Help designing Gish Epic PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help designing Gish Epic PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
danelsan
12-08-07, 02:48 PM Hello people. The warrior-mage is one of my favorites in terms of character concepts. There are many PrC that allow one to be a great "gish". But I've not seen an Epic PrC that really captures the feel of those characters, so I started designing such class, based on features from several other classes. I do not create classes frequently, much less epic PrC, so I'd like some imput regarding balance on this one. I showed it to another DM, and he thinks it is too powerful, kinda like "Raumathari Battlemage on steroids". But I'd like to hear other opinions and sugestions.

For now, I'll just call it the legendary battlemage to make it generic:

Fluffwise, this epic PrC represents the mastery of combat and magic together while pursuing the secrets of merging magic in armors and weapon, and studies both destructive and protective spells as well as wasy for making the spells tailored for the needs of each battle. Of course, it represents the pinacle of such pursuits. I paln to use it for a level 50 NPC that should be the most powerful mortal in my world's history

Hit die: d8
Requirements:
BAB: +23
Feats: Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, any 2 metamagic feats, Craft magic arms and armor
Epic feats: Craft Epic magic arms and armor,
Skills: Knowledge [Arcana] 24 ranks, craft [weaponsmith] 6 ranks, craft [armorsmith] 6 ranks, Concentration 18 ranks
Spellcasting: ability to cast 9th level arcane spells. Must know at least 10 spells of the Evocation school and 10 of the Abjuration school
Use weapon and Armor: proficiency with simple and martial weapons, all armors and Shields (except tower shields)
Special: Must have the ability to completely avoid the chance of spell failure from any light or medium armor (for this ability, consider armor made of normal materials - no mythral armor, but no need to be able to deal with gold armor).

Class Skills
The class skills for the legendary battlemage (and the key abilities for each skill) are: craft (int), Concentration (con), Decipher script (int), Knowledge (arcana, the planes) (int), profession (wis), spellcraft (int), ride (dex) and use Magic device (cha)
Skill points each level: 2+ Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Legendary Battlemage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the legendary battlemage does not receive proficiency in any weapons, armors or Shields.

Spells Per Day/Spells Known: At each Legendary Battlemage level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. If already na epic spellcaster, the character gains only the benefit noted under the Spells entry for that epic class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Legendary Battlemage, the player must decide to which class to add each Raumathari battlemage level for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Improved Arcane Strike: At first level, the legendary battlemage can make better use of his arcane strike feat, gaining 1d6 x spell level as extra damage instead of 1d4 x spell level.

Battle Spell (Su): As a free action, the Legendary battlemage may apply a single metamagic feat to a spell as he casts it. The battlemage must have the metamagic feat He wishes to apply. Unlike a bard or sorcerer's use of metamagic feats, this does not affect the casting time of the spell. The spell level adjustment of the metamagic applied must be not greater than one half your class level, to a maximum of 5 at class level 10. Upon reaching class level 8, these adjustments can be divided among various metamagic feats. But if you can’t reduce the level increase to zero, you can’t apply the feat as you cast the spell. A spell level increase of zero counts as ½ for the purposes of this ability. So, a level 8 Legendary Battlemage could use battle spell to cast a spell while apllying silent spell, extend spell and empower spell to it, without modifying the spell level, but He can’t aplly the intensify spell metamagic feat, because he can’t reduce it’s cost to zero. The epic feat Improved Metamagic does not affect this ability. The maximum level of the spells the Battlemage can cast with a battle spell free metamagic is equal to his class level, up to 9th level spells at level 9

Imbue Spell (Su): The Legendary Battlemage can imbue a spell in his armor, shield or weapon. Imbuing a shield or armor requires the spell to be cast as normal, except it remains stored in the armor or shield until used. A spell imbued in a set of armor works as if affected by the Retributive Spell metamagic feat, except it won’t change the spell level. A spell imbued in a shield allows you to spend the spell as a free action to counterspell the same spell if used against you or affecting you. When imbuing a spell to a weapon, instead of the normal casting you can, as a free action, cast the spell through your melee weapon as you attack with it. A spell imbued this way targets the creature hit by the battlemage's weapon, which still gets a saving throw if the spell allows one. Even if a spell can target more than one creature or an area, channeling it through the weapon limits its effect to the single opponent attacked. If the weapon attack misses, the channeled spell is wasted. Any of the three possible uses of this ability counts against the daily limit, so a Legendary Battlemage of level 6 with a spell imbued in his armor could only imbue one more spell in any of the three ways allowed by this ability. Only one spell at a time can be imbued to a shield, armor or weapon, and the hightest spell level the legendary battlemage can imbue is equal to his class level, up to a maximum of 9th level spells

Bonus feat: at level 4 and every 6 levels thereafter the legendary battlemage gains a bônus feat. These feats must be selected from the following list:
Armor Skin, Automatic Still Spell, Combat Archery, Damage Reduction, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Distant Shot, Enhance Spell, Epic Prowess, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Toughness, Epic Weapon Focus, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Manyshot, Improved Spell Capacity, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Instant Reload, Legendary Rider, Overwhelming Critical, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Permanent Emanation, Spell Knowledge, Spell Opportunity, Spell Stowaway, Spellcasting Harrier, Spontaneous Spell, Storm of Throws, Superior Initiative, Swarm of Arrows, Tenacious Magic, Two-Weapon Rend, Uncanny Accuracy.

