Creating An Epic Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating An Epic Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gemcaster
03-11-07, 04:49 AM What build would you reccomend for a near perfect epic necromancer (levels between 80 and 130)?
Archangel_Tyrael
03-11-07, 05:12 AM At those levels I'm surprised you even use dice anymore... At levels that high it's either "Don't roll a 1 and you hit" or "Roll a 20 or you miss". It's more roleplaying now than game. That's just my opinion. If you're having fun, don't let me stop you.

Wizard 20/Cleric 20/Dread Necromancer 20/True Necromancer 10/10-60 levels of other prestige classes.
Grandmaster_Kane
03-11-07, 12:22 PM At those levels I'm surprised you even use dice anymore... At levels that high it's either "Don't roll a 1 and you hit" or "Roll a 20 or you miss". It's more roleplaying now than game. That's just my opinion. If you're having fun, don't let me stop you.

Wizard 20/Cleric 20/Dread Necromancer 20/True Necromancer 10/10-60 levels of other prestige classes.

I was leaning more toward

Necormancer 20/ Dread Necromancer 20/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 20/ Horned harbringer 10/ Red wizard 10

or something like that
Witch
03-11-07, 12:38 PM That must be the crappiest build for a necromancer I've ever seen. Try Cleric 130 instead.
Lakaniss
03-11-07, 02:19 PM Wizard 3 , Cleric 3 , Mysthic Theurge 124 . . .
Witch
03-11-07, 02:26 PM That's caster level 70 for both, at level 130. Doesn't look so good ;)
Archangel_Tyrael
03-11-07, 05:02 PM That's caster level 70 for both, at level 130. Doesn't look so good ;)

You mean CL 127 for both?

Spells per Day

When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
Witch
03-11-07, 05:11 PM No, I mean CL 70 for both.

Spells

When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1.
bluemage55
03-11-07, 06:11 PM Read this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129

As a rule, don't play a wizard, true necromancer, or mystic theruge.

You are best off going pure cleric, or cleric/dread necromancer.
Monkeygod
03-11-07, 11:04 PM personally i think it depends on one's definition of the "perfect necromancer".

in a rather broken epic game, i have a 211 level necromancer who i would consider to be the perfect necro. he has both wizard and cleric levels and i'll explain why:

for pure undead creation and control, Cleric and Cleric PrCs are the way to go, so Veldrin has levels in Cleric, Master of the Shroud(master of shrouds?), True Necromancer and more.

however, for more death/fear/shadowy magics, thats all wizard, so Veldrin has plenty of wizard lvls, along with Pale Master(cool abilities), Archmage(SLAs), etc.

obviously Veldrin has a crapload more levels than what the OP is allowed to use, but a massive amount of his levels are in epic Wizard, along with Arcane Lord as he's evolved into a master of all magics as well as being an uber Necromancer.
Gemcaster
03-12-07, 04:59 AM Thanks for the reply's.
Grandmaster_Kane
03-17-07, 05:33 PM Necormancer 40/ Dread Necromancer 25/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 40/ Horned harbringer 10/

dunno sounded good in my head
Aluroon
03-17-07, 05:53 PM Necormancer 40/ Dread Necromancer 25/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 40/ Horned harbringer 10/

dunno sounded good in my head

Oh yeh, because Caster Level 50 is leet.

Once again you show you know absolutely nothing about epic levels.
Taeldrin Laesrash
03-17-07, 08:09 PM Grandmaster Kane's build isn't even legal with 2 arcane classes.

I'd go with Dread Necromancer 20/ Prestige Bard 15/ Pale Master 10/ Archmage 5/ Loremaster 30. Try to get Demilich in there.
Hieh
03-19-07, 01:47 PM Well, if you're willing to put off bonus Epic feats for a while, and areplaying in Forgotten Realms and willing to be a Female Drow Cleric of Kiaransalee, and are more into caster level than turning undead, there's THe Yathrinshee, a prestige class from the Forgotten Reams Player's Guide to Faerun.

Cleric (Kairansalee) 20/Dread Necromancer 20/The Yathrinshee 10/True Necromancer 14/Mystic Theurge10

Cleric CL: 44
Dread Necromancy Caster Level: 44
Caster Level for Necromancy School Spells: 94

(Math may be off)

and use the leftover levels to alternate between Cleric and Dread Necromancer for the bonus feats.
Taeldrin Laesrash
03-19-07, 06:31 PM CL 94 for Necromancy spells. CL 44 for all those precious clerical buffs and protections against monster with CL 100 spell-like abilities. I doubt it would last long.

I don't see why people get twenty levels of wizard and cleric or whatever. Your caster level will be shot. Focus on one good set of spells, I say. How about Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/True Necromancer 14/Cleric 50? An 80th-level character casting 76th-level Cleric spells, and having 26th-level Wizard casting as a side benefit.
Asharlin
03-20-07, 03:23 AM deleted.
Starmage21
03-20-07, 12:49 PM CL 94 for Necromancy spells. CL 44 for all those precious clerical buffs and protections against monster with CL 100 spell-like abilities. I doubt it would last long.

