Creating an avatar from scratch - help much appreciated! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating an avatar from scratch - help much appreciated! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WombleHunter
07-19-07, 10:01 AM Crossposted to both Deities and the Planes and Epic Level boards, since I'm not sure where would be best.

I'm helping my DM out by creating the statistics for an avatar that our characters are going to summon in-game. The SRD is very useful, but I can't seem to find a few rules that I'd like the answers to - if you guys could help me out, I'd be very grateful!

For the record, the god in question is a DvR 16 deity of the sun in a homebrew setting, with themes of light, fire, and warrior prowess. This means his avatar is a DvR 8 lesser deity equivalent. I can post other details if people want :).

Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD. Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting? Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains? Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls. Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA?

I think that's all I would really like help with at the moment. Help appreciated! :)
elondir
07-19-07, 10:57 AM 1. Read the SRD for a complete rundown of divine abilities.
2. Extra domain gives deities an extra domain to grant. All deities have three domains and require extra domain to grant more.
3. I don't know.
4. I don't know.
5. I think so, check the SRD.
6. I don't know.
Witch
07-19-07, 11:03 AM Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction?
Yes, no and yes, respectively.

What level are you, that you're summoning a DvR 8 god?
rob_douglas
07-19-07, 11:21 AM For the record, the god in question is a DvR 16 deity of the sun in a homebrew setting, with themes of light, fire, and warrior prowess. This means his avatar is a DvR 8 lesser deity equivalent. I can post other details if people want :).

Usually to make an avatar, you start with the full up god, and then knock it back down by 1/2 its divine rank. The SDAs that the avatar has are a subset of the regular god. His classes and hit dice are the same. If you want a weaker version, you can make any creature and make it a Divine Proxy and grant it an arbitrary number of divine ranks from the base deity.

Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction?

They are subject to dispelling, and Disjunction, but not AMF.

Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD.

As was noted, they get 3 domains to start for free (2 of them usually coming from alignment no less) and if they want more, they must take Extra Domain. So if you know a deity grants 5 domains, you have already required that he take Extra Domainx2.

Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting?

yes. It also gets to use all the domain abilities as many times per day as it has divine ranks, which is nice for Sun and Strength.

Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains?

Well, there is no real coverage of that in the SRD. None of the deities in D&DG use PrCs. I would rule that if the PrC grants a bonus domain, then the deity essentially gets Extra Domain for free as part of that.

Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls.

No. There is an SDA that allows it - Divine Weapon Specialization I believe. But not as a general rule.

Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA?

Assuming the Deity had the Fire portfolio, he would take Divine Fire Mastery. If he didn't then he might take Extra Energy Immunity (Fire). But no one would take both. Oh, and look at that, another example of gaining your DvR on damage... So there are other SDAs that might grant it too.

ROB
WombleHunter
07-19-07, 06:51 PM Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD. Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting? Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains? Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls. Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA?

2. Extra domain gives deities an extra domain to grant. All deities have three domains and require extra domain to grant more.Ah! I didn't see this in the SRD. I'll have to make some major revisions, I'll talk to the DM.

1. Yes, no and yes, respectively.Thanks! I couldn't find it in the divine abilities descriptions - is that just from the spell descriptions?

What level are you, that you're summoning a DvR 8 god?15th-17th. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be our *****; this is the cumulation of a string of divinations to find the ritual amongst the archives of the Church of the Sun and the commission of a magic item. I suppose it's more like a request that the avatar join us, for the righteous smiting of undead, really.

1. They are subject to dispelling, and Disjunction, but not AMF. Again, is this from the spell descriptions or is it specifically called out in the SRD? I must have missed it if so.
2. As was noted, they get 3 domains to start for free (2 of them usually coming from alignment no less) and if they want more, they must take Extra Domain. So if you know a deity grants 5 domains, you have already required that he take Extra Domainx2. Bah, there are too many domains for that! A DvR 16 deity with a large-ish portfolio would have to spend nearly all his SDAs on Extra Domain! ;)yes.Cool.
5. No. There is an SDA that allows it - Divine Weapon Specialization I believe. But not as a general rule.I suspected as much. :)
Witch
07-19-07, 07:16 PM Thanks! I couldn't find it in the divine abilities descriptions - is that just from the spell descriptions?
Correct. Deities have no special rules for such spells, except for the description of antimagic field, which gives an exception.

