Epic Psionics and Shared Power Lists? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Psionics and Shared Power Lists? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vengeful_Deity
07-19-07, 09:17 PM Okay, my question is that some PrCs (particularly in Psionics) share the same Power list. For example both Fist of Zuoken and Warmind use the Psionic Warrior for their list of powers. But, it is important to note that both of these PrCs have a different progression at which they gain these powers, and those progressions are different still from the Psionic Warrior.

You can probably see where I am going with this.

Say I have 10 levels of Fist of Zuoken and I reach 21st level. If I take 11 level sof FoZ (by my understanding) I get no new Power Points and no new Powers. But if I take my 21st level as War Mind, what do I do?

10th Level Fist of Zuoken obviously doesn't equal 10 levels of Psionic Warrior, even though they take powers from the same pool. 10 Levels of FoZ would get me 10 powers, highest being 5th.

But 10 Levels of War Mind only gets me 6 powers. Do these levels stack when determining Manifester Level because they take from the same pool? And if so...why the heck don't the progressions stack? And furthermore, what do I do if I start taking levels of Psionic Warrior (which has a slower power progression as it takes 13 levels to get 5th level powers, not 8...but goes beyond 6th level powers)

Because, the way I understand it with Core rules, If you have 20 levels of Sorcerer and you take a PrC you get a "+1 Level of Existing arcane spellcasting class" sort of deal which would stack with your Sorcerer levels in determining Class level (which at epic would only increase your caster level for purposes of caster checks and whatnot). But because the Psionic PrCs don't work like this I'm just confused.
BloodSpill
07-20-07, 03:55 AM Cross-post reply (snarky ftw)

There is no basis for assuming that Fist of Zuoken and Warmind manifesting stack in any way whatsoever.

It would be anagolous to saying Sorcerer and Wizard, or Psion and Wilder stack for manifesting. All they have in common is a power list!

And no, it's not 'fair' in epic, but epic is not exactly well thought out in the first place.

Fist of Zuoken and Warmind are more like the Assassin. The Assassin has its own spell list that does not stack with Wizard or anything else, but a +1 spell casting level PrC would improve the Assassin's spellcasting (up to 10th).

Now what you really want to know is "does my manifester level increase if I take the class to epic?" and, as far as we can tell from reading the rules is "it's not covered. The DM needs to decide whether it's possible to increase ML/CL in one of these Prestige Classes in epic or not".

You gotta admit though, Warmind and Fist of Zuoken are the prestige classes in which having that extra Manifester Level is actually going to matter to you. An Assassin or Blackguard won't much care if he can't progress his caster level beyond tenth.
Vengeful_Deity
07-20-07, 12:04 PM Cross-post reply (snarky ftw)

You gotta admit though, Warmind and Fist of Zuoken are the prestige classes in which having that extra Manifester Level is actually going to matter to you. An Assassin or Blackguard won't much care if he can't progress his caster level beyond tenth.

Yeah, thats why I'm concerned. Increasing manifester level is basically the bread and butter of Psionics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vengeful_Deity 07-19-07, 09:17 PM	Okay, my question is that some PrCs (particularly in Psionics) share the same Power list. For example both Fist of Zuoken and Warmind use the Psionic Warrior for their list of powers. But, it is important to note that both of these PrCs have a different progression at which they gain these powers, and those progressions are different still from the Psionic Warrior. You can probably see where I am going with this. Say I have 10 levels of Fist of Zuoken and I reach 21st level. If I take 11 level sof FoZ (by my understanding) I get no new Power Points and no new Powers. But if I take my 21st level as War Mind, what do I do? 10th Level Fist of Zuoken obviously doesn't equal 10 levels of Psionic Warrior, even though they take powers from the same pool. 10 Levels of FoZ would get me 10 powers, highest being 5th. But 10 Levels of War Mind only gets me 6 powers. Do these levels stack when determining Manifester Level because they take from the same pool? And if so...why the heck don't the progressions stack? And furthermore, what do I do if I start taking levels of Psionic Warrior (which has a slower power progression as it takes 13 levels to get 5th level powers, not 8...but goes beyond 6th level powers) Because, the way I understand it with Core rules, If you have 20 levels of Sorcerer and you take a PrC you get a "+1 Level of Existing arcane spellcasting class" sort of deal which would stack with your Sorcerer levels in determining Class level (which at epic would only increase your caster level for purposes of caster checks and whatnot). But because the Psionic PrCs don't work like this I'm just confused.
BloodSpill 07-20-07, 03:55 AM	Cross-post reply (snarky ftw) There is no basis for assuming that Fist of Zuoken and Warmind manifesting stack in any way whatsoever. It would be anagolous to saying Sorcerer and Wizard, or Psion and Wilder stack for manifesting. All they have in common is a power list! And no, it's not 'fair' in epic, but epic is not exactly well thought out in the first place. Fist of Zuoken and Warmind are more like the Assassin. The Assassin has its own spell list that does not stack with Wizard or anything else, but a +1 spell casting level PrC would improve the Assassin's spellcasting (up to 10th). Now what you really want to know is "does my manifester level increase if I take the class to epic?" and, as far as we can tell from reading the rules is "it's not covered. The DM needs to decide whether it's possible to increase ML/CL in one of these Prestige Classes in epic or not". You gotta admit though, Warmind and Fist of Zuoken are the prestige classes in which having that extra Manifester Level is actually going to matter to you. An Assassin or Blackguard won't much care if he can't progress his caster level beyond tenth.
Vengeful_Deity 07-20-07, 12:04 PM	Cross-post reply (snarky ftw) You gotta admit though, Warmind and Fist of Zuoken are the prestige classes in which having that extra Manifester Level is actually going to matter to you. An Assassin or Blackguard won't much care if he can't progress his caster level beyond tenth. Yeah, thats why I'm concerned. Increasing manifester level is basically the bread and butter of Psionics.