Epic Item Cost [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Item Cost [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Urithair
02-27-08, 07:39 PM It is obvious that he item costs for epic items listed in Epic Handbook and d20srd are both WRONG.

It lists the cost of a +5 weapon as 50,000 and the cost of a +6 weapon as 720,000 (compared to the 72,000 found in the DMG).

It lists the cost of +5 armor as 25,000 and +6 armor as 360,000 (compared to the 36,000 found in the DMG).

From that point it becomes painfully clear that an extra 0 has popped into a lot of the item costs. Has this ever been addressed by WotC? Most of the items are easy to figure out but some of them aren't.
Tshern
02-27-08, 07:46 PM +6 weapon is an epic weapon, thusly its price is multiplied by ten. Let me elaborate further:
+5 Keen Ghost touch weapon of Speed has an EFFECTIVE enchantment cost of 10 (+5 bonus, +1 from keen, +1 from Ghost touch and +3 from Speed) and using the formula given in the DMG, it costs 200k.
Should you make that weapon a +6 Keen Ghost touch weapon of Speed, it would turn epic as its EFFECTIVE enchantment cost is +11, which more than 10. Hence, it would have its base price (as per the formula in the DMG) multiplied by ten.

Having a +5 weapon indeed costs 50k (5^2x2000), as it is not an epic weapon. Having +6 bonus (not effective bonus, just +6 enchantment) is again an epic weapon and should cost 720k, because its price is calculated with the epic formula (6^2x2000x10).

Get it now?
Loren Pechtel
02-28-08, 01:28 PM The extra zero is there by design, not by mistake.
rob_douglas
02-29-08, 07:54 AM But only if the enhancement bonus or single special property effective bonus is +6 or above. It is also there for any item totaling +11 or above.

+5 flaming long sword costs 72,000
+6 longsword costs 720,000, is epic, and can penetrate epic DR.

ROB
Solaria
03-04-08, 08:20 PM The extra zero is there by design, not by mistake.

It's very poor design. It should be noted that only bonuses and powers that are in and of themselves epic get the X10 modifier. There are example items in ELH that are epic because they exceed the 200,000 gp limit on non-epic items, but they aren't priced at X10.

There are very fundamental problems in item creation. To start with, wizards are really jammed in the skill point department. Sure, they get extra points for high int, but so does any other character. When you consider all the knowledge fields a good caster should be steeped in, and the crafting skills to manufacture the items to then be enchanted, 2/level just doesn't cut it. Why does a rogue with 9 int learn more skills per level than a wizard with 20 int? Sure, rogue is a skill-intensive class, but so is wizard (knowledge-arcana, spellcraft, concentration, decipher script, knowledge planes as well probably, history and geography to help track down lost lore, etc).

Add to that XP costs to make items. As things stand, pretty much you have to kill stuff to advance your skills, which is totally contrary to common sense. Add in to that, creating an item is a major accomplishment, yet the wizard is punished for it, not rewarded, when it comes to experience.

Add to this the opportunity cost. It takes a lot of time to make items, time which the wizard can't spend adventuring. This holds back his progression. While he's home enchanting armor for the fighters in the group, they are out garnering more XP.

The X10 rule for epic items just exacerbates this problem.

Here are some ways to help this.

1) Reduce the time to create an item to 1 day/2000 gp value.

2) Make the feat Efficient Item Creation a normal feat. Instead of reducing the cost by 10, it cuts it in half.

Between these two changes items now cost 1/4 as much time to create, letting wizards get back into the game quicker.

3) Divide the XP cost to create an item by 10. Leaving a bit requires the wizard to put some of himself in the item. However, the first time a wizard creates an item, he should gain an XP award for the accomplishment, of say item cost/10. After the first time, he now knows how to do it, so he doesn't get the award again.

4) Epic level powers should be more expensive, but 10X is rediculous. As it stands, a +10 ring of protection would take 2000 days to create. That's 6 years of game time. With the current rules you could take epic item creation, but it still takes you out of the campaign for 200 days. The XP cost would be 30,000 XP, and I think it would require a 30th level+ caster (+1/3 caster levels). Basically, the 30th level caster would have to kill enough stuff to gain a level. Only when he is ready to level up can he create the item, by spending all the XP on the item instead. This is a terrible game mechanic. It is obviously designed to discourage casters from taking advantage of one of the primary mainstays of their class - to make magic items.

