Epic level genesis? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic level genesis? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ChrisDemiLich
03-09-08, 04:19 PM I am just trying to figure something out. My character is an epic level wizard, and I recently took the epic spellcasting feat. Here is what I want to make..

An epic version of the Genesis spell. The spell should create a Demiplane, conforming to the user's specifications, like the genesis spell. The area of the base spell (A ninth level spell) is 180 feet for the initial casting, then 60 feet for each additional casting. I plan to use the Epic Spell factors to increase that by several hundred percent.

I also plan to use the life seed, to form simple forms of life. Nothing more complex then grasses and trees. And the conceal seed to hide the demiplane from scrying or magical detection.

The real problem I have is figuring out which seed to use for the base effect of creating the Spell. I was thinking maybe Conjuration. But the description of the seed does not seem to indicate that it would work out.

Anyone skilled with Epic Spells who might have a recommendation for me please? I would appreciate it.
BillTheManiac
03-09-08, 09:14 PM Custom seed: As the spell Genesis, but DC 31 and 10 minute casting time. You can convert the XP cost to a DC increase at the rate given in the mitigating factor.
ChrisDemiLich
03-10-08, 02:32 AM Thank you. That was very helpful. I appreciate it.

Anyway, here is the spell I actually came up with.

*Create World*

Conjuration(Creation)
Spellcraft DC: 51
Components: V,S, XP
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range:1800 ft
Effect: A demiplane with radius 1800 ft., coterminus with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You create a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. You can only cast this spell while on the Ethereal Plane. The demiplane is formed immediately, centered on your location.

The character determines the environment in the demiplane when he or she first casts create world, reflecting most any desire he or she can visualize. The caster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the shape of the general terrain. The Demiplane contains simple, non-sentient life-forms of your choosing, up to and including normal non-magical plants, grasses, vegetables, trees, weeds, and ferns, as well as simple animals such as those described in chapter 2 of the Monter's manual, up to a Challenge Rating of 1/3.

The demiplane is protected against divination magic. Any divination spells used, including through the use of the epic divination seed is subject to an opposed caster level check in order to succeed.

To Develop: 459,000 gp; 10 days; 18360 XP. Seed: Genesis Seed(DC 81), Conceal Seed(DC 23), Life Seed(DC 27). Factors: Increase area 1000% +40, 1 action casting time +20. Mitigating factors: Burn 10,000 XP -100, Backlash damage 40d6 -40
Thane26425
03-10-08, 11:51 PM Not bad, though personally I would increase the Xp cost and lower the backlash damage. Of course if your particular caster can actually survive a maximum hit from that spell, good for them.
ChrisDemiLich
03-11-08, 12:56 AM My wizard has over 200 HP thanks to the requisite five wishes, And epic items granting extra Con. The spell might kill me if it somehow manages to roll max damage, but thankfully, that is pretty rare.
Paladin's Pride
03-17-08, 01:37 AM Is there some reason you wanted this to be a one action casting time? With a 10,000 XP burn on it you can't be planning on casting it that often. I guess theoretically if you could get your opponent onto the ethereal plane you could use this as a no-save imprisonment spell where everything in 1,800 feet ends up trapped in a demiplane with no escape route other than plane-shifting. Anyhow, I assume you have your reasons, but care to let us in on them?
Thane26425
03-17-08, 10:02 AM Is there some reason you wanted this to be a one action casting time? With a 10,000 XP burn on it you can't be planning on casting it that often. I guess theoretically if you could get your opponent onto the ethereal plane you could use this as a no-save imprisonment spell where everything in 1,800 feet ends up trapped in a demiplane with no escape route other than plane-shifting. Anyhow, I assume you have your reasons, but care to let us in on them?

Good point, missed that myself. Lengthening the casting time should also lower that backlash. As it is, you get a huge area. One casting of this spell gives you about 3736 acres, or about 5 square miles, provided you use the interior of the sphere like a Dyson sphere. That's a lot of land. Besides, you might even get an advantage over invaders that way who arrive and aren't used to the architecture.
ChrisDemiLich
03-18-08, 01:36 PM In Epic level, 10,000 exp is not to difficult to obtain. I usually have an extra 40-50 thousand spare for making magical items or golems anyway. Spend a few minutes in Hell, and you can get it all easily.

The spell itself is designed for me to quickly and easily expand the biggest demiplane possible. Like Genesis, recasting it within the same demiplane widens it by half the original radius, so in a short time, you can have a Demiplane of really epic proportions.

The plane can also be used for defense, or offense. In an instant, you can create a demiplane, conforming to your specifications, which cannot be scryed unless the opponent beats a caster level check.

