Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nilbog 10-20-07, 12:04 AM	Converting some of Tolkien's Silmarillion characters into D&D: Tolkien's elves are divided into two main groupings. Moriquendi (those elves which have never seen Valinor) are equivalent to the ordinary wood elf in the Player's Handbook. The Elves that have seen Valinor are Calaquendi, and they possess special abilities: Calaquendi Traits: Light Elves (Calaquendi) possess the following traits in addition to all the traits of ordinary elves: * Longevity: Light Elves reach middle age at 2,500 years of age, old age at 5,000 years, venerable age at 7,500 years, and have no maximum age. Thus, they do not die of old age. * Darkvision 60 ft. * Spell resistance equal to 2 X HD (maximum 25). * Speak with animals and pass without trace as spell-like abilities, each 1/day. Caster level 2nd or character level, whichever is higher. Fingolfin: Light Elf male paladin 35; AL LG; HD 35d10+140; hp 332; Init +6; Spd 30 ft.; AC 35 (+2 natural, +2 Dex, +11 +7 chain shirt, +6 +5 small shield, +4 ring of protection), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +35/+46; Attack Ringil +51 melee (1d8+15/17-20); Full Attack Ringil +51/+46/+41/+36 melee (1d8+15/17-20); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA spells, paladin abilities; SQ darkvision 120 ft., elf traits, Light Elf traits, spell resistance 25; SV Fort +23, Ref +14, Will +14; Str 29 (23 without belt), Dex 16, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 20 (16 without cloak). Skills: Craft (armorsmithing, weaponsmithing) +13, Handle Animal +24, Ride (horse) +23, Sense Motive +22. Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack. Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Dire Charge, Epic Prowess. Possessions: Ringil, a +6 bane (evil outsiders) keen longsword; +7 chain shirt; +5 small shield, cloak of charisma +4, belt of strength +6. Feanor: Light Elf male rogue 10/sorcerer 25; AL CN (formerly CG); HD 10d6+25d4+175; hp 272; Init +6; Spd 30 ft.; AC 33 (+6 Dex, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +35/+46; Attack +6 short sword +50 melee (1d6+14/19-20); Full Attack +6 short sword +50/+45/+40/+35 melee (1d6+14/19-20); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA spells, sneak attack +5d6; SQ darkvision 60 ft., DR 3/-, Light Elf traits, rogue abilities, spell resistance 25; SV Fort +17, Ref +19, Will +22; Str 27 (17 without belt), Dex 16, Con 21, Int 25, Wis 19, Cha 24 (18 without cloak and Silmarils). Skills: Appraise +45, Bluff +45, Diplomacy +45, Craft (alchemy, armorsmithing, weaponsmithing) +49, Knowledge (arcana, nature) +45, Perform (oratory) +45, Ride (horse) +46, Sense Motive +42, Spot +42. Feats: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Dodge, Leadership, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mobility, Spring Attack. Epic Feats: Craft Epic Wondrous Item, Damage Reduction, Epic Leadership, Legendary Commander, Polyglot. Possessions: +6 short sword; +6 chain shirt; +6 small shield; belt of epic strength +10; Silmarils (3). Silmaril (Minor Artifact): Gems of incredible beauty, the Silmarils were made by Feanor and contain the unsullied Light of Valinor. Only 3 were made. They have several magical powers. First, they cast light as a daylight spell, constantly. Secondly, any possessor of a Silmaril gains a +2 sacred bonus to Charisma as long as the item is in his possession. Finally, the Silmarils were painful to evil creatures. If a creature of evil alignment touched a Silmaril, it would be affected as if by searing light in the first round; afterwards it would suffer no further damage, but the touch of the jewel would still be burningly painful. This effect could also be used offensively; the possessor of a Silmaril could use it once per day to turn undead as a 20th-level cleric (use the user's Charisma to resolve the turning attempt). What do you think?
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-20-07, 12:10 AM	Good, seemingly correct stats. I just have to wonder, are the high stats necessary? Remember the article "Gandalf was a 5th-level Magic User". I haven't read the Simmillarion, so were these guys cutting down those angel-like beings or something?
BillTheManiac 10-20-07, 08:09 AM	Rogue 10/Sorcerer 15? Get that man a prestige class! What kind of stuff does that character do? Arcane trickster-y? Maybe a modified daggerspell mage, or any gishy thing with Swashbuckler as base?