15th-17th. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be our *****; this is the cumulation of a string of divinations to find the ritual amongst the archives of the Church of the Sun and the commission of a magic item. I suppose it's more like a request that the avatar join us, for the righteous smiting of undead, really.
Might I suggest you use different divine rules? A 70 HD DvR8 being is going to be total overkill for what you're doing - your party will effectively be rendered useless. I'd suggest using the rules at this place: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12. Scroll down to "Avatars". It will render you a far more doable avatar, at 35 HD.
WombleHunter
07-19-07, 08:40 PM Might I suggest you use different divine rules? A 70 HD DvR8 being is going to be total overkill for what you're doing - your party will effectively be rendered useless. I'd suggest using the rules at this place: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12. Scroll down to "Avatars". It will render you a far more doable avatar, at 35 HD.
I think the DM is more likely to stick to WotC-published rules, TBH.

The undead army we're facing in this scenario is so large that the PCs are already effectively useless against it. I mean, I'm playing a Warmage, and if I emptied all my spell slots every day for a month on the numbers of undead we're facing, I wouldn't make a dent. There are literally millions of skeletons and zombies, and unknown thousands of ghouls, ghasts, and other mid-level undead - not to mention the dozens of high-level undead that are known to be in there somewhere.* The summoning of the avatar is something that is entirely the idea of the players and has been put into motion by the characters, so in that way it is the most effective we can really be, given the circumstances.

In short, we need overkill. Nothing else will cut it.

*You roll your eyes and ask why such an army hasn't taken over the world already? Well, that's what it's doing, right now. It's completely destroyed three countries and is on the border of a fourth and fifth.
BillTheManiac
07-19-07, 09:26 PM Person vs. Army is kind of messed up. If they have a chance of damaging you at all, they win. Shouldn't be too hard for the avatar to have enough DR to be immune to 90% of the army's attacks.

Give the avatar an epic spell to keep undead from melee range with it. Then all you have to do is annihilate the heck out of the undead. The hard part is keeping them from killing anyone else. To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round.
rob_douglas
07-20-07, 12:39 AM From the SRD on the spell Antimagic Field:

"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

There is no such line regarding Dispel or Disjunction, so they have no special immunity.

As far as the number of domains - have you seen other DvR16 deities - they all have 4-5 domains tops. You are right, taking on more domains will cost you a lot of SDAs. That is the point - gods don't own all the domains. They are limited. They can have extensive portfolios, but have to find a subset of domains that work.

Might I suggest the Positive Energy Aura Epic Feat for either the deity or a PC to help with just demolishing the army. Add in Wind Walk and you can slay thousands of undead per round, at really no danger to yourself.

ROB
archerpwr
07-20-07, 12:44 AM To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round.

Great Cleave + blood in the water ÷ giant size (assuming avatars arent already colosal)? Maybe with a side dish of sadism?
WombleHunter
07-20-07, 08:31 AM Person vs. Army is kind of messed up. If they have a chance of damaging you at all, they win. Shouldn't be too hard for the avatar to have enough DR to be immune to 90% of the army's attacks.

Give the avatar an epic spell to keep undead from melee range with it. Then all you have to do is annihilate the heck out of the undead. The hard part is keeping them from killing anyone else. To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round.It can be. This isn't a one-off fight though, it's a military campaign with the armies of humanity on our side. Epic magic is, sadly(?), out of the question.

From the SRD on the spell Antimagic Field:

"Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this."

There is no such line regarding Dispel or Disjunction, so they have no special immunity.

As far as the number of domains - have you seen other DvR16 deities - they all have 4-5 domains tops. You are right, taking on more domains will cost you a lot of SDAs. That is the point - gods don't own all the domains. They are limited. They can have extensive portfolios, but have to find a subset of domains that work.

Might I suggest the Positive Energy Aura Epic Feat for either the deity or a PC to help with just demolishing the army. Add in Wind Walk and you can slay thousands of undead per round, at really no danger to yourself.

ROBHe's already got Positive Energy Aura :D. And Divine Radiance. And possibly some kind of Permanent Emanation, just so he's got three auras that dust undead.

I'll talk to the DM and see what domains the avatar'll have.

Great Cleave + blood in the water ÷ giant size (assuming avatars arent already colosal)? Maybe with a side dish of sadism?Beleive me, combat power isn't a concern with this guy. (And since he does have the Alter Size SDA - what deity doesn't? - he can be anything from Fine to Colossal as a free action.)
BillTheManiac
07-20-07, 08:41 AM Or give him at-will quickened spell items and Multispell. 10 Quickened Chain Lightnings/round?