And like you mentioned, you could trap enemies in a space which you designed, which conforms to your will, and which is suited for you. Is your enemy a powerful evil demigod of fire? Create a demiplane which is water based, and good aligned. Make it so that eveything in the environment is suited to you, and opposed to your enemy. In an instant, a terribly challenging battle has swayed in your favor.
rob_douglas
03-18-08, 02:30 PM I have to learn more about this 10,000XP hang out. At 50th level, you have to face a CR 49 creature to get 10,000XP. Or 10 CR43 creatures. That is per PC. To be worth their CR, that means you face a 25% reduction in resources, to fight those creatures. That is a significant hit. If you are getting free 10,000XP bumps for lazing around Hell, someone is not doing their job right.

ROB
Tshern
03-18-08, 08:10 PM And having 40k-50k worth of experience just hanging implies very high levels indeed.
ChrisDemiLich
03-23-08, 07:00 AM Raid Asmodius's Stronghold. Go attack Tiamat head on and kill a couple of her Avatars. We've already killed Beelzebub, The Hag Countess, and Mephistopheles. We also managed to slay Vecna. Lets not forget the massive number of epic level minions they kept as elite bodyguards, or pets. We never did kill Asmodius, he was too well prepared and managed to escape. We still got experience from him for Beating him and making him flee.

Don't forget. Hell has alot of devils. In our battle to raid Asmodius, we killed over a thousand individual devils. All of them had PC levels added into the Monster Manual Stats. And all were well into epic levels. Our DM rocks. He used a program he wrote to equate the turns of each enemy, roll dice, and then he could plot their actions. (He works as a programmer)

Tiamat had advanced Dragons as her consorts. We killed them all. Asmodius had an enslaved Hecatonchieres as a personal watchdog. We killed that.

One thing I did forget to mention.. Our entire party consists of 3 Demi-liches. I am a Mystic Theurge who specializes in epic spells, and creating golems/Collossi. My friend is a True Necromancer, who controls a sizeable army of undead. And the third is a cleric who specializes in Harm spells, and manages to keep us all well healed, and protected.

And I wonder, would that be harmed and protected for undead? XP
SokenzanMarauder
03-23-08, 07:18 AM You should tell your DM about the Immortal's Handbook. If not for that book at least for the Beastiary.
The_Black_Hand
03-23-08, 11:57 PM Raid Asmodius's Stronghold. Go attack Tiamat head on and kill a couple of her Avatars. We've already killed Beelzebub, The Hag Countess, and Mephistopheles. We also managed to slay Vecna. Lets not forget the massive number of epic level minions they kept as elite bodyguards, or pets. We never did kill Asmodius, he was too well prepared and managed to escape. We still got experience from him for Beating him and making him flee.

Don't forget. Hell has alot of devils. In our battle to raid Asmodius, we killed over a thousand individual devils. All of them had PC levels added into the Monster Manual Stats. And all were well into epic levels. Our DM rocks. He used a program he wrote to equate the turns of each enemy, roll dice, and then he could plot their actions. (He works as a programmer)

Tiamat had advanced Dragons as her consorts. We killed them all. Asmodius had an enslaved Hecatonchieres as a personal watchdog. We killed that.

One thing I did forget to mention.. Our entire party consists of 3 Demi-liches. I am a Mystic Theurge who specializes in epic spells, and creating golems/Collossi. My friend is a True Necromancer, who controls a sizeable army of undead. And the third is a cleric who specializes in Harm spells, and manages to keep us all well healed, and protected.

And I wonder, would that be harmed and protected for undead? XP

I have to ask a few things here.

What level are your Characters?

Are you guys using the seriously weak and inconsistant stats for those Dieities/Demon Princes that are put out by WoTC?
ChrisDemiLich
03-25-08, 02:49 PM Our levels are 45, 47, and 51.

And our DM uses the Book of vile darkness for the BASE devil Prince stats, and the Deities and Demigods book for the BASE god stats.

Note I said BASE. He changed all of them to include epic level feats and progressions. It made them a lot harder to fight.
IceFractal
03-26-08, 04:17 AM By changing it to an 11-minute casting time though, you could reduce the XP cost to 6,000 xp. Are you really earning more than 4,000 xp every 10 minutes?
ChrisDemiLich
03-26-08, 04:49 AM I have an epic level spell that can one hit kill anything with less then 600 Hit points. Making exp is not the real issue.
The_Black_Hand
03-27-08, 11:46 PM Our levels are 45, 47, and 51.

And our DM uses the Book of vile darkness for the BASE devil Prince stats, and the Deities and Demigods book for the BASE god stats.

Note I said BASE. He changed all of them to include epic level feats and progressions. It made them a lot harder to fight.

Glad to hear that.