BigGus 10-20-07, 10:09 AM	Good, seemingly correct stats. I just have to wonder, are the high stats necessary? Remember the article "Gandalf was a 5th-level Magic User". I haven't read the Simmillarion, so were these guys cutting down those angel-like beings or something? Fingolfin fought an extended duel with Morgoth, Sauron's master, wounding him several times before finally being killed. Morgoth was Tolkien's Satan; in the beginning, he was the most powerful being ever created by Illuvatar (Tolkien's God Almighty), although he subsequently lost some of his power. Feanor was the greatest-ever Noldor elf. As well as being the foremost craftsman (it's stated that the Palantirs, which Feanor also created, were beyond even Sauron's art to make), he was one of, if not the, strongest, toughest, most intelligent and charismatic elves ever. He carried on a battle alone with several Balrogs for an extended period, before finally dying of his wounds. If the article I read was the same one you did (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d%26d-calibrating.html), it argued that Aragorn was a 5th-level character, and that Gandalf was no more than 10th level, probably less. While I think he makes a good point that Aragorn doesn't need to be 20th level, I'm very dubious about his conclusion that he's only 5th level; I'd say that his willpower and endurance, if nothing else, are clearly meant to exceed any historical human. But more to the point, Gandalf is clearly higher than 10th level; he's an angel/ lesser deity in human form, and the only time he uses his full powers is in the battle against the Balrog. In all cases, he uses the absolute minimum power necessary to accomplish his goals, instead using his intelligence and wisdom to come up with cunning plans. It's explicitly stated that his mission is to inspire the free peoples of Middle-earth to fight evil, not to fight it for them. I'd conclude from this that Gandalf is at least near 20th level, probably above it; the powers that he's seen using in the books are only a small fraction of what he can actually do. Based on this, perhaps the levels for Fingolfin and Feanor are a little too high, but not that much, I'd say. One suggestion I'd have is with the Silmarils. I think only good characters can touch them without pain, neutral characters suffer pain but no damage, and evil characters continue to take damage from them every round; either that or the damage they suffer from them can't be healed by any means as long as they stay in contact with them. Check out the part about Carcharoth's innard's being "wellnigh all consumed as with a fire" after he swallowed the Silmaril. Carcharoth was supposed to be the most powerful wolf that ever was, hand-reared by Morgoth himself, and that sounds like more than 5d8 damage to me. Also, not sure why Feanor should have rogue levels. I'd always seen him as having mostly mage levels, with maybe a few fighter.
Nilbog 10-20-07, 06:16 PM	Just so you know what I'm basing this on, here's where I'd put various characters and critters (I'm probably not statting all of them). The Ainur 6-10 divine ranks, 35-40 class levels: Aratar (the Eight greatest Valar, plus Melkor before he is diminished) 1-5 divine ranks, 30-35 class levels: lesser Valar 0 divine ranks, 30-35 class levels: Maiar 0 divine ranks, 35th level Blackguard: Morgoth (diminished state, after he is bound to one form) CR 43: Ungoliant 35th level: Feanor, Fingolfin, Turin Turambar (Ainu-form) 33rd level: Luthien Tinuviel 32nd level: Earendil, Turin Turambar (Mortal form) 26th level: Maedhros 25th level: Maglor, Finrod Felagund In Lord of The Rings: 16th level: Aragorn 13th level: Faramir CR 8: Shelob 7th level: Frodo, Sam (at end of RotK) 5th level: Boromir CR 5 (5th level): Shagrat, Gorbag (Orc chieftains) CR 4: Barrow-wight 1st level: Frodo, Sam (at beginning of FotR)
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-20-07, 07:06 PM	If Fingolfin had an extended duel with several Balrogs (Which pretty much Balors to the point), then maybe 35th level is correct for him. I've always imagined Gandalf as a Solar, and the rest of the Maiar as advanced ones (But not Large). Surprisingly, it works out rather well, now that I see it.
Nilbog 10-20-07, 07:26 PM	<snip> One suggestion I'd have is with the Silmarils. I think only good characters can touch them without pain, neutral characters suffer pain but no damage, and evil characters continue to take damage from them every round; either that or the damage they suffer from them can't be healed by any means as long as they stay in contact with them. Check out the part about Carcharoth's innard's being "wellnigh all consumed as with a fire" after he swallowed the Silmaril. Carcharoth was supposed to be the most powerful wolf that ever was, hand-reared by Morgoth himself, and that sounds like more than 5d8 damage to me. Also, not sure why Feanor should have rogue levels. I'd always seen him as having mostly mage levels, with maybe a few fighter. Makes sense, but if they took damage each round, Carcharoth would have been dead - he carried it for days. I figured it couldn't be too much damage, mostly just pain, because Carcharoth's fighting ability wasn't impaired in any way. If he'd had only a few hit points left, he couldn't have held out nearly as long against Huan and those heroes. Feanor has rogue levels for the skill points. He's a craftsman with magical abilities, and I think rogue/sorcerer fits best of the PC classes.
Nilbog 10-20-07, 07:31 PM	What should I do with Turin Turambar? He's prophesied to slay Morgoth, which would put him up in the 45th-50th level range, and he and Nienor became Ainur or something similar after death. Maybe stat him with pre- and post-death versions? Also, if Turin really is that powerful, then Glaurung is going to have to be absurdly deadly to be a worthy foe for him.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-20-07, 08:48 PM	Well, Glaurung is just a really, really old and really advanced Great Wyrm Red. As for Hurin, I recall that he killed himself before he could do anything to Morgoth. Even if he does, he doesn't necessarily need to be high level; Morgoth may be weakened somehow, and Hurin may have access to artifacts. High level for sure, maybe in the high 30s; at about the level of Finwe and Fingolfin. EDIT: Shoot, you said Turin. Same advice for the most part.
