Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 04-23-07, 11:34 PM	I'm putting together an NPC that my players' PCs have hired to accompany them into a labyrinth they know to be trapped. I made him up on the spot, making him an antiques dealer and expert treasure-hunter. I could just make him a straight rogue, but I thought it might be more fun to see what interesting builds if any people might create. I'm looking at a level somewhere around 20-22. I'm interested not only in prestige classes but also feats. Thanks! :)
runestar 04-23-07, 11:59 PM	What sort of abilities are you exactly looking for in a "treasure hunter build?":P
Thanael 04-24-07, 04:34 AM	Expert5/Rogue5/DungeonDelver 10 (it's from Complete Adventurer i think) or Rogue10/DungeonDelver10 if you don't want any NPC classes. If advanced to epic, Trap Sense/EpicTrapfinding is a must.
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-24-07, 06:45 AM	Trapfinder would be neat to have in there. Rogue 6/ Dungeon Delver 10/ Trapfinder 5
CelestialBarbarian 04-24-07, 07:35 AM	Trapfinder would be neat to have in there. Rogue 6/ Dungeon Delver 10/ Trapfinder 5 Thanks everyone! :) From what source does trapfinder come? If I take him to 21st or 22nd, what would you recommend for the extra level(s)? What about the non-epic feats? Thanks! :)
Thanael 04-24-07, 10:16 AM	Never heard of Trapfinder PrC before. You could also adapt the Loredelver PrC from Races of Destiny. It's a Wizard/Rogue multiclas PrC with some lore skill, that is accessible for Illumians only. The Lore part would fit with the antique dealer bit. One of the 3E Ravenloft books has the Tomb Raider PrC, which would also fit nicely.
CelestialBarbarian 04-24-07, 01:52 PM	Never heard of Trapfinder PrC before. You could also adapt the Loredelver PrC from Races of Destiny. It's a Wizard/Rogue multiclas PrC with some lore skill, that is accessible for Illumians only. The Lore part would fit with the antique dealer bit. One of the 3E Ravenloft books has the Tomb Raider PrC, which would also fit nicely. Alas I don't have either of those books, but those sound like great ideas! Probably I'll end up going with something like rogue 10/dungeon delver 10+ or maybe rogue 10/temple raider 10+. Thanks! Do you have any ideas for feats, epic or non-epic?
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-24-07, 09:42 PM	Trapfinder's a new PrC in Dungeonscape. It's okay, notable because its spell list has a bunch of powerful spells at low level (For example, Wall of Stone as 3rd level. What a cheap wand). I personally wouldn't go with Temple Raider-Spells and abilities are too limited (I like the flavor though; bit of a sucker punch).
CelestialBarbarian 04-24-07, 11:37 PM	Trapfinder's a new PrC in Dungeonscape. It's okay, notable because its spell list has a bunch of powerful spells at low level (For example, Wall of Stone as 3rd level. What a cheap wand). I personally wouldn't go with Temple Raider-Spells and abilities are too limited (I like the flavor though; bit of a sucker punch). Ah, ok, thanks. I suspect that getting a single prestige class probably doesn't justify the price of the book. As for the temple raider, do you mean by "sucker punch" that it's more cool-looking than it is useful? :)
Thanael 04-25-07, 03:29 AM	Concerning epic feats Epic Trapfinding is most probably out of the question as it requires a CL of 22 and he gets no feat at that level. So for the CL21 epic feat I'd suggest: Improved Darkvision, Epic Skill Focus or Legendary Climber perhaps.
hallblithe 04-25-07, 04:22 AM	Hi! I would suggest PT1 (psionic version of the spell thief from CA), Seer 20 and then Agent Retriever. You might consider taking Epic Manifestation to duplicate Epic Trap Sense (only available at level 24 with 24 ranks of spot and search - the Skill Knowledge feat helps here, add Disable Device as the other cross class skill). The other EM slot could be used for a 24hr duration modified Metamorphosis, Greater - retain own Su abilities, but gain Ex of current form. Have fun!
Taeldrin Laesrash 04-25-07, 08:56 AM	Ah, ok, thanks. I suspect that getting a single prestige class probably doesn't justify the price of the book. As for the temple raider, do you mean by "sucker punch" that it's more cool-looking than it is useful? :) Yeah, that's it. As for feats, I'd definately go with Epic Dodge if you qualify for it, and maybe some of those Ambush feats.
Thanael 04-25-07, 09:24 AM	Epic Dodge is available at CL 27 at the earliest. But at least he gets Improved Evasion from Dungeon Delver.
