Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Potato_Dragon 07-07-07, 01:41 AM	For no reason (other than being insane) I decided to extrapolate the stats of a sun-sized animated object. I didn't thoroughly check my math because working with numbers far too big for my calculator is very time-consuming and annoying, so there might be errors in this. Here's the relevant info: ANIMATED SUN Colossal+55 Construct (55 size categories larger than colossal) Movement: 50 (roll), 25 fly (clumsy), 712,000 orbital (perfect) Face/Reach: 6,039,797,880 / 4,026,531,920 Hit Dice: 180,921,504,926,846,976 d10 + 32,212,314,720 Average Hit Points: 1,050,067,309,309,972,088 (about 1 quintillion hp!) Initiative: -5 (would be -57 if you could have negative dexterity) Armor Class: normal/flat-footed -44, touch -45,230,376,213,711,749 Base attack/grapple: 90,460,752,481,423,607 / 90,460,752,481,423,843 Damage: Slam 536,871,912 d8 + 178 Abilities: Str 248, Dex 1, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1 Fort Save: 60,307,168,308,948,992 Reflex and Will Saves: 60,307,168,308,948,987 Special Qualities: Construct traits, Darkvision, Low light vision (vision traits are pretty much irrelevant) Solar Burn: All damage dealt is half fire and half radiation, the latter of which cannot be reduced by fire immunity or resistance. Solar Corona: Everything within 1,584,000 feet is pulled toward the sun at a rate of 337,670 feet per round and takes damage as if it had successfully hit, without the strength bonus. Challenge Rating: You have got to be kidding. Now we just need to find someone epic enough to actually animate that thing... just wondering, are there any rules for ungodly-sized objects attacking more than one square at once?
Grandmaster_Kane 07-07-07, 09:37 AM	Lots of errors but the thing i wanted too talk about was the size category there are size catergories from things this big I think it was like Macro-huge For one the size of the sun (not sure)
Potato_Dragon 07-07-07, 08:14 PM	I am aware that there is a system (I forget what it is called) used for "obnoxiously epic" gaming, but I do not know how it works and it is not official material anyway. (It's the one where the size categories max out at Xona-Colossal, if I remember right.) All I did was notice that the stats for animated objects form a pattern based on their size categories, figured the smallest size category that would fully enclose the sun (assuming that every 2 size categories above large or huge doubles the object/creature's face) and worked from there. If my stats are way off from what you get using that particular system, then it's quite likely that I used different assumptions on how to extrapolate larger size categories. (Note: If there's information on how to do that in the ELH, I haven't seen that either. These stats are based on purely non-epic material. I posted it here only because it seemed the most appropriate forum.)
Loren Pechtel 07-07-07, 11:03 PM	Damage: Slam 536,871,912 d8 + 178 Now we just need to find someone epic enough to actually animate that thing... just wondering, are there any rules for ungodly-sized objects attacking more than one square at once?[/QUOTE] Since it's got a slam attack and it's basically a ball I would say that it hits every square it moves into. Solar Corona: Everything within 1,584,000 feet is pulled toward the sun at a rate of 337,670 feet per round and takes damage as if it had successfully hit, without the strength bonus. Why does the corona do that kind of damage? It's too diffuse to do much. I also very much doubt the damage numbers. The sun is gaseous and lacks any magic to make the attack all that substantial. I would base the damage on distance and give it a ranged attack out to say 10,000 miles. (Solar flare.) I would also make it swallow whole anything it hit in melee. The deeper it can suck you in the more damage it does. Challenge Rating: You have got to be kidding. It's slow and predictable. Any weapon put into it's general vicinity will be drawn in and hit. It's got no regeneration. Killing it will be very slow due to it's hp's but certainly possible.