Nilbog 10-20-07, 09:57 PM	Glaurung can't fly, so I think he's something very different from an ordinary D&D dragon. Also, what about the whole "becoming Valar after death" thing for Turin? I seem to recall some quote about "dwelt as shining Valar among the blessed ones" or something ... Well, anyway: Luthien Tinuviel: Light Elf female cleric 11/bard 22; AL CG; HD 11d8+22d6+86; hp 212; Init +4; Spd 30 ft.; AC 30 (+5 Dex, +9 +7 leather armor of greater silent moves, +6 +5 small shield), touch 15, flat-footed 25; Base Attack/Grapple +24/+25; Attack +7 short sword +32 melee (1d6+8/19-20); Full Attack +7 short sword +32/+27/+22/+17 melee (1d6+8/19-20); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA bardic music, spells, turn undead; SQ darkvision 60 ft., Light Elf traits, bard abilities, spell resistance 25; SV Fort +16, Ref +21, Will +22; Str 11, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 38 (28 without cloak). Skills: Bluff +50, Diplomacy +50, Perform (singing) +50, Spot +38. Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Mobility, Persuasive Epic Feats: Deafening Song, Epic Toughness, Inspire Excellence, Music of the Gods, Reactive Countersong Possessions: +7 short sword; +7 leather armor of greater silent moves; +6 small shield; cloak of charisma +10. Bard spells known: 6/5/5/5/5/5/4; bard spells per day: 4/4/4/4/4/4. Cleric spells per day: 6/5/4/4/3/2/1 (plus 1 domain spell per level). (She has 11 cleric levels so that she can cast Raise Dead on Beren.)
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-20-07, 11:39 PM	Glaurung can't fly, so I think he's something very different from an ordinary D&D dragon. Also, what about the whole "becoming Valar after death" thing for Turin? I seem to recall some quote about "dwelt as shining Valar among the blessed ones" or something ... Glaurung could be a Landwyrm. Luthien could be a Divine Bard, she'll have access to Raise Dead. Turin could just get the Quasi-deity template, the Half-Celestial template, or a unique Celestial Paragon template like Dicefreak's.
BillTheManiac 10-21-07, 12:21 PM	Gandalf was 1st level. How else do you thing it took him days to kill the balrog? High level fights would be over in 6 seconds.
BigGus 10-21-07, 07:52 PM	Feanor has rogue levels for the skill points. He's a craftsman with magical abilities, and I think rogue/sorcerer fits best of the PC classes. Of the PC classes, probably. But wouldn't Expert be more appropriate if you're only giving it to him for the skill points? Also, what about the Master Arcane Artisan epic prestige class from Epic Insights? What should I do with Turin Turambar? He's prophesied to slay Morgoth, which would put him up in the 45th-50th level range, and he and Nienor became Ainur or something similar after death. Maybe stat him with pre- and post-death versions? Where do Turin being prophesied to slay Morgoth, and Turin & Nienor becoming Ainur after death come from?
Lord_of_Vain 10-21-07, 08:50 PM	Gandalf was 1st level. How else do you thing it took him days to kill the balrog? High level fights would be over in 6 seconds. Are you serious? And I think the silmarils should not cause pain to neutrals: Feanor wasn't exactly good.
SokenzanMarauder 10-21-07, 08:54 PM	Nilbolg, where would you place good 'ole Tom Bombadil in your power spectrum? He's easily my favorite character in the books so I'd like to know where he stands. -Gene
BillTheManiac 10-22-07, 07:09 AM	Nilbolg, where would you place good 'ole Tom Bombadil in your power spectrum? He's easily my favorite character in the books so I'd like to know where he stands. -Gene Low level, but DvR. He has power over an area (realm).
Nilbog 10-22-07, 07:12 PM	Nilbolg, where would you place good 'ole Tom Bombadil in your power spectrum? He's easily my favorite character in the books so I'd like to know where he stands. -Gene I don't know... it's not too clear what he was. If I had to decide, I'd make him a 15th-level or so druid, but with the benefits of DvR 1 when inside his realm.
Nilbog 10-22-07, 07:14 PM	Of the PC classes, probably. But wouldn't Expert be more appropriate if you're only giving it to him for the skill points? Also, what about the Master Arcane Artisan epic prestige class from Epic Insights? Expert, or any other NPC class, would hurt his fighting ability too much. Anyway, he is a pretty big scoundrel ... I think Rogue/Sorcerer fits quite well. Where do Turin being prophesied to slay Morgoth, and Turin & Nienor becoming Ainur after death come from? JRR Tolkien wrote it, but Christopher left it out of the Silmarillion. I found it in the History of Middle Earth books.
Quenditar 10-26-07, 11:26 PM	If you have the Eberron Campaign Setting, what about Artificer 35 for Feanor? You'd have okay skill points (Artificers are 4+Int) and the entire class revolves around creating magic items, which seems much more in keeping with Feanor's demonstrated abilities than throwing fireballs, and also frees up feats since most of the item creation feats are given free. Don't forget to give Feanor every language he came into contact with (including Sindarin!) and a lot of ranks in Decipher Script. Not only did he make the shiniest shinies that ever will be made by fleshly hands, but he also invented the alphabet, got vowels named after him, and turned a sound change into a political shibboleth.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-27-07, 01:25 AM	Don't forget to give Feanor every language he came into contact with (including Sindarin!) and a lot of ranks in Decipher Script. Not only did he make the shiniest shinies that ever will be made by fleshly hands, but he also invented the alphabet, got vowels named after him, and turned a sound change into a political shibboleth. Done with the Polygot feat.
