Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JobieJones 11-28-07, 11:04 AM	What do you guys think of Epic Armor Class? Whats the Highest you can get by lvl 30? It'd be great to see all the different Ideas.
Tequila_Sunrise 11-28-07, 02:17 PM	AC is one of the dumbest things at epic levels. Thanks to items with wierd bonuses (insight, profane, luck, etc...) and the fact that bracers of armor become better than actually wearing armor, AC can get stupidly high...and not even for any good reason.
Tshern 11-28-07, 03:02 PM	Figuring that it isn't overwhelmingly difficult to hit a three-digit number pre-epic, your AC can indeed be high. Did I say high? I meant HIGH.
Bloodsoul 11-28-07, 03:12 PM	"My Armor Class is 250!!" "I just rolled a 20." "Oh, bugger..."
JobieJones 11-28-07, 03:57 PM	Either way, AC is still a big deal. Frenzieds, Fighters, and any other beater lose all effectiveness if they can't hit you. Yeah, so there are casters, there's nothing you can do about that. Lots of the monsters we fight in Epic stuff Hits high. Just looking for solutions.
LordBOB777 11-28-07, 06:16 PM	My HIGHLY unoptimized fighter/paladin/Paragon (ECL 30) had an AC of 97 i believe, though this also included 1 from Dodge and 1 from Haste.
Sagetim 11-28-07, 06:58 PM	Either way, AC is still a big deal. Frenzieds, Fighters, and any other beater lose all effectiveness if they can't hit you. Yeah, so there are casters, there's nothing you can do about that. Lots of the monsters we fight in Epic stuff Hits high. Just looking for solutions. actually I can think of a pre epic build that can hit about 50% of the time regardless of ac. A rapier weapon master with a keen rapier and improved crit (rapier) they have a threat range of 10-20. Thus, 'I rolled a 10' so? 'critical threat' 'oh bollocks'. they may never get a crit on you, but they will be hitting.
Lord_of_Vain 11-28-07, 07:06 PM	What are the things that give you the most AC then, besides enchanted armor and dex, and of course the bracers.
Novabomb 11-28-07, 08:09 PM	actually I can think of a pre epic build that can hit about 50% of the time regardless of ac. A rapier weapon master with a keen rapier and improved crit (rapier) they have a threat range of 10-20. Thus, 'I rolled a 10' so? 'critical threat' 'oh bollocks'. they may never get a crit on you, but they will be hitting. What are you talking about? You dont automatically hit on critical threats, only on the roll of nat 20.
Tshern 11-28-07, 08:44 PM	Not to mention that Keen enchantment and Improved critical don't stack.
runestar 11-29-07, 03:15 AM	Looking at the attack values of creatures like the elder titan, I am not sure if AC even matters.:P
dragon221284 11-29-07, 03:43 AM	Looking at the attack values of creatures like the elder titan, I am not sure if AC even matters.:P Two words: Power Attack :P
JobieJones 11-29-07, 10:24 AM	A +87 isn't too hard to handle. I'm aiming to be able to fight things with a +100 to hit and still make them roll 20's to hit. Someone said 3-digit ACs are easy, but I haven't seem a build yet. Any Body?
Tshern 11-29-07, 11:27 AM	Does it matter what sort of a build it is? I can provide something with an AC like that.