Supreme Arcane Strike: Upon reaching level 7, the legendary battlemage gains extra damage from his Arcane Strike feat equal to 1d8 x spell level of the sacrificed spell or spell slot.

Destroy Spell Resistance (Su): This ability only workswhen the legendary battlemage is attacking imbuing his melee weapon with a spell and the weapon used can penetrate any damage reduction other than DR/ - the attacked foe have. If the attack causes damage from the weapon hit and the spell imbued surpasses the enemy’s spell resistance (and the foe fails his save, if the spell allows one) then the legendary battlemage “breaks” the enemy’s spell resistance for a while. Acheiving this reduces that oponent’s SR by 5 during one round for each 5 class levels. Thus a character with 15 leves in this class may reduce the SR by 5, for a duration of 3 rounds. Uses of this ability are no cumulative, but can be used against the same target once the previous duration has ended.

Level Special
1 Improved arcane strike
2 Battle spell 1/day
3 Imbue Spell 1/day
4 Bonus feat
5 Battle spell 2/day
6 Imbue Spell 2/dia
7 Supreme Arcane Strike
8 Battle spell 3/day (multiple metamagic feats)
9 Imbue Spell 3/day
10 Destroy spell resistance, bonus feat

Of course, there is also full spellcasting every level thta is not on the table

As my friend said there is a lot of raumathari battlemage in there (wich does not exist in my campaign) but usually better, as well as inspiration from spellsword, daggerspell mage and even frenzied beserker.

I think the class is powerful, but on par as ones such as the Divine Emissary, and has pretty heavy requirements. Still, I may change the capstone ability and rearange thinks to have only one bonus feat in the first 10 levels

So, coments, critiques or recomendations?
Tequila_Sunrise
12-09-07, 10:24 PM Hello people. The warrior-mage is one of my favorites in terms of character concepts. There are many PrC that allow one to be a great "gish". But I've not seen an Epic PrC that really captures the feel of those characters, so I started designing such class, based on features from several other classes.

I don't know how others feel but I myself think that class creators too often leap to "Prestige Class!" when a base class would be more appropriate. Additionally, I've never seen the point of epic PrCs at all. So it might help us to know what exactly you're trying to accomplish with your epic prestige class.
Kamin_Majere
12-10-07, 09:30 AM Whats wrong with Eldritch knight? You get Caster level increases every level and bonus feats. Its pretty good if you've already designed a pre epic gish as it removes the need to go back to wizard to qualify for the epic class.

Honestly taking a 50th level charater building a ToB/wizard gish with Eldritch Knight will easily give you epic spells and 9th level manuvers/stances. You should be as Gish"ey" as you want to be.
BillTheManiac
12-10-07, 12:40 PM If you have any cool abilities, you can probably just make them epic feats.
Tequila_Sunrise
12-10-07, 03:07 PM Whats wrong with Eldritch knight? You get Caster level increases every level and bonus feats. Its pretty good if you've already designed a pre epic gish as it removes the need to go back to wizard to qualify for the epic class.

Honestly taking a 50th level charater building a ToB/wizard gish with Eldritch Knight will easily give you epic spells and 9th level manuvers/stances. You should be as Gish"ey" as you want to be.

How would a EK get 9th level maneuvers--unless you mean taking 20 levels of a ToB class and then going EK?
archerpwr
12-10-07, 03:35 PM If you have any cool abilities, you can probably just make them epic feats.

+1
bluetooth
12-11-07, 10:00 PM Your PrC doesn't look bad, but I think it's unnecessary. Of course it depends largely on your build, but since a properly built gish has access to epic spellcasting, I'd suggest focusing on a spellcasting class (bear with me on this).

You won't get the HD that you would, but since saves and EAP are the same for everyone hp are your only issue, and there's a good chance you can make an epic spell that will help you deal with that somehow.