BillTheManiac 10-27-07, 10:10 AM	If you have the Eberron Campaign Setting, what about Artificer 35 for Feanor? You'd have okay skill points (Artificers are 4+Int) and the entire class revolves around creating magic items, which seems much more in keeping with Feanor's demonstrated abilities than throwing fireballs, and also frees up feats since most of the item creation feats are given free. Don't forget to give Feanor every language he came into contact with (including Sindarin!) and a lot of ranks in Decipher Script. Not only did he make the shiniest shinies that ever will be made by fleshly hands, but he also invented the alphabet, got vowels named after him, and turned a sound change into a political shibboleth. I always thought elves were artificers. The only elven magic we see in the main books is magic items, IDK about Silmarillion. Artificer FTW!
Willis_G 10-29-07, 10:30 AM	I would give them these sort of power levels. Tom Bombadil equal to Talisid, the Celestial Lion (Book of Exalted Deeds) Sauron equal to Asmodeus (Book of Vile Darkness) Balrog of Moria equal to the Balor Gandalf the Grey equal to a Planetar Gandalf the White equal to a Solar Ancalagon the Black equal to A Great Wyrm Red Dragon Glaurung equal to a Grey Linnorm And I would put the Valar as lesser gods and demigods.
Nilbog 10-29-07, 06:30 PM	I'm trying to use only Core, Epic, and Divine materials, so no Artificers - I don't have Eberron anyway. Earendil: Male half-elf paladin 32; AL LG; HD 32d10+160; hp 334; Init +6; Spd 30 ft.; AC 35 (+2 natural, +2 Dex, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield, +4 ring of protection), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +35/+42; Attack +7 keen frost longsword +49 melee (1d8+16 and 1d6 cold/17-20); Full Attack +7 keen frost longsword +49/+44/+39/+34 melee (1d8+16 and 1d6 cold/17-20); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA spells, paladin abilities; SQ darkvision 60 ft., half-elf traits; SV Fort +23, Ref +13, Will +12; Str 29 (21 without belt), Dex 16, Con 21, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 18 (16 without Silmaril). Skills: Profession (sailor) +18, Heal +20, Spot +19, Sense Motive +20. Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist. Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Dire Charge, Epic Prowess. Possessions: Silmaril; +7 keen frost longsword; +7 chain shirt; +5 small shield, ring of protection +4, belt of strength +8, Silmaril. Note that Earendil, being a sailor, has no special mount.
Nilbog 10-29-07, 10:11 PM	Eonwe, Herald of Manwe: Male Maia (divine rank 0) paladin 31/fighter 4; AL LG; HD 35d10+175; hp 364; Init +6; Spd 60 ft.; AC 39 (+5 Dex, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield, +7 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +38/+47; Attack +7 keen thundering shock longsword +48 melee (1d8+16 and 1d6 electricity/17-20); Full Attack +7 keen thundering shock longsword +48/+43/+38/+33 melee (1d8+16 and 1d6 electricity/17-20); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA spells, paladin abilities; SQ darkvision 60 ft., DR 10/epic (3/-), immortality, immunities, resistance to fire 5, spell resistance 32; SV Fort +24, Ref +17, Will +15; Str 28, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 24. Skills: Ride (horse) +20, Heal +22, Spot +21, Sense Motive +22. Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist. Epic Feats: Damage Reduction, Dire Charge, Epic Prowess. Possessions: +7 keen thundering shock longsword; +6 chain shirt; +6 small shield.
Nilbog 10-29-07, 11:23 PM	Morgoth, Dark Enemy of the World: Huge outsider; Male Ainu/former Vala (divine rank 0) barbarian 10/blackguard 25; HD 10d12+25d10+175; hp 374; Init +6; Spd 100 ft.; AC 37 (-2 size, +4 natural, +3 Dex, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield, +5 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +38/+47; Attack +7 keen unholy spear +48 melee (1d8+16/19-20); Full Attack +7 keen unholy spear +48/+43/+38/+33 melee (1d8+16/19-20); Space/Reach 10 ft./15 ft.; SA spells, barbarian abilities, blackguard abilities; SQ darkvision 60 ft., DR 10/epic (6/-), immortality, immunities, resistance to fire 5, spell resistance 32; SV Fort +24, Ref +15, Will +15; Str 28, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 11, Wis 21, Cha 26. Skills: Diplomacy +22, Intimidate +22, Spot +16, Sense Motive +17. Feats: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist. Epic Feats: Armor Skin (x2), Craft Epic Arms and Armor, Damage Reduction (x2), Dire Charge, Epic Prowess, Improved Aura of Despair. Possessions: +7 keen thundering shock spear; Grond, +7 unholy warhammer; +6 chain shirt; +6 small shield. ...the form he had worn as the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible. In that form he remained ever after. Morgoth takes the form of a massive humanoid several times normal height. He wields either his terrible black spear or Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld.
Taeldrin Laesrash 10-30-07, 01:45 AM	So they've only got class HD? That only works if they've got 1 Humanoid HD. which I doubt is the case. My advice is to give the Valar Outsider HD and vitual class levels.