Tshern 11-29-07, 11:54 AM	Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Paragnostic Apostle 5/Contemplative 15/Ordained Champion 5 Make sure you've got Hero and Spell domains. Knowledge and Inquisition are compulsory as is War. That leaves you for domains to play with. If you wish, change all your domain powers to Fighter bonus feats (can't do that with War domain, though). Also, take spontaneous domain casting for Spell domain, Anyspells are too good to pass. Remember normal DMM (persistent) cheese. Shapechange into a Pit Fiend and proceed to cast Giant size. Persist and use a Metamagic Rod to make them last two whole days. Now you've got +32 natural armor and +8 from dexterity. Add in Divine agility to get +10 to dex, making it 32 natural and 13 from dex. Cast Greater Luminous armor and use Paragnostic Apostle's Mind over Matter, so it gives you +10 armor bonus and -4 to enemy attacks. Totalling +55 to AC. Let's say your wisdom is around 38. Use Limited Wish (Spell domain) to duplicate and persist Owl's insight. Your caster level should be something like 28 and +4 from Beads of Karma. That's +16 to your wisdom making your score 54 to a modifier of 27. With Monk's belt that is +28 to AC. We are now at 10+32+13+10+28=93 and we are just getting started here. Get yourself a +5 animated heavy shield. You just got three-digit numbers. Use Anyspell to duplicate Scintillating scales to turn your natural armor bonus to deflection bonus and then cast Barkskin for another five. You could do that without Scintillating scales by using Shield of Faith, but then your touch AC would be smaller. Your charisma modifier would at that point be, what, 12? Throw in Divine shield to get 117. Haste from Celerity domain and Improved blink. 118 and 50% miss chance at all times. Beeing flat-footed sucks, so just persist Foresight. That's 120 and 50% miss chance. I could probably do better if I hand my books handy. So here's a breakdown: 10+32(deflection)+13(dexterity)+10(Great er luminous armor)+28(monk's belt)+7(shield)+5(Barkskin)+12(Divine shield)+1(Haste)+2(Foresight)=120 and 50% miss chance from Greater blink.
Aleolus 11-29-07, 12:18 PM	Well, it's probably not the highest AC, but I have a character who was the most difficult to damage. Level 21, 16 monk, 5 Initiate of Pistis Sophia, who had an AC of about 30. I don't remember all of his stuff, but I do remember that he had a Starmantle Cloak, which makes it so that he's invulnerable to damage from nonmagical weapons, and any nonmagical weapon or missile that strikes him is turned harmlessly into light. Magical weapon or missiles are not destroyed like that, but he's allowed a Reflex save, DC 15, for half damage. He also had an Amulet of Retribution, so whenever he is struck by a non-reach melee weapon or natural weapon, the damage is evenly split between him and his attacker. So, every time he's attacked, if it's not considered a magical attack, it does nothing, even if it hits his AC, and if it's considered a magical weapon, he gets a DC 15 Reflex save for half damage. Thanks to Improved Evasion, whenever he gets a Reflex save for half, he takes no damage on a successful save, and half on a failed save, and if he does fail his save (if it's a melee attack), then the damage he does take is split evenly between him and his attacker. Plus he also had a Monks Belt, so he had an effective Monk level of 26.
Tshern 11-29-07, 12:21 PM	Yeah, Starmantle cloak is broken, but Retributive Amulet was nerfed in MIC. 9000gp, works 3 times a day.
Aleolus 11-29-07, 12:27 PM	Awwww! I liked the version in Complete Divine! But even with the limit, that monk is still almost impossible to hit. DC 15 Reflex save at level 21 is a piece of cake.
larry_the_titan 11-29-07, 01:59 PM	Well I can get a monk 32 to a AC 93 without feats just standard magical items as long as the character roll dex 18 wis 18 and got a bonus to dex mod from his race. Considering what you can get from epic and the fact that there are no limit to bonuses or level any number could be reached by anyone. Invincibilty isn't that hard in epic just get Soulfire armor (BoED), a ring of universal energy immunity(Epic) and DR+Fast healing greater the a target creature can do to you in a round. Who needs high AC.