Infinitum 07-08-07, 12:42 AM	A single solar flare can unleash energy equivalent to billions of nuclear missiles...not to mention the heat of the sun itself. I would consider being anywhere near it suicidal, unless you are a deity or can somehow negate the awesome heat and radiation it emits. I would say remove the slam attack. Be realistic, a sun can not attack in the traditional manner. I would instead have an aura based effect (of the area you choose, this is your idea after all) that forces a save or die every turn (or however you want to do it). To animate the sun would be something that would almost undoubtedly be impossible for even the greatest magi of both the past and present. The exception, if any, would have probably been Karsus. He was able to craft a 12th level spell, the only one to ever do so, and it enabled him to temporarily become a god. However, since his era magic has changed in many aspects excluding the fundamental re-working of the Weave by Mystra. Thus, even if he found a way to do it, it would still be impossible using any method he would have had to do so. But the thing is, he wouldn't. Here is why. The size of the sun is so large that the epic spell seed required to animate it (unless you use variant rules, which in turn destroy any semblance of balance that the game already didn't have) would rack up a Spellcraft requirement that has a minimum of 15 zeroes at the end of the number (and that is being generous). To create an item to give such a massive boost would also be impossible (at least to you): There is not enough gold on Faerun to make it. Oh, sure, you have the other planes to look to, but honestly, the gold required would be enough to fill a continent (look at the size of a gold coin, and multiply that by how many of them are required to boost 1 spellcraft, then multiply that by the size of the sun). Now, Karsus would have needed much more than a 12th level spell. Even his Karsus's Avatar spell was only temporary (even if he did not get annihilated by the spell itself), and it's power level was nowhere near what would be required to animate the sun. My conclusion: It*is* possible, but what is required far exceeds the limitations of all but the strongest deities. I'm sure you could animate a small part of it, and maybe even manage to harness some of it's power for another purpose. However, unless you have a *very* extensive pocketbook, and the time to craft the spell itself (!!!)(Ok, maybe not a problem for a Lich), it will most likely not happen.
Potato_Dragon 07-08-07, 12:49 AM	Why does the corona do that kind of damage? It's too diffuse to do much. I also very much doubt the damage numbers. The sun is gaseous and lacks any magic to make the attack all that substantial. This is the damage I calculated for a sun-sized animated object. I never said it was realistic. As for the insubstantial part, that's covered with fire+radiation damage. Perhaps it shouldn't get a strength bonus, but air elementals aren't solid and they get a bonus. "Corona" is a misnomer, but it sounded better than "Solar atmosphere". The sun's atmosphere is about 1.5 million feet thick and is actually hotter than the core at some altitudes for reasons having to do with magnetism. I used the same damage as the slam attack for simplification. I have no idea what the gravity or damage would be like outside the atmosphere, I couldn't find much information on that, so I left it out. I would base the damage on distance and give it a ranged attack out to say 10,000 miles. (Solar flare.) I would also make it swallow whole anything it hit in melee. The deeper it can suck you in the more damage it does. It already has a reach of 4 trillion feet, it just needs to be able to hit a vast area at once. I probably should have added an engulf ability. It's slow and predictable. Any weapon put into it's general vicinity will be drawn in and hit. It's got no regeneration. Killing it will be very slow due to it's hp's but certainly possible. The -44 AC must be due to gravity. ;) And with what weapons? With the stats I gave, a typical arrow is going to get vaporized long before it even hits the sun. :P No, not really, since you can apparently fire at something an infinite distance away and hit it instantly because arrows don't have move speeds. Maybe I should add that any weapon that doesn't survive the corona's atmosphere's damage doesn't even get a chance to deal damage. Ooh, and I just realized it probably gets concealment. It's atmosphere is virtually opaque. Unless maybe I should consider the atmosphere to be part of the sun itself? And slow? It has a movement speed of 712,000 while in space. Which is about the only place it's ever going to be. I threw in that because that's the speed at which it orbits around the galaxy.
Potato_Dragon 07-08-07, 01:06 AM	A single solar flare can unleash energy equivalent to billions of nuclear missiles...not to mention the heat of the sun itself. I would consider being anywhere near it suicidal, unless you are a deity or can somehow negate the awesome heat and radiation it emits. An average of 2.4 trillion damage per round, half of it virtually unpreventable (and twice that if it smacks you while you're close to it) isn't suicidal? Okay, let's multiply that by a thousand or so then... My conclusion: It*is* possible, but what is required far exceeds the limitations of all but the strongest deities. That statement about finding someone to animate it was rhetorical. This is not something meant for actual use. I don't think anyone would actually ever go this far epic. I wouldn't. The main point of this was simply to see what kind of stats a sun-sized animated object would have, based on the existing animated object entries. Because I'm crazy. The "corona" and "burn damage" are mostly just flavor.