Quenditar 10-30-07, 03:35 AM	I always thought elves were artificers. The only elven magic we see in the main books is magic items, IDK about Silmarillion. Artificer FTW! In the Sil we see a mass illusion cast by Finrod (which matches the Veil spell quite well) and a song of power during or representing the struggle between Finrod and Sauron. Curses also worked when dramatically convenient. That's all that comes to mind specifically done by Elves and not involving magic items. (Lúthien doesn't count.) Bard would be a very good match for characters so inclined, like Finrod. Feanor is not one of them. Neither are his brothers.
BillTheManiac 10-30-07, 07:39 AM	In the Sil we see a mass illusion cast by Finrod (which matches the Veil spell quite well) and a song of power during or representing the struggle between Finrod and Sauron. Curses also worked when dramatically convenient. That's all that comes to mind specifically done by Elves and not involving magic items. (Lúthien doesn't count.) Bard would be a very good match for characters so inclined, like Finrod. Feanor is not one of them. Neither are his brothers. Artificer/Bard Someone needs to design an artificer/bard multiclass prestige class. Also, here we can see why LoTR is not a good D&D setting. Magic was a plot device, no more.
Legdiwena 11-05-07, 03:30 PM	Are you serious? And I think the silmarils should not cause pain to neutrals: Feanor wasn't exactly good. He took an alignment change after his experience with Morgoth.
Lord_of_Vain 11-06-07, 10:51 PM	Hmm yes I guess your right. I haven't read that book for a long time.
Nilbog 11-09-07, 07:02 PM	Artificer/Bard Someone needs to design an artificer/bard multiclass prestige class. Also, here we can see why LoTR is not a good D&D setting. Magic was a plot device, no more. In LotR, more or less - but not in the Silmarillion. Luthien Tinuviel uses magic very freely (healing spells, deep slumber on Carcharoth, some sort of charm or compulsion on Morgoth (probably a suggestion to take a nap - who knows?), and some sort of destructive spell used to throw down the towers of Tol-in-Gaurhoth - sympathetic vibration seems to fit.) Finrod Felagund and Sauron have a spell-battle. Gurtholfin, Turin's sword, is an intelligent weapon, and most of the great elvish swords are probably epic weapons. The Silmarils are artifacts.
Nilbog 11-09-07, 07:11 PM	Spawn of Ungoliant Size/Type: Large Magical Beast Hit Dice: 5d10+15 (42 hp) Initiative: +7 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 20 ft. Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12 Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+12 Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+4 plus poison) Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+4 plus poison) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Poison, smite good Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., DR 5/magic, low-light vision, resistance to cold or fire 5, SR 10 Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +2 Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 10 Skills: Climb +11, Move Silently +11, Spot +4 Feats: Ability Focus (poison), Improved Initiative Environment: Warm hills Organization: Solitary Challenge Rating: 5 Treasure: None Alignment: Always evil (any) Advancement: 6-8 HD (Large); 9-15 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: — These creatures are horse-sized monsters in spider form. Shelob was the last of Ungoliant's spawn, and a very large member of the species. Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 17, initial and secondary damage 1d8 Str. The save DC is Constitution-based. Smite Good (Su): Once per day a spawn of Ungoliant can make a normal melee attack to deal 5 extra points of damage against a good foe. Skills: A spawn of Ungoliant has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened. --- This is a phase spider, without the phasing, Con damage changed to Str, and the fiendish template added. --- Shelob is a fully advanced one of these, thus CR 8 ( I think.)
Quenditar 11-09-07, 10:39 PM	In LotR, more or less - but not in the Silmarillion. Luthien Tinuviel uses magic very freely (healing spells, deep slumber on Carcharoth, some sort of charm or compulsion on Morgoth (probably a suggestion to take a nap - who knows?), and some sort of destructive spell used to throw down the towers of Tol-in-Gaurhoth - sympathetic vibration seems to fit.) Finrod Felagund and Sauron have a spell-battle. Gurtholfin, Turin's sword, is an intelligent weapon, and most of the great elvish swords are probably epic weapons. The Silmarils are artifacts. Lúthien can't be used as a reference, as she's half-Maia. No Elf could pull off what she could. I'll give you the spell-battle, intelligent Gurthang, and artifact Silmarils. Which can be explained quite well by some combination of bardic magic as a base and artificer-like abilities for magic item creation. (Sorcerer or Wizard is an ugly kludge; I know you don't want to use non-core material, but there is no core class that gives a character the ability to make whatever magic item they want without the ability to directly rewrite reality at will.) Thinking of Finrod, how would you stat him?
Nilbog 11-12-07, 11:00 PM	Finrod - hmmm.... Bard 25 or so. I think most Middle-earth magicians were Bards; Galadriel, Elrond, and Luthien have some Cleric levels, though. Aragorn, as a Ranger, can use minor healing spells (lore). Saruman has Enchanter levels, Gandalf probably Evoker due to his fire specialization. Feanor probably focused on personal enhancement spells with his sorcerer levels - his final battle probably involved a Tenser's Transformation in D&D terms. (All that stuff about his "fiery spirit" giving him power, strength, etc. probably translates to buffing spells in D&D.) I'd probably give Bombadil Druid spellcasting ability.
Quenditar 11-13-07, 08:44 PM	Hmm, that interpretation sounds reasonable. I would carefully control what spells players are allowed to take, though.
BillTheManiac 11-14-07, 10:38 AM	Hmm, that interpretation sounds reasonable. I would carefully control what spells players are allowed to take, though. When you get to this point, which you will with LoTR, you need a different magic system.
