Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karsus the Mad 05-19-05, 06:42 PM	Ad Hoc Factors from Official Material Duration x2 Change duration from permanent to instantaneous [1] Target +40 Determine affected creature type upon casting Area +25 Make area level-dependent +25 Make volume level-dependent Saving Throw +3 +5 DC per 1,000 XP sacrificed upon casting Damage +25 Make damage level-dependent Other +28 Apply effects of Maximize Spell feat 1. Unlike all other factors, this factor is added after any factor used to make the duration permanent: if both factors are used, the resulting multiplier is x10. This is an exception to normal stacking rules. Ad Hoc Mitigating Factors from Official Material -5 Add abstinance component [1] Varies [2] Add material component -20 Add sacrifice component (1 character level) -25 Add sacrifice component (appendage) -50 Add sacrifice component (life of caster) x1/2 Change area from sphere to hemisphere 1. Sample abstinance components: * Caster must abstain from intoxicants and stimulants for one week before casting spell. * Caster must not be the subject of any other spell at the time casting spell. * Caster must not be suffering from ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain at the time of casting, including the effects of sanctified or corrupt spells. 2. Expensive material components mitigate at a rate of -4 DC per 10,000. Minor artifacts offer a mitigating factor equal to 2.5 x the artifact's caster level. Member-Created Factors Casting Time +8 or +15 Reduce from swift action to immediate action Duration +2 Dismissible by caster x2 Increase from instantaneous to 1 round x2 Make duration level-dependent [1] Range x2 Make range level-dependent [1] Area +4 Change area into eight 5-foot cubes x2 Make area level-dependent [1] Damage +6 Change damage from lethal to nonlethal +10 Choose lethal or nonlethal damage upon casting Caster Level +3 +5 CL per 1,000 XP sacrificed upon casting Other +2 or +4 Add alignment descriptor [2] 7 x level Add metamagic feat effects +2 Increase Spellcraft DC to recognize spell by +4 x10 Record on gold tablet [3] x2 Reduce gp and research time by 50% 1. If more than one of these factors are applied to the same spell, their DCs are added together (x4 or x6). This is an exception to normal stacking rules. 2. A spell cannot have conflicting alignment descriptors, such as [Good] and [Evil]. A divine caster reduces the DC adjustment by half when adding her own alignment, but doubles it when adding the alignment(s) opposed to her own. 3. Epic spells can be inscribed on precious metals at least as valuable as gold. Once a spell is so inscribed, another epic spellcaster can learn it without going through the process of development. Studying the tablet in this way requires three times its development time. Unlike a stone tablet, metal tablets such as these are not destroyed when another caster learns from them. Member-Created Mitigating Factors -3 Add backlash component (-1 caster level for 24 hours) -10 Add backlash component (lose arcane or divine spellcasting for 24 hours; per 24 hour period) -2 Add backlash component (2 points of ability burn) -4 Add backlash component (2 points of ability burn to primary spellcasting statistic) -20 Add backlash component (1 point of permanent ability drain) -60 Add backlash component (gain restricted school of magic) -12 Add feat requirement (and -4 DC per prerequisite of feat) -1 Add material component (coldfire; per ounce) -3 Add power component (1 bardic music usage) -7 Add power component (psionic focus; cannot refocus for 24 hours) -5 Add power component (random spell slot or prepared spell) -3 Add power component (1 turn/rebuke attempt) -3 Add power component (1 wild shape usage) Varies Add skill requirement [1] -30 Add sacrifice component (feat) [2] Varies Add sacrifice component (1 character level; DC reduction equal to current level) -1 Add sacrifice component (2 power points) -2 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Concentration) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank primary Knowledge skill) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Psicraft; psionic powers only) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Spellcraft; spells only) -1 Add sacrifice component (2 spell points) (See table) Add sacrifice component (spell slot) [3] Varies Add sacrifice component (spell-like ability) [4] -20 Allow two additional saving throws -2 Decrease area by 50% -2 Decrease range by 50% -8 Caster becomes exhausted -4 Caster becomes fatigued -2 Increase casting time by 1 hour (max 10 hours) [5] -1 Require 5 days of additional research to develop -1 to -10 Require caster to save vs. insanity (DC 15 + mitigating factor) -2 to -20 Caster becomes stunned for 1d10 rounds per -2 1. The caster must have a number of ranks in a specific skill to cast the spell; the mitigating factor is equal to this number. The skill must be intimately connected to the purpose and theme of the spell, and cannot be the caster's (or manifester's) primary Knowledge skill, Psicraft (for epic powers), or Spellcraft (for epic spells). 2. Any feats that use the sacrificed feat as a prerequisite are disabled until the prerequisite is met again. Each feat that will be disabled grants an additional -10 DC. The feat must be a spellcasting feat or be intimately connected to the purpose and theme of the spell. 3. The mitigating factor depends on the level of the sacrificed spell slot. Spell Slot Spellcraft DC Burned Reduction 1st -5 2nd -15 3rd -25 4th -35 5th -45 6th -55 7th -65 8th -75 9th -85 Epic -95 4. One daily use of the spell-like ability is permanently lost; if the ability is usable at will, it is lost completely but mitigates as a spell two levels higher. This mitigating factor is equal to the spell's level x 10 - 3. 5. When increasing the casting time of a spell in order to reduce the Spellcraft DC, a character must first “use up” the maximum of 10 minutes (for a total DC modifier of –20). After that, a character can continue to add hours to the casting time, with a further modifier of –2 per hour, up to the maximum of 10 hours. Only after this period of hours is used up can the caster begin adding days. Casting Factors: These factors and mitigating factors are not part of the development of an epic spell, and only affect the Spellcraft DC of an epic spell at the time of casting. Increase saving throw DC spontaneously: You can increase the saving throw DC of epic spells you cast by increasing the Spellcraft DC required. For every +4 to Spellcraft DC you add, increase the saving throw DC of the spell by +1. Increase Caster Level spontaneously: You can increase the effective Caster Level of epic spells you cast by increasing the Spellcraft DC required. For every +4 you increase the Spellcraft DC, increase the effective Caster Level by +1. Metamagic Enhancement (10 x metamagic level increase): You can cast an epic spell with a metamagic enhancement at the time of casting. The Spellcraft DC to cast the epic spell increases by +10 x level adjustment of the metamagic feat. There are circumstances that are required. For example, you cannot quicken an epic spell if the casting time is more than 1 full round action. Metamagic enhancing an epic spell functions as per the individul feat in every other respect. Caster Dies (spontaneous) (Spellcraft bonus of +10xLevel): While certain spells can be developed with the casters death in mind (-50, at least) a caster can give their own life to make it possible for him to cast a previously uncastable spell. He receives a bonus equal to his level x 10 to his Spellcraft check and dies after the completion of the spell. he canīt be resurrected by any means other than direct divine intervention - not even miracle, wish, or an Epic spell can restore life. Level Burn (spontaneous): The caster gives up a part of himself to allow him too cast a previously uncastable spell. When he gives up a level he is set back one level but his XP is set to the minimum for his new level + all XP he had for his former level. For example, a level 30 caster gives up a level, he previously had 450,000XP. The XP required for level 29 is 406,000XP so he has now 450,000XP -435,000XP (the XP required for level 30) +406000XP = 421000XP. The caster gains a bonus equal to his levelx2 to the Spellcraft check to cast the epic spell. A caster can opt to burn up to 3 levels, no more (if his XP total is actually high enough, he may actually only lose 2 levels effectively). Ability Damage (-4 per ability point): You can lower the Spellcraft DC of epic spells when you cast them by suffering Ability Damage to your primary casting ability. For every ability point (primary casting ability) damaged, decrease the DC by -4. Ability Damage remains for a minimum of 24 hours (in the case of instantaneous spells) and lasts as long as the affected spell is functioning (for longer durations). You cannot suffer Ability Damage below what is required to cast the spell. Specialty Factors and Mitigating Factors Elven High Magic Factors: this factors and mitigating factors are accessible only by PCs with at least one lvl in the Elven High Mage PrC. Permanently burn hp (-5 per hp) Improved lvl burn (-25 per lvl lost) Improved Ability burn (-25 per ability point lost) Improved lose limb (DC - 30): Includes also eyes, ears, mouth and nose. Age Character (-2 per year): aging reversal not possible (not even with fortify seed) Sever Weave Contact (-25 x lvl lost) - 80; spellcaster lose all spellcasting levels but not knowledge(skills and feats remain, but become disabled if caster doesn't meet prerequisites anymore). Character starts as a 1st lvl spellcaster(his choice). Multiclass characater choose at development time which class will be affected. Spells known and spellbooks are not lost. Abyssal Gate (DC - 30): immediately after the casting a gate to the lower planes opens and suck the caster in. The caster must return to his home plane by normal means. The gate remains open for 1d6 rounds Turned To Stone (DC - 45): the caster is turned to stone after completion; equipment is not affected. The caster can be brought back only via Wish spell [/QUOTE]
Banpai 05-20-05, 02:14 AM	Yes it really does look official :D I just have to add this from the SRD: Development Is an Art Many times developing a completely new epic spell requires some guesswork and rule stretching. As with making and pricing magic items, a sort of balancing act is required. Often the description of a seed will need to be stretched for a particular spell. If necessary, assess an “ad hoc” Spellcraft DC adjustment for any effect that cannot be extrapolated from the seeds and factors presented here—the example spells use ad hoc factors frequently. In all cases, the GM determines the actual Spellcraft DC of the new spell Approval This is the final step, and it’s critically important. The epic spell development work and reasoning must be shown to the GM and receive his or her approval. If the GM doesn’t approve, then the epic spell cannot be developed. However, the GM should explain why the epic spell wasn’t approved and possibly offer suggestions on how to create an epic spell that will be acceptable. So now Iīm ready to :fight!: against the :mage: ers EDIT:Many of the factors above can make epic spellcasting much to powerfull so I highlight the most important part.
Starmage21 05-20-05, 10:22 AM	Many people think that when you summon a creature using the Summon seed that it gets a saving throw and SR. The problem is that the Summon Monster spells dont allow saves and SR to the creatures or the people they combat. I beleive that the saving throw and SR were meant only for when you are summoning a specific creature, and I do not apply the save and SR to generic summoned creatures.
Banpai 05-20-05, 03:30 PM	Many people think that when you summon a creature using the Summon seed that it gets a saving throw and SR. The problem is that the Summon Monster spells dont allow saves and SR to the creatures or the people they combat. I beleive that the saving throw and SR were meant only for when you are summoning a specific creature, and I do not apply the save and SR to generic summoned creatures. At first I wanted to agree with you but the seed is very clear about this. If you use the seed the target gets a save, its fair in the end just increase the will save a bit. As a special note, you can still mee special outsiders yourself in their homeplane and make a deal with them, give them eqipment prior to the summoning and the best of it the creature you summon will appear when the spell ends unharmed and without memory of what happened at the place where it was prior to the summoning. BTW you can cheat by summoning another spellcaster (perhaps your parties cleric) let him do its job and when the spell ends he comes back without having lost a single slot. Though if I would DM I would outlaw it :P
Starmage21 05-20-05, 04:23 PM	I wouldnt. I reward intelligence, especially since i would have to approve the spell to begin with.