Infinitum 07-08-07, 03:22 AM	An average of 2.4 trillion damage per round, half of it virtually unpreventable (and twice that if it smacks you while you're close to it) isn't suicidal? Okay, let's multiply that by a thousand or so then... That statement about finding someone to animate it was rhetorical. This is not something meant for actual use. I don't think anyone would actually ever go this far epic. I wouldn't. The main point of this was simply to see what kind of stats a sun-sized animated object would have, based on the existing animated object entries. Because I'm crazy. The "corona" and "burn damage" are mostly just flavor. Ah, misinterpreted it then, nevermind! :) Although, theoretically, it would be possible to animate at least a little bit of it. I wonder if an epic conjurer could create something similar to what the sun would be but on a much much smaller scale. Thoughts? By the way, I did say it was suicidal lol, read my post again.
Aleolus 07-08-07, 04:23 AM	...Actually, I know a guy who could do that. And probably would just for a laugh sometime when he was bored. That 75th level wizard again. Unless I'm misremembering, he's LE.
StrahdVonZarovich 07-08-07, 04:37 AM	Lemme guess, he's a lich? How much hp does he have btw? Anyway could we access his charsheet just for the sake/fun of it?
Aleolus 07-08-07, 04:47 AM	I'm not sure if he would qualify as a lich or not. The guy's been playing this char for 15 years, started off as a 1st level human wizard. Now, however, this char (Rigor Mortis is the name he goes by now) is pretty much immune to every form of damage theirs an immunity to, immune to magic and psionics, and has some sort of feats in place to make it so if he would take damage from normal attacks, he instead takes no damage. :eek: Also has Wishbane, so anyone who tries to use a Wish on him or his family comes under the effect of a Baleful Polymorph spell. And, as the coup de grace, he used a wish spell to get so he can cast infinite spells. You do not want to get on this guys bad side!
obrysii 07-08-07, 12:47 PM	There is only one force in this galaxy that can duke it out with this. Punpun. Well, actually, an O-type star, being many times larger than the sun might stand a chance, too ...
NightBreeze 07-08-07, 01:35 PM	I'm not sure if he would qualify as a lich or not. The guy's been playing this char for 15 years, started off as a 1st level human wizard. Now, however, this char (Rigor Mortis is the name he goes by now) is pretty much immune to every form of damage theirs an immunity to, immune to magic and psionics, and has some sort of feats in place to make it so if he would take damage from normal attacks, he instead takes no damage. :eek: Also has Wishbane, so anyone who tries to use a Wish on him or his family comes under the effect of a Baleful Polymorph spell. And, as the coup de grace, he used a wish spell to get so he can cast infinite spells. You do not want to get on this guys bad side! Uhh...is that a PC ?
Aleolus 07-08-07, 01:45 PM	Originally, yes. However now, he just has him show up at random points to cause chaos.
Balthanon 07-08-07, 02:06 PM	And, as the coup de grace, he used a wish spell to get so he can cast infinite spells. You do not want to get on this guys bad side! If wish could be used to allow a character to cast infinite spells, it would be the first thing any sorcerer/wizard who reached 17th level and 5,000 experience would do. Hell, it would be the first thing any spellcaster who has 25,000 gold on them for the scroll would do. To each their own when playing, but that would rather ruin the game for me personally. For the sun itself, it really pretty much exemplifies the problem with high epic in my mind-- at some point, rolling a d20 just doesn't have any meaning anymore. And if that is the case, why bother using the d20 system to continue the game?