Lord_of_Vain 11-29-07, 02:19 PM	Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Paragnostic Apostle 5/Contemplative 15/Ordained Champion 5 Make sure you've got Hero and Spell domains. Knowledge and Inquisition are compulsory as is War. That leaves you for domains to play with. If you wish, change all your domain powers to Fighter bonus feats (can't do that with War domain, though). Also, take spontaneous domain casting for Spell domain, Anyspells are too good to pass. Remember normal DMM (persistent) cheese. Shapechange into a Pit Fiend and proceed to cast Giant size. Persist and use a Metamagic Rod to make them last two whole days. Now you've got +32 natural armor and +8 from dexterity. Add in Divine agility to get +10 to dex, making it 32 natural and 13 from dex. Cast Greater Luminous armor and use Paragnostic Apostle's Mind over Matter, so it gives you +10 armor bonus and -4 to enemy attacks. Totalling +55 to AC. Let's say your wisdom is around 38. Use Limited Wish (Spell domain) to duplicate and persist Owl's insight. Your caster level should be something like 28 and +4 from Beads of Karma. That's +16 to your wisdom making your score 54 to a modifier of 27. With Monk's belt that is +28 to AC. We are now at 10+32+13+10+28=93 and we are just getting started here. Get yourself a +5 animated heavy shield. You just got three-digit numbers. Use Anyspell to duplicate Scintillating scales to turn your natural armor bonus to deflection bonus and then cast Barkskin for another five. You could do that without Scintillating scales by using Shield of Faith, but then your touch AC would be smaller. Your charisma modifier would at that point be, what, 12? Throw in Divine shield to get 117. Haste from Celerity domain and Improved blink. 118 and 50% miss chance at all times. Beeing flat-footed sucks, so just persist Foresight. That's 120 and 50% miss chance. I could probably do better if I hand my books handy. So here's a breakdown: 10+32(deflection)+13(dexterity)+10(Great er luminous armor)+28(monk's belt)+7(shield)+5(Barkskin)+12(Divine shield)+1(Haste)+2(Foresight)=120 and 50% miss chance from Greater blink. What book is the monk's belt from?
SokenzanMarauder 11-29-07, 02:44 PM	What book is the monk's belt from? Dungeon Master's Guide. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks I hate that item.
Lord_of_Vain 11-29-07, 02:47 PM	Thanks man. Ah I saw it right before I looked at your post, apparently it's listed on srd under Belt, Monks.
SokenzanMarauder 11-29-07, 02:48 PM	Yup. :D
Aleolus 11-29-07, 03:36 PM	Dungeon Master's Guide. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks I hate that item. How come? All they do is give +5 effective Monk levels. All that does is increase your unarmed damage, move speed and AC. That's not much.
SokenzanMarauder 11-29-07, 03:42 PM	How come? All they do is give +5 effective Monk levels. All that does is increase your unarmed damage, move speed and AC. That's not much.It's not so much the stats that bug me. It's just a case of 'why bother taking monk levels if I can just buy a belt' that bothers me. Plus when I first started playing 3.5 my DM kinda sucked and let a player get away with more than he should have 'cause he had that belt (the DM essential said it let him be a monk equal to his level when he wore it). It's basically the same reason I can't stand Dwarves anymore (the same player ruined them for me too).
Aleolus 11-29-07, 03:54 PM	...Now there's something you don't see everyday. A dwarf monk. I should write up one of those, see how well they do.
larry_the_titan 11-29-07, 08:48 PM	It's not so much the stats that bug me. It's just a case of 'why bother taking monk levels if I can just buy a belt' that bothers me. Plus when I first started playing 3.5 my DM kinda sucked and let a player get away with more than he should have 'cause he had that belt (the DM essential said it let him be a monk equal to his level when he wore it). It's basically the same reason I can't stand Dwarves anymore (the same player ruined them for me too). You shouldn't hate the item hate your old gaming buddy and the idiot DM he played with. Free Gestalt for a magic item is just stupid.
JobieJones 11-29-07, 08:48 PM	Haha, That build is pretty sweet. Shapechange into the pit fiend is a good idea. My Highest AC Build is a Wild Shape-based character. I've got to get it posted on the Epic Duals soon, but it's got a base of 109, but adding in Improved Combat Expertise, I hit 125. Im excited, haha, but any other advantages are great.
