Dm's Advice for an Epic Campaign. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dm's Advice for an Epic Campaign. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vikingr
07-23-07, 10:51 PM Hi all,
as i'm about to start a new campaign (epic one) for my players, I wanted to have some advice on what could be useful to know has a DM to make the game go foward and not crashing in oblivion. I'm not that familiar with epic game so any advice would be much appreciate.
Thanks in advance.
Taeldrin Laesrash
07-23-07, 11:16 PM Well, for starters, I agree with the ELH not to pull punches. You'll probably have powerful characters who can accomplish anything, so hit them hard (But reasonably). Also, I'd recommend to stress roleplaying, since Epic combat can be very tedious or obvious.
archerpwr
07-24-07, 12:52 AM Explain to the players how insane high level play can get (celerity nova bombs, hulking hurler, epic spellcasting) and ask them to keep things reasonable and to not abuse things. Self restraint by the players will be all that keeps epic from completely breaking.
rob_douglas
07-24-07, 10:42 AM Know the 8th and 9th level spells well, especially those that make for good traps, or last a long time. Most Epic characters can afford to have several of those spells active whenever they start a combat, so you should assume that for your NPCs.

Another thing to consider is - what level are the major players in your world? How do they keep from killing each other off? How do they interact with demon lords/archdevils/gods? And how do simple folk continue to live in your epic world? Who protects them, and from what? A devestation beetle could completely eliminate a non-epic country. You have to understand how epic creatures fit into your world, and why they haven't taken over - if they haven't.

And read the ELH on Running the Game. It has great advice on how to make opponents smarter, etc.

ROB
lavekkia
07-25-07, 05:11 PM Find the 2e book DM Options: High Level Characters
It has at least a chapter about handling high level characters and running an epic game.

Athing that the ELH reduced to a bunch of pages
rob_douglas
07-25-07, 05:39 PM I am pretty sure the 2E chapter is identical to the ELH chapter. I remember comparing them a few years ago. I have been meaning to recheck.

ROB
Archtyrant Terevoth
07-25-07, 06:23 PM I am pretty sure the 2E chapter is identical to the ELH chapter. I remember comparing them a few years ago. I have been meaning to recheck.

The ELH actually took a complete 180 compared to the 2E book.

The basic motto of the 2E book was not to inflate the numbers but to make the opponents more clever. The ELH is purely a book of number inflation and little else.
Starmage21
07-26-07, 03:25 AM Hi all,
as i'm about to start a new campaign (epic one) for my players, I wanted to have some advice on what could be useful to know has a DM to make the game go foward and not crashing in oblivion. I'm not that familiar with epic game so any advice would be much appreciate.
Thanks in advance.

Keep things reasonable, and definitely dont pull punches. Even if you kill a PC, they can afford to resurrect him with no level loss. Smart clerics who are resurrecting PCs one after the other will soon start taking the Ignore Material Components epic feat so they can cast True Resurrection for free :D

Never, ever, ever let your players have the paragon template. It was never meant for them, even moreso than the other templates youll find anywhere. It exists solely for the ability to "epic up" any creature from a monster-manual easily.

Always read epic spells thoroughly. Take them home with you after the session and read them between sessions.

Dont go to dicefreaks for crunchy stuff. Great NERPS, but they play the number-crunching game.
NinjaPenguin
07-26-07, 12:41 PM I've found, in my own epic games, that, at this level, the characters are setting the direction of the plot at least as much as the DM. They (should) have goals of their own and the power and will to strive for them, independent of the occasional huge threat to the world at large. Working with what your players want their characters to accomplish and designing encounters, adventures, even campaigns around those things is a good idea.

For example, one of my friends in an epic game, a Paladin, wanted to rule his own country, not really realizing the difficulty and depth involved in it. So our DM set up an adventure that would set him on the path through the first step towards his rulership. It was very memorable, since we weren't really doing anything 'scripted' for us, but forging our own path in the world.

Heh, I think we even payed some low level adventuring group to handle a few of the more tedious details for us in a couple missions. :P
Aluroon
07-26-07, 02:59 PM -Withdrawn per Request-
Witch
07-26-07, 03:13 PM Dont go to dicefreaks for crunchy stuff. Great NERPS, but they play the number-crunching game.

Could you explain that statement?
Possibly point out its relevance for the topic at hand, as well?
Starmage21
07-26-07, 03:41 PM Could you explain that statement?
Possibly point out its relevance for the topic at hand, as well?

Its support for my "keep it reasonable" statement. I believe Dicefreaks takes the numbers to unreasonable levels.