Colossal. Space 30, reach 30. 144+36pi. That should be enough. Man that would be awesome to watch. Does Whirlwind Attack work for that?
archerpwr
07-20-07, 03:19 PM Beleive me, combat power isn't a concern with this guy. (And since he does have the Alter Size SDA - what deity doesn't? - he can be anything from Fine to Colossal as a free action.)

Barbarian 1/ Fighter 4/ Frenzied Barbarian 10/Horizion Walker 1/ Crusader 4
Would be able to absolutely tear this army apart (assuming a ring of spell storing for giant size and sadism if you want to really accelerate the process). You don't even need a god.
WombleHunter
07-23-07, 08:45 AM Sure, until he runs into something he can't outgrapple and gets knocked out. Or Dimensional Anchor + Forcecage. Or falls unconscious from lack of sleep.

A single character that relies on personally killing each undead just isn't going to cut it.
archerpwr
07-23-07, 09:33 AM Sure, until he runs into something he can't outgrapple and gets knocked out. Or Dimensional Anchor + Forcecage. Or falls unconscious from lack of sleep.

A single character that relies on personally killing each undead just isn't going to cut it.

:pbbbtt:
Forcecage: doesn't work. Giant size makes him too big.
Grapple: when did grapple come into play? This guy just great cleaves and gets rediculus bonuses from blood in the water.
Sleep: in a single day he has to kill 200 per round. Shouldn't be too hard once blood in the water starts working.
WombleHunter
07-25-07, 08:07 AM :)

In any case, I'm not looking for alternative solutions. We're getting an avatar ;).