Tshern 11-29-07, 09:01 PM	Maybe we will face each other then! I am planning on putting one of my creations to test his mettle at Epic Duels too. No effin' way I am hitting that AC though :D
SokenzanMarauder 11-29-07, 09:07 PM	You shouldn't hate the item hate your old gaming buddy and the idiot DM he played with. Free Gestalt for a magic item is just stupid.I take prefer my method; hate the item, my old gaming buddy (he's the local Steve), and still game with the 'idiot DM.' Though I agree, free gestalt was rather thick of him.
larry_the_titan 11-29-07, 09:31 PM	I take prefer my method; hate the item, my old gaming buddy (he's the local Steve), and still game with the 'idiot DM.' Though I agree, free gestalt was rather thick of him. Man I feel sorry for you. It can be no worse then when my brother once tried to run a game and didn't know what ECL was. Thought Dragonkin made ok 3rd level characters. When I finally got it through his head that hit dice increased the ECL he just took them off the character but left the BAB and base saves and gave it monk levels on top of that. Good luck with your future gaming.
SokenzanMarauder 11-29-07, 10:44 PM	Man I feel sorry for you. It can be no worse then when my brother once tried to run a game and didn't know what ECL was. Thought Dragonkin made ok 3rd level characters. When I finally got it through his head that hit dice increased the ECL he just took them off the character but left the BAB and base saves and gave it monk levels on top of that. Good luck with your future gaming.Wow. I thought I had it bad. My thoughts go out to you and your characters! :D Good luck to you as well (luckily I've got a group of people with semi-functional brains to play with for the time being)!
Omen_of_Peace 11-30-07, 06:34 PM	The Monk bonus doesn't work with an Animated Shield. The trick (for non-persistifiers) is to stack tons of different bonuses to AC : insight, luck, sacred (see the DMG guidelines).
mittenninja 12-01-07, 09:43 AM	http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-439367#91;/url&origin= a link to the current record for highest AC in 20 lvls, which is currently 302. If they can pull that off with pre-epic imagine what you can do with epic.
Tshern 12-01-07, 11:13 AM	Then you just have to cast Shield.
BillTheManiac 12-01-07, 01:06 PM	Then you just have to cast Shield. shield bonii don't stack.
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 02:01 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-439367#91;/url&origin= a link to the current record for highest AC in 20 lvls, which is currently 302. If they can pull that off with pre-epic imagine what you can do with epic. I'm seeing a planetar's wisdom referenced, which makes me think some polymorph shenanigans were going on that are no longer allowed, and a race or class I don't recognize called a gloura. Is there a record AC for a race from the PHB?
Tshern 12-01-07, 02:49 PM	shield bonii don't stack. I meant you could replace Animated shield with the spell.
mittenninja 12-01-07, 04:37 PM	I'm seeing a planetar's wisdom referenced, which makes me think some polymorph shenanigans were going on that are no longer allowed, and a race or class I don't recognize called a gloura. Is there a record AC for a race from the PHB? Even if everything there isn't currently legal there is a bunch there that is. It's a good place to start when trying to find ways to up your AC.
Kain_Darkwind 12-01-07, 04:53 PM	Even if everything there isn't currently legal there is a bunch there that is. It's a good place to start when trying to find ways to up your AC. Ah, you misunderstand. I don't care much whether or not they used 'legal' methods, I was wondering what the highest AC using core only material was. Using a...Gloura isn't particularly relevant to my games.
Tshern 12-01-07, 07:51 PM	Ah, you misunderstand. I don't care much whether or not they used 'legal' methods, I was wondering what the highest AC using core only material was. Using a...Gloura isn't particularly relevant to my games. You are probably best of with a Cleric or Druid. Monk's belt+Bracers of Armor+Shapechange nets you a decent start.