NERPS(Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff) is great though. I especially liked their write-ups on the Dark Eight.
Witch
07-26-07, 03:45 PM The thing I find odd is that you seem to rather like our flavor write-ups (which, to us, is always the foundation of everything we create), and call us "number-crunchers " at the same time. While your dislike for higher levels is understandable (many people share it), there is no need to make it seem as though all we do is care about numbers, because such would simply not be accurate.
I would also protest on your calling the write-ups of the Dark Eight "Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff", as I believe that backgrounds are far more essential to roleplaying than statistics.
Starmage21
07-26-07, 04:05 PM The thing I find odd is that you seem to rather like our flavor write-ups (which, to us, is always the foundation of everything we create), and call us "number-crunchers " at the same time. While your dislike for higher levels is understandable (many people share it), there is no need to make it seem as though all we do is care about numbers, because such would simply not be accurate.
I would also protest on your calling the write-ups of the Dark Eight "Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff", as I believe that backgrounds are far more essential to roleplaying than statistics.

I didnt make it seem as if all you care about is numbers. Thats you getting defensive about it.

Didnt I just say "their nerps stuff is great"? If you dont like NERPS I guess we can call it fluff, but its the same thing.

*edit*
Also, see my sig
Witch
07-26-07, 04:09 PM Calling people number-crunchers tends to give the impression that you do think so - especially when people have no clue what NERPS means. I had never heard the term before.
Droidarr
08-13-07, 12:39 PM Hmm.. Best advise for an Epic Campaign is FORGET the word Epic! Our group has been playing on and off since 1980 and the word EPIC causes people to to immediatly freak out (we've split the groups calling them the high levels and the peons). Best advise I've found on this page is that the players and GM must cooperate to keep things tame because it can get way out of hand, way to fast (and I'm not just talking about 20 + level characters). Most will be pretty cool with this but you will always have the rule raper who wants the.. half demon, dragon god spawn.. always have evasion and ... Just have fun and try to create a "grand overview". Most of the players will have their own goals and normally get into way more trouble on their own than any encounter you can plan for them anyway.
As far as epic spells and such.. unless you just give them the stuff for free, its going to take a while for them to learn/research them and try having a couple of mock combat drills to see what will work and what needs nerfed to make play better for everyone. Each campaign is different and one player might love rolling tons of dice that scatter all over while another doesn't. Personally, our group hasn't converted our orig characters over because we don't like 3.5, however since we have gotten new players we have converted the "medium levels" and "junk levels" over. LOL, just kill the "powergamers" which make the game unplayable and not fun for everyone else ;)

Biggest thing is HAVE FUN! :cool: It doesn't have to be perfect and everyone is an armchair quarterback. J

