Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daebereth 06-05-07, 05:56 AM	So.... Our dm has decided that we'll start our dual campaign (two opposing running at the same time, will meet up later) by a battle between the gods of either sides, winner determines... something important. Now, all we have to do is roll up level 60 characters :eek: (in my case, an archangel, as we're playing 'christians', vs 4 members of the asgard pantheon, including Thor, Freyja, one of the sea-gods and a currently unknown.) One of our archangels is pretty much an epic spellcaster, and we're thinking juggernaut for another, but for the remainding two, there aren't any set ideas. Help, anybody? (archangels race: human, but with wings and automatic fly speed/ability perfect. weapon of choice, flaming swords.) edit: Asgardians will be rolled up from scratch as well, not using the stats given, because of the divine levels... no-one wanted to deal with those, or the "automatic 20 every hit, just roll to confirm crit."
Johnny_Angel 06-05-07, 06:10 AM	A 60th level bard could be pretty BA. Just make sure you take the epic feat that allows you to effect creatures that are immune to mind effects. I think it's actually called "music of the gods" or something like that. If power is what you're after, I'm sure you could fit quite a few bard PrCs into 60 levels. Bard + Seeker of The Song is a good start dump as many skill points as you can into your perform check So, let's see....spellcaster, fighter/melee Juggernaut type What about a character focused on ranged attacks? Perhaps a ranger?
Krispieman 06-05-07, 05:04 PM	If you're going for archangels and a holy theme, I suggest (ab)using the Book of Exalted Deeds as much as possible. Several Prestige Classes to consider (for various characters): Celestial Mystic - Can cast "Archon" spells, immune to death spells & effects, Fast Healing 2 in 10' rad. Exalted Arcanist - Sanctified spells among spells known. Fist of Raziel - Forget Paladin levels, use cleric and this. Multiple classes - Divine Grace at or near 2nd level. Sanctified spells are your friend. They are all ridiculously powerful and the "drawback" is very easily solved. The Soulfire armor enhancement is almost a must have - Immunity to death and negative energy at the cost of a +4. a Retributive Amulet is every tanks friend. +2 sacred to AC and half of the damage dealt to you is deflected back to the aggressor. If your DM allows it, the Saint Template also offers some niceties, such as: Insight bonus to AC equal to Wisdom mod. +2 on the DC of every spell and spell-like, supernatural or extraordinary ability. Fast Healing 10. Magic Circle against Evil and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability permanently in effect. But aside from the BoED, I'd think both Complete Divine and Complete Champion could offer a lot that fits with your archangels theme, while still packing a powerful punch. I'll leave this up to yourself to find, but one PrC from CC is worth mentioning: The Ordained Champion - Level 2, smite, but based on Turning and vs. anything.. very abusable (hello nightstick?) K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-06-07, 07:50 AM	If you're going for archangels and a holy theme, I suggest (ab)using the Book of Exalted Deeds as much as possible. Several Prestige Classes to consider (for various characters): Celestial Mystic - Can cast "Archon" spells, immune to death spells & effects, Fast Healing 2 in 10' rad. Exalted Arcanist - Sanctified spells among spells known. Fist of Raziel - Forget Paladin levels, use cleric and this. Multiple classes - Divine Grace at or near 2nd level. Sanctified spells are your friend. They are all ridiculously powerful and the "drawback" is very easily solved. We have been flipping through BoED.... although in a strange twist, we archangels are considered "evil" in this world, having invaded it. Pretty much anything we can justify flies though. Fist of Raziel.... awesome, we've been tossing up between 60 levels of paladin or a cleric/warpriest/epic warpriest for our buffer/healer. And, silly me.... what is this nightstick you speak of? Edit: the evil thing only came to our attention between original post and reading these.
Daebereth 06-06-07, 07:54 AM	So, let's see....spellcaster, fighter/melee Juggernaut type What about a character focused on ranged attacks? Perhaps a ranger? You'd think that with the ability to hover, we would have looked into ranged attacks other than what our sorcerer can cast, wouldn't you? :rolleyes: Thanks for reminding me. And when I said juggernaut, we actually had it confused with the Legendary Dreadnought. Sorry about that and... is this epic class worth our while?