I have another question for you fine folks, though: how do divine Automatic Actions work? What purpose do they serve? In Faiths and Pantheons, the free actions so desegnated seem only to be skill checks; but AFAIK there's no point to doing so. What are Automatic Actions for in 3.5?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WombleHunter 07-19-07, 10:01 AM	Crossposted to both Deities and the Planes and Epic Level boards, since I'm not sure where would be best. I'm helping my DM out by creating the statistics for an avatar that our characters are going to summon in-game. The SRD is very useful, but I can't seem to find a few rules that I'd like the answers to - if you guys could help me out, I'd be very grateful! For the record, the god in question is a DvR 16 deity of the sun in a homebrew setting, with themes of light, fire, and warrior prowess. This means his avatar is a DvR 8 lesser deity equivalent. I can post other details if people want :). Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD. Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting? Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains? Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls. Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA? I think that's all I would really like help with at the moment. Help appreciated! :)
elondir 07-19-07, 10:57 AM	1. Read the SRD for a complete rundown of divine abilities. 2. Extra domain gives deities an extra domain to grant. All deities have three domains and require extra domain to grant more. 3. I don't know. 4. I don't know. 5. I think so, check the SRD. 6. I don't know.
Witch 07-19-07, 11:03 AM	Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Yes, no and yes, respectively. What level are you, that you're summoning a DvR 8 god?
rob_douglas 07-19-07, 11:21 AM	For the record, the god in question is a DvR 16 deity of the sun in a homebrew setting, with themes of light, fire, and warrior prowess. This means his avatar is a DvR 8 lesser deity equivalent. I can post other details if people want :). Usually to make an avatar, you start with the full up god, and then knock it back down by 1/2 its divine rank. The SDAs that the avatar has are a subset of the regular god. His classes and hit dice are the same. If you want a weaker version, you can make any creature and make it a Divine Proxy and grant it an arbitrary number of divine ranks from the base deity. Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? They are subject to dispelling, and Disjunction, but not AMF. Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD. As was noted, they get 3 domains to start for free (2 of them usually coming from alignment no less) and if they want more, they must take Extra Domain. So if you know a deity grants 5 domains, you have already required that he take Extra Domainx2. Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting? yes. It also gets to use all the domain abilities as many times per day as it has divine ranks, which is nice for Sun and Strength. Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains? Well, there is no real coverage of that in the SRD. None of the deities in D&DG use PrCs. I would rule that if the PrC grants a bonus domain, then the deity essentially gets Extra Domain for free as part of that. Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls. No. There is an SDA that allows it - Divine Weapon Specialization I believe. But not as a general rule. Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA? Assuming the Deity had the Fire portfolio, he would take Divine Fire Mastery. If he didn't then he might take Extra Energy Immunity (Fire). But no one would take both. Oh, and look at that, another example of gaining your DvR on damage... So there are other SDAs that might grant it too. ROB
WombleHunter 07-19-07, 06:51 PM	Are creatures with divine rank 1+, or their magic, subject to mortal effects like Dispel Magic, Antimagic Field, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction? Why would a deity ever need to take the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability (SDA)? Don't all deities have access to all domains that they grant? I couldn't find a default limit on the number of domains a deity can grant in the SRD. Does a deity with Cleric levels automatically treat all the domains it can grant as domains it has access to for the purpose of it's clerical domain spellcasting? Depending on the answer to the above, what about a deity who has levels in a class that grants bonus domains? Does a deity's DvR apply to damage rolls? It is stated that it applies to attack rolls, but I've seen only implications that it also applies to damage rolls. Assuming that both fit thematically, is there any reason a deity would take the Extra Immunity (Fire) SDA instead of the Divine Fire Mastery SDA? 2. Extra domain gives deities an extra domain to grant. All deities have three domains and require extra domain to grant more.Ah! I didn't see this in the SRD. I'll have to make some major revisions, I'll talk to the DM. 1. Yes, no and yes, respectively.Thanks! I couldn't find it in the divine abilities descriptions - is that just from the spell descriptions? What level are you, that you're summoning a DvR 8 god?15th-17th. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be our *****; this is the cumulation of a string of divinations to find the ritual amongst the archives of the Church of the Sun and the commission of a magic item. I suppose it's more like a request that the avatar join us, for the righteous smiting of undead, really. 1. They are subject to dispelling, and Disjunction, but not AMF. Again, is this from the spell descriptions or is it specifically called out in the SRD? I must have missed it if so. 2. As was noted, they get 3 domains to start for free (2 of them usually coming from alignment no less) and if they want more, they must take Extra Domain. So if you know a deity grants 5 domains, you have already required that he take Extra Domainx2. Bah, there are too many domains for that! A DvR 16 deity with a large-ish portfolio would have to spend nearly all his SDAs on Extra Domain! ;)yes.Cool. 5. No. There is an SDA that allows it - Divine Weapon Specialization I believe. But not as a general rule.I suspected as much. :)
Witch 07-19-07, 07:16 PM	Thanks! I couldn't find it in the divine abilities descriptions - is that just from the spell descriptions? Correct. Deities have no special rules for such spells, except for the description of antimagic field, which gives an exception. 15th-17th. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to be our *****; this is the cumulation of a string of divinations to find the ritual amongst the archives of the Church of the Sun and the commission of a magic item. I suppose it's more like a request that the avatar join us, for the righteous smiting of undead, really. Might I suggest you use different divine rules? A 70 HD DvR8 being is going to be total overkill for what you're doing - your party will effectively be rendered useless. I'd suggest using the rules at this place: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12. Scroll down to "Avatars". It will render you a far more doable avatar, at 35 HD.
