Post/Author/DateTime	Post
d0yen 12-19-07, 10:44 PM	if you should choose TimeStop, would that work? could you choose Mort Disjunction (to gain immunity to your own Disjunction effect)... zomg
Wintermute_ 12-19-07, 10:50 PM	if you should choose TimeStop, would that work? Yes. could you choose Mort Disjunction (to gain immunity to your own Disjunction effect)... zomg No. If you were to take Spell Stowaway (disjunction) and an enemy spellcaster cast disjunction on you, you'd receive the effects of that spell as well as the effects of another copy of it. I wouldn't recommend it.
rob_douglas 12-20-07, 01:48 AM	Yes, Time Stop is a great choice, but make sure the DM decides how to rule on it before it comes into play. Every Spell Stowaway choice needs specific rulings - like do you or the original caster get to make choices about things like teleport destination, or energy immunity type, or which version of fire shield comes up? The way I do Time Stop as a stowaway is that you go with the caster, and act in their time stream, so you could use it to surprise them, since it will likely be your turn right after that, and you could then womp on them - since you are in the same time stream, you can affect each other. And remember, metamagic modifications don't protect against stowaway - so the Intensified TS gets you 10 rounds to take out the hapless caster. Heal, etc, definitely heals you as a stowaway. Not a good choice for an undead. As for Mort's, no, that is not a good choice. In general, I would look for personal, or harmless spells as good stowaway choices. ROB
d0yen 12-20-07, 12:37 PM	Yes, Time Stop is a great choice, ...the Intensified TS gets you 10 rounds to take out the hapless caster. Heal, etc, definitely heals you as a stowaway. 2d4 maxed + 2 seems like a waste of an intensified spell 7 slots higher. It would take 7 applications of increase spell capacity feats that would be a *waste* by lvl 30. perhaps in late 30s early 40's having that many would be a good idea... but i mean, 16th lvl magic slots, and forgetting EpicMagic?
Avatar of Kokusho 12-20-07, 12:43 PM	Improved Metamagic lowers this by a lot, and is useful every time you take it. IMM is why regular spells are superior to epic spells, usually. As for Spell Stowaway, ther are several good choices to make. The Invisibility spells are useful, true seeing, time stop, heal, haste, or just about anything else beneficial that you think you'll be around while it's cast any time soon. If your party's wizard casts Time Stop often, then it could be good for your entire party to grab Stowaway to effectively gain free actions while the enemy stands there all unaware while you manipulate the environment to your needs. Just because you can't mess with a person or held objects doesn't mean you can't make life Hell for someone else...
runestar 12-20-07, 09:51 PM	Note that spell-stowaway actually requires that you be able to cast the spell, so heal for wizards or timestop for clerics (unless they have it as a domain spell) are out.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-21-07, 07:35 AM	There's ways :p but yes, you have to be able to cast it. There's a few domains that give Time Stop.
evangelion1010 12-22-07, 12:15 PM	Disjunction specifically states it doesn't affect your items (ones you carry or touch.) It would be interesting to have, simply because if a caster used it on you, they'd also use it on themselves (but anyone within 40' of both you and the original caster would get it twice...hmmmm) As for spells that are useful... One could almost argue that spells which an effect of "personal" can't be stow-awayed, as the wording is "As if it had been used on you by the same caster." If this is simply for making clear that you use that caster's CL for variable effects, of that the spell must be a spell that can be cast on someone else, I'm not sure. (Although I'm guessing the general consensus is that personal spells are valid targets, and it is as if you cast it) ... Now time to make a party of epic VoP wizards/monks with spell stowaway (Disjunction) 1 round they all cast it, everyone within 40 feet of them gets 16 disjunctions, so even if they only fail a will save on a 1, they will lose most of their items... Now, if 3 characters with spell stowaway and a radius spell stand within each other's radius, does that mean that they can form an infinite spell loop?
Avatar of Kokusho 12-22-07, 12:32 PM	I always wanted to know what would happen if a creature had Spell Stowaway: Dimension Door and two casters, each equidistant from each other in relation to the creature, cast it at the exact same time for the exact same distance....
NoldorForce 12-22-07, 03:08 PM	As for spells that are useful... One could almost argue that spells which an effect of "personal" can't be stow-awayed, as the wording is "As if it had been used on you by the same caster." If this is simply for making clear that you use that caster's CL for variable effects, of that the spell must be a spell that can be cast on someone else, I'm not sure. (Although I'm guessing the general consensus is that personal spells are valid targets, and it is as if you cast it)Personal spells are in fact valid targets, as the "as if" clause doesn't care whether things normally work; it just resolves things as if they did. This is part of what I've termed the Phane Implication, given that the Phane gets Spell Stowaway (Time Stop) despite Time Stop normally being Personal-range.
BillTheManiac 12-23-07, 09:58 AM	I always wanted to know what would happen if a creature had Spell Stowaway: Dimension Door and two casters, each equidistant from each other in relation to the creature, cast it at the exact same time for the exact same distance.... Effects in general are not simultaneous in D&D. Someone's turn is first. However, with generic NPC enemies, this could pose a problem. I really would average them.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-23-07, 10:14 AM	The last person I asked about this said that it would tear the guy in half. He then proceeded to laugh for five minutes straight.
NoldorForce 12-23-07, 06:17 PM	Effects in general are not simultaneous in D&D. Someone's turn is first. However, with generic NPC enemies, this could pose a problem. I really would average them.It's theoretically possible for both spell effects to be contingent on the same trigger. This can cause some quirky rules interactions as implied by the original statement (what if one teleportation takes you out of range of the other?). In such a case, I believe that you get to default to the "choose your order" rule.As a general guideline, whenever the rules don’t stipulate an order of operations for special effects (such as spells or special abilities), you should apply them in the order that’s most beneficial to the creature.Though actually applying it here is a bit tricky...
BillTheManiac 12-23-07, 07:02 PM	It's theoretically possible for both spell effects to be contingent on the same trigger. This can cause some quirky rules interactions as implied by the original statement (what if one teleportation takes you out of range of the other?). In such a case, I believe that you get to default to the "choose your order" rule.Though actually applying it here is a bit tricky... Makes perfect sense. Where do you want to go? Ask the player.