The designers have pointed out that high level characters have a lot of cash, and if epic items were more affordable it would be easy for them to buy or make them. The problem though isn't the cost of the items (although they should be more costly, like x2 or x3). The problem is the amount of loot handed out at higher levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Urithair 02-27-08, 07:39 PM	It is obvious that he item costs for epic items listed in Epic Handbook and d20srd are both WRONG. It lists the cost of a +5 weapon as 50,000 and the cost of a +6 weapon as 720,000 (compared to the 72,000 found in the DMG). It lists the cost of +5 armor as 25,000 and +6 armor as 360,000 (compared to the 36,000 found in the DMG). From that point it becomes painfully clear that an extra 0 has popped into a lot of the item costs. Has this ever been addressed by WotC? Most of the items are easy to figure out but some of them aren't.
Tshern 02-27-08, 07:46 PM	+6 weapon is an epic weapon, thusly its price is multiplied by ten. Let me elaborate further: +5 Keen Ghost touch weapon of Speed has an EFFECTIVE enchantment cost of 10 (+5 bonus, +1 from keen, +1 from Ghost touch and +3 from Speed) and using the formula given in the DMG, it costs 200k. Should you make that weapon a +6 Keen Ghost touch weapon of Speed, it would turn epic as its EFFECTIVE enchantment cost is +11, which more than 10. Hence, it would have its base price (as per the formula in the DMG) multiplied by ten. Having a +5 weapon indeed costs 50k (5^2x2000), as it is not an epic weapon. Having +6 bonus (not effective bonus, just +6 enchantment) is again an epic weapon and should cost 720k, because its price is calculated with the epic formula (6^2x2000x10). Get it now?
Loren Pechtel 02-28-08, 01:28 PM	The extra zero is there by design, not by mistake.
rob_douglas 02-29-08, 07:54 AM	But only if the enhancement bonus or single special property effective bonus is +6 or above. It is also there for any item totaling +11 or above. +5 flaming long sword costs 72,000 +6 longsword costs 720,000, is epic, and can penetrate epic DR. ROB
Solaria 03-04-08, 08:20 PM	The extra zero is there by design, not by mistake. It's very poor design. It should be noted that only bonuses and powers that are in and of themselves epic get the X10 modifier. There are example items in ELH that are epic because they exceed the 200,000 gp limit on non-epic items, but they aren't priced at X10. There are very fundamental problems in item creation. To start with, wizards are really jammed in the skill point department. Sure, they get extra points for high int, but so does any other character. When you consider all the knowledge fields a good caster should be steeped in, and the crafting skills to manufacture the items to then be enchanted, 2/level just doesn't cut it. Why does a rogue with 9 int learn more skills per level than a wizard with 20 int? Sure, rogue is a skill-intensive class, but so is wizard (knowledge-arcana, spellcraft, concentration, decipher script, knowledge planes as well probably, history and geography to help track down lost lore, etc). Add to that XP costs to make items. As things stand, pretty much you have to kill stuff to advance your skills, which is totally contrary to common sense. Add in to that, creating an item is a major accomplishment, yet the wizard is punished for it, not rewarded, when it comes to experience. Add to this the opportunity cost. It takes a lot of time to make items, time which the wizard can't spend adventuring. This holds back his progression. While he's home enchanting armor for the fighters in the group, they are out garnering more XP. The X10 rule for epic items just exacerbates this problem. Here are some ways to help this. 1) Reduce the time to create an item to 1 day/2000 gp value. 2) Make the feat Efficient Item Creation a normal feat. Instead of reducing the cost by 10, it cuts it in half. Between these two changes items now cost 1/4 as much time to create, letting wizards get back into the game quicker. 3) Divide the XP cost to create an item by 10. Leaving a bit requires the wizard to put some of himself in the item. However, the first time a wizard creates an item, he should gain an XP award for the accomplishment, of say item cost/10. After the first time, he now knows how to do it, so he doesn't get the award again. 4) Epic level powers should be more expensive, but 10X is rediculous. As it stands, a +10 ring of protection would take 2000 days to create. That's 6 years of game time. With the current rules you could take epic item creation, but it still takes you out of the campaign for 200 days. The XP cost would be 30,000 XP, and I think it would require a 30th level+ caster (+1/3 caster levels). Basically, the 30th level caster would have to kill enough stuff to gain a level. Only when he is ready to level up can he create the item, by spending all the XP on the item instead. This is a terrible game mechanic. It is obviously designed to discourage casters from taking advantage of one of the primary mainstays of their class - to make magic items. The designers have pointed out that high level characters have a lot of cash, and if epic items were more affordable it would be easy for them to buy or make them. The problem though isn't the cost of the items (although they should be more costly, like x2 or x3). The problem is the amount of loot handed out at higher levels.