Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RealSorceror 03-28-07, 12:52 PM	I'll be playing a lvl 60 Tainted Sorceror (Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adv). 1). Since he adds his Taint score to his spell save DCs, they are pretty impressive, but will still be no problem for the monsters we will be facing. Whats a good way to increase the DC as an epic spellcaster? I use mostly necromancy and spells with the evil descriptor. 2). As a side question, I have four arms and the Multitasking feat, which means I can potentially cast a spell while attacking with a weapon. My class requires me to replace any spell components with either my own blood or someone elses (dealing hp damage). So I'm wondering if I can attack someone in melee and use their blood for the spell (all in the same round)? 3). Would taking Eschew Materials or Ignore Material Compenants enable me to ignore the blood component needed to cast Tainted Sorceror spells?
bluemage55 03-28-07, 02:53 PM	1). Since he adds his Taint score to his spell save DCs, they are pretty impressive, but will still be no problem for the monsters we will be facing. Whats a good way to increase the DC as an epic spellcaster? I use mostly necromancy and spells with the evil descriptor. Don't bother. It is impossible to raise your save DCs faster than a similar level character can raise their saving throws. Saving throws will always outpace save DCs at epic. If you want to use spells with saving throws, plan on bombarding the enemy until they get a natural 1. On a side note, necromancy is generally a terrible choice at epic. Your most effective spells are shut down by inexpensive items providing constant death ward and mind blank, leaving you with only the ability to utilize undead (which clerics are much better at than arcane casters). 2). As a side question, I have four arms and the Multitasking feat, which means I can potentially cast a spell while attacking with a weapon. My class requires me to replace any spell components with either my own blood or someone elses (dealing hp damage). So I'm wondering if I can attack someone in melee and use their blood for the spell (all in the same round)? You are incorrect. Spellcasting isn't based on how many hands you have. Casting a typical spell requires a standard action, which will prevent you from making an attack in the same round. 3). Would taking Eschew Materials or Ignore Material Compenants enable me to ignore the blood component needed to cast Tainted Sorceror spells? Yes.
NoldorForce 03-28-07, 03:29 PM	Gaining the Evil subtype will make you immune to the negative effects of taint. This allows for uncapped taint scores, though such might be worrisome to your DM (as it should be). Even if your DM doesn't allow that, getting hefty Constitution and Wisdom scores will help to increase your taint thresholds. Epic spells (which last days and grant hefty bonuses) are probably your best source for boosting them.
RealSorceror 03-28-07, 03:47 PM	Don't bother. It is impossible to raise your save DCs faster than a similar level character can raise their saving throws. Saving throws will always outpace save DCs at epic. If you want to use spells with saving throws, plan on bombarding the enemy until they get a natural 1. Damn. You are incorrect. Spellcasting isn't based on how many hands you have. Casting a typical spell requires a standard action, which will prevent you from making an attack in the same round. Normally yes, but I have the Multitasking feat (Savage Species). This more or less allows me to take multiple standard actions (or free actions), so long as I have enough hands to perform them. The feat gives specific examples, and one of these casting a spell (two hands) while also attcking with a weapon (the other hands). :)
RealSorceror 03-28-07, 03:51 PM	Gaining the Evil subtype will make you immune to the negative effects of taint. This allows for uncapped taint scores, though such might be worrisome to your DM (as it should be). I've taken a templete that causes me to stop gaining taint. My taint score is always equal to half my Charisma (not my CHA bonus) plus 1. Even if your DM doesn't allow that, getting hefty Constitution and Wisdom scores will help to increase your taint thresholds. Epic spells (which last days and grant hefty bonuses) are probably your best source for boosting them. My class lets me ignore the Con penalty while also only talking half the penalty to Wisdom. So ya, I could just increase my Cha.
NoldorForce 03-28-07, 05:04 PM	I've taken a templete that causes me to stop gaining taint. My taint score is always equal to half my Charisma (not my CHA bonus) plus 1.What is it? Something custom, or WotC material?