WombleHunter 07-19-07, 08:40 PM	Might I suggest you use different divine rules? A 70 HD DvR8 being is going to be total overkill for what you're doing - your party will effectively be rendered useless. I'd suggest using the rules at this place: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12. Scroll down to "Avatars". It will render you a far more doable avatar, at 35 HD. I think the DM is more likely to stick to WotC-published rules, TBH. The undead army we're facing in this scenario is so large that the PCs are already effectively useless against it. I mean, I'm playing a Warmage, and if I emptied all my spell slots every day for a month on the numbers of undead we're facing, I wouldn't make a dent. There are literally millions of skeletons and zombies, and unknown thousands of ghouls, ghasts, and other mid-level undead - not to mention the dozens of high-level undead that are known to be in there somewhere.* The summoning of the avatar is something that is entirely the idea of the players and has been put into motion by the characters, so in that way it is the most effective we can really be, given the circumstances. In short, we need overkill. Nothing else will cut it. *You roll your eyes and ask why such an army hasn't taken over the world already? Well, that's what it's doing, right now. It's completely destroyed three countries and is on the border of a fourth and fifth.
BillTheManiac 07-19-07, 09:26 PM	Person vs. Army is kind of messed up. If they have a chance of damaging you at all, they win. Shouldn't be too hard for the avatar to have enough DR to be immune to 90% of the army's attacks. Give the avatar an epic spell to keep undead from melee range with it. Then all you have to do is annihilate the heck out of the undead. The hard part is keeping them from killing anyone else. To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round.
rob_douglas 07-20-07, 12:39 AM	From the SRD on the spell Antimagic Field: "Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this." There is no such line regarding Dispel or Disjunction, so they have no special immunity. As far as the number of domains - have you seen other DvR16 deities - they all have 4-5 domains tops. You are right, taking on more domains will cost you a lot of SDAs. That is the point - gods don't own all the domains. They are limited. They can have extensive portfolios, but have to find a subset of domains that work. Might I suggest the Positive Energy Aura Epic Feat for either the deity or a PC to help with just demolishing the army. Add in Wind Walk and you can slay thousands of undead per round, at really no danger to yourself. ROB
archerpwr 07-20-07, 12:44 AM	To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round. Great Cleave + blood in the water ÷ giant size (assuming avatars arent already colosal)? Maybe with a side dish of sadism?
WombleHunter 07-20-07, 08:31 AM	Person vs. Army is kind of messed up. If they have a chance of damaging you at all, they win. Shouldn't be too hard for the avatar to have enough DR to be immune to 90% of the army's attacks. Give the avatar an epic spell to keep undead from melee range with it. Then all you have to do is annihilate the heck out of the undead. The hard part is keeping them from killing anyone else. To wipe out the army in a day he needs to kill 200 of them/round.It can be. This isn't a one-off fight though, it's a military campaign with the armies of humanity on our side. Epic magic is, sadly(?), out of the question. From the SRD on the spell Antimagic Field: "Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this." There is no such line regarding Dispel or Disjunction, so they have no special immunity. As far as the number of domains - have you seen other DvR16 deities - they all have 4-5 domains tops. You are right, taking on more domains will cost you a lot of SDAs. That is the point - gods don't own all the domains. They are limited. They can have extensive portfolios, but have to find a subset of domains that work. Might I suggest the Positive Energy Aura Epic Feat for either the deity or a PC to help with just demolishing the army. Add in Wind Walk and you can slay thousands of undead per round, at really no danger to yourself. ROBHe's already got Positive Energy Aura :D. And Divine Radiance. And possibly some kind of Permanent Emanation, just so he's got three auras that dust undead. I'll talk to the DM and see what domains the avatar'll have. Great Cleave + blood in the water ÷ giant size (assuming avatars arent already colosal)? Maybe with a side dish of sadism?Beleive me, combat power isn't a concern with this guy. (And since he does have the Alter Size SDA - what deity doesn't? - he can be anything from Fine to Colossal as a free action.)
BillTheManiac 07-20-07, 08:41 AM	Or give him at-will quickened spell items and Multispell. 10 Quickened Chain Lightnings/round? Colossal. Space 30, reach 30. 144+36pi. That should be enough. Man that would be awesome to watch. Does Whirlwind Attack work for that?
archerpwr 07-20-07, 03:19 PM	Beleive me, combat power isn't a concern with this guy. (And since he does have the Alter Size SDA - what deity doesn't? - he can be anything from Fine to Colossal as a free action.) Barbarian 1/ Fighter 4/ Frenzied Barbarian 10/Horizion Walker 1/ Crusader 4 Would be able to absolutely tear this army apart (assuming a ring of spell storing for giant size and sadism if you want to really accelerate the process). You don't even need a god.
WombleHunter 07-23-07, 08:45 AM	Sure, until he runs into something he can't outgrapple and gets knocked out. Or Dimensional Anchor + Forcecage. Or falls unconscious from lack of sleep. A single character that relies on personally killing each undead just isn't going to cut it.
archerpwr 07-23-07, 09:33 AM	Sure, until he runs into something he can't outgrapple and gets knocked out. Or Dimensional Anchor + Forcecage. Or falls unconscious from lack of sleep. A single character that relies on personally killing each undead just isn't going to cut it. :pbbbtt: Forcecage: doesn't work. Giant size makes him too big. Grapple: when did grapple come into play? This guy just great cleaves and gets rediculus bonuses from blood in the water. Sleep: in a single day he has to kill 200 per round. Shouldn't be too hard once blood in the water starts working.
WombleHunter 07-25-07, 08:07 AM	:) In any case, I'm not looking for alternative solutions. We're getting an avatar ;). I have another question for you fine folks, though: how do divine Automatic Actions work? What purpose do they serve? In Faiths and Pantheons, the free actions so desegnated seem only to be skill checks; but AFAIK there's no point to doing so. What are Automatic Actions for in 3.5?