Thor_Dog_of_Thunder 12-01-07, 08:06 PM	actually I can think of a pre epic build that can hit about 50% of the time regardless of ac. A rapier weapon master with a keen rapier and improved crit (rapier) they have a threat range of 10-20. Thus, 'I rolled a 10' so? 'critical threat' 'oh bollocks'. they may never get a crit on you, but they will be hitting. You do understand that you must HIT before you can threaten a crit right? If the attack does not hit to begin with it does not matter if you threaten a crit on a 2-20
mittenninja 12-01-07, 09:23 PM	Ah, you misunderstand. I don't care much whether or not they used 'legal' methods, I was wondering what the highest AC using core only material was. Using a...Gloura isn't particularly relevant to my games. Ah didn't catch the Core only thing. My bad.
Aleolus 12-02-07, 12:40 AM	You do understand that you must HIT before you can threaten a crit right? If the attack does not hit to begin with it does not matter if you threaten a crit on a 2-20 Nope. Read one of the sidebars in the DMG, if you threaten a Critical, you automatically hit, regardless of their AC. Which is apparently why Wizards made it so that Imp. Crit, Keen, and other qualities that improve your Crit range almost never stack, so the best you could get would be a rapier or a falchion (normally threaten on a 18-20) to threaten on a 15-20. Which is still damn good.
Kain_Darkwind 12-02-07, 12:52 AM	Nope. Read one of the sidebars in the DMG, if you threaten a Critical, you automatically hit, regardless of their AC. Which is apparently why Wizards made it so that Imp. Crit, Keen, and other qualities that improve your Crit range almost never stack, so the best you could get would be a rapier or a falchion (normally threaten on a 18-20) to threaten on a 15-20. Which is still damn good. You are completely wrong. If you could possibly list the page number of the DMG that one should look on, I'd be glad to check it out for you. A natural 20 is the only auto-hit. A critical threat doesn't even threaten a critical if you missed the opponent's AC to begin with. (Unless a natural 20, of course) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits
Omen_of_Peace 12-02-07, 02:25 AM	Nope. Read one of the sidebars in the DMG, if you threaten a Critical, you automatically hit, regardless of their AC. Which is apparently why Wizards made it so that Imp. Crit, Keen, and other qualities that improve your Crit range almost never stack, so the best you could get would be a rapier or a falchion (normally threaten on a 18-20) to threaten on a 15-20. Which is still damn good. Nope. Let me direct you towards the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits). edit: nevermind, unrefreshed tab...
setekh 12-02-07, 01:35 PM	Man I feel sorry for you. It can be no worse then when my brother once tried to run a game and didn't know what ECL was. Thought Dragonkin made ok 3rd level characters. When I finally got it through his head that hit dice increased the ECL he just took them off the character but left the BAB and base saves and gave it monk levels on top of that. Good luck with your future gaming. Yeah, I knew a guy like that. I had fun abusing Dragonkin and Demons I can tell ya :P
CrimsonDeath 12-03-07, 06:17 AM	I know a guy who let one of his players be a Stone Golem Monk. With no LA. I think he did at least count racial HD against the character's level.
evangelion1010 12-03-07, 12:34 PM	Lets see... problems and critiques not taken care of... 1. Any DM that allows a starmantle cloak as written in game is an idiot. Anyone which allows evasion to qualify is even stupider. Having said that, taking a dip into cleric for the pride? domain allows you to reroll all rolls of 1 on saving throws. Taking damage 1/400 of the time is quite good, better than an AC of 400. 2. Whoever posted somehow getting a +16 enchantment bonus to wisdom from owls wisdom needs to either read up on the rules, or explain to me why i've never seen a way to enhance that spell past +4. 3. Siren's grace, from spell compendium (not really core...) is nifty. +4 enchantment to cha, wisdom and deflection bonus to AC = charisma, among other abilities. A constant use item is 90k by DMG rules. For core Epic, look to be at least Monk 1 (or use a belt, if the DM rules you get bonuses of a level 5 monk without any monk levels). Use combat expertise/improved combat expertise. Ranks in tumble, 2 defending weapons, an epic spell to boost wisdom, nifty magic items (going for even distributions of everything except 'armor' bonuses, since armor bonuses are bonus^2 *1000 vs bonus ^2 * 2000.) Deflection, insight and dodge are the preferred bonuses as they work against touch attacks. Beyond that if they can't see you, they can't target you (rogue) and getting an item or using a spell that gives a 20 or 50% miss chance is always nice, since not everyone/thing has truesight.
