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Epic Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Umbrathys
05-06-07, 04:33 PM I am looking for assistance on an Epic Build...
The character (Umbrathys) will be an arcane spellcaster (with exceptional skill in Necromancy) with a total of 30 class levels (to which will be added either the Vampire template or the Lich template). Any ideas? Also, which template would you add?
Taeldrin Laesrash
05-06-07, 06:24 PM LA kills for a primary spellcaster. If you must, add Lich. If you want a necromancy specialist, go for Wizard 5/ Incantrix 16/Archmage 5, with Lich. Or, you could go Dread Necromancer 20/ X 10.
Umbrathys
05-06-07, 06:29 PM Many thanks!
bluemage55
05-06-07, 11:43 PM If you want to be a necromancer, don't be an arcane caster. Divine casters are much better at it.

Don't be a lich for any reason whatsover. You lose two all-important caster levels, and with Con -, you will die very quickly, and you also cannot afford to take much backlash damage on your epic spells.
Gemstone
05-07-07, 01:28 PM If you want to be a necromancer, don't be an arcane caster. Divine casters are much better at it.

Don't be a lich for any reason whatsover. You lose two all-important caster levels, and with Con -, you will die very quickly, and you also cannot afford to take much backlash damage on your epic spells.
Unless you can bump that damage reduction (as they effectivly removed DR in 3.5 from play) I agree :) Being undead just isn't as good as it used to be
Bernat
05-07-07, 01:42 PM I think undeads and constructs should have a constitution score (think of it as hardness, if you want), otherwise they are forced to have more hit dice to compensate the lack of hit points.

Just my :twocents:.

If your DM won't allow liches to have CON and is giving you free LA in the form of a template, ask about using the worm that walks (http://www.roles.es/sovelior_sage_srd/epicNonAbominations.html#worm-that-walks) :D.
rob_douglas
05-09-07, 03:05 AM Improved Toughness makes up for some lost hp. With d12 vs d4, an arcane lich is gaining +4hp/hit die over a non-undead, equal to 18 CON (or 12 with a +6 item) so I don't think their HP are really suffering as much as people make out they are. They can't benefit from the inherent bonus that living casters would get - but that is not a guarantee at 30th level. Is this an NPC or PC?

As for DR - 15/magic AND bludgeoning is nice - how many fighters have bludgeoning as their primary, weapon focused weapon? And the immunity to crits helps some more too.

You could always go demi-lich, but at +12 LA, if you are going with a PC that will make that not work. If you are designing an NPC it might if the flavor fits. You could even have a simulacrum that went lich as a henchman.

I think you wanted Necromancy specialization not for the army of undead (which clerics are better at) but for the save or die spells. In that case, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Epic Spell Focus, Heighten Spell, Improved Heighten Spell, and Improved Spell Capacity are needed to max out your save DC - but likely the targets will be able to save or ignore (through defensive spells) whatever you hit them with. Unless you use a powerful, epic spell with Dispel and Slay built-in to dispel any wards/protections. Spell Penetration/Greater SP/Epic SP are nice to add in as well. If it stacks, Spell Focus(Evil) might help. Check with your DM on the stacking.

For classes, a straight specialist wizard25/Archmage5 (if you get all 30 levels) does fine - you get a familiar, but could go Improved Familiar for flavor to get some kind of undead. Take Arcane Reach and Spell Power to offset any levels lost to Lichdom.

Anything else?

ROB
Gemstone
05-09-07, 03:56 AM I was looking into the caster level problem, and at epic levels, 2 caster levels isn't that horrible. If you really want them, grab Practiced Spellcaster and your good to go. Also, as an undead, you gain a lot of immunities that are good to work with.
runestar
05-09-07, 10:44 AM Practiced spellcaster does not work with templates, since there is no HD to apply to.
Epic spellcasting could be used to grant undead a con score.
Initiate of faerie mysteries lets you use your int mod for extra hp(or so I have been told).
Maybe take the dry lich prc for unholy toughness?

So you can have either con+cha mod or int+cha mod to hp.
RealSorceror
05-09-07, 11:20 AM Go divine, then take Walker in the Waste from the Sandstorm book. That'll get you the Dry Lich template for free, plus the amazing Unholy Touphness ability, which gives you extra hp based off your Cha and HD.

That, or just go with Dread Necromancer all the way, and you get the Lich template for free.
fnord
05-10-07, 09:34 AM Go divine, then take Walker in the Waste from the Sandstorm book. That'll get you the Dry Lich template for free, plus the amazing Unholy Touphness ability, which gives you extra hp based off your Cha and HD.

