Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeathXI 03-29-07, 07:31 AM	This might belong in the Feats, but since it's more relative to the Epic levels, I thought I'd post it here. Innate spell (Tome and Blood, FRCS) lets you take a spell you can cast, and turn it into a Spell like ability usable once per round -- sacrificing a spell slot eight levels higher than it in order to do so. Now, my question is as follows: I want an Intensified (Epic Metamagic) Disintigrate spell. That's a level 13 spell. So it would take a level 21 slot to use it. HOWEVER, I have improved metamagic, 6 times. This brings it down to a 7th level spell, requiring only a 15h level slot to use it. Which I have enough Improved Spell Capacity for, assume. So my questions are as follows: Can you use Metamagic spells for Innate spells? You can cast them, so it meets the criteria, yes? You can with the Archmage High Arcana, after all. If you can, does Improved Metamagic apply? Lastly, if I have Automatic Quicken as well, does that carry over to the spell like ability, or is the casting time back up to 1 standard action? Thanks in Advance (Note: If this is absolutely the wrong place, let me know and I'll repost it in the Feats area, or move it...or something, just let me know how :) )
rob_douglas 03-29-07, 11:17 AM	This is definitely the right place. I would have thought no originally, but since Archmage High Arcana allows you to use a metamagicked spell as the SLA, I see no problem with that being the rule for Hierophants and Innate Spell. However, Improved Metamagic would not apply. That only applies when you cast spells. It also does not apply when you are crafting items. AutoQuicken also does not apply. After you take Innate Spell though, you could then take Quicken Spell Like Ability. But that makes it Quickened only 3/day. I also put forth a generic Metamagic SLA feat some time ago, that you could use with Intensify, if you only wanted to have Disintegrate as your SLA, and Intensify it 3/day: Metamagic to SLAs Choose a Metamagic feat and an SLA that you have. You can apply the given feat up to 3 times per day to your SLA, to the limit of the number of times you can cast that SLA. You can take this feat multiple times for each Metamagic, or each SLA. You can apply your uses simultaneously, such as a Quicken, Empowered Maximized SLA if you have the feats, or you can spread them out. Each use is counted separately against each feat's limit of 3 per day. Take the level of the Metamagic, and the Spell level to find the minimum caster level required to cast that SLA with that Metamagic: Metamagic (X) +0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 1st 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 2nd 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 3rd 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 4th 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 5th 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 6th 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 7th 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 8th 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 9th 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 CL = Caster Level SL = Spell level affected X = Metamgic bonus factors CL = (SL+X)*2 SL = CL/2 - X X = CL/2-SL Metamagic Feats +0 == Black Lore of Moil CA Not allowed Born of the 3 Thunders CA Requires Energy Sub (Electric) SLA, Know (nature) 4 ranks Cooperative CA Not allowed Energy Substitution CA Requires Know (arcana) 5 ranks Lord of the Uttercold CA Requires Know (arcana (9 ranks), En Sub (cold), cold SLA Sanctum CA Requires another Metamagic SLA +1 == Consecrate CD,BoED Good Corrupt CD,BoVD Evil Enlarge PHB Extend PHB Purify BoED Good Rapid CD Not needed for an SLA? - am I right, all are Standard actions? Still PHB Not needed for an SLA Silent PHB Not needed for an SLA Nonlethal Substitution CA,BoED Requires Know (arcana) 5 ranks, any Metamagic SLA Sculpt CA Requires any Metamagic SLA Transdimensional CA Violate BoVD +2 == Boost BoVD Same as Heighten, different name Empower PHB Explosive CA Fortify CA Can only be used for +4 CL Heighten CA Can only be used for +2 DC Reach CD Split Ray CA Requires another Metamagic SLA +3 == Chain CA Requires another Metamagic SLA Delay CA Requires another Metamagic SLA Maximize PHB CA says this should only be a +2 equivalent?!? Repeat CA Widen PHB +4 == Energy Admixture CA Requires Energy Substitution SLA feat first Enhance ELH Requires Maximize Quicken PHB Twin CA Requires another Metamagic SLA +6 == Persistent CA +7 == Intensify ELH Requires Empower, Maximize, Know (arcana) 30 ranks +X == Improved Heighten ELH You can add as much to your save DC as you CL will allow above
DeathXI 03-30-07, 01:18 PM	Damn, I was hoping at the very least my improved metamagic would apply, since being a wizard i thought part of gaining the feat might be casting the spell, and to cast it I have to prepare it, and improved metamagic is part of the preperation process :) Thanks though :)
DeathXI 03-30-07, 01:20 PM	Out of curiosity, where'd you get Hierophant...I was talking about the Innate spell feat, I didn't mention Hierophant anywhere at all.
rob_douglas 03-30-07, 01:34 PM	You mentioned High Arcana, and Hierophant has a similar ability, so I was tying that in to the discussion. ROB
DeathXI 03-30-07, 02:09 PM	Ahh, Makes sense :) I'll have to look at it then.
runestar 03-31-07, 09:53 PM	I also lack faith in your ability to damage any epic foe with a 6th lv spell...:P
DeathXI 04-01-07, 10:16 AM	Disintegrate has far more uses than simply attacking foes.