If you have a really nice (read: crazy) DM, take the elven high mage and make some personal mythals. Of course if you're making personal mythals it's either a single player game or it soon will be. (I mostly mention it for humor value, though I think it could be appropriate it some single player games)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
danelsan 12-08-07, 02:48 PM	Hello people. The warrior-mage is one of my favorites in terms of character concepts. There are many PrC that allow one to be a great "gish". But I've not seen an Epic PrC that really captures the feel of those characters, so I started designing such class, based on features from several other classes. I do not create classes frequently, much less epic PrC, so I'd like some imput regarding balance on this one. I showed it to another DM, and he thinks it is too powerful, kinda like "Raumathari Battlemage on steroids". But I'd like to hear other opinions and sugestions. For now, I'll just call it the legendary battlemage to make it generic: Fluffwise, this epic PrC represents the mastery of combat and magic together while pursuing the secrets of merging magic in armors and weapon, and studies both destructive and protective spells as well as wasy for making the spells tailored for the needs of each battle. Of course, it represents the pinacle of such pursuits. I paln to use it for a level 50 NPC that should be the most powerful mortal in my world's history Hit die: d8 Requirements: BAB: +23 Feats: Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, any 2 metamagic feats, Craft magic arms and armor Epic feats: Craft Epic magic arms and armor, Skills: Knowledge [Arcana] 24 ranks, craft [weaponsmith] 6 ranks, craft [armorsmith] 6 ranks, Concentration 18 ranks Spellcasting: ability to cast 9th level arcane spells. Must know at least 10 spells of the Evocation school and 10 of the Abjuration school Use weapon and Armor: proficiency with simple and martial weapons, all armors and Shields (except tower shields) Special: Must have the ability to completely avoid the chance of spell failure from any light or medium armor (for this ability, consider armor made of normal materials - no mythral armor, but no need to be able to deal with gold armor). Class Skills The class skills for the legendary battlemage (and the key abilities for each skill) are: craft (int), Concentration (con), Decipher script (int), Knowledge (arcana, the planes) (int), profession (wis), spellcraft (int), ride (dex) and use Magic device (cha) Skill points each level: 2+ Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the Legendary Battlemage. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the legendary battlemage does not receive proficiency in any weapons, armors or Shields. Spells Per Day/Spells Known: At each Legendary Battlemage level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. If already na epic spellcaster, the character gains only the benefit noted under the Spells entry for that epic class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Legendary Battlemage, the player must decide to which class to add each Raumathari battlemage level for the purpose of determining spells per day. Improved Arcane Strike: At first level, the legendary battlemage can make better use of his arcane strike feat, gaining 1d6 x spell level as extra damage instead of 1d4 x spell level. Battle Spell (Su): As a free action, the Legendary battlemage may apply a single metamagic feat to a spell as he casts it. The battlemage must have the metamagic feat He wishes to apply. Unlike a bard or sorcerer's use of metamagic feats, this does not affect the casting time of the spell. The spell level adjustment of the metamagic applied must be not greater than one half your class level, to a maximum of 5 at class level 10. Upon reaching class level 8, these adjustments can be divided among various metamagic feats. But if you can’t reduce the level increase to zero, you can’t apply the feat as you cast the spell. A spell level increase of zero counts as ½ for the purposes of this ability. So, a level 8 Legendary Battlemage could use battle spell to cast a spell while apllying silent spell, extend spell and empower spell to it, without modifying the spell level, but He can’t aplly the intensify spell metamagic feat, because he can’t reduce it’s cost to zero. The epic feat Improved Metamagic does not affect this ability. The maximum level of the spells the Battlemage can cast with a battle spell free metamagic is equal to his class level, up to 9th level spells at level 9 Imbue Spell (Su): The Legendary Battlemage can imbue a spell in his armor, shield or weapon. Imbuing a shield or armor requires the spell to be cast as normal, except it remains stored in the armor or shield until used. A spell imbued in a set of armor works as if affected by the Retributive Spell metamagic feat, except it won’t change the spell level. A spell imbued in a shield allows you to spend the spell as a free action to counterspell the same spell if used against you or affecting you. When imbuing a spell to a weapon, instead of the normal casting you can, as a free action, cast the spell through your melee weapon as you attack with it. A spell imbued this way targets the creature hit by the battlemage's weapon, which still gets a saving throw if the spell allows one. Even if a spell can target more than one creature or an area, channeling it through the weapon limits its effect to the single opponent attacked. If the weapon attack misses, the channeled spell is wasted. Any of the three possible uses of this ability counts against the daily limit, so