And makes all water act as Holy Water. That always turned be off to it, relative to Lich.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Umbrathys 05-06-07, 04:33 PM	I am looking for assistance on an Epic Build... The character (Umbrathys) will be an arcane spellcaster (with exceptional skill in Necromancy) with a total of 30 class levels (to which will be added either the Vampire template or the Lich template). Any ideas? Also, which template would you add?
Taeldrin Laesrash 05-06-07, 06:24 PM	LA kills for a primary spellcaster. If you must, add Lich. If you want a necromancy specialist, go for Wizard 5/ Incantrix 16/Archmage 5, with Lich. Or, you could go Dread Necromancer 20/ X 10.
Umbrathys 05-06-07, 06:29 PM	Many thanks!
bluemage55 05-06-07, 11:43 PM	If you want to be a necromancer, don't be an arcane caster. Divine casters are much better at it. Don't be a lich for any reason whatsover. You lose two all-important caster levels, and with Con -, you will die very quickly, and you also cannot afford to take much backlash damage on your epic spells.
Gemstone 05-07-07, 01:28 PM	If you want to be a necromancer, don't be an arcane caster. Divine casters are much better at it. Don't be a lich for any reason whatsover. You lose two all-important caster levels, and with Con -, you will die very quickly, and you also cannot afford to take much backlash damage on your epic spells. Unless you can bump that damage reduction (as they effectivly removed DR in 3.5 from play) I agree :) Being undead just isn't as good as it used to be
Bernat 05-07-07, 01:42 PM	I think undeads and constructs should have a constitution score (think of it as hardness, if you want), otherwise they are forced to have more hit dice to compensate the lack of hit points. Just my :twocents:. If your DM won't allow liches to have CON and is giving you free LA in the form of a template, ask about using the worm that walks (http://www.roles.es/sovelior_sage_srd/epicNonAbominations.html#worm-that-walks) :D.
rob_douglas 05-09-07, 03:05 AM	Improved Toughness makes up for some lost hp. With d12 vs d4, an arcane lich is gaining +4hp/hit die over a non-undead, equal to 18 CON (or 12 with a +6 item) so I don't think their HP are really suffering as much as people make out they are. They can't benefit from the inherent bonus that living casters would get - but that is not a guarantee at 30th level. Is this an NPC or PC? As for DR - 15/magic AND bludgeoning is nice - how many fighters have bludgeoning as their primary, weapon focused weapon? And the immunity to crits helps some more too. You could always go demi-lich, but at +12 LA, if you are going with a PC that will make that not work. If you are designing an NPC it might if the flavor fits. You could even have a simulacrum that went lich as a henchman. I think you wanted Necromancy specialization not for the army of undead (which clerics are better at) but for the save or die spells. In that case, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Epic Spell Focus, Heighten Spell, Improved Heighten Spell, and Improved Spell Capacity are needed to max out your save DC - but likely the targets will be able to save or ignore (through defensive spells) whatever you hit them with. Unless you use a powerful, epic spell with Dispel and Slay built-in to dispel any wards/protections. Spell Penetration/Greater SP/Epic SP are nice to add in as well. If it stacks, Spell Focus(Evil) might help. Check with your DM on the stacking. For classes, a straight specialist wizard25/Archmage5 (if you get all 30 levels) does fine - you get a familiar, but could go Improved Familiar for flavor to get some kind of undead. Take Arcane Reach and Spell Power to offset any levels lost to Lichdom. Anything else? ROB
Gemstone 05-09-07, 03:56 AM	I was looking into the caster level problem, and at epic levels, 2 caster levels isn't that horrible. If you really want them, grab Practiced Spellcaster and your good to go. Also, as an undead, you gain a lot of immunities that are good to work with.
runestar 05-09-07, 10:44 AM	Practiced spellcaster does not work with templates, since there is no HD to apply to. Epic spellcasting could be used to grant undead a con score. Initiate of faerie mysteries lets you use your int mod for extra hp(or so I have been told). Maybe take the dry lich prc for unholy toughness? So you can have either con+cha mod or int+cha mod to hp.
RealSorceror 05-09-07, 11:20 AM	Go divine, then take Walker in the Waste from the Sandstorm book. That'll get you the Dry Lich template for free, plus the amazing Unholy Touphness ability, which gives you extra hp based off your Cha and HD. That, or just go with Dread Necromancer all the way, and you get the Lich template for free.
fnord 05-10-07, 09:34 AM	Go divine, then take Walker in the Waste from the Sandstorm book. That'll get you the Dry Lich template for free, plus the amazing Unholy Touphness ability, which gives you extra hp based off your Cha and HD. And makes all water act as Holy Water. That always turned be off to it, relative to Lich.