Nilbog 11-14-07, 10:36 PM	I'm not going to have access to a computer for a while, so I'll leave you with some more characters and critters to pick over :) Turin Turambar (as Ainu): Male Maia (divine rank 0) fighter 34; AL CN; HD 34d10+170; hp 354; Init +6; Spd 60 ft.; AC 42 (+4 Dex, +4 natural, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield, +7 deflection), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +37/+46; Attack Gurtholfin +48 melee (1d8+16/17-20/x2 and 1 Con); Full Attack Gurtholfin +48/+43/+38/+33 melee (1d8+16/17-20/x2 and 1 Con); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SQ darkvision 60 ft., DR 10/epic (9/-), immortality, immunities, resistance to fire 5, spell resistance 32; SV Fort +24, Ref +16, Will +15; Str 28, Dex 19, Con 21, Int 13, Wis 21, Cha 24. Skills: Heal +22, Listen +21, Ride (horse) +20, Spot +21, Sense Motive +22. Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Whirlwind Attack. Epic Feats: Armor Skin (x2), Blinding Speed, Damage Reduction (x3), Dire Charge, Epic Prowess. Possessions: Gurtholfin, +8 intelligent (Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 21; speaks Common; AL CN; detect magic, find traps, see invisibility at will; finger of death DC 17 1/day) keen wounding longsword; +6 chain shirt; +6 small shield. Turin Turambar (as mortal): Male human fighter 34; AL CN; HD 34d10+170; hp 354; Init +6; Spd 30 ft.; AC 34 (+3 Dex, +4 natural, +10 +6 chain shirt, +7 +6 small shield), touch 16, flat-footed 31; Base Attack/Grapple +37/+45; Attack Gurtholfin +47 melee (1d8+15/17-20/x2 and 1 Con); Full Attack Gurtholfin +47/+42/+37/+32 melee (1d8+15/17-20/x2 and 1 Con); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SQ DR 9/-; SV Fort +24, Ref +16, Will +10; Str 26, Dex 17, Con 21, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 24. Skills: Heal +21, Listen +15, Ride (horse) +19, Spot +15, Sense Motive +21. Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist, Whirlwind Attack. Epic Feats: Armor Skin (x2), Blinding Speed, Damage Reduction (x3), Dire Charge, Epic Prowess. Possessions: Gurtholfin, +8 intelligent (Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 21; speaks Common; AL CN; detect magic, find traps, see invisibility at will; finger of death DC 17 1/day) keen wounding longsword; +6 chain shirt; +6 small shield. But of Men in that last day the prophecy does not speak, save of Turin only, and him it names among the Gods. Turin Turambar was the slayer of the dragon Glaurung, first and most dreadful of the wingless dragons. He is prophesied to face Morgoth at the end of the world alongside Tulkas, and to deal the Enemy his death blow. Ungoliant Divine Rank: 0 Size/Type: Colossal Magical Beast (Extraplanar) (Quasi-Deity) Hit Dice: 128d8+1,280 (1,856 hp hp) Initiative: +14 (Dex) Speed: 60 ft., climb 40 ft. (80 ft., climb 40 ft.) Armor Class: 58 (–8 size, +14 Dex, +42 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 44 Base Attack/Grapple: +96/+125 Attack: Bite +101 (18d10+19 plus poison) melee Full Attack: Bite +101 (18d10+19 plus poison) melee Space/Reach: 50 ft./40 ft. Special Attacks: Poison, power drain, smite good Special Qualities: Vermin Traits, Darkvision 300 ft., resistance to cold and fire 10, SR 50, DR 10/– Saves: Fort +76, Ref +56, Will +42 Abilities: Str 37, Dex 39, Con 30, Int 3, Wis 10, Cha 2 Skills: Climb +21, Hide +2, Jump +25 , Move Silently +14, Spot +8 Feats: — Environment: Any land (any evil-aligned plane) Organization: Solitary or troupe (1 plus 1-20 spawn of Ungoliant) Challenge Rating: 43 Treasure: None Alignment: Always chaotic evil Advancement: None Level Adjustment: — In a ravine she lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains. Ungoliant is an immensely powerful, demonic creature in spider's form. No one now knows whether she is a fallen Maia or some other terrible being, but it is certain that she is the greatest evil being in Arda save for Melkor himself. Ungoliant's weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Vermin Traits: Immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Poison (Ex): Bite, Fortitude save (DC 94); initial and secondary damage 2d12 temporary Con. Power Drain (Su): If Ungoliant scores a successful critical hit with her bite attack, she inflicts three negative levels and 3d6 Charisma drain. Smite Good (Su): Once per day Ungoliant can make a normal melee attack to deal +20 extra damage against a good foe. Web (Ex): A single web strand is strong enough to support Ungoliant and one creature of Gargantuan size. Ungoliant can cast a web eight times per day. This is similar to an attack with a net but has a maximum range of 150 feet, with a range increment of 30 feet, and is effective against targets of up to Gargantuan size. The web anchors the target in place, allowing no movement. An entangled creature can escape with a successful Escape Artist check (DC 38) or burst it with a Strength check (DC 44). Both are standard actions. Ungoliant often creates sheets of sticky webbing about 1,000 feet square. She usually positions these sheets to snare flying creatures but can also try to trap prey on the ground. Approaching creatures must succeed at a Spot check (DC 20) to notice a web; otherwise, they stumble into it and become trapped as though by a successful web attack. Attempts to escape or burst the webbing gain a +5 bonus if the trapped creature has something to walk on or grab while pulling free. Each 5-foot section has 24 hit points, and sheet webs have damage reduction 20/fire. Ungoliant can move across her own sheet web at her climb speed and can determine the exact location of any creature caught in the web. Skills: Ungoliant receives a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Spot checks. *Ungoliant gains a +8 competence bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks when using her webs.