a Legendary Battlemage of level 6 with a spell imbued in his armor could only imbue one more spell in any of the three ways allowed by this ability. Only one spell at a time can be imbued to a shield, armor or weapon, and the hightest spell level the legendary battlemage can imbue is equal to his class level, up to a maximum of 9th level spells Bonus feat: at level 4 and every 6 levels thereafter the legendary battlemage gains a bônus feat. These feats must be selected from the following list: Armor Skin, Automatic Still Spell, Combat Archery, Damage Reduction, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Distant Shot, Enhance Spell, Epic Prowess, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Toughness, Epic Weapon Focus, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Manyshot, Improved Spell Capacity, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Instant Reload, Legendary Rider, Overwhelming Critical, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Permanent Emanation, Spell Knowledge, Spell Opportunity, Spell Stowaway, Spellcasting Harrier, Spontaneous Spell, Storm of Throws, Superior Initiative, Swarm of Arrows, Tenacious Magic, Two-Weapon Rend, Uncanny Accuracy. Supreme Arcane Strike: Upon reaching level 7, the legendary battlemage gains extra damage from his Arcane Strike feat equal to 1d8 x spell level of the sacrificed spell or spell slot. Destroy Spell Resistance (Su): This ability only workswhen the legendary battlemage is attacking imbuing his melee weapon with a spell and the weapon used can penetrate any damage reduction other than DR/ - the attacked foe have. If the attack causes damage from the weapon hit and the spell imbued surpasses the enemy’s spell resistance (and the foe fails his save, if the spell allows one) then the legendary battlemage “breaks” the enemy’s spell resistance for a while. Acheiving this reduces that oponent’s SR by 5 during one round for each 5 class levels. Thus a character with 15 leves in this class may reduce the SR by 5, for a duration of 3 rounds. Uses of this ability are no cumulative, but can be used against the same target once the previous duration has ended. Level Special 1 Improved arcane strike 2 Battle spell 1/day 3 Imbue Spell 1/day 4 Bonus feat 5 Battle spell 2/day 6 Imbue Spell 2/dia 7 Supreme Arcane Strike 8 Battle spell 3/day (multiple metamagic feats) 9 Imbue Spell 3/day 10 Destroy spell resistance, bonus feat Of course, there is also full spellcasting every level thta is not on the table As my friend said there is a lot of raumathari battlemage in there (wich does not exist in my campaign) but usually better, as well as inspiration from spellsword, daggerspell mage and even frenzied beserker. I think the class is powerful, but on par as ones such as the Divine Emissary, and has pretty heavy requirements. Still, I may change the capstone ability and rearange thinks to have only one bonus feat in the first 10 levels So, coments, critiques or recomendations?
Tequila_Sunrise 12-09-07, 10:24 PM	Hello people. The warrior-mage is one of my favorites in terms of character concepts. There are many PrC that allow one to be a great "gish". But I've not seen an Epic PrC that really captures the feel of those characters, so I started designing such class, based on features from several other classes. I don't know how others feel but I myself think that class creators too often leap to "Prestige Class!" when a base class would be more appropriate. Additionally, I've never seen the point of epic PrCs at all. So it might help us to know what exactly you're trying to accomplish with your epic prestige class.
Kamin_Majere 12-10-07, 09:30 AM	Whats wrong with Eldritch knight? You get Caster level increases every level and bonus feats. Its pretty good if you've already designed a pre epic gish as it removes the need to go back to wizard to qualify for the epic class. Honestly taking a 50th level charater building a ToB/wizard gish with Eldritch Knight will easily give you epic spells and 9th level manuvers/stances. You should be as Gish"ey" as you want to be.
BillTheManiac 12-10-07, 12:40 PM	If you have any cool abilities, you can probably just make them epic feats.
Tequila_Sunrise 12-10-07, 03:07 PM	Whats wrong with Eldritch knight? You get Caster level increases every level and bonus feats. Its pretty good if you've already designed a pre epic gish as it removes the need to go back to wizard to qualify for the epic class. Honestly taking a 50th level charater building a ToB/wizard gish with Eldritch Knight will easily give you epic spells and 9th level manuvers/stances. You should be as Gish"ey" as you want to be. How would a EK get 9th level maneuvers--unless you mean taking 20 levels of a ToB class and then going EK?
archerpwr 12-10-07, 03:35 PM	If you have any cool abilities, you can probably just make them epic feats. +1
bluetooth 12-11-07, 10:00 PM	Your PrC doesn't look bad, but I think it's unnecessary. Of course it depends largely on your build, but since a properly built gish has access to epic spellcasting, I'd suggest focusing on a spellcasting class (bear with me on this). You won't get the HD that you would, but since saves and EAP are the same for everyone hp are your only issue, and there's a good chance you can make an epic spell that will help you deal with that somehow. If you have a really nice (read: crazy) DM, take the elven high mage and make some personal mythals. Of course if you're making personal mythals it's either a single player game or it soon will be. (I mostly mention it for humor value, though I think it could be appropriate it some single player games)