CelestialBarbarian 04-25-07, 12:01 PM	Concerning epic feats Epic Trapfinding is most probably out of the question as it requires a CL of 22 and he gets no feat at that level. So for the CL21 epic feat I'd suggest: Improved Darkvision, Epic Skill Focus or Legendary Climber perhaps. I'm guessing you mean the epic feat Trap Sense. I couldn't find anything called Epic Trapfinding either in ELH or in CA. If I go with dungeon delver he'll already have darkvision, and while an extra 30' isn't bad, I'm tempted to go with Epic Skill Focus with something like Search, Disable Device, or Open Locks. Thanks! :)
Balthanon 04-25-07, 12:17 PM	Concerning epic feats Epic Trapfinding is most probably out of the question as it requires a CL of 22 and he gets no feat at that level. It should be possible to get if he's interested fairly easily though. There are a number of prestige classes and classes that grant bonus feats with no restrictions. Actually, the easiest thing to do might actually be to go with something like Rogue 11/Dungeon Delver 8/Human Paragon 3 for that. That will grab a bonus feat at level 22 that can be anything you'd like. Human Paragon could be taken near the beginning of the progression to grab something like Knowledge (history) and finished at 22.
CelestialBarbarian 04-25-07, 12:30 PM	Ah, ok, thanks. I suspect that getting a single prestige class probably doesn't justify the price of the book. As for the temple raider, do you mean by "sucker punch" that it's more cool-looking than it is useful? :) Yeah, that's it. As for feats, I'd definately go with Epic Dodge if you qualify for it, and maybe some of those Ambush feats. Yes, there are many prestige classes that sound good but aren't all that useful. What's an "Ambush feat?" Epic Dodge is available at CL 27 at the earliest. But at least he gets Improved Evasion from Dungeon Delver. The PCs are only levels 20 and 21. I don't want the NPC to be so far above them. It's too bad really, because Epic Dodge is an awesome feat, but I'm sure there will be a chance in the future for me to give it to an NPC--maybe an enemy NPC. MUhaha! :D
CelestialBarbarian 04-25-07, 01:40 PM	Hi! I would suggest PT1 (psionic version of the spell thief from CA), Seer 20 and then Agent Retriever. You might consider taking Epic Manifestation to duplicate Epic Trap Sense (only available at level 24 with 24 ranks of spot and search - the Skill Knowledge feat helps here, add Disable Device as the other cross class skill). The other EM slot could be used for a 24hr duration modified Metamorphosis, Greater - retain own Su abilities, but gain Ex of current form. Have fun! These sound intriguing. Thanks! I can't find a spell thief in either Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane. Is there another CA? Maybe you mean California, as they certainly have some unusual people out there. ;) I used psionics in my current campaign when we started under 3.0, but the player playing the psionic character moved out of state before the Expanded Psionic Handbook came out and we never converted his character to 3.5. I haven't seen a single psionic character since then, either in my campaign or in anyone else's campaign, so while I read the EPH when it first came out I'd have to relearn how it all works. Most likely I'll go with a build that requires less work on my part since I'm still putting together the monsters and traps for what's going to be their first dungeon in ages. I really though appreciate the ideas! Thanks!! :cool:
Balthanon 04-25-07, 05:41 PM	I can't find a spell thief in either Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane. Is there another CA? Maybe you mean California, as they certainly have some unusual people out there. ;) Spellthief is a base class in Complete Adventurer. Check near the beginning of the book-- it basically resolves around stealing spells, spell-like abilities, and other special abilities from monsters and characters. It also gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, similar to a Hexblade and has most of the basic rogue skills, though it has fewer skill points. Not sure where a psionic version is printed.
CelestialBarbarian 04-25-07, 05:51 PM	Spellthief is a base class in Complete Adventurer. Check near the beginning of the book-- it basically resolves around stealing spells, spell-like abilities, and other special abilities from monsters and characters. It also gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, similar to a Hexblade and has most of the basic rogue skills, though it has fewer skill points. Not sure where a psionic version is printed. Ah, silly me! I didn't think to look under base classes. I looked only under prestige classes. Thanks! :) The spell-stealing abilities seem cool, but I'm not sure how they fit with the expert treasure-hunter idea.
hallblithe 04-27-07, 03:23 AM	Hi again! Given that my suggested epic treasure finder will not advance as beyond first level as a powerthief, his signature ability is almost irrrelevant: that he has class skills such Disable Device, Gather Information, K(Psi), Psicraft, Search and Spot, plus, of course, trapfinding is much more interesting. However, with the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel, there is no reason to abandon this ability... Regards, RS