Nilbog 11-24-07, 05:11 PM	I had to assign favored weapons rather arbitrarily :( Ainur: All Ainur are Outsiders with 15 to 40 Hit Dice or 15 to 40 character levels. All Ainur originally had Divine Ranks (from 0 to 10), but Ainur can lose Divine Ranks by being bound to a form. This binding to a form can occur either by willingly submitting to mortal limitations (as did Gandalf and the other Istari/wizards) or through becoming corrupted and bound to a foul form (as did Morgoth and the Balrogs). In addition to the powers given to them by divine ranks (if any), all Ainur have the following abilities: Spells: Ainur can cast arcane spells as a 5th-level sorcerer. If they have levels as a sorcerer, this spellcasting ability does not stack, but overlaps. Immunities: All Ainur, regardless of divine rank, are immune to paralysis and petrification. Ainur, regardless of divine rank, are not immune to mind-affecting effects. Ainur who are not bound to a form cannot be slain, simply disembodying and 're-embodying' elsewhere. These Ainur are not given full statistics here. Ainur bound to single forms can be slain as any other creature, though they still do not age, die of natural causes, or need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. These Ainur are given creature (or character if they have class levels rather than outsider hit dice) stat blocks. Ainur who have class levels are capable of ignoring race requirements to take levels in a certain class. Ability score arrays used for Ainur not bound to a form: Aratar 35, 32, 30, 27, 26, 21; lesser Valar 33, 28, 26, 23, 22, 17; Maiar 27, 22, 20, 17, 16, 11. The Aratar: The Aratar are the eight greatest Valar. Melkor was originally the ninth of this order, but is no longer counted among them. Manwe Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 9 Titles: Sulimo, Lord of the Breath of Arda, King of Arda, Elder King Portfolio: Air, daytime sky, birds, storms Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Longsword Cleric 40 Manwe is the head of the order of the Valar and rules the air. His spouse is Varda. Varda Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 9 Titles: Elbereth, Gilthoniel, Tintalle, Star-Queen, Kindler Portfolio: Night sky, stars Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Morningstar Sorcerer 30/Archmage 5 Varda rules the night sky and stars, and is most beloved by the Eldar Elves. Her spouse is Manwe. Ulmo Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 9 Titles: Lord of Waters Portfolio: Sea, water, sea creatures Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Trident Druid 40 Ulmo rules over the sea and has no spouse. Yavanna Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 8 Titles: Palurien, Giver of Fruits Portfolio: Plants, animals Alignment: Chaotic good Cleric Alignments: NG, CG, CN Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff Ranger 40 Yavanna rules over the living things of the world. Her spouse is Aule. Her efforts led to the creation of Ents. Aule Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 8 Titles: The Smith, Mahal Portfolio: Craftsmanship, metal, dwarves Alignment: Lawful good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, LN Favored Weapon: Axe Fighter 25/Dwarven Defender 10 Aule rules over the crafts and is the spouse of Yavanna. His efforts led to the creation of Dwarves. Namo Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 7 Titles: Mandos, Doomsman of the Valar Portfolio: The dead, judgment Alignment: Lawful good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, LN Favored Weapon: Scythe Cleric 25/Hierophant 10 Namo (usually called Mandos) rules over judgment and the dead and is the spouse of Vaire (who is not one of the Aratar). Orome Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 7 Titles: The Hunter, Lord of Forests Portfolio: Hunting, forests Alignment: Chaotic good Cleric Alignments: NG, CG, CN Favored Weapon: Longbow Ranger 25/Arcane Archer 10 Orome rules forests and the hunt and is the spouse of Vana (who is not one of the Aratar). He discovered and first spoke to the Elves. Nienna Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 6 Titles: none Portfolio: Grief, healing Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Whip Wizard 40 Nienna rules grief and pity and helps heal the world. She has no spouse. Here is Melkor before his diminishment in power: Melkor Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 10 Titles: (later) Morgoth, Bauglir, Great Enemy, Dark Enemy Portfolio: Evil, extreme environments, natural hazards Alignment: Neutral evil Cleric Alignments: LE, NE, CE Favored Weapon: Spear Barbarian 10/Blackguard 25
BillTheManiac 11-24-07, 05:44 PM	Don't rangers need to take wizard levels to qualify for Arcane Archer? Why doesn't Nienna have Archmage? What are the 25/10 things? Do those classes not have epic progressions? You can make some...