Krispieman 06-06-07, 10:32 AM	And, silly me.... what is this nightstick you speak of?It's from Libris Mortis: a simple stick that allows for an extra 4 turn undead attempts per day for only 7.500gp. Just for fun's sake, I did some work today and give you this: (The main focus was Turning level + Spellcasting) Human (or whatever race you use) Saint: Cleric 46/ Celestial Mystic 5/ Ordained Champion 2/ Sacred Exorcist 5. Starting Stats: Str 10, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14 After Template, levels, and some EQ: Str 10, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 44, Cha 37 Important feats: Divine Energy Focus, Improved Turning, Sacred Vow, Servant of the Heavens, Vow of Abstinence Epic Feats: Great Smiting (x7) Empty Feats: 2 (-1 of human bonus feat didn't count) Empty Epic Feats: 14 Important Equipment: Phylactery of Undead Turning, Rod of Restless Dead, Sacred Armor, Sacred Shield. (Headband of Wisdom +12, Cloak of Charisma +12, +5 inherent book to both wisdom and charisma) Cash left to spend: +/- 105.084.000gp Offers: Divine Caster level 56, Turning Level 68. Thanks to Great Smiting and the Ordained Champion's Smite ability, you should be able to smite at least 19 times a day for +13 to hit and +544 damage. I'll figure out some more later, but thought I'd share this now. K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-06-07, 11:40 AM	You are awesome. :bow: We were playing around with a paladin 5/fist of raziel 10 (thanks so much for putting us onto it)/cleric 20/epic fist of raziel 25 (using the progression you happened to do here http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12123047&postcount=2) so that while we have a smiter, we'll also have a buffer/healer. Some quickened, ranged heal and buff spells (perfect fly speed = hover :plotting:) Looking at that one though.... it will be a long hard though about this. Thank the gods we have about a month to build these things. We also asked the DM, who is okay with us using anything from BoED and changing alignment, ie pre-req for Fist to LE, and smite good to smite heathen. *wanders off to go and look at the new classes*
skywyze 06-06-07, 11:58 AM	Look into the Intuitive Strike feat if you're going with the saint template or a high-Wis race. It allows you to use wisdom to hit your enemies instead of strength/dex. I'd also look into epic spellcasting. By level 60, you would have so much money to burn that it could actually be doable without cheating (i.e. leadership).
Daebereth 06-06-07, 12:21 PM	I'd also look into epic spellcasting. By level 60, you would have so much money to burn that it could actually be doable without cheating (i.e. leadership). We are having a level 60 arcane caster. I'm not sure exactly what he's doing now, but there was some incantatrix (FR) in there originally (approved by the DM) Improved initiative, timestop and some ridiculous amounts of fireball damage was his plan, and then Tenser's Transformation before leaping into the fray. Money was something like 10 million gp? This is after we told the DM that the original plan of infinite gold was a bad, bad, bad idea. There's only so many properties you should be able to attach to a weapon. And, I forgot to mention (because I do that alot) that its a strictly 4 on 4 fight, no familiars, animal companions, special mounts, cohorts or anything like that. Anyone taking more than 5 paladin levels is already taking the Charging Smite class feat to replace Special Mount, out of the PHB2 variants.
Krispieman 06-06-07, 06:36 PM	If you're going for a Smiter/Buffer, you're better off with my build. It only "loses" 5 levels for Smiting (instead of 20) and only 2 for casting (instead of 5). Plus a Paladin 5/FoR10/Cleric20/FoR25 means you're "wasting" 10 lvls of FoR on Paladin casting, instead of cleric. Plus with all the leftover feats in my build, you can stick in Epic Spellcasting and a load of Divine feats, or whatever's your fancy. I'll take a look at it some more, for additional tweaks. But if there's anything else you require just holler and I'll take a look. I like this theme ;) K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-07-07, 05:04 AM	I've looked at the Saint template, and I *do* like it... and the DM approves. Now, all I have to do is hope the other side doesn't try a dismissal. Trust my luck... :rolleyes: I'm going to have to go searching for the Ordained Champion, not having the book, might have to swing by tactics and rifle through it and take discreet notes. Then buy new dice, just because I'm there, and dice are cheaper than books. Would it be worth using an Epic Warlock instead of a Epic Sorcerer (or Sorc. thing, whatever it ends up being) for our arcane caster? Would it qualify for the Epic Spellcasting feat? The arcanist is saying yes, because they have finished the spell progression for the class. But, the invocations are only spell-like abilities, not actual spells, and there are really only 4 levels of them, not the 9 required for the feat.
Daebereth 06-07-07, 06:40 AM	Important Equipment: Phylactery of Undead Turning, Rod of Restless Dead, Sacred Armor, Sacred Shield. K-man :cool: Is it possible to adapt the phylactery and the rod for turning heathens? Or is there something equivalent that already exists? Again, our DM has pretty much said we can adapt the undead things to heathen, because we have a no-undead world (alas for no animate dead spell) and we're counting the Norse gods as heathens for this purpose. And, could you please tell me where to find sacred armour/shields? My normally reliable index doesn't list it, and there are so many books. Provided, its probably in a damn obvious book, but my eyes hurt (and my books are in pdf) and I have a huge essay due in tomorrow, so I probably shouldn't spend time wading through books. Shouldn't being the key word here. :blush: Look, now I'm rambling....
arxhaon 06-07-07, 09:24 AM	as the afore-mentioned Arcanist... i was talking about a different campaign for the warlock, and i suggested it was a DM-discretion thing to grant epic spellcasting to an epic warlock, since techncally they have mastered a primary-spellcasting class, and can have the ranks in spellcraft.
