Epic Level Cerebremancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Level Cerebremancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hendel
03-20-07, 11:19 AM Okay, epic level progression can sometimes be a tricky business when you have a multi-class character, so here goes.

I have a Wizard 5/Psion 5/Cerebremancer 10. He is the equivalent of a 15th level caster and a 15th level manifester. When he achieves 21st level and enters the ranks of the epic and I choose to go with Cerebremancer level 11, what happens to spell slots and power points?

I know that caster level and manifester level continue to increase and I know that the attack bonus, save bonus, and bonus feats accrue as normal for an epic level character. However, the SRD says:

"The wizard’s number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. Each time the wizard achieves a new level, he or she learns two new spells of any spell levels that he or she can cast (according to his or her new level)."

and

"The psion’s base power points do not increase after 20th level. Each time the psion attains a new level, he learns two new powers of any level or levels that he can manifest."

Are those quotations only applicable to a single class wizard who hits both character level 21 and wizard level 21 at the same time (and psion as well)?

Or, does that mean that once my character hits 21st level, I am halted in my progression of gaining any more spells or powers of 9th level?

Example, would a Wizard 5/Psion 5/Cerebremancer 12 be equal to a 17th level caster and/or manifester and have access to 9th level spells and/or powers?

Or, do I have to go the Wizard 7th/Psion 7th/Cerebremancer 10th route in order to get 9th level spells and/or powers?

Or, is there no other way to gain access to 9th level spells, if you have not done so by 20th level?

I see the logic in the 2nd route being that you still gain the class features (not the BAB or saves) of classes that you take while an epic level character even if you are not "epic" level within that particular class (ie a 21st level wizard, psion etc.).

I would have no problem, also, with the 12th level cerebremancer route other than the rules seem to imply that once you are both an epic level character and you have levels in an epic level class (which 12th level cerebremancer would be), then the rules change as far as what class features you get and do not get.

I hope it is not the third example as that would torpedo my plans (but I do not think that this is really the way it is).

I hope I was not to confusing, any help??
NoldorForce
03-20-07, 11:36 AM For the purposes of casting/manifesting (ie, the relevant stuff), you're a 15th-level wizard/psion respectively. Thus taking more levels in wizard, psion, or prestige classes that advance casting/manifesting will increase your casting/manifesting until you reach 20th level in the appropriate class with respect to casting/manifesting.

Basically, just do things normally; that line doesn't kick in until your casting/manifesting is equal to the normal non-epic limits given. Don't go with Cerebremancer, however. If Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is any indication, you will be in a world of SUCK.
Hendel
03-20-07, 01:29 PM For the purposes of casting/manifesting (ie, the relevant stuff), you're a 15th-level wizard/psion respectively. Thus taking more levels in wizard, psion, or prestige classes that advance casting/manifesting will increase your casting/manifesting until you reach 20th level in the appropriate class with respect to casting/manifesting.

Basically, just do things normally; that line doesn't kick in until your casting/manifesting is equal to the normal non-epic limits given. Don't go with Cerebremancer, however. If Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is any indication, you will be in a world of SUCK.

Thanks!

That is what I thought would be the path, but I always like to test things out here to be sure that I am in line with the rules.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of looking to the Mystic Theurge as a reference, but you are right, 10 levels, 5 of each of the spellcasting levels, and a single bonus feat!! That is a world of "SUCK!"
Aluroon
03-20-07, 07:43 PM Thanks!

That is what I thought would be the path, but I always like to test things out here to be sure that I am in line with the rules.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of looking to the Mystic Theurge as a reference, but you are right, 10 levels, 5 of each of the spellcasting levels, and a single bonus feat!! That is a world of "SUCK!"

There is a large amount of support for rebuilding such class's into full progression, bonus feats every 6-8 level prcs. Something you would know if you read the stickes.
NoldorForce
03-20-07, 08:03 PM Link for the curious on MT (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-565116).
Link on Cerebremancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-579548).
Hendel
03-20-07, 11:32 PM There is a large amount of support for rebuilding such class's into full progression, bonus feats every 6-8 level prcs. Something you would know if you read the stickes.

Sorry, haven't actually needed epic rules for a while, so I did not notice the sticky messages.

Link for the curious on MT (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-565116).
Link on Cerebremancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-579548).