Belial the Leveler 05-21-05, 09:19 AM	Epic Spell: Summon Self :rolleyes:
Kyuketsukiouji 05-21-05, 09:45 AM	The summon seed is very clear about it, yes, but none of the example spells actually use the save. I only use the save if it's used like Gate, to summon a specific creature.
Banpai 05-21-05, 11:26 AM	So you say that the sample spells are valid examples? I admid that I do have doubts about allowing many of the spells presented in the ELH(crown of vermin seems awfully made out of thin air, there are simply no factors that explain why all those (1000) insects can do what the spells says (though I guess any barbarian with Dr 1/ - could ignore the vermin ....) but most of the time it seems that the seeds werenīt really written that well. For example take the dispel seed and Epic Counterspell, we all know that dispel magic can counter spells if used as counterspell and it seems perfectly reasonable that the dispel seed can do the same, but would it have killed them to include it into the seed? (though you really canīt counterspell with a seed that has 1 minute cating time) Now the Summon Seed, it seems strange that any non-outsider creatures have an explanation where they come from and the spell ends if they are asked to perform a task inimical to their nature. So I can order a Solar to burn down the orphanage all the time but I canīt ask a giant to protect a dwarven camp right ? :confused:
Banpai 10-07-05, 03:19 PM	Sorry but I lost this thread a long time ago and found I recently again and since people are always searching for factors, its good to show it to everyone. (I wonder if they believe this shameless self promotion :schemes: )
vardock 10-08-05, 04:23 PM	In the Book Of Exalted Deeds, they had an epic spell which had some new factors. here they are. abstence compoment(-15dc) must have abstained from all intoxicants and stimulants for at least a week and must not be under the infulence of any spells at the time of casting. sacrifice compoment (-120dc) loose a character level. if your are casting an enchantment spell or the like to give your allies a bonus of some sort, they also looke a level. i made a pair of spells using the level loss compoment. Soul NUKE/BLAST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=514608)
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-08-05, 06:15 PM	You have been proved wrong. AGAIN. According to the OP, the DC is -current level.
Karsus the Mad 10-08-05, 06:53 PM	In the Book Of Exalted Deeds, they had an epic spell which had some new factors. here they are. abstence compoment(-15dc) must have abstained from all intoxicants and stimulants for at least a week and must not be under the infulence of any spells at the time of casting. A -15 for something that characters don't do anyway? I've never actually DM'd a game with a drug addict before. Tho' there was this one alchoholic dwarf...but that can't be held against him, he's a dwarf:P But yes, will add the mitigating factor. sacrifice compoment (-120dc) loose a character level. if your are casting an enchantment spell or the like to give your allies a bonus of some sort, they also looke a level. I thought it was -120 because it was 6 levels. At least that's what someone said over on the other thread. That would equal to -20 per character level lost. I don't have the book though, so can't check it myself. If someone can clarify this, I'll add it to the list. i made a pair of spells using the level loss compoment. Soul NUKE/BLAST (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=514608) The range for your spirit nuke spell should be 12,000. Destroy seed's base range. The area is 11,380 ft. radius (22,760ft. sphere). You have been proved wrong. AGAIN. According to the OP, the DC is -current level. OP? Maybe I'm just tired:P If you're refferring to me, that is. I have that mitigating factor already, but it's a homebrewed one. Any printed ones are welcomed as well (so long as that wouldn't break any copyright laws, or whatever). I think maybe I'll have to rearange this. Have one section for printed factors, if that's allowed. Another for homebrewed.
vardock 10-08-05, 10:27 PM	Teladrin read the whole post before you start writing a reply. I submitted a PRINTED factor. which ,since it was published by Wizards of The Coast Over rules the OP. I was never proven wrong. and you need to read the whole Channel celestial paragon spell and the epic level handbook. the dc was Increased by the number of targets not decreased. the only way that additional people could change the DC is if they are giving spell slots in a ritual. the whole division thing is against the rules for epic spells. all spells must have a set dc before development. also check the book of vile deeds. there are a ton of addactions in there
Karsus the Mad 10-09-05, 05:25 AM	@Vardock: added the abstinence mitigating factor. I fleshed out the description more, and gave it the requirement that the caster must first actually have an addiction to abstain from:P Also thinking of spreading the meaning out to include any vices. What do you think? What context is the abstinence mitigating factor used in? And for anyone concerned: This thread is not here as an arguing grounds. There's already threads in which you two can argue on. But this isn't one of them. There is no right and wrong when it pertains to the purpose of this thread, which is to collect all factors and mitigating factors that people create either on their own, or extrapolate from existing ones. Printed ad hocs are also good, as they give people something to compare. Banpai and myself took the time to both create these, and collect them from the various threads on these boards so that there'd be a single place to find them to make it easier for everyone to enjoy them, and hopefully make their gaming more interesting. Btw, thanks for finding this again Banpai :)
lavekkia 10-09-05, 06:04 PM	mitigating factor Skill point burn - 2 DC per point burnt skill are of knowledge() type spellcraft, psicraft (if you are multiclass or simply idiot :D ) and maybe Concentration (not sure) ban school of magic (as wizard specialization, feats in LEoF not apply) DC - 40 factor add metamagic at development stage (spel is automatically modified) +7 DC per metamagic lvl
Karsus the Mad 10-09-05, 06:23 PM	I remember these from the other thread:) mitigating factor Skill point burn - 2 DC per point burnt skill are of knowledge() type spellcraft, psicraft (if you are multiclass or simply idiot :D ) and maybe Concentration (not sure) ban school of magic (as wizard specialization, feats in LEoF not apply) DC - 40 factor add metamagic at development stage (spel is automatically modified) +7 DC per metamagic lvl To clarify: The skill point burn can only be applied to skills that are important to the caster, correct? So no epic cleric burning a bunch of Knowledge (arcana) to get a big reduction from burning a skill that's not as important to him as Knowledge (religion), which governs his # of epic slots. And the ban school: makes the spell uncastable by a certain specialist, correct?
lavekkia 10-09-05, 06:30 PM	edit: crap and ******** removed Note to myself: TRY TO READ BEFORE POST :D no i would extend to every knowledge() skill for everyone but: knowledge(arcana) gives -3 DC per point burnt to wiz/sorc knowledge(religion) gives -3 DC per point burnt to cleric knowledge(nature) gives -3 DC per point burnt to druid knowledge(psionics) gives -3 DC per point burnt to psion / wilder spellcraft and psicraft could go but i m not so sure Concentration is important for every spellcaster but i m not sure for wu - jen, warloks and other spellcasting core classes sorry :D never used and never studied them :D regarding school ban i was talking about school specialization but i m thinking to rise the factor to 60 or more ( and permit the LEoF feats to let you regain it)
Karsus the Mad 10-09-05, 06:43 PM	spellcraft and psicraft ARE important for the caster. druid would go with knowledge(nature) ? That's what I meant. Spellcraft is important for spellcasters, so would be a viable sacrifice for any spellcaster. Psicraft is important for psions, so is a viable sacrifice for them. The knowledge sacrifice would be more dependent upon class. Arcana for wizards/sorcerers, religion for clerics, nature for druids, psionics for psions. Just wanted to clarify. and to ban a school i mean that a for example wiz/sorc can't use illusion or necromancy spells anymore aside from epic spells. now that i m thinking of it i would rise the DC to 50 or more Ahhhhhhh....the caster permanently gives up access to an entire school...major sacrifice. I would impose that the school can't already be a banned school (such as from specialization), nor can it be the school the caster is specialized in (if any). And what about the spells he/she already knows? Still keep access to them as normal, just can't learn anymore or use items of that school that don't use the spell? Sound good? This is an interesting mitigating factor.
lavekkia 10-09-05, 06:46 PM	immediate action casting time + 35 DC cast spell as an immediate action NOTE the factor presume a Immediate spell metamagic feat that bumps spell level +5
lavekkia 10-09-05, 07:00 PM	Ahhhhhhh....the caster permanently gives up access to an entire school...major sacrifice. I would impose that the school can't already be a banned school (such as from specialization), nor can it be the school the caster is specialized in (if any). And what about the spells he/she already knows? Still keep access to them as normal, just can't learn anymore or use items of that school that don't use the spell? Sound good? This is an interesting mitigating factor. i would say yes to banned school and no to specialized schools Regarding spells/powers (don t forget psionic) known : i would say that caster say good bye to everything (spells in spellbook become wated paper, for spontaneous casters spells are stripped away )
lavekkia 10-09-05, 07:15 PM	burn skill point concentration -2 DC for every point burnt psicraft -3 DC for every point burnt (only if developing an epic power*) spellcraft -3 DC for every point burnt (only if developing an epic spell*) * the note are for multiclass PC: this way they must sacrifice valuable skill points
vardock 10-09-05, 08:56 PM	i think banning a school should be changed. it should either be temporary or have a WAY higher dc adjustment. since giving up a level is worth -120 dc (BOED), which you could get back later, and banning a school is both debalitating and perminate, the dc should be closer to 1000 or so. also What about taking abality damage? what should be a good dc for that?
Karsus the Mad 10-09-05, 11:15 PM	i think banning a school should be changed. it should either be temporary or have a WAY higher dc adjustment. since giving up a level is worth -120 dc (BOED), which you could get back later, and banning a school is both debalitating and perminate, the dc should be closer to 1000 or so. It's a permanent ban, aye. But it can be regained through just a few feats. also What about taking abality damage? what should be a good dc for that? Ability Burn (-20 DC per ability point): You can permanently burn an ability point to decrease the Spellcraft DC of an epic spell. Any method to regain lost ability points is considered inherent bonuses and is limited to a total of +5 to each ability (as per inherent ability rules). Ability Damage (-4 per ability point): You can lower the Spellcraft DC of epic spells when you cast them by suffering Ability Damage to your primary casting ability. For every ability point (primary casting ability) damaged, decrease the DC by -4. Ability Damage remains for a minimum of 24 hours (in the case of instantaneous spells) and lasts as long as the affected spell is functioning (for longer durations). You cannot suffer Ability Damage below what is required to cast the spell.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-10-05, 09:33 AM	For my vile villains in my campaign, I made up a new factor so they can cast their epic spells more easily. I think it might be too much, though. Ritualistic Sacrifice (See text): The epic spellcaster can make a sacrifice to the dark gods to gain a bit more power for their epic spells. Make a Knowlede (Religion) check as normal to determine the results, then halve the resulting check.
Karsus the Mad 10-10-05, 09:44 AM	For my vile villains in my campaign, I made up a new factor so they can cast their epic spells more easily. I think it might be too much, though. Ritualistic Sacrifice (See text): The epic spellcaster can make a sacrifice to the dark gods to gain a bit more power for their epic spells. Make a Knowlede (Religion) check as normal to determine the results, then halve the resulting check. Added:) This reminds me of a sacrifice factor I used once for a special, dasdardly necromancer. I had based the DC as equal to the HD of the sacrifice tho.
Bob the Great 10-10-05, 12:39 PM	Halve range. -2 DC per application. Range is halved. If you take it twice, the range will be 1 quarter normal, taken 3 times, one 8th normal, etc. Round down. Halve area. -2 DC per application. Area is halved. If you take it twice, the area will be 1 quarter normal, taken 3 times, one 8th of normal, etc. Ritual sacrifice (my version): Casting time must be at least 1 minute. During casting you sacrifice (coup de grace) one creature. Make a knowledge(religion) check. Multiply the sacrificed creature's HD by the result of your knowledge check and divide it by 50. That is the DC reduction (DC reduce=sacrifices HD*Knowledge religion/50). If the result of your knowledge religion check exceeds 100, it is considered to be 100 instead. Using a ritual sacrifice is an evil act, and causes you to lose favor with any good aligned deities you worship (lose divine spellcasting until you atone).
vardock 10-10-05, 02:04 PM	it should be -4 for decreasing range since it is +4 to increase it!