Nilbog 11-25-07, 02:39 PM	Don't rangers need to take wizard levels to qualify for Arcane Archer? Crap! You're right. I really don't want to stick Orome with wizard levels, so I'll just give all Ainur limited arcane spellcasting ability. Why doesn't Nienna have Archmage? Because she's a very unimpressive character in the books. What are the 25/10 things? Do those classes not have epic progressions? You can make some... I wanted them to have epic progression in their base class, not their (less important to me) prestige class. Valar (Aratar) either have 40 levels of a base class, or 35 levels divided between a base and a prestige class. Melkor has more prestige class levels than the rest because he was the greatest of the Ainur once. (He lost divine ranks later, but not levels.)
Nilbog 11-28-07, 11:08 PM	Irmo Demigod Divine Rank: 5 Titles: Lorien Portfolio: Dreams, visions Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff Sorcerer 40 Irmo is lord of dreams and visions and spouse of Este. Tulkas Demigod Divine Rank: 4 Titles: Astaldo, The Strong Portfolio: Strength, combat Alignment: Chaotic good Cleric Alignments: NG, CG, CN Favored Weapon: Club Barbarian 40 Tulkas is lord of strength, a mighty warrior against Melkor, and spouse of Nessa. Este Demigod Divine Rank: 4 Titles: none Portfolio: Rest, healing Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Sap Cleric 40 Este rules rest and healing and is spouse of Irmo. Vaire Demigod Divine Rank: 4 Titles: The Weaver Portfolio: Memory, records Alignment: Lawful good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, LN Favored Weapon: Net Sorcerer 25/Loremaster 10 Vaire, spouse of Namo (Mandos), weaves the history of the world. Vana Demigod Divine Rank: 3 Titles: The Ever-young Portfolio: Youth Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Dagger Druid 40 Vana is the younger sister of Yavanna and the spouse of Orome. She is the lady of youth. Nessa Lesser Deity Divine Rank: 2 Titles: none Portfolio: Speed Alignment: Neutral good Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, CG Favored Weapon: Net Rogue 40 Nessa, spouse of Tulkas, is the lady of speed.
Nilbog 11-28-07, 11:20 PM	The Maiar include many types. Istari: Istari are the Wizards of Middle-earth. They are 'bound to a form' willingly, taking on the limitations of that form (including using the mortal elite array for ability scores: 15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9). They have 15 to 20 levels in one spellcasting class (not necessarily wizard). An Istar has the following racial characteristics: * +2 to either Int, Wis, or Cha; +2 to Constitution. Istari have unusual mental abilities and greater hardiness than Men. * Longevity: middle age at 1,000 years, old age at 3,000 years, venerable at 5,000 years, maximum age 5,000+ (2d10x100) years. * Radagast the Brown: Druid 15; 97 hp; Str 11, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 13. Alatar the Blue: Sorcerer 16; 88 hp; Str 10, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 18. Pallando the Blue: Sorcerer 17; 93 hp; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 19. Gandalf the Gray: Evoker 19; 104 hp; Str 9, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 10. Gandalf the White: Evoker 20; 110 hp; Str 10, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 14*. Saruman the White: Enchanter 20; 75 hp; Str 10, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 19, Wis 11, Cha 14. *Gandalf got a +4 bonus to Charisma when he returned as the White. Balrogs: Balrogs are minor Maiar bound to a form (thus losing any Divine Rank). Gothmog, the Lord of Balrogs, is a Balor advanced by 10 HD; other Balrogs are standard Balors.
Nilbog 12-01-07, 11:20 AM	Other creatures and races of Tolkien's world: Avari Elves: The Avari elves, those who refused the Great Journey to Valinor, are the least powerful and noble of the Elves. They are normal D&D elves, as in the Player's Handbook. High Elves: The Eldar (High Elves) are those who made the Great Journey, whether they reached Valinor or not. High Elves have all the abilities and traits of normal (Avari) elves, and gain the following: * Lifespan: middle age 1,000 years; old age 2,000 years; venerable 4,000 years; no maximum age. Thus, they do not die of old age. * +2 to Wisdom, +2 to Charisma. * Darkvision 120 ft. * +4 to Fortitude saves against diseases. * Special skill bonus: +4 to Spellcraft and Sense Motive if Vanyar, +4 to all Craft checks if Noldor, +4 to Profession (sailor) and Use Rope if Teleri. * Level adjustment +1. Light Elves: Light Elves (Calaquendi) are those elves who have personally seen the Two Trees. Light Elves have all the abilities and traits of High Elves, and gain the following: * Longevity: Light Elves reach middle age at 2,500 years of age, old age at 5,000 years, venerable age at 7,500 years, and have no maximum age. Thus, they do not die of old age. * Spell resistance equal to 2 X HD (maximum 25). * Speak with animals and pass without trace as spell-like abilities, each 1/day. Caster level 2nd or character level, whichever is higher. Orcs: Normal Orcs not directly controlled by a Dark Lord, such as those in the Misty Mountains and Moria, are D&D goblins. The Orcs in Mordor, and any others directly under Sauron's or Morgoth's command, are D&D orcs. The Uruk-Hai are D&D half-orcs, and being specially trained, usually have 1 to 4 fighter levels. Ents: Ents are D&D treants. Eagles: These are giant eagles. Thorondor was probably a half-celestial roc. Wargs: Wargs are D&D worgs, obviously :)
Omen_of_Peace 12-02-07, 01:20 AM	The Ring is Sauron's Item Familiar (UA variant). :) Obviously it's intelligent, has (Greater) Invisibility at will (cast on bearer) and brings some taint/corruption with it.