerful wards can block this spell, so allowing SR seems kinda silly. Yet given the guideline of +2 DC per +1 bonus vs. SR, this is kinda cheap. On the other hand, a succesful save completely negates the spell. I just don't have enought experience with epic spell creation to make that call. Also: -20 DC (ad hoc): 50% chance of summoning 2d4 Quaruts (Fiend Folio 102) who immediately attack the caster. +10 DC: +5 to saving throw DC. -5 DC (ad hoc): 3d6 backlash per round of concentration Final DC for research purposes: 91 May ditch the Quaruts and put the final DC at 111. Thank you to everyone who's posted, I really appreciate the help on my first foray into Epic Spell creation.
rob_douglas 01-11-08, 11:51 AM	The DC seems kinda low because my PC will be able to make it at 21st level (+100 SC at 20th), But to develop the spell, he still needs the gold, XP, and time. DC 116 costs 1,044,000gp, which is not affordable until 22nd level, if that is all he has. I suppose the group could pool their money for it.... XP cost however is 41,760. That's a pretty hefty chunk - requiring either not leveling for 2 levels worth of XPs, or some change to the RAW to allow you to use up past XP in research (possibly resulting in a negative level or level loss....). It does only take 21 days to research though. ROB