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-10-05, 06:32 PM	Thanks for adding the factor. The formula you made for it is very nice, I probably wouldn't have thought of that.
lavekkia 10-10-05, 08:29 PM	mitigating factor: burning feats (WARNING VERY VERY TRICKY) DC -30 per feat burned plus -10 per every dependent feat already acquired dependent feats are disabled not lost feat can be regained if PC acquired it as a bonus feat and doesn't meet requirements he/she can't regain it eligible feats are spellcasting feats / psionic feats metamagic feats and metapsionic feats spellfire material component DC -30 (could be extended to other strange material components (in my campaign i used antimatter for KABOOM spell it required an adventure to find it :D ) note that i m talking about RAW material) regarding school ban: LEoF mythal spells can suppress an entire school of magic the cost is 20000; this way the DC of mythal spell DC is bumped up by + 200. So for mitigating factor should be DC -200 (pretty much; but loss is severe; if fact i would nver do it :D )
Karsus the Mad 10-10-05, 08:54 PM	mitigating factor: burning feats (WARNING VERY VERY TRICKY) DC -30 per feat burned plus -10 per every dependent feat already acquired dependent feats are disabled not lost feat can be regained if PC acquired it as a bonus feat and doesn't meet requirements he/she can't regain it eligible feats are spellcasting feats / psionic feats metamagic feats and metapsionic feats spellfire material component DC -30 (could be extended to other strange material components (in my campaign i used antimatter for KABOOM spell it required an adventure to find it :D ) note that i m talking about RAW material) regarding school ban: LEoF mythal spells can suppress an entire school of magic the cost is 20000; this way the DC of mythal spell DC is bumped up by + 200. So for mitigating factor should be DC -200 (pretty much; but loss is severe; if fact i would nver do it :D ) For the mythal seed, component costs are divided by 1,000 to get the DC. Arointing a school is 20,000/1,000= +20. I was thinking of that as well. But then figured, the arointing simply prevents the functioning of spells, whereas the Ban School actually bans the caster from ever using magic of that school, so a DC reduction between -40, and -60 seems ok. As DM's, such things should be tailored as needed of course. For the spellfire material component, not sure what spellfire is, unless you're reffering to the spellfire ability of the spellfire channeler PrC. Since you hint at including other special materials, maybe a "Unique material component"? Not sure how the DC can be calculated with it. If going by gp value, then it's the same as the Expensive Material Component mitigating factors. But if there was another way of calculating....hmmmmmm..... Added the Feat Burn.
vardock 10-11-05, 11:41 AM	you guys should use other factors as a guide to determining your now factors, the biggest mitigating factor i have seen printed was in the BOED. that was-120dc for the caster to loose a level, and if the spell has multiple targets that gain some sort of bonus from the spell they also loose a level. you guys should consider this when deciding how big your factors are. a level can be earned back, if you ban a school forever, you cripple yourself for life.
Karsus the Mad 10-11-05, 12:17 PM	you guys should use other factors as a guide to determining your now factors I usually use mathematical patterns extrapolated from existing factors for the ones I create. For example, the first Lose Level I developed (not listed) is -210. It's -210 because I took the minimum amount of XP required to reach epic (21st), and applied the Burn XP mitigating factor to it. When the Caster Dies (-50) was introduced in LEoF, I had to rethink it. It simply doesn't make since to die and get only a -50, yet lose a level and get something more than twice that. A level can always be regained. Dying by the Caster Dies doesn't allow any kind of resurrection. So I figured a DC = to level before loss worked fine for the Lose Level (unless you're above 50th level...). I extrapolated the Destory Artifact to be 2.5 x CL of minor artifact because the only Destroy Artifact mitigating factor is -50 for destroying a sphere of anhilation. 50/20=2.5. One must also take into account the effects that mitigating factors can have. you guys should consider this when deciding how big your factors are. a level can be earned back, if you ban a school forever, you cripple yourself for life. A banned school can be earned back with 3 feats. Arcane Transfiguration (requires Item Reprieve and Spell Reprieve)
vardock 10-11-05, 01:13 PM	i did not know that. but still having to use up three feats, it takes a lot of time and level gaining to make up for it. also what happens if you ban the school again? would you need to take the feats again? could you take them again?
Banpai 10-11-05, 01:29 PM	you guys should use other factors as a guide to determining your now factors, the biggest mitigating factor i have seen printed was in the BOED. that was-120dc for the caster to loose a level, and if the spell has multiple targets that gain some sort of bonus from the spell they also loose a level. you guys should consider this when deciding how big your factors are. a level can be earned back, if you ban a school forever, you cripple yourself for life. Please stop mentioning this one it is very unbalanced and doesnīt even make sense since you could gain a greater reduction by paying 20 000 XP (200) and that is about as much as you lose at epic levels. I wont say that this specific factor doesnīt make sense concerning the spell in question, but the higher the level you lose the more you should gain for it - and this is simply not the chase. I tryed to icorporate this in my caster dies variant (the spontanious one) and I am rather glad how it is now.
Banpai 10-11-05, 01:32 PM	Now something general about burning skill points, feats and other stuff (lets just say you want to permanently burn HP) while these may seem a valid options from mathematical point of view threre is simply no real ingame justification for doing so: Just try to explain why your character has lost all arcane knowlege just for casting a spell. IMO you shouldnīt give spell slots permanetly away - but this is a more valid way to power such spells. Just in chase you are a "softy" like me try a variant where you can chose to empower the spell with you spell slots but they are only used up as long as the spell persists (of course this only works for spells with a duration longer than 24 hours) and the spell automatically ends if you die (or lose access to spellcasting). I recently came up with some new factors (some exist already in published spells but I think the adjustment is not really correct): -change from area into 5ft cubes +4 -make spell dissmissable +2-4 -make spell more difficult to recognize: +2 for every 4 points of DC increase to recognize the spell via spellcraft -spell deals nonlethal damage +6 -spell can deal lethal or nonlethal damage chosen at the time of casting +10 -spell uses up random spell slot/prepared spell -5 -spell allows 2 more saving thows: -20 -spell can only be cast with the expenditure of one use of Bardic music(its obvious)/Turn Undead(put even more power of your god into the spell), Wild shape(get in touch with nature)........ -3 well thats it for the moment what do you think? ritualistic sacrifice should be a casting factor - or set it at , letīs just say -10 and make the sacrifice of an intelligent creature of at least 1 hd neccessary(and or give a bonus to spellcraft check to cast the spell equal to a number depending on the hd)
lavekkia 10-11-05, 06:26 PM	karsus you're right and can't do maths :D Regarding spellfire It's FR based and it's raw magical energy (it's not so simple and there plenty of threads so if you want to dig through maybe 3500 posts go for it but i would not recomend it :D ) and can be acquired through a 1st level only feat I take the idea from Frostburn : Epic spells there use coldfire component coldfire component -1 DC for every ounce used To generalize Unique Material Component as you call it is a material component that can't be purchased or crafted but is not an artifact because is natural and because you can find how much do you want (but you must find it maybe requiring an adventure) I think that this thread should dictate also guidelines to calculate DC for new factors edit : could eberron campaign users contribute ? I think about dragonshards as material components but i don't know well Eberron Obviously this could be extended to old CS (for example adamantine in Dark Sun qualify for this perfectly)
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-11-05, 08:58 PM	I think when it comes to Coldfire, Dragonmarks, and Adamantine components, use the rules for expensive material components: -2 (or 1, not sure) for every 2,500 gp of components.
Banpai 10-12-05, 07:07 AM	karsus you're right and can't do maths :D Regarding spellfire It's FR based and it's raw magical energy (it's not so simple and there plenty of threads so if you want to dig through maybe 3500 posts go for it but i would not recomend it :D ) and can be acquired through a 1st level only feat I take the idea from Frostburn : Epic spells there use coldfire component coldfire component -1 DC for every ounce used To generalize Unique Material Component as you call it is a material component that can't be purchased or crafted but is not an artifact because is natural and because you can find how much do you want (but you must find it maybe requiring an adventure) I think that this thread should dictate also guidelines to calculate DC for new factors edit : could eberron campaign users contribute ? I think about dragonshards as material components but i don't know well Eberron Obviously this could be extended to old CS (for example adamantine in Dark Sun qualify for this perfectly) Well the idea is rather interresting, maybe one could make spending spellfire levels a component maybe -1 per 4 spell levels spend at the time of casting. With a limit equal to you Constitution that you can spend on a spell. You could do simillar things with silver fire(spellfire that the choosen of mystra wield). Now the suggestion concerning Ebberon is rather strange IIRC the highest level divine caster NPC canīt even cast level 9 spells. And where in Dark Sun can you find adamant ? Even Iron is extremly rare
lavekkia 10-12-05, 08:06 AM	Well the idea is rather interresting, maybe one could make spending spellfire levels a component maybe -1 per 4 spell levels spend at the time of casting. With a limit equal to you Constitution that you can spend on a spell. You could do simillar things with silver fire(spellfire that the choosen of mystra wield). Now the suggestion concerning Ebberon is rather strange IIRC the highest level divine caster NPC canīt even cast level 9 spells. I don't understand what you're saying I was asking help to Eberron players :D what you were talking about ? So ? Eberron players Help us : what can be used to power up an epic spell ? (The silver flame perhaps ? ) regarding spellfire i would rather do -1 DC for every 3 lvl used Con limit reamins because is described in spellfire mechanics
Banpai 10-12-05, 08:27 AM	I don't understand what you're saying I was asking help to Eberron players :D what you were talking about ? So ? Eberron players Help us : what can be used to power up an epic spell ? (The silver flame perhaps ? ) regarding spellfire i would rather do -1 DC for every 3 lvl used Con limit reamins because is described in spellfire mechanics IIRC there are NO Epic level spellcasters in Ebberron. A level or two in the spellfire wielder Prc can change that dramatically.
Bliol 10-27-05, 12:24 PM	I wanted to add some fresh blood to this interesting thread, so I came up with a few new factors. Prolong instantaneous duration(n x DC*): You prolong the duration of an instantaneous spell for a number of rounds (n). Recorded on magically treated gold and platinum tablet(x 10 DC*): Once a spell is so inscribed, any number of epic spellcasters studying the spell for thrice as long as it's original development period can learn the spell. The tablet is not destroyed once another caster learns from it. *apply this factor after all other epic spell factors but before mitigating factors
Karsus the Mad 11-10-05, 11:02 AM	I wanted to add some fresh blood to this interesting thread, so I came up with a few new factors. Thank you, added:) As well as others. .......I miss sunlight....... Hey! I'm post 41, and what a coinkidink, I'm a 41st level arcanist! yay!!! :cheer: :w00t: :dancin: K...I do believe the lack of sunlight is getting to me now.