I don't see why people get twenty levels of wizard and cleric or whatever. Your caster level will be shot. Focus on one good set of spells, I say. How about Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/True Necromancer 14/Cleric 50? An 80th-level character casting 76th-level Cleric spells, and having 26th-level Wizard casting as a side benefit.

I like this build, then again Im in love with the True Necromancer.

I dont like the "official dual caster nerf" and some here dont either. You might convince your DM to let you run Wiz 3/Clr 3/True Necromacer everything else :D
spike81101
03-20-07, 04:36 PM I have a question for those of you who have played 21+ necro's. How good are they in comparison to other specialty casting classes? It seem that a majority of a Necro's power is nullified because most things are immune to death effects and energy drain. How should a high level Necro be played? All undead creation?
bluemage55
03-20-07, 08:01 PM I have a question for those of you who have played 21+ necro's. How good are they in comparison to other specialty casting classes? It seem that a majority of a Necro's power is nullified because most things are immune to death effects and energy drain. How should a high level Necro be played? All undead creation?

Basically all they can do better than a generalist wizard is create undead more effectively. In other words, it's a waste to be an epic necromancer.

And as I mentioned above, you shouldn't be a wizard if you want to be an effective necromancer, because cleric is just far better.
spike81101
03-21-07, 12:50 AM Basically all they can do better than a generalist wizard is create undead more effectively. In other words, it's a waste to be an epic necromancer.

And as I mentioned above, you shouldn't be a wizard if you want to be an effective necromancer, because cleric is just far better.I figured as much. I was able to successfully attack my epic party using a Necro NPC who dispelled any sort of deathward on the party before striking at them. I have a few ideas for feats on that as well.

@Gemcaster
So to not completely derail your thread, I would seriosuly suggest something to combat deathward/soulfire. Might I suggest creating a large ward against deathward so that all in your vicinity have their deathward suppressed. I would also suggest something in the way of custom necromancer feats to combat creatures that are naturally immune to necromancy effects. Perhaps a feat having negative energy cause 5 pts of damage (per neg level) if the target is immune to energy drain, or damage if the creature is immune to death effects, have it deal damage eqivialent to a disintegrate or similar effect.

Builds are all fine and good, but the meat of it basically comes down to how much good custom stuff you have at those levels. If you have a good DM (I'm assuming you do if you're playing at level 80) stuff like that shouldn't be a problem as long as you get the ok beforehand.

