Epic Tome of Battle Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Tome of Battle Classes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mlasater
05-23-07, 10:52 PM As anyone done an epic progression for the Tome of Battle (Book of Nine Swords) classes?

Any suggestions?
Frobojoe
05-24-07, 01:11 PM Warblade (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=5454)

Swordsage (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=5361)

Crusader/other stuff (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=7511)
Salernodc
05-24-07, 09:08 PM The classes linked in the above post are a little puzzling. Neither epic class adds more maneuvers or stances. That makes no sense. Maneuvers are not exactly like spells. I know spellcasters don't get to add more spells after 20th level, but they also get 30+ spells per day not including modifier bonuses.

If a character couldn't obtain new maneuvers & stances past 20th level, that would not allow said character to really amass a repertoire of maneuevers.

I also think that any new, epic only martial adept PrC should allow characters to gain maneuvers at the same rate of a class like The Master of Nine. No reason that an epic character should not be able to more easily acquire low level maneuvers to gain access to the higher level ones.

Just my 2 cents.
mlasater
05-24-07, 11:26 PM Thanks
Krispieman
05-25-07, 04:28 AM @Salernodc: While you are correct that maneuvers aren't exactly like spells, allowing for a continued progressions of maneuvers and stances would in time cause any martial adept to know all there is to know.

I don't exactly remember where, but we've had this discussion before as I was wondering the same thing. The conclusion was that is was probably best not to allow the epic progressions to aquire new maneuvers/stances, but should you take a different martial (prestige) class at epic, you gain maneuvers/stances as normal for the class.

So while a Warblade 40 still has the maneuvers/stances of a Warblade 20 (be it with added epic feats) a Warblade 20/Swordsage 20, would have a giant repertoire of them.

You may agree or not, but this is probably the most balanced method for epic martial progressions.

K-man :cool:
Frobojoe
05-25-07, 02:08 PM The classes linked in the above post are a little puzzling. Neither epic class adds more maneuvers or stances. That makes no sense. Maneuvers are not exactly like spells. I know spellcasters don't get to add more spells after 20th level, but they also get 30+ spells per day not including modifier bonuses.

If a character couldn't obtain new maneuvers & stances past 20th level, that would not allow said character to really amass a repertoire of maneuevers.

I also think that any new, epic only martial adept PrC should allow characters to gain maneuvers at the same rate of a class like The Master of Nine. No reason that an epic character should not be able to more easily acquire low level maneuvers to gain access to the higher level ones.

Just my 2 cents.
They can acquire more maneuvers known via the Epic Martial Study and Epic Martial Stance feats, both of which are on their bonus feat list. If you'd like, you could also simply allow martial adepts to continue to swap out one maneuver known for a different one ate very even-numbered level, as they do pre-epic.
Salernodc
05-29-07, 03:32 PM @Krispieman -

I appreciate your mature and lucid response. After reading through your post, I'm agreeing to disagree.

One of your quotes - allowing for a continued progressions of maneuvers and stances would in time cause any martial adept to know all there is to know. Exactly - an epic level martial adept should know a laundry list of the maneuvers in their given styles. They cannot necessarily know all there is to know because each does not have access to all nine styles. In fact, it's 3/6/5 for the base classes.

I don't believe the method you subscribe to is balanced, but I respect your desire to go with the progression you like. Cheers.
LordPendragon
06-01-07, 06:40 PM So... is it just me, or are those links broken??
Frobojoe
06-01-07, 06:55 PM So... is it just me, or are those links broken??

The Dicefreaks site is down right now, so it's not just you.
LordPendragon
06-01-07, 07:10 PM In any case, I like the idea of not gaining any new manoeuvres per day after 20th level. However, I think a mechanic for epic manoeuvres should be created (much like that for epic spells).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mlasater 05-23-07, 10:52 PM	As anyone done an epic progression for the Tome of Battle (Book of Nine Swords) classes? Any suggestions?
Frobojoe 05-24-07, 01:11 PM	Warblade (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=5454) Swordsage (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=5361) Crusader/other stuff (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=7511)
Salernodc 05-24-07, 09:08 PM	The classes linked in the above post are a little puzzling. Neither epic class adds more maneuvers or stances. That makes no sense. Maneuvers are not exactly like spells. I know spellcasters don't get to add more spells after 20th level, but they also get 30+ spells per day not including modifier bonuses. If a character couldn't obtain new maneuvers & stances past 20th level, that would not allow said character to really amass a repertoire of maneuevers. I also think that any new, epic only martial adept PrC should allow characters to gain maneuvers at the same rate of a class like The Master of Nine. No reason that an epic character should not be able to more easily acquire low level maneuvers to gain access to the higher level ones. Just my 2 cents.
mlasater 05-24-07, 11:26 PM	Thanks
Krispieman 05-25-07, 04:28 AM	@Salernodc: While you are correct that maneuvers aren't exactly like spells, allowing for a continued progressions of maneuvers and stances would in time cause any martial adept to know all there is to know. I don't exactly remember where, but we've had this discussion before as I was wondering the same thing. The conclusion was that is was probably best not to allow the epic progressions to aquire new maneuvers/stances, but should you take a different martial (prestige) class at epic, you gain maneuvers/stances as normal for the class. So while a Warblade 40 still has the maneuvers/stances of a Warblade 20 (be it with added epic feats) a Warblade 20/Swordsage 20, would have a giant repertoire of them. You may agree or not, but this is probably the most balanced method for epic martial progressions. K-man :cool:
Frobojoe 05-25-07, 02:08 PM	The classes linked in the above post are a little puzzling. Neither epic class adds more maneuvers or stances. That makes no sense. Maneuvers are not exactly like spells. I know spellcasters don't get to add more spells after 20th level, but they also get 30+ spells per day not including modifier bonuses. If a character couldn't obtain new maneuvers & stances past 20th level, that would not allow said character to really amass a repertoire of maneuevers. I also think that any new, epic only martial adept PrC should allow characters to gain maneuvers at the same rate of a class like The Master of Nine. No reason that an epic character should not be able to more easily acquire low level maneuvers to gain access to the higher level ones. Just my 2 cents. They can acquire more maneuvers known via the Epic Martial Study and Epic Martial Stance feats, both of which are on their bonus feat list. If you'd like, you could also simply allow martial adepts to continue to swap out one maneuver known for a different one ate very even-numbered level, as they do pre-epic.
Salernodc 05-29-07, 03:32 PM	@Krispieman - I appreciate your mature and lucid response. After reading through your post, I'm agreeing to disagree. One of your quotes - allowing for a continued progressions of maneuvers and stances would in time cause any martial adept to know all there is to know. Exactly - an epic level martial adept should know a laundry list of the maneuvers in their given styles. They cannot necessarily know all there is to know because each does not have access to all nine styles. In fact, it's 3/6/5 for the base classes. I don't believe the method you subscribe to is balanced, but I respect your desire to go with the progression you like. Cheers.
LordPendragon 06-01-07, 06:40 PM	So... is it just me, or are those links broken??
Frobojoe 06-01-07, 06:55 PM	So... is it just me, or are those links broken?? The Dicefreaks site is down right now, so it's not just you.
LordPendragon 06-01-07, 07:10 PM	In any case, I like the idea of not gaining any new manoeuvres per day after 20th level. However, I think a mechanic for epic manoeuvres should be created (much like that for epic spells).