Banpai 11-10-05, 01:26 PM	Thank you, added:) As well as others. .......I miss sunlight....... Hey! I'm post 41, and what a coinkidink, I'm a 41st level arcanist! yay!!! :cheer: :w00t: :dancin: K...I do believe the lack of sunlight is getting to me now. Well I hope that the new light in your situation ;) will certnaly make up for the lack of light, the moving and the cold. I recently developed another factor but I direly need another oppinion. (developing factor) -7 require another caster to succed on the spellcraft check. To dothe spellcraft checkl, the additional caster has to lose a spell or spell slot of 9th, 10 or more according to the ritual rules -the aidingcaster still gains the usual benefit for duing so. Up to 6 other casters can help you to cast a spell. (casting factor) -5 For each other caster (up to 6 more) that succeds on a spellcraft check against the reduced DC(normal dc -5 per additional caster to succed at the spellcraft check). To aid in the casting of an Epic spell in this way the aiding caster has to spend a spell or spell slot as per the ritual rules for epic spell. Well itīs not really perfectly written but I came late from works so please accept my shortcommings.
Karsus the Mad 11-10-05, 11:03 PM	Well I hope that the new light in your situation ;) will certnaly make up for the lack of light, the moving and the cold. :tiphat: Thank you my good sir, it most certainly does, and much more :) I recently developed another factor but I direly need another oppinion. (developing factor) -7 require another caster to succed on the spellcraft check. To dothe spellcraft checkl, the additional caster has to lose a spell or spell slot of 9th, 10 or more according to the ritual rules -the aidingcaster still gains the usual benefit for duing so. Up to 6 other casters can help you to cast a spell. (casting factor) -5 For each other caster (up to 6 more) that succeds on a spellcraft check against the reduced DC(normal dc -5 per additional caster to succed at the spellcraft check). To aid in the casting of an Epic spell in this way the aiding caster has to spend a spell or spell slot as per the ritual rules for epic spell. Well itīs not really perfectly written but I came late from works so please accept my shortcommings. Definitely has a real Elven High Magic feel to it (far more so than the regular ritual rules) :D Hmmm...maybe not include the spellslot sacrifice. There isn't much of a bonus for using this with the spellslot sacrifice built in, since a participant can use the standard Ritual rules, and get a -17 DC reduction for expending a 9th level spellslot, and not worry of having to also make the Spellcraft check. Unless you mean they get the standard Ritual DC reduction as well as the -7 for also having to succeed at the Spellcraft check, for a total reduction of -24. But that brings me back to my first point, there doesn't appear to be a real advantage in including a spellslot burn requirement for this, since they could easily use the additional participant ritual rules, get a -17 for expending a 9th level slot, then take a -7 for requiring the same participant to also succeed at a Spellcraft check. I do however absolutely love the idea of additional participants being required to succeed at Spellcraft checks as well. Definitely gives a more true feel to the definition of Ritual Spell.
Banpai 11-12-05, 02:29 PM	:tiphat: Thank you my good sir, it most certainly does, and much more :) Definitely has a real Elven High Magic feel to it (far more so than the regular ritual rules) :D Hmmm...maybe not include the spellslot sacrifice. There isn't much of a bonus for using this with the spellslot sacrifice built in, since a participant can use the standard Ritual rules, and get a -17 DC reduction for expending a 9th level spellslot, and not worry of having to also make the Spellcraft check. Unless you mean they get the standard Ritual DC reduction as well as the -7 for also having to succeed at the Spellcraft check, for a total reduction of -24. But that brings me back to my first point, there doesn't appear to be a real advantage in including a spellslot burn requirement for this, since they could easily use the additional participant ritual rules, get a -17 for expending a 9th level slot, then take a -7 for requiring the same participant to also succeed at a Spellcraft check. I do however absolutely love the idea of additional participants being required to succeed at Spellcraft checks as well. Definitely gives a more true feel to the definition of Ritual Spell. Ok sorry that my respnse is a little late. :) I am glad that you can still se the positive aspects of your dark, cold situation. I have to admid that this "Elven High Magic" feeling may come from reading the Last Mythal series, it inspirerd me to well play NWN and all expansions in two weeks and have some nice idead about Epic Spellcasting. The reason why I added the requirement of using the ritual rules and the investment of spell slots came from the intention that only a caster that could have acces to the feat Epic spellcasting could really help more actively in the casting of a complicated ritual spell. So letīs just change the requirement for this using this factor that the participant has to fullfill the requirements for Epic spellcasting and posses either the feat Imporoved Spell Capacity or Epic Spellcasting (or both? :D ). Itīs not unlike the first test of a gravity based energy source - you donīt really want 1 year students to participate and ruin the experiment (and the planet). To be honest I do prefer the version as casting factor - but to fully understand my reasoning you should know that I am currently thinking about to reduce the cost to reserach Epic Spells per point of dc by about 25-75% but base the cost and development time on the dc before migrating factors, so you canīt produce dc300 effects with the help of many participants and sacrifices and only pay for the final dc of 1 - since it allows the caster to ask for the help from spellcasters of equal levels (and not his army of simulacrums at least until level 42-but itīs debateable wheter or not the spell should receive a cap at CL 25). But with these higher requirements I think it would be reasonable to make it a casting factor only, and let the factor grand a competence(stacks with itself right?) bonus to spellcraft equal to half the ranks of spellcraft posessed by the aiding participant if he (and all other who participate in this way) succeds at a spellcraft check against :normal DC of the spell reduced by the ranks in spellcraft posessed by the participant and readuced by the number of participants making a spellcraft check other than the original caster *10=DC for the participant. A max number of participants can aid in the spellcasting 10 ranks in spellcraft the caster has. Well this is maybe a little bit confusing so I will try to present an example: Selensna a great Druid of the High Forest(female elven Druid 37 with 40 ranks in Spellcraft mod +60) , Angaroth the disciplined (human Monk5 Sorcerer 32 with 40 ranks Spellcraft mod+75) , Psiodan the twin talented (Elan psion25 wizards 5 cerebremancer 10 with 43 ranks in spellcraft mod+65) and a person everyone only knows as The Lady (human? :D Sorcerer 6 Paladin of Freedom 2 Incantatrix 3 Archmage 5 46 ranks in Spellcraft mod +80) were humbly asked by Archmage Zanatan (human wizard 33 Archmage 5 41ranks spellcraft mod +66) for ther help to enable him to cast a spell he recently uncovered in an old tomb. The spell seems to be developed by a netherese survivor and creates a pocket of intesived magic within the weave. As an instantenous effect it changes the "thickness" of the weave to allow a spellcaster to use ambient magic energy instead of his own spell slots.(IIRC Gemstone is working on spell like this). But Zanatans problem is that the spell is with itīs DC of 150 is simply beyound his reach but with the help of these 4 he hopes to accomplish to cast the spell: The casting starts: Selensna takes 10 on her Spellcraft check against the dc of 150 and succeds (60+40+40+10), and each other aiding participant succeds too. Now Zantans spellcraft check (66+20+16+21+23+10=156) is just enough to suceed in casting the dweomer. I really hope that is readable - and I hope you like the idea although it will require a certan number of ranks in math.
Karsus the Mad 11-22-05, 09:58 PM	How would you like it organized? :) I'm thinking two versions. 1 as a regular development factor (for those that don't like our casting factors), and another as a casting factor. For the requirement I was thinking instead of specific feats have the requirement ''at least 1st level in the Elven High Mage prestige class'' but then thought better to keep it with just Epic Spellcasting (to keep the factor more generic and less campaign specific). Something that caught my interest is the bonus to spellcraft equal to half the ranks of spellcraft posessed by the aiding participant if he (and all other who participate in this way) succeds at a spellcraft check Urban Arcana has something similar with their Incantations (litterally non-epic spells built using seeds, etc...). I rather like the multiple Spellcraft check requirements from additional participants.
rob_douglas 11-23-05, 09:02 AM	I know this isn't exactly what you want, but you can have an effect on casting time epic spellcasting from contributing participants by the current rules - Use Aid Another. If the helpers make a DC10 Spellcraft check, they add +2 to your Spellcraft check. Synergy bonuses were increased in Epic to include that you get an extra +2 for every 20 ranks. I believe that Aid Another is supposed to give another +2 for every 20 points you exceed the DC10 skill check. With an additional +2 for every 20 points they beat the DC by - so a Spellcraft check of 50 gets you +6 from those participants. In your example, Selensna Spellcraft mod +60 Angaroth the disciplined Spellcraft mod+75 Psiodan the twin talented spellcraft mod+65 The Lady Spellcraft mod +80 Archmage Zanatan spellcraft mod +66 Zantan takes 10 to give +76 the others can't take 10, but likely get 70 (+8), 85 (+8), 75 (+8), and 90 (+10), for a total of 76+8*3+10=100. So the DC 150 spell fails. But I believe that follows the intent of existing rules. If the Lady does the casting, she gets 90+8*4 = 122, so she fairs a bit better. It may not have the results you want, but there is precedent for doing it this way in existing rules. ROB
Banpai 11-23-05, 11:58 AM	http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/leof_gallery/86693.jpg rob_douglas I like your version and I think it is a very interresting 3rd option: 1.Factor:You can develop an epic spell that requires the help of other Epic Casters, reduce the final DC by 24 for each participant. The participants have to succed at a spellcraft check against (final dc/2 or final dc - ranks in spellcraft -number of participants other than caster *10[tell me wich one is better/cleaner]). If a participant does not succed, the spell fails. To participate one must have the Epic Spellcasting feat. -The problem with a normal factor is that the benefit does not scale well. 2.Casting Factor:Other casters - with the Epic Spellcasting feat - can help you to succed in casting a difficult epic spell. Each participant that succeds at a spellcraft check against (final dc/2 or final dc - ranks in spellcraft -number of participants other than caster *10[tell me wich one is better/cleaner]) grands the main caster a bonus equal to half his ranks in spellcraft.However if not all succed, the spell is ruined. 3.Aid Another - bascally exactly what you said rob_douglas. This is from an older post could someone comment it please? I recently came up with some new factors (some exist already in published spells but I think the adjustment is not really correct): -change from area into 5ft cubes +4 -make spell dissmissable +2-4 -make spell more difficult to recognize: +2 for every 4 points of DC increase to recognize the spell via spellcraft -spell deals nonlethal damage +6 -spell can deal lethal or nonlethal damage chosen at the time of casting +10 -spell uses up random spell slot/prepared spell -5 -spell allows 2 more saving thows: -20 -spell can only be cast with the expenditure of one use of Bardic music(its obvious)/Turn Undead(put even more power of your god into the spell), Wild shape(get in touch with nature)........ -3
pigrush 11-23-05, 08:26 PM	Consider contributing an epic spell slot just sub 19 dc to an epic spell, it is really too much to sub 24 dc for giving out nothing but doing a spellcraft check. Plus, epic casters can boost there spellcraft skill so high that (final spellcraft DC)/2 is just a small piece of cake for them.
Starmage21 11-23-05, 08:37 PM	my creativity and thoughts on epic spell stuff: The Conjure Seed Many people argue that the conjure seed sucks. I tend to agree with them to a point. The conjure seed has a very small amount of material that can be generated, and the factor to create more is much too large. There is a reason for this method of design: The Conjure seed is not limited to inexpensive materials. It can create Adamantine, gold, or even one big diamond. The role-playing reason a player might want to create expensive materials? Well, a faint magical aura may indeed fade over time, and in the even that the creator conjures gold-pieces, the average merchant is going to have to way to tell the difference from a magically created coin and a normal coin. Often, the same merchant isnt likely to care even if he can detect the material's magical creation. He may be more likely to care that the material is indeed real(and thus wont disappear with a Dispel Magic, you can make a magic item with it and whatnot), instead of how it came to be. There is a house-rule that can be used: Non-expensive materials can be created in much larger quantities than the Conjure seed lists in it's description: Increase the rates listed by a factor of 10(or 100, or 1,000; whatever floats the DM's boat) for inexpensive materials.