Happy Gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gemcaster 03-11-07, 04:49 AM	What build would you reccomend for a near perfect epic necromancer (levels between 80 and 130)?
Archangel_Tyrael 03-11-07, 05:12 AM	At those levels I'm surprised you even use dice anymore... At levels that high it's either "Don't roll a 1 and you hit" or "Roll a 20 or you miss". It's more roleplaying now than game. That's just my opinion. If you're having fun, don't let me stop you. Wizard 20/Cleric 20/Dread Necromancer 20/True Necromancer 10/10-60 levels of other prestige classes.
Grandmaster_Kane 03-11-07, 12:22 PM	At those levels I'm surprised you even use dice anymore... At levels that high it's either "Don't roll a 1 and you hit" or "Roll a 20 or you miss". It's more roleplaying now than game. That's just my opinion. If you're having fun, don't let me stop you. Wizard 20/Cleric 20/Dread Necromancer 20/True Necromancer 10/10-60 levels of other prestige classes. I was leaning more toward Necormancer 20/ Dread Necromancer 20/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 20/ Horned harbringer 10/ Red wizard 10 or something like that
Witch 03-11-07, 12:38 PM	That must be the crappiest build for a necromancer I've ever seen. Try Cleric 130 instead.
Lakaniss 03-11-07, 02:19 PM	Wizard 3 , Cleric 3 , Mysthic Theurge 124 . . .
Witch 03-11-07, 02:26 PM	That's caster level 70 for both, at level 130. Doesn't look so good ;)
Archangel_Tyrael 03-11-07, 05:02 PM	That's caster level 70 for both, at level 130. Doesn't look so good ;) You mean CL 127 for both? Spells per Day When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
Witch 03-11-07, 05:11 PM	No, I mean CL 70 for both. Spells When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1.
bluemage55 03-11-07, 06:11 PM	Read this: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=599129 As a rule, don't play a wizard, true necromancer, or mystic theruge. You are best off going pure cleric, or cleric/dread necromancer.
Monkeygod 03-11-07, 11:04 PM	personally i think it depends on one's definition of the "perfect necromancer". in a rather broken epic game, i have a 211 level necromancer who i would consider to be the perfect necro. he has both wizard and cleric levels and i'll explain why: for pure undead creation and control, Cleric and Cleric PrCs are the way to go, so Veldrin has levels in Cleric, Master of the Shroud(master of shrouds?), True Necromancer and more. however, for more death/fear/shadowy magics, thats all wizard, so Veldrin has plenty of wizard lvls, along with Pale Master(cool abilities), Archmage(SLAs), etc. obviously Veldrin has a crapload more levels than what the OP is allowed to use, but a massive amount of his levels are in epic Wizard, along with Arcane Lord as he's evolved into a master of all magics as well as being an uber Necromancer.
Gemcaster 03-12-07, 04:59 AM	Thanks for the reply's.
Grandmaster_Kane 03-17-07, 05:33 PM	Necormancer 40/ Dread Necromancer 25/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 40/ Horned harbringer 10/ dunno sounded good in my head
Aluroon 03-17-07, 05:53 PM	Necormancer 40/ Dread Necromancer 25/ True necromancer 10/ Cleric 40/ Horned harbringer 10/ dunno sounded good in my head Oh yeh, because Caster Level 50 is leet. Once again you show you know absolutely nothing about epic levels.
Taeldrin Laesrash 03-17-07, 08:09 PM	Grandmaster Kane's build isn't even legal with 2 arcane classes. I'd go with Dread Necromancer 20/ Prestige Bard 15/ Pale Master 10/ Archmage 5/ Loremaster 30. Try to get Demilich in there.
Hieh 03-19-07, 01:47 PM	Well, if you're willing to put off bonus Epic feats for a while, and areplaying in Forgotten Realms and willing to be a Female Drow Cleric of Kiaransalee, and are more into caster level than turning undead, there's THe Yathrinshee, a prestige class from the Forgotten Reams Player's Guide to Faerun. Cleric (Kairansalee) 20/Dread Necromancer 20/The Yathrinshee 10/True Necromancer 14/Mystic Theurge10 Cleric CL: 44 Dread Necromancy Caster Level: 44 Caster Level for Necromancy School Spells: 94 (Math may be off) and use the leftover levels to alternate between Cleric and Dread Necromancer for the bonus feats.
Taeldrin Laesrash 03-19-07, 06:31 PM	CL 94 for Necromancy spells. CL 44 for all those precious clerical buffs and protections against monster with CL 100 spell-like abilities. I doubt it would last long. I don't see why people get twenty levels of wizard and cleric or whatever. Your caster level will be shot. Focus on one good set of spells, I say. How about Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/True Necromancer 14/Cleric 50? An 80th-level character casting 76th-level Cleric spells, and having 26th-level Wizard casting as a side benefit.
Asharlin 03-20-07, 03:23 AM	deleted.
Starmage21 03-20-07, 12:49 PM	CL 94 for Necromancy spells. CL 44 for all those precious clerical buffs and protections against monster with CL 100 spell-like abilities. I doubt it would last long. I don't see why people get twenty levels of wizard and cleric or whatever. Your caster level will be shot. Focus on one good set of spells, I say. How about Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/True Necromancer 14/Cleric 50? An 80th-level character casting 76th-level Cleric spells, and having 26th-level Wizard casting as a side benefit. I like this build, then again Im in love with the True Necromancer. I dont like the "official dual caster nerf" and some here dont either. You might convince your DM to let you run Wiz 3/Clr 3/True Necromacer everything else :D
spike81101 03-20-07, 04:36 PM	I have a question for those of you who have played 21+ necro's. How good are they in comparison to other specialty casting classes? It seem that a majority of a Necro's power is nullified because most things are immune to death effects and energy drain. How should a high level Necro be played? All undead creation?
bluemage55 03-20-07, 08:01 PM	I have a question for those of you who have played 21+ necro's. How good are they in comparison to other specialty casting classes? It seem that a majority of a Necro's power is nullified because most things are immune to death effects and energy drain. How should a high level Necro be played? All undead creation? Basically all they can do better than a generalist wizard is create undead more effectively. In other words, it's a waste to be an epic necromancer. And as I mentioned above, you shouldn't be a wizard if you want to be an effective necromancer, because cleric is just far better.
spike81101 03-21-07, 12:50 AM	Basically all they can do better than a generalist wizard is create undead more effectively. In other words, it's a waste to be an epic necromancer. And as I mentioned above, you shouldn't be a wizard if you want to be an effective necromancer, because cleric is just far better.I figured as much. I was able to successfully attack my epic party using a Necro NPC who dispelled any sort of deathward on the party before striking at them. I have a few ideas for feats on that as well. @Gemcaster So to not completely derail your thread, I would seriosuly suggest something to combat deathward/soulfire. Might I suggest creating a large ward against deathward so that all in your vicinity have their deathward suppressed. I would also suggest something in the way of custom necromancer feats to combat creatures that are naturally immune to necromancy effects. Perhaps a feat having negative energy cause 5 pts of damage (per neg level) if the target is immune to energy drain, or damage if the creature is immune to death effects, have it deal damage eqivialent to a disintegrate or similar effect. Builds are all fine and good, but the meat of it basically comes down to how much good custom stuff you have at those levels. If you have a good DM (I'm assuming you do if you're playing at level 80) stuff like that shouldn't be a problem as long as you get the ok beforehand. Happy Gaming!