Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MalanisLeallow 04-14-08, 02:13 AM	Hi, So, I think that I understand the rules for epic level multi-class characters and their class abilities (spells, specifically), but I haven't been able to find any source that would come out and say it clearly, so, I figured I'd double-check my understanding with you. Here's a couple of examples, if someone could just tell me whether I have it right or wrong (and if wrong, why), then I think I'll have a pretty good grasp on it. 1) A 20th level fighter decides to take up magic. He gains spells known and spells per day (because despite being an epic character, he is not an epic wizard), and uses the wizard attack bonus and saves, not the epic attack bonus and saves. 2) A Wizard 5/Cleric 5/ Mystic Theurge 10 decides to focus on being a wizard. Since his cleric spellcasting is effectively 15th, he can take 5 more levels in cleric before he stops gaining spells known/ spells per day. At that point he could take 5 levels in wizard while continuing to gain spells known/ spells per day. 3) A rakshasa PC casts spells as a 7th level sorcerer. Even though his racial hit dice don't count against him as far as epic attack and epic saves, it does mean that when he's a rakshasa 3/sorcerer 18 he won't gain new spells known/ spells per day Thanks for helping me make sure I understand. ELH is a little vague on these points.
runestar 04-14-08, 03:26 AM	1) A 20th level fighter decides to take up magic. He gains spells known and spells per day (because despite being an epic character, he is not an epic wizard), and uses the wizard attack bonus and saves, not the epic attack bonus and saves. You use epic bab/saves after lv20. So a fighter20 who takes 1 lv of wiz gets +1 ebab, not +0bab and +2will (what 1 lv of wizard would normally grant). The 2nd lv of wizard would grant +1 to all saves, and so on and so forth. 2) A Wizard 5/Cleric 5/ Mystic Theurge 10 decides to focus on being a wizard. Since his cleric spellcasting is effectively 15th, he can take 5 more levels in cleric before he stops gaining spells known/ spells per day. At that point he could take 5 levels in wizard while continuing to gain spells known/ spells per day. Correct. So at lv30, when he is a wizard10/cleric10/MT10, he will have effective spellcaster lv20 in both sides. 3) A rakshasa PC casts spells as a 7th level sorcerer. Even though his racial hit dice don't count against him as far as epic attack and epic saves, it does mean that when he's a rakshasa 3/sorcerer 18 he won't gain new spells known/ spells per day This is where some ambiguity presents itself, because even in these boards, there is some disagreement as to when epic progression rules kick in, and whether racial HD factors in or not. It does not help that the various splatbooks with epic npcs are inconsistent when it comes to statting them out, so there is little/no empirical evidence to support our stances. I am personally of the opinion that racial HD counts (but not LA). So in the case of a rakshasha sorc, his 14th lv of sorc will cause epic progression rules to occur. As such, he is character lv20 as a rakshasa with 7 outsider HD and 13 lvs of sorc, and his 14th lv of sorc will grant +1 ebab, not +1bab and +1 will save. But otherwise, yes you are right in that a rakshasa/sorc14 will not learn any new spells, because he already has the spellcasting capabilities of a 20th lv sorc at sorc13.
MalanisLeallow 04-14-08, 03:31 AM	Thanks for clarifying. I think I have a pretty good idea now.