Banpai 11-29-05, 01:55 AM	Consider contributing an epic spell slot just sub 19 dc to an epic spell, it is really too much to sub 24 dc for giving out nothing but doing a spellcraft check. Plus, epic casters can boost there spellcraft skill so high that (final spellcraft DC)/2 is just a small piece of cake for them. The system is not perfect, but since contributing a spell (slot) bears not risk to the caster of the epic spell, I though that a version with a chance of failure would deserve a higher reward. And how can Epic casters boost their spellcraft skill so high? Without custom items (and spells) this is a lot harder than you should think.
Banpai 11-29-05, 01:58 AM	my creativity and thoughts on epic spell stuff: The Conjure Seed Many people argue that the conjure seed sucks. I tend to agree with them to a point. The conjure seed has a very small amount of material that can be generated, and the factor to create more is much too large. There is a reason for this method of design: The Conjure seed is not limited to inexpensive materials. It can create Adamantine, gold, or even one big diamond. The role-playing reason a player might want to create expensive materials? Well, a faint magical aura may indeed fade over time, and in the even that the creator conjures gold-pieces, the average merchant is going to have to way to tell the difference from a magically created coin and a normal coin. Often, the same merchant isnt likely to care even if he can detect the material's magical creation. He may be more likely to care that the material is indeed real(and thus wont disappear with a Dispel Magic, you can make a magic item with it and whatnot), instead of how it came to be. There is a house-rule that can be used: Non-expensive materials can be created in much larger quantities than the Conjure seed lists in it's description: Increase the rates listed by a factor of 10(or 100, or 1,000; whatever floats the DM's boat) for inexpensive materials. Things like that happen when you always base a seed on the weakest version .... but donīt worry you just have to create a seed "Create" and basse it on the spell true creation (maybe I got the name wrong), it creates stuff instantenously but you have to pay XP for it IIRC. Oh this is so Full Metal Alchemist: Humans canīt gain something whitout losing something of equal value.
Karsus the Mad 02-09-06, 08:12 AM	:bump: I wondered where this had wondered off to...
lavekkia 02-09-06, 09:01 AM	developing a spell i applied this factor: swap area dimensions: DC + 6 works only on cylinder for nowl: it swaps one dimension for the other (the cylinder become 30 ft diameter 10 ft high)
Karsus the Mad 02-09-06, 09:30 AM	Elaborate please? Would this be at will (example, at the time of casting the caster can choose to either cast the spell as a cylinder shape or as an area spell?) or simply a factor to change a cylinder into an area (basically, the reverse of the change from area to cylinder factor ?) btw, thanks for finding this thread again :tiphat:
lavekkia 02-09-06, 10:48 AM	forget about it... i realized it s useless add this if if you feel it should be of any use change area to cylinder type 2 (30 ft large 10 ft high) DC + 3
lavekkia 02-12-06, 08:35 AM	here are some new mitigating factors: Permanently burn Power Points: DC - 1 per 2 PP burnt (works only for Psion/Wilder when developing an epic power) Permanently Burn Spell Point: DC - 1 per 2 SP burnt (requires the use of Spell Point House rule stated on Unearthed Arcana) require the expense of psionic focus for 24 hours DC - 7 (the psion/wilder cannot become psionically focused for 24 after casting the spell) NOTE : maybe this one could be a casting factor become pcychically enervated DC - 5 (available only to wilders) some factors: change area to ring int radius 15 ft ext radius 30 ft DC + 3
Karsus the Mad 02-13-06, 07:50 PM	Added:) Also added a new one, Additional Research Required (-1 per each additional 5 days added to research time)
lavekkia 02-19-06, 07:16 PM	developed this one while developing a shadow weave based epic spell (FR based) Feel fre to suggest new types of eligible feats require feat (DC - 12, additional -4 per every feat that is prereq of this feat) The spellcaster/manifester must have the feat in order to develop and cast the spell; if the feat is disabled (for example because the character doesn't meet feat prereq anymore) the spellcaster cannot use this mitigating factor. Eligible Feats are Metamagic, Spellcasting (only for arcane and divine spellcasters), Psionic, Metapsionic(only for psion/wilder, bloodline(only for sorcerers) , wild (only for druids)
Banpai 02-20-06, 05:17 AM	Iīm back, letīs celebrate in joy. :D A new one: -Reduce cost to research the spell by 50% but increase the final DC to cast the spell by 100 % I think the idea is nice but maybe I just canīt see how broken it is.
Karsus the Mad 02-20-06, 11:23 AM	Welcome back my friend :pint: Added both:)
lavekkia 02-22-06, 07:52 AM	Here's another one.... Skill Requirement ( DC - Rank): the caster must have a certain number of skill ranks in a certain skill to develop and cast the spell/power. Eligible skills are all except Spellcraft (for all spellcaster), Psicraft (for all manifesters), Knowledge(arcana) (for sorcerers/wizards), Knowledge(religion) ( for clerics), knowledge(nature) (for druids), knowledge(psionics) (for psions/wilders). The skill MUST be related with the spell developed (for example a Wizard researching a Verdigris Tsunami could use her ranks in knowledge(nature)), the correlation is subjected to DM approval (which should be strict in applying this rule).
Banpai 02-22-06, 03:09 PM	:plotting: Ok here is another one: Ability Burn (the XPH version) for every two points damage to your casting stat - 4 for every two points burn to each other stat -2 from the sacred SRD Ability Burn This is a special form of ability damage that cannot be magically or psionically healed. It is caused by the use of certain psionic feats and powers. It returns only through natural healing. And just to continue the rampage :pint: :thumbsup:
Karsus the Mad 02-25-06, 01:33 AM	Added:) I just forgot to mention it when I did:P
lavekkia 03-05-06, 08:16 AM	Another mitigating factor for non - humanoid Lose spell - like ability : the caster can give a part of herself on the spell: the magical innate power of her ability is stripped away and used to power the spell. If the ability has a fixed number of uses per day the caster loses ONE of them, if the ability can be used at will the ability is lost but the DC is calculated as if the ability were 2 lvl higher (maximum epic lvl) DC = (spell lvl * 10) - 3
Karsus the Mad 03-05-06, 09:13 AM	Added:)
lavekkia 03-09-06, 05:19 PM	now i have a question about make instantaneous factor: suppose i want to use the transform seed (which is already permanent) i do need to multiply the DC x 10 or the permanent part is supposed to be included and i only need to multiply x 2 ?
Karsus the Mad 03-10-06, 01:51 AM	now i have a question about make instantaneous factor: suppose i want to use the transform seed (which is already permanent) i do need to multiply the DC x 10 or the permanent part is supposed to be included and i only need to multiply x 2 ? The trend seems to be (I could be mistaken) that if it has a duration other than permanent, it's x10, but if it's already permanent to begin with, it's x2. Personally, I go with x10, regardless. Just because the base seed is permanent, I don't see any reason to make it even cheaper for players to make it instantaneous (basically, why should it be cheaper for them to make it more powerful?), especially since the only seeds with permanent duration (transform, mythal, fortify[age extension only] ) are exceptionally powerful as is, and only become even more so when made non-dispellable via instantaneous duration :) But it's DM dependent, so choose which one, or neither, makes more sense to you:)
Banpai 03-11-06, 02:37 PM	The trend seems to be (I could be mistaken) that if it has a duration other than permanent, it's x10, but if it's already permanent to begin with, it's x2. Personally, I go with x10, regardless. Just because the base seed is permanent, I don't see any reason to make it even cheaper for players to make it instantaneous (basically, why should it be cheaper for them to make it more powerful?), especially since the only seeds with permanent duration (transform, mythal, fortify[age extension only] ) are exceptionally powerful as is, and only become even more so when made non-dispellable via instantaneous duration :) But it's DM dependent, so choose which one, or neither, makes more sense to you:) I think Mythals simply canīt be instantenous, itīs against magical "logic", the Transform Seed is equally dangeraus. The way itīs worded you could transform yourself into Elminster if you have enough hit dice. However the seed has a great downside, while you retain your own memories mental ability scores (and levels) you also gain Elminsters memories (not just the pleasant ones) his alignment .... you are Elminster for the duration of the spell, I really would not risk that. To be honest, I donīt see age extension as such a big thing, just polymorph ino an outsider - or elemental and you no longer suffer from aging as long as the spell is in effect(at least thats how I rule it in my game) or become a lich -all the cool kids do it :D .
Karsus the Mad 03-12-06, 04:16 AM	The rules say that epic spells with an already permanent or instantaneous duration can't be extended. It'd be very easy to interpret, if one wished, this as meaning permanent and instantaneous durations can't be changed.
Banpai 03-12-06, 03:25 PM	The rules say that epic spells with an already permanent or instantaneous duration can't be extended. It'd be very easy to interpret, if one wished, this as meaning permanent and instantaneous durations can't be changed. I can only think of one suitable answer to that: :plotting: Perfect Muhahahahah :evillaugh :rofl: :bow: and letīs not forget :ayyyy!:
Karsus the Mad 03-13-06, 02:14 AM	:) If you go further, and simply not allow the instantaneous factor, it also stops the "change fortify to instantaneous and thus bypass the inherent +5 restriction because technically, the seed only says any factor that makes it permanent makes it inherent." reasoning I've seen floating around.
