Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BillTheManiac 12-01-07, 01:10 PM	BEAST LORD Size/Type: Colossal Fey (Incorporeal) Hit Dice: 50d6+700 (875 hp) Initiative: +10 Speed: fly 30 ft. (perfect) Armor Class: 50 (+46 deflection, -8 size, +2 dex) Base Attack/Grapple: +25/- Attack: Incorporeal Touch +23 melee touch (5d8+1d1 Wisdom) Full Attack: 3 Incorporeal Touches +23 melee touch (5d8+1d1 Wisdom) or Throw Elemental +23 ranged touch (24d8 and summon) Space/Reach: 30 ft./30 ft. Special Attacks: Throw elemental, summon primal elemental, incorporeal touch, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Beastly Interior, low-light vision, blindsight 1000 ft., DR 30/epic and cold iron, fast healing 30 Saves: Fort +42, Ref +41, Will +38 Abilities: Str -, Dex 15, Con 38, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 23 Skills: Spot +52, Listen +52, Survival +52, Knowledge (Nature) +53, Handle Animal +59, Intimidate +59 Feats: Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (Incorporeal Touch), Weapon Focus (Elemental), Greater Weapon Focus (Incorporeal Touch), Greater Weapon Focus (Elemental) Feats bought with epic feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Track Epic Feats: Epic Weapon Focus (Incorporeal Touch), Epic Weapon Focus (Elemental), Epic Will, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Superior Initiative, Terrifying Rage Environment: Any land Organization: Solitary or with various elementals Challenge Rating: 29 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral Advancement: 51-100 HD (Colossal) This ghostly creature takes the shape of a giant ape, beyond that it has the constantly-changing attributes of many different forms of nature. One moment it may have porcupine spines instead of fur, with tigers for feat and claws covered in poison-dripping thorns. The next it is covered in scales, and impales enemies on its birdlike feet. The Beast Lord is a wrathful spirit of unknown origin. It was originally thought to be unique, but researchers later discovered others. It appears there is one in every crystal sphere in every material plane in the multiverse. The researchers then believed it had some reincarnation ability. It turned out they were false. When destroyed, the beast lord's soul dissipates into lore that can appear in the mind of powerful druids in the same sphere. The lore allows them to develop an epic spell to create the Beast Lord. COMBAT Throw Elemental (Su): The Beast Lord summons an elder elemental of any type in its claw and throws it at an enemy within 120 ft. as a full-round action. This is a ranged touch attack (+23 bonus). It deals 24d8 damage of fire for fire elementals, magic adamantine bludgeoning for earth elementals, sonic for air elementals, and cold for water elementals. Whether or not the attack hits, the elemental appears in an adjacent 3 square by 3 square area of your choice. If the only possible areas contain creatures, then the elemental appears grappling those creatures. If there are actually no possible areas, the beast lord cannot make that attack (flying elementals can appear above the target). Summoned elementals last for 1 hour each. Summon Elemental Monolith(Sp): The Beast Lord can summon an elemental monolith as a full-round action. It requires only a very small amount of concentration, such that the Beast Lord may only have one, but spends no actions. This is the equivalent of a 12th level spell at caster level 37. Beastly Interior (Su): Any creature in the same space as the Beast Lord at the end of the Beast Lord’s turn takes 4d6 electricity damage, 2d6 magic cold iron piercing slashing damage, and 2d6 magic silver piercing damage. Incorporeal Touch (Su): The Beast Lord has 3 bites, claws, or other natural attacks which work as incorporeal touch attacks, dealing 5d8 damage and 1d2 Wisdom damage. Bestial Berserk (Su): Whenever reduced to half hit points (437 hp currently) or 0 Wisdom (in which case it does not fall comatose as normal), the Beast Lord gains +10 on attack rolls and +4d8 damage to all attacks, but takes a -2 penalty to AC. This is treated as a rage for the purpose of feats that give benefits during a rage. Unearthly Grace (Su): The Beast Lord adds its Charisma modifier as a bonus on all her saving throws, and as a deflection bonus to her Armor Class. The Beast Lord's deflection bonus is increased by +40 (The statistics block already reflects these bonuses). Spell-like Abilities (Sp): At will – Empowered Storm of Veangence , Maximized Shambler, Quickened Earthquake, Maximized Sunburst, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Quickened Summon Nature’s Ally IX. Caster level 37th. Can you help me balance this thing? Yeah, this guy was entirely based on the coolness of throwing elementals at people. Copy Creature: Beast Lord Conjuration (Summoning) Spellcraft DC: 390 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 minute Range: 75 ft. Effect: One Beast Lord Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No To Develop: Summon (DC 14), summon a creature with 29 CR (+54 DC), summon a creature of a type other then outsider (+10 DC), permanent (x10) Mitigation: Summoned creature does not automatically serve caster (ad hoc x1/2). Other mitigation factors are left to the caster. This spell brings a powerful force of nature to the world - the Beast Lord. The spell is mutable, and different spellcasters can cast it differently based on their particular talents. The Beast Lord appears immediately and is under no compulsion to serve the caster, though it often does, at least for a little while. Some characters recieve the inspiration to create this spell. This takes the form of a reduction to the research cost as if the Spellcraft DC was decreased by 25. This can never reduce the effective Spellcraft DC below 0, though it can actually reduce it to.