Krispieman 06-07-07, 09:30 AM	Is it possible to adapt the phylactery and the rod for turning heathens? Or is there something equivalent that already exists? Again, our DM has pretty much said we can adapt the undead things to heathen, because we have a no-undead world (alas for no animate dead spell) and we're counting the Norse gods as heathens for this purpose.Adapting things is the realm of DM-fiat. But in truth, for my build it does not matter as their main function is to increase effective turning level to increase smite damage and not actually turn any undead. And, could you please tell me where to find sacred armour/shields?Book of Exalted Deeds. It's a +2 armor/shield enhancement. You can find the Ordained Champion class in Complete Champion.
Daebereth 06-07-07, 10:17 AM	as the afore-mentioned Arcanist... i was talking about a different campaign for the warlock, and i suggested it was a DM-discretion thing to grant epic spellcasting to an epic warlock, since techncally they have mastered a primary-spellcasting class, and can have the ranks in spellcraft. Just thought I should ask. Because it's technically not spellcasting... it's spell-like ability casting. I agree its a DM-discretion thing, though. But then again, wouldn't it be nice to know how it would stack against the sorcerer-thing you had in mind?
Daebereth 06-07-07, 10:33 AM	Adapting things is the realm of DM-fiat. But in truth, for my build it does not matter as their main function is to increase effective turning level to increase smite damage and not actually turn any undead. Awesome. Anything to up the damage. I forsee this being either a very short or a very long battle. Book of Exalted Deeds. It's a +2 armor/shield enhancement. I looked there, but clearly I'm blind. Or dead. Or both.
Krispieman 06-07-07, 04:53 PM	I looked there, but clearly I'm blind. Or dead. Or both.p. 112, just right of the Magic Items heading. K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-08-07, 12:04 AM	p. 112, just right of the Magic Items heading. K-man :cool: Cheers. This essay is eating my brain. I stared at the contents page and couldn't figure it out. :raincloud
Daebereth 06-08-07, 09:08 AM	Starting Stats: Str 10, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14 How did you come about these stats? Rolled up, point buy, just made up.... etc.
Krispieman 06-08-07, 10:06 AM	How did you come about these stats? Rolled up, point buy, just made up.... etc. I used Pointbuy 32. Also, I'm currently working on a version that's got more smite damage and additional feats ;) - stay tuned. K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-08-07, 10:16 AM	Starting Stats: Str 10, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14 How did you come about these stats? Rolled up, point buy, just made up.... etc. Edit: Just found out how our stats would be generated, so I guess the question is useless now. 120 point buy, 1 point buys 1 point. +5 to every stat at the end. Max of 70 for a single attribute. Also add in the 1 point/4 levels, which equals 15 (yes, I either needed to be told or use a calculator, because my mathematical skills are.... not so wonderous)
arxhaon 06-08-07, 01:18 PM	it is true :P Also, i just got told i cant tear Dis apart using anti-Genesis. so it looks like i might have to stick with bashing the divinity out of him.
Krispieman 06-10-07, 05:25 PM	Just found out how our stats would be generated, so I guess the question is useless now. 120 point buy, 1 point buys 1 point. +5 to every stat at the end. Max of 70 for a single attribute. Also add in the 1 point/4 levels, which equals 15 (yes, I either needed to be told or use a calculator, because my mathematical skills are.... not so wonderous) Okay, so let me get this straight. A starting stat of 70 costs 62 points , in fact any stat costs (stat-8) points? And you get a free +5 anyway. Can you still take manuals and tomes for +5 inherent? or is this the "free" +5? Not quite sure how this insane stat increase will affect my build, but 75 Wisdom before levels and equipment should offer some possibilities ;) K-man :cool:
Daebereth 06-11-07, 02:38 AM	Okay, so let me get this straight. A starting stat of 70 costs 62 points , in fact any stat costs (stat-8) points? And you get a free +5 anyway. Can you still take manuals and tomes for +5 inherent? or is this the "free" +5? Hmm, I think all stats are to start at 0 before we get to play around with the 120 and the free +5. And the 15, of course. The free +5 is so that we don't all have to go out and spend money on the tomes and manuals.... but I don't see why you couldn't buy extra. Our DM is in Sydney at the moment, so I don't know when we'll be able to clarify this... maybe Arxhaon can do so. He was talking about tomes. Average of 25 each at the beginning, before levels. I'm for the putting of more in the important stat (charisma seems the ultimate one for the above listed character?) There was also something about +12 (stat of choice) items. :D
arxhaon 06-11-07, 05:09 AM	Okay, the characters get a +5 inherent bonus to each stat, but tomes dont stack with this, because bonuses dont stack: period. Its impossible (as far as i know) to have more than a +5 inherent bonus to a stat. and Deabereth, i think what i REALLY mentioned was my characters mantle of +30 charisma and +17 to saves :P and yes, 120 point buy, all stats start at zero, and all stats get a + 5 inherent bonus.