Banpai 03-13-06, 02:58 AM	:) If you go further, and simply not allow the instantaneous factor, it also stops the "change fortify to instantaneous and thus bypass the inherent +5 restriction because technically, the seed only says any factor that makes it permanent makes it inherent." reasoning I've seen floating around. I just donīt by nonmagical magic and actually the fortify seed needs (like many others ) a rewrite (maybe some time later) that changes the wording permanent from instanteous since a inherent bonus is not disspellable. BTW I noticed we might be in the same time frame now. :)
Karsus the Mad 03-13-06, 03:15 AM	I just donīt by nonmagical magic and actually the fortify seed needs (like many others ) a rewrite (maybe some time later) that changes the wording permanent from instanteous since a inherent bonus is not disspellable. Indeed it does. I was also thinking of removing the "any statistic" part as well, and replace it with a series of specified statistics. BTW I noticed we might be in the same time frame now. We might be:) It's going on 10: 20am here (I actually have a friggin day off! WEEEEEE!) and I'm planning on doing nothing but zone out, doodle some pictures for my Lantan idea, possibly write a few lines for my 3.5 NEoM (not likely tho'...) and ummm...cook something delicious (stuffed peppers maybe, or maybe pepper steak with mushroom sauce) I do believe:)
lavekkia 03-18-06, 04:42 PM	I feel a bit dumb to not thinking about this before: Elven High Magic Factors: this factors and mitigating factors are accessible only PCs with at least one lvl on the Elven High Mage PrC (the PrC is detailed in Races of Faerun but it's broken; a far better version can be found here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=314825) Permanently burn hp: DC - 5 per hp lost (maybe this one could be extended to any type of Epic Spellcaster/Manifester) Improved lvl burn: DC - 25 per lvl lost Improved Ability burn: DC - 25 per ability point lost Improved lose limb: DC - 30 per lost limb(add to list also eyes, ears, mouth and nose) Age Character: DC - 2 per year; aging reversal not possible (not even with fortify seed) Sever Weave Contact: DC (-25 x lvl lost) - 80; spellcaster lose all spellcasting levels but not knowledge(skills and feats remain, but become disabled if caster doesn't meet prerequisites anymore). Character starts as a 1st lvl spellcaster(his choice). Multiclass characater choose at development time which class will be affected. Spells known and spellbook don't get lost. Abyssal Gate: DC - 30; immediately after the casting a gate to the lower planes opens and suck the caster in. The caster must return to his home plane by normal means. The gate remains open for 1d6 rounds Turned To Stone: DC - 45; the caster is turned to stone after completion; equipment is not affected. The caster can be brought back only via Wish spell
lavekkia 03-31-06, 06:56 AM	Here's some others Add descriptor Add alignment to spell: the caster/manifester can imbue the spell/power with aligned energy; the factor doesn't modify any variable but grant the spell the descriptor( for the purpouse of overcoming DR for example). If a seed has already a descriptor that descriptor cannot be neutralized (for example the slay seed cannot become [good]); obviously the caster/manifester cannot add two opposing descriptors (like a [evil][good] hellball). NOTE: divine caster can add their aligment at half the DC and their opposed aligment at double the DC; neutral divine casters must choose a favored aligment and a opposed aligment when they pick up the Epic Spellcasting feat, the choice canno't be changed add [evil] descriptor DC + 4: the spell developed has now the [evil] desc add [good] descriptor DC + 4: the spell developed now has the [good] descriptor add [lawful] descriptor DC + 4: the spell developed now has the [lawful] descriptor add [chaotic] descriptor DC + 4: the spell developed now has the [chaotic] descriptor
Banpai 04-04-06, 04:10 PM	@Karsus your personal taste of food hurts my stomach but at the curren milk feels like acid so this might not be overly much. Nice new avatar :D I guess not you finally have Mind over Matter. @lavekkia: Nice factors the elven ones are fine (though I canīt recall that a high mage ever sacrifices a limb) however I would suggest that you increase the DC increase of the descriptor seeds to at least +8. There are a good number of feats and domains capable of increasing the caster level with these spells and they work with epic spells just fine.
lavekkia 04-04-06, 07:12 PM	i extracted the factors from the High Magic Consequences table in Cormanthyer Empire Of Elves, original lose limb (DC - 25) comes from an Epic Spell from CoR (Horrendous Dessication). I was planning to add sanctify, corrupt and tainted epic mitigating factors and give them - 8 DC i think i ll raise the DC to + 6 for the descriptors factors.
Karsus the Mad 04-05-06, 07:21 AM	Added both Lavekkia:)
lavekkia 04-07-06, 07:38 AM	thanks :) i m thinking about corrupt, sanctify and tainted spell, i have also found (on Dr309) spells with [war] descriptor (wich has nothing in common with war domain) and cerebrotic enhancment (from Dr330) but i don't know if they can fit. Another 2 epic spells are on the way BTW :P
lavekkia 04-15-06, 02:30 PM	Elven Hig Magic Mitigating Factor (as usual is accessible only if the caster has at least one lvl in the Elven High Mage PrC, any version is feasible) Impoverd Life Sacrifice DC - 75: caster dies (no resurrection possible)
Banpai 04-15-06, 02:41 PM	thanks :) i m thinking about corrupt, sanctify and tainted spell, i have also found (on Dr309) spells with [war] descriptor (wich has nothing in common with war domain) and cerebrotic enhancment (from Dr330) but i don't know if they can fit. Another 2 epic spells are on the way BTW :P IIRC War spell can only get used with the right feat, take an hour to cast and affect huge areas/ whole armies, so adding this descriptor may not be usefull at all.
ArcanaKnight 05-02-06, 05:29 AM	What about using status changes (fatigue, exhaustion, etc.) to lower the dc. For example, caster is fatigued after casting DC-4.
lavekkia 05-02-06, 06:44 AM	That would be fine... The next big thing would be define the interactions between factors: for example what happens if you apply lose N prepared slots together with lose spellcasting ability for N days ?
lavekkia 05-04-06, 01:58 PM	I have more or less defined rules for fatigue, exaustion, stunning and unconsiousness as mitigating factors. I'm also trying to define rules of interactions with factors (the main issue is Lose Spellcasting Ability and Lose Prepared Slot); unfortunately this HW upgrade on the forum servers puts everything on hold... If someone is interested could PM me but the answer would take a bit :( @banpai: I have read again the [war] descriptor and you're right: it's nothing worth (aside maybe the part which states that war spells require a careful study of terrain... that could be an interesting mitigating factor....)
lavekkia 05-14-06, 12:23 PM	Mitigating factor/Casting Factor; i have taken the idea from Dr309 and the [war] spells and Legendary creation rules Target Knowledge: DC - 4 the caster/manifester must have studied the area of effect of the spell/power for at least 1 hour in the previous 24 hours. Magical scrying trough the use of clarvoyance or scrying is sufficient The factor apply only to area epic spells/powers; the caster/manifester must study the even if he is familiar with it. Fatigue: DC - 4 the caster become fatigued at the end of the casting of the spell;* Exaustion: DC - 8 the caster become exausted at the end of the casting of the spell;** Stunning: DC - 2 per 1d10 round the caster become stunned for 1d10 round at the end of casting; multiple application stack to a maximum of 20d10 rounds *this condition canno't be relieved by any means aside form time and rest **this condition canno't be relieved by any means aside form time and rest, this mitigating factor canno't be combined with fatigued
Andorxor 05-16-06, 04:25 PM	Written Permission of other spellcasters of the same level or higher as the caster: -1 DC per caster Written Permission in blood of other spellcasters of the same level or higher as the caster: -2 DC per caster Presence of a relative of the caster at the casting: -1 DC per relative Others are informated about the casting(who,what,where,when): Time: a week before the spell is cast 5x a day before the spell is cast 4x the moment the spell is cast 3x a hour after the spell is cast 2x a day after the spell is cast 1x Area: Multiverse -10 DC Plane - 7 DC 500 milies radius around casting location - 5 DC 100 miles radius around casting location - 3 DC 50 miles radius around casting location -1 DC
lavekkia 05-18-06, 05:41 AM	Elven High Magic Factors:(avaiable only if the caster has at least 1 lvl in the Elven High Mage PrC) Tribute Of Undeath: DC - 60 caster become a baelnorn Elven High Magic Ritual: DC - 1 per every participant (in addition to normal contribution) Elven High Mage Contribution: DC - 23 if another Elven High Mage contribute with an epic slot the DC reduction is 23 instead of 19, if the high mage contribute with a non epic slot aplly the previous mitigating factor
Platonix 05-18-06, 01:11 PM	I recently posted an epic spell of my own design in the Epic Spell Emporium. (It's linked in my sig if you're curious.) It included two ad hoc factors. I'm reposting those here in the hopes of getting C&C: in the analogy of epic spell design being an art, I'm a kindergardener with a handful of crayons. Recipient Chooses Application: This is a factor for the fortify seed. The orison guidance grants a +1 bonus that the recipient can apply to any one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, as he/she/it pleases; this factor allows the recipient to be similarly selective about the bonuses granted by the fortify seed. Ad Hoc DC: +10 What do you think? Higher? Lower? Just right? Reduce Duration: It's really crazy that there isn't already a printed mitigating factor for reducing a spell's duration. In my case, the fortify seed lasts 20 hours by default; what if I don't need that? I reduced the duration of my epic spell down to 1 hour with an Ad Hoc DC of -10. This needs to be fleshed out to allow a wide range of possible reductions. Maybe such a mitigating factor already exists in a different sourcebook? Admittedly, I only used the ELH. Also admittedly, I wound up making the DC adjustments for these two factors equal and opposite just to make my life easier; one reason why I believe they would benefit from scrutiny by people with more experience in this.
lavekkia 05-19-06, 05:27 AM	I recently posted an epic spell of my own design in the Epic Spell Emporium. (It's linked in my sig if you're curious.) It included two ad hoc factors. I'm reposting those here in the hopes of getting C&C: in the analogy of epic spell design being an art, I'm a kindergardener with a handful of crayons. Recipient Chooses Application: This is a factor for the fortify seed. The orison guidance grants a +1 bonus that the recipient can apply to any one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, as he/she/it pleases; this factor allows the recipient to be similarly selective about the bonuses granted by the fortify seed. Ad Hoc DC: +10 What do you think? Higher? Lower? Just right? Reduce Duration: It's really crazy that there isn't already a printed mitigating factor for reducing a spell's duration. In my case, the fortify seed lasts 20 hours by default; what if I don't need that? I reduced the duration of my epic spell down to 1 hour with an Ad Hoc DC of -10. This needs to be fleshed out to allow a wide range of possible reductions. Maybe such a mitigating factor already exists in a different sourcebook? Admittedly, I only used the ELH. Also admittedly, I wound up making the DC adjustments for these two factors equal and opposite just to make my life easier; one reason why I believe they would benefit from scrutiny by people with more experience in this. Choose ability at casting time should be ok (check the first post on the thread, there are similar factors) Decrease duration of a seed is already there; again check on the first post
Platonix 05-19-06, 07:39 PM	Decrease duration of a seed is already there; again check on the first post I'm...not seeing it. I'm seeing a factor to make the duration scalable by caster level, but that's not what I want. I suppose I could also use the Make Instantaneous factor and the Increase Instantaneous Duration factor, but that'd be a rather silly way to go about it, especially since I'm looking for a mitigating factor. Can you quote the mitigating factor for decreasing duration?
lavekkia 05-19-06, 09:45 PM	can t find it anymore; maybe i was wrong... just decrease the DC by - 2 for every 5 % (for 20 hours duration is - 2 per hour)
Platonix 05-19-06, 09:54 PM	So going from 20 hours to 1 hour would be a -38 adjustment instead of the -10 I ad hoced...not bad. Thanks!
Jaerom Darkwind 05-22-06, 04:00 PM	Why are there two distinct lists of factors?
Karsus the Mad 05-22-06, 04:26 PM	Why are there two distinct lists of factors? One list is factors and mits that have appeared in various products (so are "official" I suppose) and the other is variants or homebrewed ones. The only variance on the "official" ones is the augment magic item and artifact component. For augment magic item I extropolated the pattern from the mythal seeds minor, medium, and major prevalent costs and applied that to the base factor of augment minor magic item (+4) found in CoR. Artifact component is also extropolated from CoR. In that book an epic spell uses a sphere of anhillation as an artifact component with a -50. The CL for a sphere is 20, so I did a simple 50/20 to figure the relative reduction an artifact may give. Not the best way to do artifacts, and I stress highly that each DM determine for themselves what an appropriate reduction should be.
lavekkia 09-17-06, 07:06 PM	found a new official mitigating factor in Dragons Of Faerun: change area from sphere to half - sphere: DC x 1/2
Karsus the Mad 09-17-06, 08:38 PM	Added:) Thanks Lavekkia;) Is it just me or did half the posting disappear?
Jaerom Darkwind 09-17-06, 09:03 PM	found a new official mitigating factor in Dragons Of Faerun: change area from sphere to half - sphere: DC x 1/2 Wow... that's all kinds of unbalanced.