Thanks NoldorForce, those help a lot!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hendel 03-20-07, 11:19 AM	Okay, epic level progression can sometimes be a tricky business when you have a multi-class character, so here goes. I have a Wizard 5/Psion 5/Cerebremancer 10. He is the equivalent of a 15th level caster and a 15th level manifester. When he achieves 21st level and enters the ranks of the epic and I choose to go with Cerebremancer level 11, what happens to spell slots and power points? I know that caster level and manifester level continue to increase and I know that the attack bonus, save bonus, and bonus feats accrue as normal for an epic level character. However, the SRD says: "The wizard’s number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. Each time the wizard achieves a new level, he or she learns two new spells of any spell levels that he or she can cast (according to his or her new level)." and "The psion’s base power points do not increase after 20th level. Each time the psion attains a new level, he learns two new powers of any level or levels that he can manifest." Are those quotations only applicable to a single class wizard who hits both character level 21 and wizard level 21 at the same time (and psion as well)? Or, does that mean that once my character hits 21st level, I am halted in my progression of gaining any more spells or powers of 9th level? Example, would a Wizard 5/Psion 5/Cerebremancer 12 be equal to a 17th level caster and/or manifester and have access to 9th level spells and/or powers? Or, do I have to go the Wizard 7th/Psion 7th/Cerebremancer 10th route in order to get 9th level spells and/or powers? Or, is there no other way to gain access to 9th level spells, if you have not done so by 20th level? I see the logic in the 2nd route being that you still gain the class features (not the BAB or saves) of classes that you take while an epic level character even if you are not "epic" level within that particular class (ie a 21st level wizard, psion etc.). I would have no problem, also, with the 12th level cerebremancer route other than the rules seem to imply that once you are both an epic level character and you have levels in an epic level class (which 12th level cerebremancer would be), then the rules change as far as what class features you get and do not get. I hope it is not the third example as that would torpedo my plans (but I do not think that this is really the way it is). I hope I was not to confusing, any help??
NoldorForce 03-20-07, 11:36 AM	For the purposes of casting/manifesting (ie, the relevant stuff), you're a 15th-level wizard/psion respectively. Thus taking more levels in wizard, psion, or prestige classes that advance casting/manifesting will increase your casting/manifesting until you reach 20th level in the appropriate class with respect to casting/manifesting. Basically, just do things normally; that line doesn't kick in until your casting/manifesting is equal to the normal non-epic limits given. Don't go with Cerebremancer, however. If Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is any indication, you will be in a world of SUCK.
Hendel 03-20-07, 01:29 PM	For the purposes of casting/manifesting (ie, the relevant stuff), you're a 15th-level wizard/psion respectively. Thus taking more levels in wizard, psion, or prestige classes that advance casting/manifesting will increase your casting/manifesting until you reach 20th level in the appropriate class with respect to casting/manifesting. Basically, just do things normally; that line doesn't kick in until your casting/manifesting is equal to the normal non-epic limits given. Don't go with Cerebremancer, however. If Mystic Theurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClassProgressions.htm#epicMystic Theurge) is any indication, you will be in a world of SUCK. Thanks! That is what I thought would be the path, but I always like to test things out here to be sure that I am in line with the rules. Yeah, I hadn't thought of looking to the Mystic Theurge as a reference, but you are right, 10 levels, 5 of each of the spellcasting levels, and a single bonus feat!! That is a world of "SUCK!"
Aluroon 03-20-07, 07:43 PM	Thanks! That is what I thought would be the path, but I always like to test things out here to be sure that I am in line with the rules. Yeah, I hadn't thought of looking to the Mystic Theurge as a reference, but you are right, 10 levels, 5 of each of the spellcasting levels, and a single bonus feat!! That is a world of "SUCK!" There is a large amount of support for rebuilding such class's into full progression, bonus feats every 6-8 level prcs. Something you would know if you read the stickes.
NoldorForce 03-20-07, 08:03 PM	Link for the curious on MT (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-565116). Link on Cerebremancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-579548).
Hendel 03-20-07, 11:32 PM	There is a large amount of support for rebuilding such class's into full progression, bonus feats every 6-8 level prcs. Something you would know if you read the stickes. Sorry, haven't actually needed epic rules for a while, so I did not notice the sticky messages. Link for the curious on MT (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-565116). Link on Cerebremancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-579548). Thanks NoldorForce, those help a lot!