bluemage55 03-28-07, 05:04 PM	Normally yes, but I have the Multitasking feat (Savage Species). This more or less allows me to take multiple standard actions (or free actions), so long as I have enough hands to perform them. The feat gives specific examples, and one of these casting a spell (two hands) while also attcking with a weapon (the other hands). :) I overlooked that. In any case, Savage Species is 3.0, and Multitasking needs to be updated to 3.5. It actually allows you only to take partial actions, which no longer exist. Following the 3.0 -> 3.5 pattern of updating partial actions, the feat should not allow you to cast spells and do something else in a turn. More likely, a 3.5 rewrite would probably give you either an extra move action per pair of arms you use.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 05:11 PM	I'll be playing a lvl 60 Tainted Sorceror (Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adv). 1). Since he adds his Taint score to his spell save DCs, they are pretty impressive, but will still be no problem for the monsters we will be facing. Whats a good way to increase the DC as an epic spellcaster? I use mostly necromancy and spells with the evil descriptor. Fortify seed helps with massive buffs to your spellcasting stat assuming you can make the Spellcraft DC, take the Damage and XP hit. Also you can use the Leadership feat and maybe get a circle casting thing going. Also, prove to your DM that saves quickly out pace DC increases and the Permanent Fortify spell for increasing ability scores shouldn't have a cap, instead base it on level
bluemage55 03-28-07, 05:21 PM	Fortify seed helps with massive buffs to your spellcasting stat assuming you can make the Spellcraft DC, take the Damage and XP hit. Also you can use the Leadership feat and maybe get a circle casting thing going. Spells that deal backlash damage deal it every round, which makes it a stupid idea for buffs. Also, prove to your DM that saves quickly out pace DC increases and the Permanent Fortify spell for increasing ability scores shouldn't have a cap, instead base it on level Inherent bonuses cap at +5. Why do you think there should not be a cap?
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 05:30 PM	Spells that deal backlash damage deal it every round, which makes it a stupid idea for buffs. You're right, it's been so long since I looked at the EHB i tend to forget things that werent ported over in my modified system. Inherent bonuses cap at +5. Why do you think there should not be a cap? DC's get blown away by Saving throws in relatively short amounts of Time. Ability increases scale in epic at a horrid rate and removing the Cap and give it a continuing Increase would help alleviate some of this, as long as you keep a per so many level restrictions.
bluemage55 03-28-07, 05:55 PM	DC's get blown away by Saving throws in relatively short amounts of Time. Ability increases scale in epic at a horrid rate and removing the Cap and give it a continuing Increase would help alleviate some of this, as long as you keep a per so many level restrictions. No it won't. Your opponent can scale their relevant save DC just as quickly. Even if not, the x5 permanent multiplier means that the few paltry bonuses you get will not come close to the massive amounts that they are getting from resistance bonuses, luck bonuses, insight bonuses, competence bonuses, etc.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 08:34 PM	No it won't. Your opponent can scale their relevant save DC just as quickly. Even if not, the x5 permanent multiplier means that the few paltry bonuses you get will not come close to the massive amounts that they are getting from resistance bonuses, luck bonuses, insight bonuses, competence bonuses, etc. I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. You are saying the Spellcaster DC's scale just as good, if not quicker than Saving throw modifiers? I can easily put my Saving throw's way higher than a spellcaster of my level can get.
bluemage55 03-28-07, 08:38 PM	I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. You are saying the Spellcaster DC's scale just as good, if not quicker than Saving throw modifiers? I can easily put my Saving throw's way higher than a spellcaster of my level can get. Err, no. I'm saying that saves will scale faster than any way you can possibly boost save DCs. Furthermore, I'm saying that uncapping inherent bonuses will not change this in anyway.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 08:59 PM	Err, no. I'm saying that saves will scale faster than any way you can possibly boost save DCs. Ah, ok, we're in agreement here. Furthermore, I'm saying that uncapping inherent bonuses will not change this in anyway. It'll help Spellcaster's raise their Mental stats quicker (which, are well the only thing's that can cast epic spells), Int and Cha do not help save's out at all, wisdom on the other hand I can somewhat agree with. I just know it has helped alleviate some of the problem in my game. I also allow a special use of the fortify seed as a spell DC buff.
Elessar Lespin 03-28-07, 09:49 PM	Err... Rays ftw? Debuffing rays are awesome. Ray of enfeeblement. Ray of clumsiness. Ray of entropy. Take Rapid Metamagic from Complete Mage. Then take the vastly annoying Quicken Spell > Automatic Quicken Spell X3 feat chain. Then take a whole ton of stacking Improved Metamagic feats. Maximize, Twin, and Empower your rays. Scorching Ray is terrific for damage dealing. So is Firebrand. And the old Forcecage + Cloudkill combo. Don't even try to beat save DC's. I've gone down that unfortunate path. It ended in ruin.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 10:16 PM	I've never had much luck with the Debuffing thing. To many rods of absorbtion, Globes of invulnerability and whatnot. Basically, in epic games I've run, and games I've DMed, 5th level spells and below are used only for self buffing. Any kind of offensive use is completely negated through high level and epic countermeasures. Then again I tend to run high powered cheese fest games.
bluemage55 03-28-07, 10:33 PM	It'll help Spellcaster's raise their Mental stats quicker (which, are well the only thing's that can cast epic spells), Int and Cha do not help save's out at all, wisdom on the other hand I can somewhat agree with. The x5 modifier prevents this from ever making an impact. In addition, there is no reason why the other character cannot boost their relevant save modifiers in the same way. I just know it has helped alleviate some of the problem in my game. I also allow a special use of the fortify seed as a spell DC buff. It isn't a problem. Characters shouldn't be failing saves, because doing so means instant death.