Grandmaster_Kane 07-08-07, 07:03 PM	A single solar flare can unleash energy equivalent to billions of nuclear missiles...not to mention the heat of the sun itself. I would consider being anywhere near it suicidal, unless you are a deity or can somehow negate the awesome heat and radiation it emits. I would say remove the slam attack. Be realistic, a sun can not attack in the traditional manner. I would instead have an aura based effect (of the area you choose, this is your idea after all) that forces a save or die every turn (or however you want to do it). To animate the sun would be something that would almost undoubtedly be impossible for even the greatest magi of both the past and present. The exception, if any, would have probably been Karsus. He was able to craft a 12th level spell, the only one to ever do so, and it enabled him to temporarily become a god. However, since his era magic has changed in many aspects excluding the fundamental re-working of the Weave by Mystra. Thus, even if he found a way to do it, it would still be impossible using any method he would have had to do so. But the thing is, he wouldn't. Here is why. The size of the sun is so large that the epic spell seed required to animate it (unless you use variant rules, which in turn destroy any semblance of balance that the game already didn't have) would rack up a Spellcraft requirement that has a minimum of 15 zeroes at the end of the number (and that is being generous). To create an item to give such a massive boost would also be impossible (at least to you): There is not enough gold on Faerun to make it. Oh, sure, you have the other planes to look to, but honestly, the gold required would be enough to fill a continent (look at the size of a gold coin, and multiply that by how many of them are required to boost 1 spellcraft, then multiply that by the size of the sun). Now, Karsus would have needed much more than a 12th level spell. Even his Karsus's Avatar spell was only temporary (even if he did not get annihilated by the spell itself), and it's power level was nowhere near what would be required to animate the sun. My conclusion: It*is* possible, but what is required far exceeds the limitations of all but the strongest deities. I'm sure you could animate a small part of it, and maybe even manage to harness some of it's power for another purpose. However, unless you have a *very* extensive pocketbook, and the time to craft the spell itself (!!!)(Ok, maybe not a problem for a Lich), it will most likely not happen. Kollouth and lathander could wipe that thing out in 1 turn if they double teamed behold there awsome power
Starmage21 07-08-07, 08:36 PM	Kollouth and lathander could wipe that thing out in 1 turn if they double teamed behold there awsome power Any DvR 1 or greater diety with the Hand of Death SDA could kill it in 1 round with no save.
Loren Pechtel 07-08-07, 11:27 PM	There is only one force in this galaxy that can duke it out with this. Punpun. Well, actually, an O-type star, being many times larger than the sun might stand a chance, too ... Interesting battle--they are both immune to each other's attacks. The only force they have that affects the other is the attraction. They will crash together so hard that they will fuse and explode.
Grandmaster_Kane 07-09-07, 06:26 AM	Any DvR 1 or greater diety with the Hand of Death SDA could kill it in 1 round with no save. but it is a construct. DOes hand of death work on thous? And isnt a req of hand of death more than 1 DvR
PrinceOfTheVoid 07-09-07, 08:11 PM	Does anyone here have Upper-Krust's epic bestiary? If you use those rules, which I think someone on this thread was referring to earlier, I think its stats would change drastically. ANd for the record, Macro-huge is nowhere near its size, try something like Giga fir that.
Jherid 07-09-07, 09:06 PM	Any DvR 1 or greater diety with the Hand of Death SDA could kill it in 1 round with no save. Nope. Hand Of Death The deity points to any mortal within the deity’s sensory range and snuffs out its life. There must be an unbroken line of effect between the deity and the target. Notes This ability works like the destruction spell, except that there is no material component. The mortal is allowed a Fortitude saving throw with a DC of 20 + the deity’s Charisma bonus + the deity’s divine rank. Even if the save succeeds, the subject takes 10d6 points of damage, which may kill it anyway. If the attack kills the mortal (either through a failed saving throw or through damage), the mortal cannot be raised or resurrected afterward, except by a deity of equal or higher rank using the Gift of Life, Life and Death, or Mass Life and Death salient divine ability. Life And Death This ability works across planar boundaries and penetrates any barrier except a divine shield. However, the subject must be in a location the deity can sense, either within the deity’s sense range or in a location the deity can perceive through its remote sensing ability. If the deity cannot see the subject, the deity must unambiguously identify the subject in some fashion. If the deity chooses to kill a mortal, the ability works like the destruction spell, except that there is no material component or saving throw. The mortal cannot be raised or resurrected afterward, except by a deity of equal or higher rank using the Gift of Life or Life and Death salient divine ability. Destruction Necromancy [Death] Construct Type Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Starmage21 07-10-07, 08:05 AM	Nope. Gah! Youre right. I mustve been thinking it emulated another spell(like implosion, which is a save or die without the death effect descriptor), or there was a caveat that made it work on everything equally. Its probobly the latter, rather than the former, because D&DG uses a definition for mortal that applies to any being without divine rank, that includes constructs or ageless beings who would otherwise be immortal under the common definition of the word :D =\ this is my typical day though. Masterminding beautiful death that a 5-year old could shoot holes in.