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vikingr 07-23-07, 10:51 PM	Hi all, as i'm about to start a new campaign (epic one) for my players, I wanted to have some advice on what could be useful to know has a DM to make the game go foward and not crashing in oblivion. I'm not that familiar with epic game so any advice would be much appreciate. Thanks in advance.
Taeldrin Laesrash 07-23-07, 11:16 PM	Well, for starters, I agree with the ELH not to pull punches. You'll probably have powerful characters who can accomplish anything, so hit them hard (But reasonably). Also, I'd recommend to stress roleplaying, since Epic combat can be very tedious or obvious.
archerpwr 07-24-07, 12:52 AM	Explain to the players how insane high level play can get (celerity nova bombs, hulking hurler, epic spellcasting) and ask them to keep things reasonable and to not abuse things. Self restraint by the players will be all that keeps epic from completely breaking.
rob_douglas 07-24-07, 10:42 AM	Know the 8th and 9th level spells well, especially those that make for good traps, or last a long time. Most Epic characters can afford to have several of those spells active whenever they start a combat, so you should assume that for your NPCs. Another thing to consider is - what level are the major players in your world? How do they keep from killing each other off? How do they interact with demon lords/archdevils/gods? And how do simple folk continue to live in your epic world? Who protects them, and from what? A devestation beetle could completely eliminate a non-epic country. You have to understand how epic creatures fit into your world, and why they haven't taken over - if they haven't. And read the ELH on Running the Game. It has great advice on how to make opponents smarter, etc. ROB
lavekkia 07-25-07, 05:11 PM	Find the 2e book DM Options: High Level Characters It has at least a chapter about handling high level characters and running an epic game. Athing that the ELH reduced to a bunch of pages
rob_douglas 07-25-07, 05:39 PM	I am pretty sure the 2E chapter is identical to the ELH chapter. I remember comparing them a few years ago. I have been meaning to recheck. ROB
Archtyrant Terevoth 07-25-07, 06:23 PM	I am pretty sure the 2E chapter is identical to the ELH chapter. I remember comparing them a few years ago. I have been meaning to recheck. The ELH actually took a complete 180 compared to the 2E book. The basic motto of the 2E book was not to inflate the numbers but to make the opponents more clever. The ELH is purely a book of number inflation and little else.
Starmage21 07-26-07, 03:25 AM	Hi all, as i'm about to start a new campaign (epic one) for my players, I wanted to have some advice on what could be useful to know has a DM to make the game go foward and not crashing in oblivion. I'm not that familiar with epic game so any advice would be much appreciate. Thanks in advance. Keep things reasonable, and definitely dont pull punches. Even if you kill a PC, they can afford to resurrect him with no level loss. Smart clerics who are resurrecting PCs one after the other will soon start taking the Ignore Material Components epic feat so they can cast True Resurrection for free :D Never, ever, ever let your players have the paragon template. It was never meant for them, even moreso than the other templates youll find anywhere. It exists solely for the ability to "epic up" any creature from a monster-manual easily. Always read epic spells thoroughly. Take them home with you after the session and read them between sessions. Dont go to dicefreaks for crunchy stuff. Great NERPS, but they play the number-crunching game.
NinjaPenguin 07-26-07, 12:41 PM	I've found, in my own epic games, that, at this level, the characters are setting the direction of the plot at least as much as the DM. They (should) have goals of their own and the power and will to strive for them, independent of the occasional huge threat to the world at large. Working with what your players want their characters to accomplish and designing encounters, adventures, even campaigns around those things is a good idea. For example, one of my friends in an epic game, a Paladin, wanted to rule his own country, not really realizing the difficulty and depth involved in it. So our DM set up an adventure that would set him on the path through the first step towards his rulership. It was very memorable, since we weren't really doing anything 'scripted' for us, but forging our own path in the world. Heh, I think we even payed some low level adventuring group to handle a few of the more tedious details for us in a couple missions. :P
Aluroon 07-26-07, 02:59 PM	-Withdrawn per Request-
Witch 07-26-07, 03:13 PM	Dont go to dicefreaks for crunchy stuff. Great NERPS, but they play the number-crunching game. Could you explain that statement? Possibly point out its relevance for the topic at hand, as well?
Starmage21 07-26-07, 03:41 PM	Could you explain that statement? Possibly point out its relevance for the topic at hand, as well? Its support for my "keep it reasonable" statement. I believe Dicefreaks takes the numbers to unreasonable levels. NERPS(Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff) is great though. I especially liked their write-ups on the Dark Eight.
Witch 07-26-07, 03:45 PM	The thing I find odd is that you seem to rather like our flavor write-ups (which, to us, is always the foundation of everything we create), and call us "number-crunchers " at the same time. While your dislike for higher levels is understandable (many people share it), there is no need to make it seem as though all we do is care about numbers, because such would simply not be accurate. I would also protest on your calling the write-ups of the Dark Eight "Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff", as I believe that backgrounds are far more essential to roleplaying than statistics.
Starmage21 07-26-07, 04:05 PM	The thing I find odd is that you seem to rather like our flavor write-ups (which, to us, is always the foundation of everything we create), and call us "number-crunchers " at the same time. While your dislike for higher levels is understandable (many people share it), there is no need to make it seem as though all we do is care about numbers, because such would simply not be accurate. I would also protest on your calling the write-ups of the Dark Eight "Non-Essential Role-Play Stuff", as I believe that backgrounds are far more essential to roleplaying than statistics. I didnt make it seem as if all you care about is numbers. Thats you getting defensive about it. Didnt I just say "their nerps stuff is great"? If you dont like NERPS I guess we can call it fluff, but its the same thing. edit Also, see my sig
Witch 07-26-07, 04:09 PM	Calling people number-crunchers tends to give the impression that you do think so - especially when people have no clue what NERPS means. I had never heard the term before.
Droidarr 08-13-07, 12:39 PM	Hmm.. Best advise for an Epic Campaign is FORGET the word Epic! Our group has been playing on and off since 1980 and the word EPIC causes people to to immediatly freak out (we've split the groups calling them the high levels and the peons). Best advise I've found on this page is that the players and GM must cooperate to keep things tame because it can get way out of hand, way to fast (and I'm not just talking about 20 + level characters). Most will be pretty cool with this but you will always have the rule raper who wants the.. half demon, dragon god spawn.. always have evasion and ... Just have fun and try to create a "grand overview". Most of the players will have their own goals and normally get into way more trouble on their own than any encounter you can plan for them anyway. As far as epic spells and such.. unless you just give them the stuff for free, its going to take a while for them to learn/research them and try having a couple of mock combat drills to see what will work and what needs nerfed to make play better for everyone. Each campaign is different and one player might love rolling tons of dice that scatter all over while another doesn't. Personally, our group hasn't converted our orig characters over because we don't like 3.5, however since we have gotten new players we have converted the "medium levels" and "junk levels" over. LOL, just kill the "powergamers" which make the game unplayable and not fun for everyone else ;) Biggest thing is HAVE FUN! :cool: It doesn't have to be perfect and everyone is an armchair quarterback. J