Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maddog0714 03-07-07, 01:28 PM	Would a weapon with the "Dread" ability, when making a critical strike, still make an oppenent make a save or be destroyed instantly, if the oppenent is wearing heavy plate armor of fortification? I know it would be considered a normal hit for damage purposes, but I'm not sure about the "Dread" ability?
Starmage21 03-07-07, 01:35 PM	Would a weapon with the "Dread" ability, when making a critical strike, still make an oppenent make a save or be destroyed instantly, if the oppenent is wearing heavy plate armor of fortification? I know it would be considered a normal hit for damage purposes, but I'm not sure about the "Dread" ability? Even if you cant crit, certain effects still go off. If you hit a golem with a weapon with an elemental burst, you still have to confirm for the burst to go off. If you have a vorpal sword and roll a 20, you still have to make a confirmation roll to cut off that vampire's head, even though he is immune to critical hits. etc...
maddog0714 03-07-07, 02:02 PM	I know the effect would happen on creatures immune to critical hits, but with armor of heavy fortification, the magical force rendered it a normal hit, so I guess my question would be: Was it ever considered a critical hit to begin with for any effects (Such as dread) to take effect?
Yodasatomicweed 03-07-07, 04:25 PM	Well, the wording for Fortification states that it negates the critical hit, not that the wearer is immune, so I interpret it as meaning that the critical hit cannot be confirmed, and cannot be scored. With creatures immune to criticals, you can still score a critical, they are just unaffected by it. Then again, this has been argued before. It could really go either way, depending on how you interpret the wording of Fortification. So to answer your question, I see it as never being a critical in the first place.
Starmage21 03-07-07, 05:10 PM	Well, the wording for Fortification states that it negates the critical hit, not that the wearer is immune, so I interpret it as meaning that the critical hit cannot be confirmed, and cannot be scored. With creatures immune to criticals, you can still score a critical, they are just unaffected by it. Then again, this has been argued before. It could really go either way, depending on how you interpret the wording of Fortification. So to answer your question, I see it as never being a critical in the first place. Here is the dread special quality: Dread: A dread weapon excels at attacking one type of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +4 better than its normal enhancement bonus. Further, it deals +4d6 points of bonus damage against the foe, and if it scores a successful critical hit against the foe, that creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 27) or be destroyed instantly and turned to dust. (This even affects creatures immune to critical hits or death magic.) To randomly determine a dread weapon’s designated foe, roll on the following table. Caster Level: 22nd; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, summon monster IX; Market Price: +7 bonus. It should just depend on how your DM wants to interpret it, but if it were me, I'd allow it to get past fortification in the same way Id allow burst weapons and vorpal to get past.
Yodasatomicweed 03-08-07, 12:11 AM	I don't allow Vorpal or Burst weapons to affect fortification, because I interpret it as the critical hit never being confirmed.
Roivas 03-08-07, 12:18 AM	I would rule the more powerful magical effect to go through, making people with full fortification still a little afriad of borpal weapons. The most costly or highest level power should negate a lower level power when the two collide. The exception being spells that are intended to negate higher level effects [such as death ward]. By using this interpetation of the rules a vorpal weapon can still cut off the head of a heavy fortification paladin, and a dread weapon will still slay it's ultimate foe. Another example would be the golem hammer from the DMG that kills contructs on successful critical hits. And yeah, now I'm repeating myself...
saucercrab 03-10-07, 03:15 PM	I don't allow Vorpal or Burst weapons to affect fortification, because I interpret it as the critical hit never being confirmed.I agree with this.
angryman 03-11-07, 05:08 AM	I don't like the idea of non-epic equipment or spells blanketly trumping epic abilities or spells. I wouldn't allow fortification to negate dread (though it would negate the critical damage) because that's too good for a +5 ability: it already negates crits.
bluemage55 03-11-07, 06:16 PM	Despite its wording, the intent for fortification is to function as immunity to critical hits for all intents and purposes. That means it stops sneak attack, Stunning Attack, and coup-de-grace, which do not function against creatures immune to critical hits despite not needing critical hits to confirm. On the flip side, energy burst weapons still burst (as per the 3.5 Main FAQ), vorpal weapons still function (it works on any creature affected by the loss of their head, even those immune to critical hits, e.g. vampires), and dread still functions (as it specifically states that it even affects creatures immune to critical hits).