Potato_Dragon 07-11-07, 03:26 AM	Now, for my next feat, I will calculate the stats for an animated galaxy. Just kidding.
Grandmaster_Kane 07-11-07, 06:27 AM	You should do that
Potato_Dragon 07-12-07, 02:02 AM	Oh dear gods, NO. While galaxies come in a variety of different sizes, a medium-sized one would have a face/reach in octillions of feet. I don't even want to figure out what kind of size category that would be. A very rough estimate of the hit points required for something in that scale would require at least 60 digits, and probably more like 65. My estimate of the time it would take for me to precisely calculate everything by hand (while my calculator can help a bit with shortcuts it only goes up to 8 digits) is about 3 hours. Like Baator I'm gonna waste my time on that.
BillTheManiac 07-14-07, 07:08 PM	Google will get it to several decimal places in scientific notation. That's all you need, unless you're crazy.
DarkSunLord1 03-05-08, 01:49 AM	The sentient sun has already been done; look at DC comics and the movie Solaris (that last one bothered me somewhat). Let's go even further: someone make a sentient black hole! By the way, although I do not possess the stats for them, but the people that made Immortals Handbook spoke of 'Time Lords", who are literally sentient universes!
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-05-08, 10:41 AM	Why not just a octodecadoad black-hole spawned amidah legion Un-elemental? It can even kill Pun Pun through attrition :P
setekh 03-05-08, 09:11 PM	By the way, although I do not possess the stats for them, but the people that made Immortals Handbook spoke of 'Time Lords", who are literally sentient universes! The Doctor is a Sentient Universe you say? :plotting:
BillTheManiac 03-06-08, 04:23 PM	Why not just a octodecadoad black-hole spawned amidah legion Un-elemental? It can even kill Pun Pun through attrition :P Pun-Pun can't even be attrited. Being at the height of epic, if it can't 1-hit kill, it probably can't kill.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-06-08, 05:45 PM	^I believe you're the one who was attrited during that debate actually, Bill. :P (Surely you haven't forgotten the epicly undecisive bicker-fest that was Pun Pun vs. the Mortiverse:D )
larry_the_titan 03-06-08, 07:45 PM	^I believe you're the one who was attrited during that debate actually, Bill. :P (Surely you haven't forgotten the epicly undecisive bicker-fest that was Pun Pun vs. the Mortiverse:D ) Please don't mention that thread again or they might become as common as old Monkey Grip + Powerful Build + Fullblade threads used to be or the power of Archivist threads are right now. And nobody wants that.
DarkSunLord1 03-06-08, 10:08 PM	The Doctor is a Sentient Universe you say? :plotting: No I am not refering to the Docter. The Time Lords I am refering to were thought up by the people who made the Immortal's Handbook: Epic Bestiary: Volume 1, and live in the Eighth Dimension. These creatures are also called "Aeons". Appearently, they are aspects of God, effectively making them his avatars.
BillTheManiac 03-07-08, 07:32 AM	^I believe you're the one who was attrited during that debate actually, Bill. :P (Surely you haven't forgotten the epicly undecisive bicker-fest that was Pun Pun vs. the Mortiverse:D ) I was attrited. Pun-Pun was not. Pun-Pun was probably killed as a free action.
Euclid 03-10-08, 11:05 PM	Well, actually, an O-type star, being many times larger than the sun might stand a chance, too ... Actually, it would stand even less of a chance. The sun would simply core it, and emerge relatively unscathed. No I am not refering to the Docter. The Time Lords I am refering to were thought up by the people who made the Immortal's Handbook: Epic Bestiary: Volume 1, and live in the Eighth Dimension. These creatures are also called "Aeons". Appearently, they are aspects of God, effectively making them his avatars.Ah, so they aren't as powerful as the Doctor then.