Starmage21 09-17-06, 09:30 PM	change area from sphere to a hemisphere? = 1/2 DC?! that is kinda unbalanced.
Banpai 09-18-06, 05:07 AM	The spells in Dragons of Faerun use a very liberal interpretation of the rules, correct me if I am wrong but increasing the range from 100 ft emanation to 12800 ft radius dome is not an increase of 700%. They doubled the range several times (I always though that in D&D 2 doubling equal one tripling, but that doesnīt seem to affect these spells) from 100 to 200 to 400 to 800 to 1600 to 3200 to 6400 to 12800 ft., I have to admid that the epic spells in said book are actually rather interresting, but without this little "cheat" Ahfhaironsīs Dragoward would be impossbile without having several dozens of spellcasters to aid in the casting. We should take spells like these (and the factors used in them) as nothing more than an effect that already existed in the Realms, translated into the current ruleset. If you really want a "dome factor" I would suggest that it simply halves the DC increase of the increase area factor, insted of the whole spell. If would suggest the following Homebrew factor: Area from sphere(emanation) to dome: This factor grands a DC reduction equal to 5 + half the DC increase from changes to the spells original area. Example if the Increase area by 100% factor was applied 10 times the DC reduction from this factor is (5+20) 25.
Banpai 09-18-06, 05:30 AM	@lavekkia: Itīs late sorry: Target Knowledge: DC - 4 the caster/manifester must have studied the area of effect of the spell/power for at least 1 hour in the previous 24 hours. Magical scrying trough the use of clarvoyance or scrying is sufficient The factor apply only to area epic spells/powers; the caster/manifester must study the even if he is familiar with it. Fatigue: DC - 4 the caster become fatigued at the end of the casting of the spell;* Exaustion: DC - 8 the caster become exausted at the end of the casting of the spell;** Stunning: DC - 2 per 1d10 round the caster become stunned for 1d10 round at the end of casting; multiple application stack to a maximum of 20d10 rounds *this condition canno't be relieved by any means aside form time and rest **this condition canno't be relieved by any means aside form time and rest, this mitigating factor canno't be combined with fatigued good factors, but I would suggest to add to Target Knowledge that if the condition can not be met the spell is castable by increasing the spellcraft DC by 8-12 points. Elven High Magic Factorsavaiable only if the caster has at least 1 lvl in the Elven High Mage PrC) Tribute Of Undeath: DC - 60 caster become a baelnorn Elven High Magic Ritual: DC - 1 per every participant (in addition to normal contribution) Elven High Mage Contribution: DC - 23 if another Elven High Mage contribute with an epic slot the DC reduction is 23 instead of 19, if the high mage contribute with a non epic slot aplly the previous mitigating factor Nice factors , I already made an unfinished new versions of the PrC that gives something like an improved version of circle casting, but theses factors look good, the only thing is that I think that Tribute to Undead is a little bit to strong, since the character actually gets more powerfull by becomming a baelnorn - it may be unpleasant to accept such a heavy duty but ....you know it looks a little bit fishy.
lavekkia 09-18-06, 05:44 AM	tribute of undeath = DC - 35 Elven High Mage become a baelnor change area from sphere to dome = DC x 1/2 (the mitigating factor affects only the area increase factor) Remove xp component = DC + 1 per 100 xp
Banpai 09-18-06, 05:58 AM	tribute of undeath = DC - 35 Elven High Mage become a baelnor change area from sphere to dome = DC x 1/2 (the mitigating factor affects only the area increase factor) Remove xp component = DC + 1 per 100 xp nice, and to add something new (at least I guess itīs new) Wild Magic: The spell functions as if the caster would be inside a wild magic zone (FRCS pages 55) . DC*1/3. Edit:Stolen from a number of very sweet classes: Battle Spell:The caster cast this spell and makes a meele attack as a standart action, the spell only affects the target of the meele attack and only does so he the attack actually hits. If the spell targets one or more creatures the spell affects only the target of the meele attack, but affects it normaly. If the spell is an area effect like Fireball, or Mordenkainens Disjunction the spell affects only targets square(s), so in case of a medium target the area effect takes place within his 5 ft square, if the target is large or greater the spell affects proportionally greater area, (if there are other creatures of objects in the area (like a familiar on his masters arm) it is affected too. If the spell normally requires a touch or ranges touch attack, it is no longer necessary but only the weapon used to deviler the spell can score a critical hit, a spell delivered in this manner canīt score a critical hit. Obviously some spells donīt work in combination with this factor (stuff like magic weapons, or wall of force but something like wall of fire does indeed work rather well). To use tis factor the spell canīt have a casting time longer than 1 minute Spellcraft DC +35 Greater Battle Spell: As Battle spell, but the spell is cast as part of a full attack action and affects up to four different targets (each one must be hit in order to become a target). +75 Dummy spell: As spell developed with this factor is very difficult to counter since it looks like the caster is acutually casting more than one spell at once. When the spell is cast and could be countered the counterspeller has two(or more) targets to counterspell. If the counterspeller has detect magic, arcane sight or similar magic he receives a bonus equal to double the spells (or abilities) level on his spellcraft check to understand which one is the real spell. The DC is the final dc of this spell +30, if the check succeeds the counterspeller understands which ones are (dummies) and can counter the spell as usual. If he does no succed on the spellcraft check, he can still pick one at random or if he has the right feats/spells/abilities he may try to counter the spell and all the dummies. For the purpose of countering treat a dummy as a level 0 spell of the real spells school. The dc increases by 30 per dummy. Suppress Spell: As spell developed with this factor can be suppressed as a swift action and reactivated as a standart action. A suppresses spell has no effect, but the suppressed time counts for the duration of the spell, this factor is inteded for something like a gate made of a Wall of Forcelike effect to allow entry, or for a spell that envelops the caster in an inferno of fire that burns attackers to allow normal contact other people without burnung them into oblivion. +20 to DC This one is a Mythal only factor Imprint Personality:When a caster creates a Mythal he has the option to give it a part of himself; to implant a smal shard of the caster self in his creation to give it reason and compassion (within limits). This new personality is similar to a simulacrum with some important changes: -unlike the Simulacrum spell the personality has 3/4 the levels of the caster -2 -the personality does not have a physical body, but it is not unusual a caster using this factor also gives the Mythal the Project Image spell or similar magic to allow the personality a ways to better interact with creatures. Such a projected body usually looks like an idealized version of the caster (a little younger, fewer greay hears, perfectly trimmed hair.....) -the personality does not have a physical body, but still has all the physical and mental stats of the caster if they should become necessary (projected body casting rays...) -the personality has full controll over all other powers of the Mythal, like keying creatures to the mythal, activating or deactivating powers... dc +50 +5000XP
Jaerom Darkwind 10-06-06, 04:41 PM	I don't understand what this factor means: Augment Magic Item: You can create epic spells that simulate the numerical effects of magic items. Once applied, your epic spell incorporates all the effects of the item. You can increase the numerical effects by a factor of 100% by applying the factor multiple times. Each 100% increase increases the base numerical variables of the magic item being incorporated or simulated. The Augment Magic Item requires the item to be simulated be part of the standard material components (no expensive material component reduction to DC). Augment Minor Magic Item (+4) Augment Medium Magic Item (+16) Augment Major Magic Item (+40)
Jaerom Darkwind 10-06-06, 06:55 PM	Might I recommend a new format to this thread? The current one is messy and hard to read. Ad Hoc Factors from Official Material Duration x2 Change duration from permanent to instantaneous [1] Target +40 Determine affected creature type upon casting Area +25 Make area level-dependent +25 Make volume level-dependent Saving Throw +3 +5 DC per 1,000 XP sacrificed upon casting Damage +25 Make damage level-dependent Other +28 Apply effects of Maximize Spell feat Unlike all other factors, this factor is added after any factor used to make the duration permanent: if both factors are used, the resulting multiplier is x10. This is an exception to normal stacking rules.Ad Hoc Mitigating Factors from Official Material -5 Add abstinance component [1] Varies [2] Add material component -20 Add sacrifice component (1 character level) -25 Add sacrifice component (appendage) -50 Add sacrifice component (life of caster) x1/2 Change area from sphere to hemisphere Sample abstinance components: Caster must abstain from intoxicants and stimulants for one week before casting spell. Caster must not be the subject of any other spell at the time casting spell. Caster must not be suffering from ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain at the time of casting, including the effects of sanctified or corrupt spells. Expensive material components mitigate at a rate of -4 DC per 10,000. Minor artifacts offer a mitigating factor equal to 2.5 x the artifact's caster level.Member-Created Factors Casting Time +8 or +15 Reduce from swift action to immediate action Duration +2 Dismissible by caster x2 Increase from instantaneous to 1 round x2 Make duration level-dependent [1] Range x2 Make range level-dependent [1] Area +4 Change area into eight 5-foot cubes x2 Make area level-dependent [1] Damage +6 Change damage from lethal to nonlethal +10 Choose lethal or nonlethal damage upon casting Caster Level +3 +5 CL per 1,000 XP sacrificed upon casting Other +2 or +4 Add alignment descriptor [2] 7 x level Add metamagic feat effects +2 Increase Spellcraft DC to recognize spell by +4 x10 Record on gold tablet [3] x2 Reduce gp and research time by 50% If more than one of these factors are applied to the same spell, their DCs are added together (x4 or x6). This is an exception to normal stacking rules. A spell cannot have conflicting alignment descriptors, such as [Good] and [Evil]. A divine caster reduces the DC adjustment by half when adding her own alignment, but doubles it when adding the alignment(s) opposed to her own. Epic spells can be inscribed on precious metals at least as valuable as gold. Once a spell is so inscribed, another epic spellcaster can learn it without going through the process of development. Studying the tablet in this way requires three times its development time. Unlike a stone tablet, metal tablets such as these are not destroyed when another caster learns from them.Member-Created Mitigating Factors -3 Add backlash component (-1 caster level for 24 hours) -10 Add backlash component (lose arcane or divine spellcasting for 24 hours; per 24 hour period) -2 Add backlash component (2 points of ability burn) -4 Add backlash component (2 points of ability burn to primary spellcasting statistic) -20 Add backlash component (1 point of permanent ability drain) -60 Add backlash component (gain restricted school of magic) -12 Add feat requirement (and -4 DC per prerequisite of feat) -1 Add material component (coldfire; per ounce) -3 Add power component (1 bardic music usage) -7 Add power component (psionic focus; cannot refocus for 24 hours) -5 Add power component (random spell slot or prepared spell) -3 Add power component (1 turn/rebuke attempt) -3 Add power component (1 wild shape usage) Varies Add skill requirement [1] -30 Add sacrifice component (feat) [2] Varies Add sacrifice component (1 character level; DC reduction equal to current level) -1 Add sacrifice component (2 power points) -2 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Concentration) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank primary Knowledge skill) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Psicraft; psionic powers only) -3 Add sacrifice component (1 rank Spellcraft; spells only) -1 Add sacrifice component (2 spell points) (See table) Add sacrifice component (spell slot) [3] Varies Add sacrifice component (spell-like ability) [4] -20 Allow two additional saving throws -2 Decrease area by 50% -2 Decrease range by 50% -2 Increase casting time by 1 hour (max 10 hours) [5] -1 Require 5 days of additional research to develop -1 to -10 Require caster to save vs. insanity (DC 15 + mitigating factor) The caster must have a number of ranks in a specific skill to cast the spell; the mitigating factor is equal to this number. The skill must be intimately connected to the purpose and theme of the spell, and cannot be the caster's (or manifester's) primary Knowledge skill, Psicraft (for epic powers), or Spellcraft (for epic spells). Any feats that use the sacrificed feat as a prerequisite are disabled until the prerequisite is met again. Each feat that will be disabled grants an additional -10 DC. The feat must be a spellcasting feat or be intimately connected to the purpose and theme of the spell. The mitigating factor depends on the level of the sacrificed spell slot. Spell Slot Spellcraft DC Burned Reduction 1st -5 2nd -15 3rd -25 4th -35 5th -45 6th -55 7th -65 8th -75 9th -85 Epic -95 One daily use of the spell-like ability is permanently lost; if the ability is usable at will, it is lost completely but mitigates as a spell two levels higher. This mitigating factor is equal to the spell's level x 10 - 3. When increasing the casting time of a spell in order to reduce the Spellcraft DC, a character must first “use up” the maximum of 10 minutes (for a total DC modifier of –20). After that, a character can continue to add hours to the casting time, with a further modifier of –2 per hour, up to the maximum of 10 hours. Only after this period of hours is used up can the caster begin adding days.