I had my players (all around 35, 6 of them) and they were barely able to take down a Rank 5 Diety.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChrisDemiLich 03-09-08, 04:19 PM	I am just trying to figure something out. My character is an epic level wizard, and I recently took the epic spellcasting feat. Here is what I want to make.. An epic version of the Genesis spell. The spell should create a Demiplane, conforming to the user's specifications, like the genesis spell. The area of the base spell (A ninth level spell) is 180 feet for the initial casting, then 60 feet for each additional casting. I plan to use the Epic Spell factors to increase that by several hundred percent. I also plan to use the life seed, to form simple forms of life. Nothing more complex then grasses and trees. And the conceal seed to hide the demiplane from scrying or magical detection. The real problem I have is figuring out which seed to use for the base effect of creating the Spell. I was thinking maybe Conjuration. But the description of the seed does not seem to indicate that it would work out. Anyone skilled with Epic Spells who might have a recommendation for me please? I would appreciate it.
BillTheManiac 03-09-08, 09:14 PM	Custom seed: As the spell Genesis, but DC 31 and 10 minute casting time. You can convert the XP cost to a DC increase at the rate given in the mitigating factor.
ChrisDemiLich 03-10-08, 02:32 AM	Thank you. That was very helpful. I appreciate it. Anyway, here is the spell I actually came up with. Create World Conjuration(Creation) Spellcraft DC: 51 Components: V,S, XP Casting Time: 1 standard action Range:1800 ft Effect: A demiplane with radius 1800 ft., coterminus with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No You create a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. You can only cast this spell while on the Ethereal Plane. The demiplane is formed immediately, centered on your location. The character determines the environment in the demiplane when he or she first casts create world, reflecting most any desire he or she can visualize. The caster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the shape of the general terrain. The Demiplane contains simple, non-sentient life-forms of your choosing, up to and including normal non-magical plants, grasses, vegetables, trees, weeds, and ferns, as well as simple animals such as those described in chapter 2 of the Monter's manual, up to a Challenge Rating of 1/3. The demiplane is protected against divination magic. Any divination spells used, including through the use of the epic divination seed is subject to an opposed caster level check in order to succeed. To Develop: 459,000 gp; 10 days; 18360 XP. Seed: Genesis Seed(DC 81), Conceal Seed(DC 23), Life Seed(DC 27). Factors: Increase area 1000% +40, 1 action casting time +20. Mitigating factors: Burn 10,000 XP -100, Backlash damage 40d6 -40
Thane26425 03-10-08, 11:51 PM	Not bad, though personally I would increase the Xp cost and lower the backlash damage. Of course if your particular caster can actually survive a maximum hit from that spell, good for them.
ChrisDemiLich 03-11-08, 12:56 AM	My wizard has over 200 HP thanks to the requisite five wishes, And epic items granting extra Con. The spell might kill me if it somehow manages to roll max damage, but thankfully, that is pretty rare.
Paladin's Pride 03-17-08, 01:37 AM	Is there some reason you wanted this to be a one action casting time? With a 10,000 XP burn on it you can't be planning on casting it that often. I guess theoretically if you could get your opponent onto the ethereal plane you could use this as a no-save imprisonment spell where everything in 1,800 feet ends up trapped in a demiplane with no escape route other than plane-shifting. Anyhow, I assume you have your reasons, but care to let us in on them?
Thane26425 03-17-08, 10:02 AM	Is there some reason you wanted this to be a one action casting time? With a 10,000 XP burn on it you can't be planning on casting it that often. I guess theoretically if you could get your opponent onto the ethereal plane you could use this as a no-save imprisonment spell where everything in 1,800 feet ends up trapped in a demiplane with no escape route other than plane-shifting. Anyhow, I assume you have your reasons, but care to let us in on them? Good point, missed that myself. Lengthening the casting time should also lower that backlash. As it is, you get a huge area. One casting of this spell gives you about 3736 acres, or about 5 square miles, provided you use the interior of the sphere like a Dyson sphere. That's a lot of land. Besides, you might even get an advantage over invaders that way who arrive and aren't used to the architecture.