bluemage55 03-28-07, 10:36 PM	Err... Rays ftw? Debuffing rays are awesome. Ray of enfeeblement. Ray of clumsiness. Ray of entropy. Take Rapid Metamagic from Complete Mage. Then take the vastly annoying Quicken Spell > Automatic Quicken Spell X3 feat chain. Then take a whole ton of stacking Improved Metamagic feats. Maximize, Twin, and Empower your rays. You can't maximize and empower the same spell. Scorching Ray is terrific for damage dealing. So is Firebrand. Except that a ring of universal energy immunity is standard gear. Exceptional deflection would also be highly entertaining. And the old Forcecage + Cloudkill combo. Which is stopped by a periapt of proof against poison effect, which has a negligible cost at epic. Don't even try to beat save DC's. I've gone down that unfortunate path. It ended in ruin. A better strategy is to avoid using offensive spells completely. Buff yourself and wade into melee. It works much better.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 10:45 PM	The x5 modifier prevents this from ever making an impact. In addition, there is no reason why the other character cannot boost their relevant save modifiers in the same way. x5 modifer to an ability score doesn't prevent much of anything in my experience. Melee characters and beings that cant cast epic spells cannot boost their saves to epic proportions like an epic spellcaster can. Once I hit epic, melee types are often put out to pasture because of the nature of epic spellcasting. Even before the modifications I made to it, epic spells that affected the environment, moreso than a target could kill just about anything. Increasing Save DC's meant that PC's could minimize Collateral damage to the environment and still affect a Target CR appropratly It isn't a problem. Characters shouldn't be failing saves, because doing so means instant death. Eh, depends. Most things in epic are either Immune, or Resistant to some form of necromancy or Death effect. You have to deal massive Damage just about every chance you get if you wish to hurt, though rarely outright kill, a target creature.
runestar 03-28-07, 11:05 PM	I remember hearing about a cancer mage+festering anger combo...:D
bluemage55 03-28-07, 11:22 PM	x5 modifer to an ability score doesn't prevent much of anything in my experience. Melee characters and beings that cant cast epic spells cannot boost their saves to epic proportions like an epic spellcaster can. They have buddies who can, or they die horribly anyway. Once I hit epic, melee types are often put out to pasture because of the nature of epic spellcasting. Even before the modifications I made to it, epic spells that affected the environment, moreso than a target could kill just about anything. If you're playing correctly, the melee types are the killing machines of the party. It's not hard to have your epic buffs affect your entire party instead of one individual. And guess what? The melee types, who started out better at melee than everyone else, become the most effective melee characters. As I have stated above, melee rules the day, which means that the melee characters are your key weapons. Eh, depends. Most things in epic are either Immune, or Resistant to some form of necromancy or Death effect. You have to deal massive Damage just about every chance you get if you wish to hurt, though rarely outright kill, a target creature. There is no way to reliably kill an opponent more effective than melee combat. You can be immune to just about every spell and magical attack form, but nothing stops a diving Dire Charge for a double damage on a full attack.
TheDarkLord 03-28-07, 11:33 PM	They have buddies who can, or they die horribly anyway. Assuming they spend the money on the Melee character. Epic spells are quite expensive to develope. A wizard doing nothing but Epic buffs on his party members is somewhat boring to play. If you're playing correctly, the melee types are the killing machines of the party. It's not hard to have your epic buffs affect your entire party instead of one individual. And guess what? The melee types, who started out better at melee than everyone else, become the most effective melee characters. As I have stated above, melee rules the day, which means that the melee characters are your key weapons. Depends. Most enemies at Epic level have intelligences above 20. Which means they are supra geniouses. They themselves will not enter melee, or engage in melee if they think they will have the holy smack down handed to them. Otherwise you are doing nothing but catering to the melee types. There is no way to reliably kill an opponent more effective than melee combat. You can be immune to just about every spell and magical attack form, but nothing stops a diving Dire Charge for a double damage on a full attack. You can create epic spells that Induce Planar Breaches at your DM's fiat. You can Effectively imprison, while not actually using the Imprison spell a creature and make it so he cannot escape. You can effectively be Immune to physical attack as well at Epic levels. Since I'm AFB right now, I'm not sure which seed would help you with this, but I remember creating a monster who was in effect, immune to physical damage using Epic rules. Melee types, without the aid of an epic spellcaster devoted to them, alah spending their money on buffs and magical Items, cannot be effective in Epic Combat. Creatures that Fly, DD, Teleport as free actions, and are ranged/melee monsters in their own right destroy your standard epic melee characters.
