metamagic for buff spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

metamagic for buff spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SambleBamble
01-16-08, 05:25 PM I'm wondering if there's any metamagic feats (epic or otherwise) to boost the effectiveness of buff spells. Obviously there's extend/quicken/persist, but what about improving the actual effect of the spell.

Is there a good reason why something like empower doesn't exist?

A couple of options immediately spring to mind:
- increase the level cap by 10 per spell level increase
eg: meta magic-magic vestments gives you +1/4 levels max +7 at level 28

- scale the effect a la empower (+2 levels for 50% increase)

While I'm on the subject, does anyone care to speculate on the rationale of not having high level spells like "giant's strength" that are the logical improvement of the 2nd level buffs.
Senevri
01-16-08, 06:42 PM There's already the "Bite..." line of spells.

In any case, Empower affects VARIABLE numeric effects, so Time Stop would be a valid target, for an example. However, the animal line gives a constant increase and thus cannot be enhanced like so.

False Life would work fine, though, or Spell Turning... Um. I'm sure there are others here and there.
Avatar of Kokusho
01-16-08, 06:48 PM Unlike direct damage, buff spells are exactly what epic spellcasting is for.

You can create a spell that is essentially an uber Mage Armor (+20 or so) for around a spellcraft DC of 28, with only a ten minute casting time. It'll last all day long.

Now, if that isn't an option, there's always creating your own spells that could scale by level.
SambleBamble
01-16-08, 10:25 PM There's already the "Bite..." line of spells.

In any case, Empower affects VARIABLE numeric effects, so Time Stop would be a valid target, for an example. However, the animal line gives a constant increase and thus cannot be enhanced like so.

False Life would work fine, though, or Spell Turning... Um. I'm sure there are others here and there.

Yeah, the bite spells. I guess I'll have to try to talk my DM into my divine caster getting one/some of those.

I know how empower works, but I was thinking of an effect similar in power level to empower but for buff spells.

How's this:

Sanctify spell [metamagic] (may need a different name)
This feat may only be applied to spells that provide an enhancement, luck or morale bonus.
The spell caster channels divine energy into a bolstering spell and the bonus provided by the spell is altered to be a sacred bonus. The numerical properties of the spell are not changed. A sanctified spell takes up a slot 2? levels higher than the original spell.

So the point of this is that the modified spell stacks with the original version. Very nice for greater magic weapon and magic vestments, I think. Probably wouldn't bother with 2nd level buffs (bite of.. is better).

Also, the point of making a metamagic feat, rather than a custom spell is that epic level casting seems to assume that you're metamagicking to the hilt. You might even want to use it on a bite of () spell.

While we're at it, how about a metamagic feat to convert personal/touch spells to emanations (say 30 feet). What would that cost?
Avatar of Kokusho
01-16-08, 10:46 PM In theory, Reach Spell will allow you to affect another creature with a spell with a range of personal (only according to one wording of the feat.). Additionally, I believe Ocular Spell provides the same effect.

Personal spells are generally a heck of a lot better than anything with a touch range, so anything that will allow you to extend that range into an emanation will be a fairly hefty spell slot requirement, possibly a divine feat requiring the use of turn attempts for each 5ft of radius. Now, that would cause all those Divine Metamagic clerics to drool, (Persistent Aura of Greater Visage of the Deity or something? o_O) if it were a straight metamagic feat. However, if made into an epic feat, I'm not certain you can even take DMM for an epic feat.

Example:

Aurified Spell [Metamagic, Epic]
Prerequisites: Ability to cast 9th level divine spells, Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 24 ranks, any two other metamagic feats
Benefit: An aurified spell, generally a spell with a range of personal, emanates from you with a range of 30ft. Any allied creatures within the aurified spell's radius gain the benefits of the aurified spell as if it had been cast on them, but if they leave the radius while the spell remains in effect they will lose all benefits. An aurified spell takes up a slot six levels higher than the original spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SambleBamble 01-16-08, 05:25 PM	I'm wondering if there's any metamagic feats (epic or otherwise) to boost the effectiveness of buff spells. Obviously there's extend/quicken/persist, but what about improving the actual effect of the spell. Is there a good reason why something like empower doesn't exist? A couple of options immediately spring to mind: - increase the level cap by 10 per spell level increase eg: meta magic-magic vestments gives you +1/4 levels max +7 at level 28 - scale the effect a la empower (+2 levels for 50% increase) While I'm on the subject, does anyone care to speculate on the rationale of not having high level spells like "giant's strength" that are the logical improvement of the 2nd level buffs.
Senevri 01-16-08, 06:42 PM	There's already the "Bite..." line of spells. In any case, Empower affects VARIABLE numeric effects, so Time Stop would be a valid target, for an example. However, the animal line gives a constant increase and thus cannot be enhanced like so. False Life would work fine, though, or Spell Turning... Um. I'm sure there are others here and there.
Avatar of Kokusho 01-16-08, 06:48 PM	Unlike direct damage, buff spells are exactly what epic spellcasting is for. You can create a spell that is essentially an uber Mage Armor (+20 or so) for around a spellcraft DC of 28, with only a ten minute casting time. It'll last all day long. Now, if that isn't an option, there's always creating your own spells that could scale by level.
SambleBamble 01-16-08, 10:25 PM	There's already the "Bite..." line of spells. In any case, Empower affects VARIABLE numeric effects, so Time Stop would be a valid target, for an example. However, the animal line gives a constant increase and thus cannot be enhanced like so. False Life would work fine, though, or Spell Turning... Um. I'm sure there are others here and there. Yeah, the bite spells. I guess I'll have to try to talk my DM into my divine caster getting one/some of those. I know how empower works, but I was thinking of an effect similar in power level to empower but for buff spells. How's this: Sanctify spell [metamagic] (may need a different name) This feat may only be applied to spells that provide an enhancement, luck or morale bonus. The spell caster channels divine energy into a bolstering spell and the bonus provided by the spell is altered to be a sacred bonus. The numerical properties of the spell are not changed. A sanctified spell takes up a slot 2? levels higher than the original spell. So the point of this is that the modified spell stacks with the original version. Very nice for greater magic weapon and magic vestments, I think. Probably wouldn't bother with 2nd level buffs (bite of.. is better). Also, the point of making a metamagic feat, rather than a custom spell is that epic level casting seems to assume that you're metamagicking to the hilt. You might even want to use it on a bite of () spell. While we're at it, how about a metamagic feat to convert personal/touch spells to emanations (say 30 feet). What would that cost?
Avatar of Kokusho 01-16-08, 10:46 PM	In theory, Reach Spell will allow you to affect another creature with a spell with a range of personal (only according to one wording of the feat.). Additionally, I believe Ocular Spell provides the same effect. Personal spells are generally a heck of a lot better than anything with a touch range, so anything that will allow you to extend that range into an emanation will be a fairly hefty spell slot requirement, possibly a divine feat requiring the use of turn attempts for each 5ft of radius. Now, that would cause all those Divine Metamagic clerics to drool, (Persistent Aura of Greater Visage of the Deity or something? o_O) if it were a straight metamagic feat. However, if made into an epic feat, I'm not certain you can even take DMM for an epic feat. Example: Aurified Spell [Metamagic, Epic] Prerequisites: Ability to cast 9th level divine spells, Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 24 ranks, any two other metamagic feats Benefit: An aurified spell, generally a spell with a range of personal, emanates from you with a range of 30ft. Any allied creatures within the aurified spell's radius gain the benefits of the aurified spell as if it had been cast on them, but if they leave the radius while the spell remains in effect they will lose all benefits. An aurified spell takes up a slot six levels higher than the original spell.