Platonix 10-06-06, 09:12 PM	I don't understand what this factor means: Sounds to me like you can cause the spell to grant the bonuses of, say, Gloves of Dexterity or a Belt of Magnificence. You have to sacrifice the magic item as a material component, but the spell grants the recipient bonuses as if he/she/it had the magic item equipped. Even though you're using up a permanent magic item, you don't get the DC reduction for doing so, but this is still a bargain because you don't have to increase the DC by as much as you would if you were just using the fortify seed to grant those bonuses the normal way.
Karsus the Mad 10-08-06, 12:36 PM	I don't understand what this factor means: sorry for the late reply and crappy typing. i don't have full use of my hands. the epic spell horrendous dessication in cor uses it to add the effect of dust of dryness but on a x10 scale. basically the factor adds the effects of the item to be agumented into the spell. the spell lists it as 'augment minor magic item x10 (+40)', for a +4 per augmentation. i used the mythal seed to extrapolate dc increase for medium and major items. however, as a dm i wouldn't allow items such as ability or skill boosting items, since those can be duplicated via standard epic spell development.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-15-06, 11:41 AM	I used this for an epic spell I'm making, for thematic potential mostly (Thought the DC was kind of high). Exhaustion (-5 DC): After casting the epic spell, the caster is exhausted for one hour.
Jaerom Darkwind 10-15-06, 03:16 PM	Here are a few factors I developed for constitute transitive nexus. I didn't include the factor for a location component, since I think it's impossible to generalize. -5 Add abstinance component [1] -3 Add essentia component (per point) [2] Varies Add incantation component [3] -4 Add power component (1 action point) -12 Add descriptor -2 Backlash (1d12 damage) See below Contribute multiple power sources -10 Require specific type [4] New Abstinance components: Caster must fast for ten days. Caster must abstain from liquids for two days. Caster must abstain from sexual activity for one month. Caster must not have cast any spells or manifest any powers within the last week. Unlike most incarnum spells, filling the essentia component of an epic spell is not optional--without it, the spell fails. An incantation grants a -2 DC per check required in the incantation (maximum -18 for nine checks), plus -1 DC per 2 points of incantation DC (maximum skill ranks + 30). The incantation must be researched specifically for the epic spell it is to mitigate. Its casting time is added to the epic spell's casting time (and is performed at some appropriate point during the spell's casting). The skill or skills involved must be intimately connected to the purpose and theme of the spell, and cannot be the caster's (or manifester's) primary Knowledge skill, Psicraft (for epic powers), or Spellcraft (for epic spells). Eligible types: Aberration, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Giant, Outsider, Ooze, Plant, Undead. An Elemental or Outsider component must also include a specific subtype. Multiple Source Spells: An epic spell can be developed that requires the caster to possess multiple forms of magical power. For example, both arcane and divine magic, or both psionic powers and shadow mysteries. The listed mitigating factor is in addition to any received for requiring an additional epic spellcasting feat (such as Epic Manifestation). The details of this mechanic vary depending on the exact spell slots used. [i]Arcane: The character must make an additional Spellcraft check at the effect's DC. Epic mysteries and powers gain somatic and verbal components, and epic utterances gain somatic components. The resulting effect is subject to effects that only affect arcane spells in addition to those that affect its base nature. The factor is -19 DC for a divine spell, or -38 DC for a different type of magic. Divine: The character must make an additional Spellcraft check at the effect's DC. Epic mysteries and powers gain somatic, verbal, and divine focus components, and epic utterances gain somatic and divine focus components. The resulting effect is subject to effects that only affect divine spells in addition to those that affect its base nature. The factor is -19 DC for an arcane spell, or -38 DC for a different type of magic. Psionic: The character must make a Psicraft check at the effect's DC. The effect gains appropriate displays, and is subject to effects that only affect psionic powers in addition to those that affect its base nature. The factor is -38 DC. Shadow: The character must make an additional Spellcraft check at the effect's DC. The effect gains appropriate components, and is subject to effects that only affect shadow mysteries in addition to those that affect its base nature. The factor is -38 DC. Truespeach: The character must make a Truespeech check at the effect's DC. The is subject to effects that only affect truespeech utterances in addition to those that affect its base nature. The factor is -38 DC.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-15-06, 05:54 PM	JD, you mentioned an epic-level Mystery slot. I don't even think those exist. And also, was the Truename recitation in constitude transitive nexusa mitigating factor, or just part of the spell?
Jaerom Darkwind 10-15-06, 07:13 PM	Epic mysteries will exist as soon as someone gets around to working out the details. There's no mechanical reason why it wouldn't work. Yes, it did include a Truename component. I used the rules for Incantation components to calculate the mitigating factor, although the DC to speak the character's Truename was 105, far above the maximum DC he could actually receive mitigation for (DC 78). Personally, I would have made incantations a big part of the Truespeech system.
Karsus the Mad 10-16-06, 02:35 PM	Updated partly:) I'll complete it when I have more time.
Jaerom Darkwind 10-16-06, 05:29 PM	Careful with the tabs there, chief. Spaces work much better. Also, you might want to see to the formatting of the lists.
gula 10-22-06, 12:15 PM	Sever Weave Contact (-25 x lvl lost) - 80; spellcaster lose all spellcasting levels but not knowledge(skills and feats remain, but become disabled if caster doesn't meet prerequisites anymore). Character starts as a 1st lvl spellcaster(his choice). Multiclass characater choose at development time which class will be affected. Spells known and spellbooks are not lost.Is it 80 or 25 per level? Does that mean he can begin gaining levels normally?
lavekkia 10-22-06, 03:42 PM	Is it 80 or 25 per level? Does that mean he can begin gaining levels normally? both to the first question (calculate mitigating factor according to the caster lvl THEN subtract another 80 ) yes to the second question
Jaerom Darkwind 11-05-06, 11:05 PM	Expanded the section on multiple power sources a bit.
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-06-06, 10:25 AM	By the way, I seem to remember a factor of the Fortify seed that could duplicate magic items. Am I crazy, or did something exist like that? It'll tie in nicely with a spell I'm making.
Draegun Fury 11-06-06, 01:31 PM	JD mentions -2 Backlash (1d12 damage) However, normal Backlash mitigation is -1 for 1d6 damage. To get -2 it would be 2d6. Since 2d6 deals, on aveage, .5 damage more than 1d12, it is actually worse. Am I missing something? Cheers.
Jaerom Darkwind 11-06-06, 05:55 PM	However, normal Backlash mitigation is -1 for 1d6 damage. To get -2 it would be 2d6. Since 2d6 deals, on aveage, .5 damage more than 1d12, it is actually worse. Am I missing something?Under the standard rules, a 50 HD character can have up to 100d6 backlash damage for -100 DC. With this factor, you can up the damage to 100d12 for -200 DC.
Draegun Fury 11-06-06, 06:16 PM	Under the standard rules, a 50 HD character can have up to 100d6 backlash damage for -100 DC. With this factor, you can up the damage to 100d12 for -200 DC. See the 100d12 for -200 DC sounds fine, the problem I see is that you can get -100 DC for 50d12 (Average of 325) whereas it used to cost 100d6 (Average of 350). Now I know its only 25pts, but its seems wrong. Cheers.
Jaerom Darkwind 11-06-06, 06:42 PM	Well, until d16s are added back into D&D, it's the best we can do.
Draegun Fury 11-06-06, 07:31 PM	Well since it is essentially just Doubling the Cap on Backlash, why not just talk your DM into making the Cap 4 times Hit Dice? Cheers.
Jaerom Darkwind 11-06-06, 07:44 PM	This seems like a cleaner method. And honestly, the character who used it had 45 HD and 900 hp. He wasn't getting killed either way.
Davus Antonius 11-07-06, 03:50 PM	Are those level dependant ad hock factors in the ELH? If not, where are they?
CelestialBarbarian 12-01-06, 03:56 PM	What do you think of this idea? Other mitigating factors: You can reduce the DC of an epic spell (but not below the sum of the base DCs of the spell seeds you employ in creating the epic spell) by having the spell make you fall asleep for a period after you cast it. Nothing can wake you from the sleep before the period expires. You fall asleep as soon as you finish casting the spell. Any caster contributing a spell slot to the casting of the epic spell falls asleep for the same period as the caster. -1/day of sleep up to 7 (-7 total possible) -1/week of sleep from 2nd through 4th week (-3 total possible) -1/month of sleep from 2nd through 12th (-11 possible) -1/year of sleep from 2nd through 10th (-9 possible) -1/decade of sleep from 2nd through 10th (-9 possible) -1/century of sleep from 2nd through 10th (-9 possible) Edit: I've included the phrase "(but not below the sum of the base DCs of the spell seeds you employ in creating the epic spell)" because I've taken BlueWizard's suggestion to not allow mitigating factors generally reduce the DC below the sum of the base DCs of the spell seeds you employ in creating the epic spell.
lavekkia 12-06-06, 02:25 PM	Burn Action Points (DC - 3 per point expended): You can lose your action point to fuel your spell; if you don't have enough action points or you can't for whatever reason use them the casting/manifesting fails
Jaerom Darkwind 12-06-06, 09:53 PM	As I said above, I think that -4 is a better factor for that.
Karsus the Mad 12-12-06, 07:56 PM	I'm no longer going to update this thread because I'm nolonger going to even bother checking the Epic Level Boards. Of course, feel free to continue posting factors and mitigating factors and discussing them. But please don't get upset that they don't appear on the front page.
ApocalypseRat 12-16-06, 02:06 PM	But well miss you karsus oh mighty archmage guy:D :weep:
SirGeshko 04-06-07, 06:44 PM	can t find it anymore; maybe i was wrong... just decrease the DC by - 2 for every 5 % (for 20 hours duration is - 2 per hour) I'm looking for something that was barely touched upon in this thread, a mitigating factor for decreased duration. The example used was for the 20 hr long Fortify Seed... I'm specifically looking at a reduced duration for the 'Permanent' Transform Seed. Basically, I'm trying to create a spell that will transform a hawk (my character's animal companion) into a Pheonix (MMII), during combat. The DC using the Transform Seed is ridiculously high, and flavor-wise the form is too flashy for the character outside of a righteous fury. :D What do you think?