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 01:57 PM	A few thoughts. It's a 'beast lord', but other than summon nature's ally, has nothing to do with beasts. Incorporeal is barely any defense into epic, with several cheap options for players to deal with it. (Not saying take it away, just that you can't rely on the incorporeality to carry the CR a few points up like you can in non-epic) The attack value of the touch attack is off...it should suffer a -8 size penalty. It also is way to low to merit CR 29. The save DC is the same as those of CR 20-21 creatures, for a CR 29 you'd want closer to DC 50. It's AC is far too low for a CR 20 creature (who range from 37-40), I'd aim around 50-52 for CR 29. Its saving throws are around those of a CR 20 creature. Its hit points are around that of a CR 23 creature. Although the ability says summon primal elemental, it summons an elemental monolith. I'd change the name. And I'd eliminate the clause that says it needs to spend any action to maintain it. The throw elemental ability is one of the coolest ideas I've seen in a creature, and certainly the best ability this creature has. I'd eliminate the 1 minute time limit on them. To be honest, elder elementals are not even a bump in the road for 29th level characters....tracking their limited lifespan is something I wouldn't bother forcing DMs to do. Let them stay indefinitely. Or an hour. Also, I'd change the damage from the attack to deal 24d8 (an elder elemental's HD) rather than a flat 1/2 hp. And...eliminate the reflex save, make the attack a ranged touch attack. Ring of Evasion is way too cheap and every epic character will be sporting one if they don't have it via class progression. If you plan on keeping this guy above CR 25, I would turn every single one of his 1/day SLAs into At will SLAs. Finally, I would make this entity an outsider or elemental rather than fey. Fey HD are just too weak and you aren't really emphasizing anything fey-like in this creature. If you look at the fey in the MMV, the frostwind virago has 30HD and CR 16, the Master of the Wild Hunt has 32HD and CR 22. It also has ability scores far beyond your Beast Lord, even beyond a balor. If you plan on sticking with fey HD, I'd suggest a minimum of 40, and probably 50HD for your Beast Lord to keep a CR 29.
