Freedom of Movement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Freedom of Movement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rob_douglas
02-27-08, 12:26 AM Did anyone notice this new interpretation on Freedom of Movement:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080226a

Which would significantly change a lot of the way people have tended to run FoM. This interpretation may be good for some who don't like absolutes in their game, but others of us have had FoM bypassing Hold Person since 1E, and expect that. And what about Paralysis - is that a physical or mental impediment to movement?

Anyway, I thought it would have particular interest on this board, as we have talked about FoM effects before, in the context of being expected and required.

ROB
Old_Troll
02-27-08, 01:25 PM I read that this morning and agree with it completely. In additon,my long time group of outcasts has been grappling with creating a new version of Freedom of Movement as the current is too powerful. In too many encounters FoM or a ring of FoM has made a mockery of a creature's grapple abilities, which many of them use as their primary attack. NO MORE! A shorter duration might do it for the spell itself, but as a ring,...well... a better all round solution is needed. Don't know what it will be just yet, but will post when done.

A side note. We restructured Deathward (sooo broken) so that the caster can cast it in its traditional manner but for rounds per level, or cast it with a duration of 10min/Level but it acts as ablative armor points. (1+1/2lvls). The costs are:

1pt/negative level

1pt/ability point drained

1pt/level of negative energy type save-or-die spell

1pt/10pts of negative energy damage

If not enough points to stop a save-or-die spell, subtract remaining armor points from spell DC.

It has not been play tested yet.
sin_vraal
03-04-08, 06:12 AM Did anyone notice this new interpretation on Freedom of Movement:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080226a

Which would significantly change a lot of the way people have tended to run FoM. This interpretation may be good for some who don't like absolutes in their game, but others of us have had FoM bypassing Hold Person since 1E, and expect that. And what about Paralysis - is that a physical or mental impediment to movement?

Anyway, I thought it would have particular interest on this board, as we have talked about FoM effects before, in the context of being expected and required.

ROB

I think the new Fom interpretation brings the obvious to light... I think everyone intuitively knows it doesn't affect mental impairment, only the rules lawyer in us wants to argue it...

Now Fom Bypassing Hold person in 1E... I dont recall if it was mind affecting or not... but I believe it was not... 3E the spell IS mind affecting (and pretty much useless) and so has no effect now.

It still doesn't solve the fundamental problems of Fom ... grappling, but Epic grapple is basically broken and thus this spell is still required gear for epic.

I still dont know why they just come out and clearly define what it does...

Like many things in epic... I'm really leaning towards resistance rather than immunity; aka FoM == +10,20,30 grapple resistance. or Energy resist 10/20/30.

and ideally deathward = 1/2/3 level resist ... and still take damage from death effects (currently you just don't take anything... seems ... bad.)

Players and creatures are just basically immune to everything by about 12th level and up.

I'm thinking no immunity (immune == resist 30) unless your elemental and no SR vs elemental damage (and no sonic energy sub) and I think people might actually be inclined to play the game with iconic fireball again

But I digress
malignor
03-04-08, 01:06 PM I think the biggest thorn in the side of this interpretation of FoM is... It implies that any movement-impairing effect that works on the mind's ability to control the body ignores FoM The spell Slow is resisted by a Will save, which implies that it's a mind-over matter effect. The description of FoM specifically includes the spell Slow as one of the spells it counteracts.

Ouch.

If I were to suggest a stipulation for FoM, treat it as the overpowered best case, but it can be defeated by caster level checks, almost as if FoM were a constant Greater Dispel Magic versus all such spells, instead of simply trumping them automatically. Any non-magical effect (such as being tied up by ropes or running through waist-deep mud) is simply defeated by FoM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rob_douglas 02-27-08, 12:26 AM	Did anyone notice this new interpretation on Freedom of Movement: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080226a Which would significantly change a lot of the way people have tended to run FoM. This interpretation may be good for some who don't like absolutes in their game, but others of us have had FoM bypassing Hold Person since 1E, and expect that. And what about Paralysis - is that a physical or mental impediment to movement? Anyway, I thought it would have particular interest on this board, as we have talked about FoM effects before, in the context of being expected and required. ROB
Old_Troll 02-27-08, 01:25 PM	I read that this morning and agree with it completely. In additon,my long time group of outcasts has been grappling with creating a new version of Freedom of Movement as the current is too powerful. In too many encounters FoM or a ring of FoM has made a mockery of a creature's grapple abilities, which many of them use as their primary attack. NO MORE! A shorter duration might do it for the spell itself, but as a ring,...well... a better all round solution is needed. Don't know what it will be just yet, but will post when done. A side note. We restructured Deathward (sooo broken) so that the caster can cast it in its traditional manner but for rounds per level, or cast it with a duration of 10min/Level but it acts as ablative armor points. (1+1/2lvls). The costs are: 1pt/negative level 1pt/ability point drained 1pt/level of negative energy type save-or-die spell 1pt/10pts of negative energy damage If not enough points to stop a save-or-die spell, subtract remaining armor points from spell DC. It has not been play tested yet.
sin_vraal 03-04-08, 06:12 AM	Did anyone notice this new interpretation on Freedom of Movement: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080226a Which would significantly change a lot of the way people have tended to run FoM. This interpretation may be good for some who don't like absolutes in their game, but others of us have had FoM bypassing Hold Person since 1E, and expect that. And what about Paralysis - is that a physical or mental impediment to movement? Anyway, I thought it would have particular interest on this board, as we have talked about FoM effects before, in the context of being expected and required. ROB I think the new Fom interpretation brings the obvious to light... I think everyone intuitively knows it doesn't affect mental impairment, only the rules lawyer in us wants to argue it... Now Fom Bypassing Hold person in 1E... I dont recall if it was mind affecting or not... but I believe it was not... 3E the spell IS mind affecting (and pretty much useless) and so has no effect now. It still doesn't solve the fundamental problems of Fom ... grappling, but Epic grapple is basically broken and thus this spell is still required gear for epic. I still dont know why they just come out and clearly define what it does... Like many things in epic... I'm really leaning towards resistance rather than immunity; aka FoM == +10,20,30 grapple resistance. or Energy resist 10/20/30. and ideally deathward = 1/2/3 level resist ... and still take damage from death effects (currently you just don't take anything... seems ... bad.) Players and creatures are just basically immune to everything by about 12th level and up. I'm thinking no immunity (immune == resist 30) unless your elemental and no SR vs elemental damage (and no sonic energy sub) and I think people might actually be inclined to play the game with iconic fireball again But I digress
malignor 03-04-08, 01:06 PM	I think the biggest thorn in the side of this interpretation of FoM is... It implies that any movement-impairing effect that works on the mind's ability to control the body ignores FoM The spell Slow is resisted by a Will save, which implies that it's a mind-over matter effect. The description of FoM specifically includes the spell Slow as one of the spells it counteracts. Ouch. If I were to suggest a stipulation for FoM, treat it as the overpowered best case, but it can be defeated by caster level checks, almost as if FoM were a constant Greater Dispel Magic versus all such spells, instead of simply trumping them automatically. Any non-magical effect (such as being tied up by ropes or running through waist-deep mud) is simply defeated by FoM.