larry_the_titan 12-03-07, 01:51 PM	2. Whoever posted somehow getting a +16 enchantment bonus to wisdom from owls wisdom needs to either read up on the rules, or explain to me why i've never seen a way to enhance that spell past +4. 3. Siren's grace, from spell compendium (not really core...) is nifty. +4 enchantment to cha, wisdom and deflection bonus to AC = charisma, among other abilities. A constant use item is 90k by DMG rules. #2 is possible but you have to know more about the game then just core. I currently don't have my books on hand but when I get home I will find the ways to get all of this with in the rules. #2 can be done by and Artificer tinkering with magic items. Namely they have a spell that changes the bonus type from a magical item form something like Enchantment to something Competence or Insight. There is also a Druid Spell that Gives a larger and Larger Wisdom bonus as your Caster Level Gets higher. Druids also have several other massive Stat buffs from the Bite of chain of spells. There is also a feat that increase the bonus you give from Stat mod Spells, Increasing it by 2. #3 Siren's grace spell I will be looking up when I get home and I will be building something around that spell for my next D&D campaign if it doesn't fit into my current Build.
Tshern 12-03-07, 03:05 PM	Evangelion: It's Owl's insight, which gives insight bonus. Two different spells.
Pechvarry 12-03-07, 03:46 PM	Signs that Monk's Belt might be broken in Epic: Every single PC has one.
evangelion1010 12-03-07, 03:48 PM	Ah yes. 1/2 caster level to wisdom bonus. If anyone could find the spell or ability which changes enchantment to insight or another not commonly found type, it'd be helpful to me (and this build, if non-core)
PerennialRook 12-03-07, 07:57 PM	actually I can think of a pre epic build that can hit about 50% of the time regardless of ac. A rapier weapon master with a keen rapier and improved crit (rapier) they have a threat range of 10-20. Thus, 'I rolled a 10' so? 'critical threat' 'oh bollocks'. they may never get a crit on you, but they will be hitting. Unfortunately, you only automatically hit on a natural 20, not matter what your critical threat range is. So if you roll a 10 and wouldn't hit otherwise, your critical threat is effectively wasted. Also, keen and improved critical do not stack, IIRC.
NoldorForce 12-04-07, 02:29 AM	Ah yes. 1/2 caster level to wisdom bonus. If anyone could find the spell or ability which changes enchantment to insight or another not commonly found type, it'd be helpful to me (and this build, if non-core)Item Alteration. It's a 4th-level artificer (ECS) infusion, and staggeringly useful. It changes the bonus to whatever (presumably applicable) type you want except sacred or profane.
larry_the_titan 12-04-07, 08:44 PM	You got to love all the stuff artificers gained from Spell compendium. Just take a few of the Druids buff spells, Etched Schema, Metamagic spell completion, and Persistence feat. I think a casting of Owls Insight, Bite of Werebear and Siren's grace. Yes I know to get the Spell persisted is one hell of a UMD check but heck an Artificer could grant himself a Competence bonus and stack up enough mods to make any check ever needed.
NoldorForce 12-05-07, 02:07 AM	...Or a Staff of Miracle, Metamagic Item, Wand Surge, and Unfettered Heroism. (Cast it on yourself from a schema, then make a Persistent copy from the staff.) Very cheesy, and likely as all hell to get a banhammer. Limiting yourself will lessen the blow and the chance of it falling in the first place. Note: It's actually Sirine's Grace, not Siren's Grace.