BillTheManiac 12-01-07, 04:57 PM	A few thoughts. It's a 'beast lord', but other than summon nature's ally, has nothing to do with beasts. It was originally just a filler name. It sounds cool though. The idea is that it's bestial and represents the large destructive elements of nature. Incorporeal is barely any defense into epic, with several cheap options for players to deal with it. (Not saying take it away, just that you can't rely on the incorporeality to carry the CR a few points up like you can in non-epic) The attack value of the touch attack is off...it should suffer a -8 size penalty. It also is way to low to merit CR 29. The save DC is the same as those of CR 20-21 creatures, for a CR 29 you'd want closer to DC 50. It's AC is far too low for a CR 20 creature (who range from 37-40), I'd aim around 50-52 for CR 29. Its saving throws are around those of a CR 20 creature. Its hit points are around that of a CR 23 creature. I thought it had a lot of hit points. Guess I was wrong. Going to reduce the CR and add stuff to help it. Although the ability says summon primal elemental, it summons an elemental monolith. I'd change the name. And I'd eliminate the clause that says it needs to spend any action to maintain it. Yeah, I wanted something that meant there'd be only one at a time, The throw elemental ability is one of the coolest ideas I've seen in a creature, and certainly the best ability this creature has. I'd eliminate the 1 minute time limit on them. To be honest, elder elementals are not even a bump in the road for 29th level characters....tracking their limited lifespan is something I wouldn't bother forcing DMs to do. Let them stay indefinitely. Or an hour. Indefinitely would allow it to build a giant army that lasts forever. An hour works, though. Also, I'd change the damage from the attack to deal 24d8 (an elder elemental's HD) rather than a flat 1/2 hp. And...eliminate the reflex save, make the attack a ranged touch attack. Ring of Evasion is way too cheap and every epic character will be sporting one if they don't have it via class progression. It's not a save-half effect though. It's save-all already. If you plan on keeping this guy above CR 25, I would turn every single one of his 1/day SLAs into At will SLAs. Finally, I would make this entity an outsider or elemental rather than fey. Fey HD are just too weak and you aren't really emphasizing anything fey-like in this creature. If you look at the fey in the MMV, the frostwind virago has 30HD and CR 16, the Master of the Wild Hunt has 32HD and CR 22. It also has ability scores far beyond your Beast Lord, even beyond a balor. If you plan on sticking with fey HD, I'd suggest a minimum of 40, and probably 50HD for your Beast Lord to keep a CR 29. I was going to reduce the CR, but the lure of the at-will abilities has caused me to instead increase the HD.
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 05:14 PM	It was originally just a filler name. It sounds cool though. The idea is that it's bestial and represents the large destructive elements of nature. I thought it had a lot of hit points. Guess I was wrong. Going to reduce the CR and add stuff to help it. While it doesn't help much for epic creatures, checking out the Hypertext SRD (www.d20srd.org)'s monster filter can help you easily compare monster stats within a given CR. Even still, compare this guy to the wyrm and great wyrm dragons. He falls short and he doesn't have integrated sorcerer casting. Yeah, I wanted something that meant there'd be only one at a time, Indefinitely would allow it to build a giant army that lasts forever. An hour works, though. If the monsters stay indefinitely, they are part of their own CR, and not included in the Beast Lords. But even still, unless you had a hundred or more, they aren't going to be a serious threat to 29th level adventurers. I'm thinking that an elder elemental will last no more than two rounds with 29th level characters. Even hordes of them will perish swiftly to mass kill spells, Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attacks and the other resources an epic level party has at their disposal. It's not a save-half effect though. It's save-all already. Good point, I'd still make it a ranged touch attack though. Touch AC is usually lower than Reflex save in epic levels. I was going to reduce the CR, but the lure of the at-will abilities has caused me to instead increase the HD. :) Be interested to see how far you kick him up. The ability scores could use a giant boost too.
BillTheManiac 12-01-07, 05:27 PM	While it doesn't help much for epic creatures, checking out the Hypertext SRD (www.d20srd.org)'s monster filter can help you easily compare monster stats within a given CR. Even still, compare this guy to the wyrm and great wyrm dragons. He falls short and he doesn't have integrated sorcerer casting. I use that website, never seen the monster filter. If the monsters stay indefinitely, they are part of their own CR, and not included in the Beast Lords. But even still, unless you had a hundred or more, they aren't going to be a serious threat to 29th level adventurers. I'm thinking that an elder elemental will last no more than two rounds with 29th level characters. Even hordes of them will perish swiftly to mass kill spells, Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attacks and the other resources an epic level party has at their disposal. Not a power issue, just the fact that I don't want to worry about it as a backstory thing. Good point, I'd still make it a ranged touch attack though. Touch AC is usually lower than Reflex save in epic levels. did that. :) Be interested to see how far you kick him up. The ability scores could use a giant boost too. After the change the Dex is 5 points higher then great wyrm gold. Used to be 1 point higher. The Con is quite high, and I'm pretty sure 875 hit points will last for a bit, combined with DR and fast healing. I don't exactly see the need for higher Int and Wis, unless we want to protect him from ability damage kills. I'm just putting in a new ability that has a nasty surprise in it for people who try that...