bluemage55 03-29-07, 12:00 AM	Assuming they spend the money on the Melee character. Epic spells are quite expensive to develope. A wizard doing nothing but Epic buffs on his party members is somewhat boring to play. As I said, it doesn't take much more to add a factor to every buff to make them affect the entire party. Depends. Most enemies at Epic level have intelligences above 20. Which means they are supra geniouses. They themselves will not enter melee, or engage in melee if they think they will have the holy smack down handed to them. Otherwise you are doing nothing but catering to the melee types. There isn't much you can do to stop a melee type with Dire Charge and Boots of Greater Teleport. They simply teleport into position and charge, all in the same round. You can create epic spells that Induce Planar Breaches at your DM's fiat. You can Effectively imprison, while not actually using the Imprison spell a creature and make it so he cannot escape. That would be outside of the scope of this discussion. DM fiat can also allow me to make a spell named "I Win" that gives me complete control of time and space. You can effectively be Immune to physical attack as well at Epic levels. Since I'm AFB right now, I'm not sure which seed would help you with this, but I remember creating a monster who was in effect, immune to physical damage using Epic rules. It may be possible with some unfair optimizing, like Pun-Pun. But without that, I very much doubt the possibility (aside from your DM fiat). Melee types, without the aid of an epic spellcaster devoted to them, alah spending their money on buffs and magical Items, cannot be effective in Epic Combat. Creatures that Fly, DD, Teleport as free actions, and are ranged/melee monsters in their own right destroy your standard epic melee characters. Melee types can get anything that isn't an epic spell from items. D&D is usually played using a party. While the best single character may be a spellcaster, an optimized party will make use of spellcasters to provide buffs, dispels, healing, and battlefield control so that the melee character and stealth character can win the day. Try pitting four optimized spellcasters against an optimized balanced party and the balanced party will win every time.
RealSorceror 03-29-07, 10:18 AM	What is it? Something custom, or WotC material? Its in the Oriental Adventures book. Its called "Akutenshi" or something to that effect. Makes you an evil Shadowlands bugger. The DM is allowing us to "go crazy", so its not really an issue.
RealSorceror 03-29-07, 10:21 AM	I overlooked that. In any case, Savage Species is 3.0, and Multitasking needs to be updated to 3.5. It actually allows you only to take partial actions, which no longer exist. Following the 3.0 -> 3.5 pattern of updating partial actions, the feat should not allow you to cast spells and do something else in a turn. More likely, a 3.5 rewrite would probably give you either an extra move action per pair of arms you use. Bugger. Oh well. If Eschew Materials will allow me to ignore the blood component, then this almost becomes a non-issue.
RealSorceror 03-29-07, 10:23 AM	Fortify seed helps with massive buffs to your spellcasting stat assuming you can make the Spellcraft DC, take the Damage and XP hit. Also you can use the Leadership feat and maybe get a circle casting thing going. Also, prove to your DM that saves quickly out pace DC increases and the Permanent Fortify spell for increasing ability scores shouldn't have a cap, instead base it on level I've already created a spell for the +5 inherent bonus, and I have Undead Leadership, so I could probably whip up a ritual spell.
ishihara 03-29-07, 10:26 AM	You can't maximize and empower the same spell. how comes the radiant servant of pelor can do this at lvl 10?
rob_douglas 03-29-07, 11:30 AM	Because Bluemage is mistaken. It is a specific allowed example in the PHB, under Maximize spell. An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result. Being that he is a well-respected sage around here, I assume he was sleep-deprived. ;) ROB
NoldorForce 03-29-07, 12:09 PM	Its in the Oriental Adventures book. Its called "Akutenshi" or something to that effect. Makes you an evil Shadowlands bugger. The DM is allowing us to "go crazy", so its not really an issue.I'd advise against it...partly because it forces a cap on your taint scores (which the Evil subtype doesn't seem to do), but also because you lose your Constitution score and any way to compensate for the hit point loss. You could likely replace it with something like Half-Fiend or Unholy Scion if you so chose.
bluemage55 03-29-07, 01:50 PM	Being that he is a well-respected sage around here, I assume he was sleep-deprived. ;) Hehe, I think I had a brain fart. :embarrass
RealSorceror 03-29-07, 01:54 PM	I'd advise against it...partly because it forces a cap on your taint scores (which the Evil subtype doesn't seem to do), but also because you lose your Constitution score and any way to compensate for the hit point loss. You could likely replace it with something like Half-Fiend or Unholy Scion if you so chose. Ya, I'll have to think about it. I was going to ask the 'ol DM if we could change the templete to make you an Outsider instead of an Undead.
DeathXI 03-30-07, 09:22 AM	Because Bluemage is mistaken. Bluemage....wrong? MY WORLD IS CRASHING DOWN! (Just kidding!)