Nizo 12-06-07, 09:26 PM	If you want legal and pro you can go with on of the ability mods to ac many times. Like taking deepwarden 2, fist of the forest 1, and forsaken (3.0 and you can't use magic items) for con to ac 3 times! That and vow of poverty gave my 7th level the record for most ac that early of level (like 45 unbuffed and no items except my trusty basic club) and if your dm lets you, at 8th level dip into monk for wis too. There is also the many ways to make cha to ac stack, IIRC it can stack five times. If only I knew all 5 ways.
evangelion1010 12-07-07, 06:21 PM	Deepwarden and fist of the forest are in races of stone and complete champion. Deepwarden has con replace dex, so it's not that helpful unless you're a dwarven fighter (or another low dex dwarf character). If you fully optimized and didn't care about how illogical your character was, i'm sure you could get Charisma x4 to AC, Con x1, Dex x1, Wis x1, consistently. Get yourself a artificer cohort and have him enhance charisma, since for every 2 points you get 4 points to AC. It should be fairly trivial to get charisma up to 60 by level 40, allowing you to have an AC in the mid 100's easily. Keep in mind that for most cases an AC of 200 is no better than an AC of 150 - most enemies need a natural 20 to hit you (and if you're hitable only on a 20, they have incentive to powerattack as much as they can) Of course having a touch AC that high means that spells won't affect you too easily either. Drop in 3 levels of hexblade and non-touch, non-savable spells are about all you should have to worry about. (of course you should have multiclassed so much your pre-epic base saves should be 16+....) Of course how you're going to actually do damage or hit anything yourself is up to you (though i suggest the slippers of battledancing for a start, DMG II) As for getting charisma to AC... Acetic Mage - Sorc/monk, charisma replaces wisdom for monk AC Arcane Duelist 2 (web) - Charisma to AC Mystic Wanderer 2 (MoF 3.0) - Charisma to AC (Sacred/Profane) Sirien's Grace, various creatures, ghost template - Charisma to AC (Deflection) Those are all I know. You can get wisdom to AC if you pick up the saint template (which is very good for +2 LA)
NoldorForce 12-07-07, 08:43 PM	Note: It's actually Sirine's Grace, not Siren's Grace.Ahem. :)
BillTheManiac 12-08-07, 01:25 PM	If you're going to go so cheesy as to get Cha*4+Dex+Wis+Con, you might as well go for the Beast, gaining +infinity or so to Con.
Vaevictis Asmadi 12-09-07, 03:51 AM	My highest AC wasn't too terribly high in the grand scheme.. Pretty good though for a 21st fighter/dwarven defender with +5 mithral full plate (+13), +3 dex, +5 tower shield (+9), ring of protection +8, periapt of natural armor +9, dwarven defender prestige +4, combat expertise (always +5), and +5 defending dwarven waraxe which my DM let stack with the ring deflection mod. For 21st level a 50-56 AC is pretty beast, but consequently I had a +4 will save total and my flat-footed was ****.
Passivearmada 12-09-07, 01:30 PM	Awwww! I liked the version in Complete Divine! But even with the limit, that monk is still almost impossible to hit. DC 15 Reflex save at level 21 is a piece of cake. Well cake can clog your arteries, so I'd say, "DC 15 Reflex save at level 21 is like your brain sending neural messages to your muscles faster than the speed of light." And if you roll a 1 on a save, is it and auto-failure? ANd with a 20, auto-success?
Passivearmada 12-09-07, 01:32 PM	My highest AC wasn't too terribly high in the grand scheme.. Pretty good though for a 21st fighter/dwarven defender with +5 mithral full plate (+13), +3 dex, +5 tower shield (+9), ring of protection +8, periapt of natural armor +9, dwarven defender prestige +4, combat expertise (always +5), and +5 defending dwarven waraxe which my DM let stack with the ring deflection mod. For 21st level a 50-56 AC is pretty beast, but consequently I had a +4 will save total and my flat-footed was ****. I think you mean Touch AC.
Kord's Boon 12-09-07, 08:45 PM	If I remember correctly the elaborate parry class feature straight form the DMG duelist class can begin to net you some very high bonuses for fighting defensively as you enter epic level.