ChrisDemiLich 03-18-08, 01:36 PM	In Epic level, 10,000 exp is not to difficult to obtain. I usually have an extra 40-50 thousand spare for making magical items or golems anyway. Spend a few minutes in Hell, and you can get it all easily. The spell itself is designed for me to quickly and easily expand the biggest demiplane possible. Like Genesis, recasting it within the same demiplane widens it by half the original radius, so in a short time, you can have a Demiplane of really epic proportions. The plane can also be used for defense, or offense. In an instant, you can create a demiplane, conforming to your specifications, which cannot be scryed unless the opponent beats a caster level check. And like you mentioned, you could trap enemies in a space which you designed, which conforms to your will, and which is suited for you. Is your enemy a powerful evil demigod of fire? Create a demiplane which is water based, and good aligned. Make it so that eveything in the environment is suited to you, and opposed to your enemy. In an instant, a terribly challenging battle has swayed in your favor.
rob_douglas 03-18-08, 02:30 PM	I have to learn more about this 10,000XP hang out. At 50th level, you have to face a CR 49 creature to get 10,000XP. Or 10 CR43 creatures. That is per PC. To be worth their CR, that means you face a 25% reduction in resources, to fight those creatures. That is a significant hit. If you are getting free 10,000XP bumps for lazing around Hell, someone is not doing their job right. ROB
Tshern 03-18-08, 08:10 PM	And having 40k-50k worth of experience just hanging implies very high levels indeed.
ChrisDemiLich 03-23-08, 07:00 AM	Raid Asmodius's Stronghold. Go attack Tiamat head on and kill a couple of her Avatars. We've already killed Beelzebub, The Hag Countess, and Mephistopheles. We also managed to slay Vecna. Lets not forget the massive number of epic level minions they kept as elite bodyguards, or pets. We never did kill Asmodius, he was too well prepared and managed to escape. We still got experience from him for Beating him and making him flee. Don't forget. Hell has alot of devils. In our battle to raid Asmodius, we killed over a thousand individual devils. All of them had PC levels added into the Monster Manual Stats. And all were well into epic levels. Our DM rocks. He used a program he wrote to equate the turns of each enemy, roll dice, and then he could plot their actions. (He works as a programmer) Tiamat had advanced Dragons as her consorts. We killed them all. Asmodius had an enslaved Hecatonchieres as a personal watchdog. We killed that. One thing I did forget to mention.. Our entire party consists of 3 Demi-liches. I am a Mystic Theurge who specializes in epic spells, and creating golems/Collossi. My friend is a True Necromancer, who controls a sizeable army of undead. And the third is a cleric who specializes in Harm spells, and manages to keep us all well healed, and protected. And I wonder, would that be harmed and protected for undead? XP
SokenzanMarauder 03-23-08, 07:18 AM	You should tell your DM about the Immortal's Handbook. If not for that book at least for the Beastiary.
The_Black_Hand 03-23-08, 11:57 PM	Raid Asmodius's Stronghold. Go attack Tiamat head on and kill a couple of her Avatars. We've already killed Beelzebub, The Hag Countess, and Mephistopheles. We also managed to slay Vecna. Lets not forget the massive number of epic level minions they kept as elite bodyguards, or pets. We never did kill Asmodius, he was too well prepared and managed to escape. We still got experience from him for Beating him and making him flee. Don't forget. Hell has alot of devils. In our battle to raid Asmodius, we killed over a thousand individual devils. All of them had PC levels added into the Monster Manual Stats. And all were well into epic levels. Our DM rocks. He used a program he wrote to equate the turns of each enemy, roll dice, and then he could plot their actions. (He works as a programmer) Tiamat had advanced Dragons as her consorts. We killed them all. Asmodius had an enslaved Hecatonchieres as a personal watchdog. We killed that. One thing I did forget to mention.. Our entire party consists of 3 Demi-liches. I am a Mystic Theurge who specializes in epic spells, and creating golems/Collossi. My friend is a True Necromancer, who controls a sizeable army of undead. And the third is a cleric who specializes in Harm spells, and manages to keep us all well healed, and protected. And I wonder, would that be harmed and protected for undead? XP I have to ask a few things here. What level are your Characters? Are you guys using the seriously weak and inconsistant stats for those Dieities/Demon Princes that are put out by WoTC?
ChrisDemiLich 03-25-08, 02:49 PM	Our levels are 45, 47, and 51. And our DM uses the Book of vile darkness for the BASE devil Prince stats, and the Deities and Demigods book for the BASE god stats. Note I said BASE. He changed all of them to include epic level feats and progressions. It made them a lot harder to fight.
IceFractal 03-26-08, 04:17 AM	By changing it to an 11-minute casting time though, you could reduce the XP cost to 6,000 xp. Are you really earning more than 4,000 xp every 10 minutes?
ChrisDemiLich 03-26-08, 04:49 AM	I have an epic level spell that can one hit kill anything with less then 600 Hit points. Making exp is not the real issue.
The_Black_Hand 03-27-08, 11:46 PM	Our levels are 45, 47, and 51. And our DM uses the Book of vile darkness for the BASE devil Prince stats, and the Deities and Demigods book for the BASE god stats. Note I said BASE. He changed all of them to include epic level feats and progressions. It made them a lot harder to fight. Glad to hear that. I had my players (all around 35, 6 of them) and they were barely able to take down a Rank 5 Diety.