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 05:51 PM	Do you see the monster filter now? If not, it is off to the right side, under Related Links. Your guy looks much tougher now, although I am not sure he's more than a CR 27 comparing him to a great wyrm gold dragon. I would make the rage attack bonus +10, and increase the caster level of the SLAs to around...37. This avoids them becoming the immediate dispel victims of the PCs. And possibly add the fey quality 'unearthly grace', which adds Cha mod to AC and saves. (obviously you've got a better deflection bonus to AC going for it, but the boost in saves would be helpful) Finally, it isn't clear to me...if the elemental hits the player, does it still appear? I definitely think it should.
BillTheManiac 12-01-07, 06:14 PM	Do you see the monster filter now? If not, it is off to the right side, under Related Links. I saw it, but I couldn't get it to work. Your guy looks much tougher now, although I am not sure he's more than a CR 27 comparing him to a great wyrm gold dragon. I would make the rage attack bonus +10, and increase the caster level of the SLAs to around...37. This avoids them becoming the immediate dispel victims of the PCs. Good idea. Have to eat dinner now... And possibly add the fey quality 'unearthly grace', which adds Cha mod to AC and saves. (obviously you've got a better deflection bonus to AC going for it, but the boost in saves would be helpful) Because the AC is already correct, I can just reduce the deflection bonus by that amount. Isn't unearthly grace a deflection bonus already? Finally, it isn't clear to me...if the elemental hits the player, does it still appear? I definitely think it should. Yes, it does. I'll change the language to be more clear.
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 07:26 PM	I saw it, but I couldn't get it to work. Hmm. It works for me. Because the AC is already correct, I can just reduce the deflection bonus by that amount. Isn't unearthly grace a deflection bonus already? Yes, you misunderstood me. I meant your creature already has a better deflection bonus to AC, so it doesn't get any benefit out of that portion of the ability (they'd overlap), but the boost to saves still helps.
BillTheManiac 12-02-07, 09:50 AM	Hmm. It works for me. hmmm... I'll try it again. Yes, you misunderstood me. I meant your creature already has a better deflection bonus to AC, so it doesn't get any benefit out of that portion of the ability (they'd overlap), but the boost to saves still helps. I just increased the bonus so its dependent, making it a more interesting monster.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-02-07, 10:35 AM	I like the basis for this creature, and the idea of hurling elementals at my PCs makes me giggle inside.:D Weapon Focus....Elemental...:D I personally think that the ability damage (drain?) caused by its incorporeal touch attack should be more random (1d6?), or perhaps give it the ability to heal itself for every 2 Wis it drains from its targets, somewhat like a few of the other creatures in the ELH.
BillTheManiac 12-02-07, 12:49 PM	I like the basis for this creature, and the idea of hurling elementals at my PCs makes me giggle inside.:D Weapon Focus....Elemental...:D I personally think that the ability damage (drain?) caused by its incorporeal touch attack should be more random (1d6?), or perhaps give it the ability to heal itself for every 2 Wis it drains from its targets, somewhat like a few of the other creatures in the ELH. What's the worst that can happen? 1 round, touch-touch-touch, 3d6. Do items protect against death by ability damage? I don't think they do. Could get a little brutal, but the PCs deserve it. I'm not going to tie the healing to it, because the flavor is a touch that causes madness, not so much stealing of energy like undead. I want to make it 1d2, though, so it's not his primary attack until he berserks.