Daebereth 06-11-07, 05:20 AM	+30, even better. can't/won't argue with that.
rob_douglas 06-11-07, 10:41 AM	That is what I thought when I saw the 120 point buy, with free +5. It is similar to the Dicefreaks deity creation rules (and probably where they came from). If you take 70 in one ability score, that only leaves room for 10 in each of the other 5. I assume the 70 cap does not apply to the inherent or any enhancement bonuses. Still no point in going that high with any ability score. I myself would probably also put in a minimum of 18 in any ability score, if the DM really wants you to be somewhat god-like. Without that, you can do well with the following for a smiter... S-29 D-17 C-17 I-9 W-17 Ch-31 Then add +5 inherent to all, and +15 level to CHA, for a total of S34, D22, C22, I14, W22, Ch51 ROB
Daebereth 06-11-07, 11:20 AM	Then add +5 inherent to all, and +15 level to CHA, for a total of S34, D22, C22, I14, W22, Ch51 ROB It's funny that this is the one time I can ignore INT and still get some skill points. Every other time, I get to skills and :bigeyes: I think the 70 cap includes any bonuses from items. That's the idea I'm getting from the DM and from Arxhaon.
arxhaon 06-13-07, 07:10 AM	mostly cause arxhaon is a much more experienced DM than the DM. and yes, i did steal that from dicefreaks and then present it to the DM. Also, we have the effective abilities of rank 1 deities (that is, immunities to various magical effects, and maximised hitpoints)
Daebereth 06-13-07, 10:02 AM	I know you are, Arxhaon. Why do you think I ask you things before I ask the DM?
Johnny_Angel 06-14-07, 01:19 PM	With 120 point buy, I still vote for a Bard. Many of the Bard abilities require the opponent to make a save with the DC set by your perform check result. Especially if you can take the Seeker of Song PrC. You would have to cover quite a few ability scores, but with 120 points I'm sure you could make an effective bard that was capable of ranged combat. Fascinate/Suggest from a distance and then pelt them with arrows. Make sure -if you do make a bard- to take the Epic Feat "Music of The Gods." Nothing (not even undead and constructs; nor gods) are immune to your mind effecting effects once you have that. Other good feats include "Force of Personality" which allows you to use CHA for your will saves and "Nymph's Kiss" which gives you one extra skill point per level and a bonus on all CHA related checks. One extra skill point doesn't seem like much, but it adds up over time.
Daebereth 06-14-07, 11:33 PM	I was just heading back to ask about the bard. We have one of our 4 players who is happy with a bard (I mentioned it to her and she said she thought of the Immigrant Song, and that was enough to convince her :tongue: ) Is there anything else we should be thinking about? Or just take bard and seeker levels? (I like those refrains! although the immunities that the initial song grants are somewhat covered by the Saint template I think we've all settled on - we were told by the DM that for flavour, the Norse gods will use mostly electrical magics, while we should restrict ourselves to the more fire and brimstone types. Electrical immunity? Hell yah!:evillaugh) Is there an epic Seeker of the Song anywhere?
Daebereth 06-14-07, 11:39 PM	Arxhaon, now I'm thinking perhaps a warlock wouldn't be so bad. Given that we'll be fighting some other things beforehand, while the other group will be untouched, those unlimited incantations could be worth our while in getting there without limited resources. (Unless this is the day that someone tells me that in fact, it is too good a thing and that no, the warlock does not in fact have unlimited incantations. I know it will happen.) Or our bard/ranged weapon angel could have a bow with unlimited ammo? Just some thoughts, I don't like the idea of arriving at the party not fully resourced while they will be lounging around waiting, if we're not allowed to just fly over them. You know, unless the CR for those giants is about 10.
Daebereth 06-17-07, 09:54 AM	And on that note, is there any advice anyone can offer for a legendary dreadnought? We're kind of settled on all taking the Saint template, which reduces it to a mere paltry 58 class levels. Same point buy as mentioned before. And the deity level 1 thing that Arxhaon was talking about earlier.