Starmage21 12-04-07, 12:48 PM	I have to give kudos for throwing elementals as well. Its innovative to mix up a calling(summoning or conjuring?) effect along with some direct damage. elementals have physical forms though, shouldnt they take some damage as well as they collide with the PC? Also, this guy can do alot of things, and 4 PCs can only do so much at once. That wisdom damage with no save is going to keep the healer busy with restoration spells instead of healing the actual HP damage the thing is causing. The Elemental Monolith is going to create additional mayhem for the PCs to deal with as well, since he's probobly going to want to move into a flanking position with either the elder elementals or the beast lord himself. Additionally, you cannot judge the player's ability to deal with the additional creatures based on optimized characters, even though for your group that may be exactly what this creature will have to deal with. Some variation of the Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue 29th level party should burn about 25% of their resources against this thing in an acid test. SLAs generally dont come pre-equipped with metamagic, but I dont see a real problem with it, but once your players see it, expect them to try the same thing rather than burning feats on Quicken SLA or similar. All-in-all NOICE
BillTheManiac 12-04-07, 05:31 PM	I have to give kudos for throwing elementals as well. Its innovative to mix up a calling(summoning or conjuring?) effect along with some direct damage. elementals have physical forms though, shouldnt they take some damage as well as they collide with the PC? Also, this guy can do alot of things, and 4 PCs can only do so much at once. That wisdom damage with no save is going to keep the healer busy with restoration spells instead of healing the actual HP damage the thing is causing. The Elemental Monolith is going to create additional mayhem for the PCs to deal with as well, since he's probobly going to want to move into a flanking position with either the elder elementals or the beast lord himself. Additionally, you cannot judge the player's ability to deal with the additional creatures based on optimized characters, even though for your group that may be exactly what this creature will have to deal with. Some variation of the Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue 29th level party should burn about 25% of their resources against this thing in an acid test. SLAs generally dont come pre-equipped with metamagic, but I dont see a real problem with it, but once your players see it, expect them to try the same thing rather than burning feats on Quicken SLA or similar. All-in-all NOICE The elementals are cushioned by the PC's squishy body. :D How do players get SLAs?
Kain_Darkwind 12-04-07, 11:17 PM	The elementals are cushioned by the PC's squishy body. :D How do players get SLAs? When you allow them to play Beast Lords, obviously. Incidentally, we've used pre-metamagiked SLAs at DF for awhile.
BillTheManiac 12-05-07, 09:08 AM	When you allow them to play Beast Lords, obviously. Incidentally, we've used pre-metamagiked SLAs at DF for awhile. Yeah, this guy is already quite feat-starved on non-epic feats. BTW, what epic feats should I get him? Oh, and does he need true seeing or something similar? As it stands he dies to improved invisibility.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-05-07, 10:28 AM	There are several spells that would be useful as SLAs. Dragonsight is one of them. That foils even those rogues with insane Hide checks.:D
BillTheManiac 12-05-07, 03:44 PM	There are several spells that would be useful as SLAs. Dragonsight is one of them. That foils even those rogues with insane Hide checks.:D What book is dragonsight from?
Kain_Darkwind 12-05-07, 04:51 PM	Yeah, this guy is already quite feat-starved on non-epic feats. BTW, what epic feats should I get him? Oh, and does he need true seeing or something similar? As it stands he dies to improved invisibility. I'd go with blindsight 1000 ft. myself.
Avatar of Kokusho 12-05-07, 06:20 PM	Dragonsight's from the Spell Compendium.
BillTheManiac 12-05-07, 08:46 PM	Dragonsight's from the Spell Compendium. What book is it actually from? Not everyone has the spell compendium. Some of us just have all the Completes and a few other relevant books. I don't want to do it because it seems somewhat dragon-themed, and this guy is not dragony. Plus his spot bonus is +52.
Kain_Darkwind 12-05-07, 08:56 PM	What book is it actually from? Not everyone has the spell compendium. Some of us just have all the Completes and a few other relevant books. I don't want to do it because it seems somewhat dragon-themed, and this guy is not dragony. Plus his spot bonus is +52. Draconomicon. 5th level personal range bard or wizard/sor spell. 1 minute per level duration. It gives 4x human lowlight, darkvision with 10 ft. per caster level, blindsense at 5ft. per caster level. It would be a poor choice for a base creature, considering you could design them with blindsense, darkvision and lowlight vision if you so chose.
BillTheManiac 12-05-07, 09:01 PM	Draconomicon. 5th level personal range bard or wizard/sor spell. 1 minute per level duration. It gives 4x human lowlight, darkvision with 10 ft. per caster level, blindsense at 5ft. per caster level. It would be a poor choice for a base creature, considering you could design them with blindsense, darkvision and lowlight vision if you so chose. That's why making creatures is so much easier then making NPCs.