Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bluetooth 01-14-08, 08:48 PM	The fellas over at athas.org have finally put out there epic supplement Legends of Athas (http://test.athas.org/) It has some fairly campaign specific stuff in there, but I'd like to know what you guys think about extending some of it to other settings. Specifically, the new Metamorphosis seed which is only usable for arcane or divine epic spells but requires the use of power points (you spend 2 x the final DC upon casting) I'm currently working on ways to use this for nonpsionic characters (in particular other hybrids such as your standard Gish). For the gish I was thinking, since the idea of the metamorphosis seed is to expend an additional resource, a gish could be forced to fight a creature (of some CR) without the use of magic in place of the power point requirement. There's plenty of interesting stuff though. They did a phenomenal job (though please keep in mind THIS IS ONLY A PUBLIC BETA FOR PLAYTESTING) I'm curious to know what you guys think.
rob_douglas 01-15-08, 10:58 AM	Thanks for this info - I am always on the lookout for new Epic material. Time to add a link to the Epic Compendium! ROB
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-15-08, 07:07 PM	I gave it a scan. The epic spells are somewhat odd in terms of the factors, some of which are absurdly high compared to what the Fortify seed could do (Defiler Metamorphosis gives you a Tongues effect for +115, and immortality for +10, for instance). But it's all very cool, that aside. Like the avangions.
bluetooth 01-15-08, 09:48 PM	Well the fortify seed has to be changed to instantaneous, which can make it quite expensive in the long run (though I haven't compared it to the metamorphosis seed). Though actually I like the rules for how to include other seeds. But yes, they are somewhat odd. Though what I think is especially cool is building an enormous structure as a focus for the arcane/psionic energies. It just has a cool feel to it. I imagine these arches tipped with crystals firing down beams of concentrated magical energy at the caster as a part of the processes of mutating/transforming him. And it would be a perfect epic seed for a Gish to use, IF it could be adapted. Giving yourself DR, Fast Healing, Regeneration, etc would go a long way to making up for the HP, fort saves, and other things you lose out on for not being a strait up fighter. That's why I'm looking for a way to adapt it. Aside from DR I don't know of any way to add those things to a character with the Fortify seed.
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-16-08, 12:24 AM	Well, feel free to use the Metamorphosis seed. Those kinds of epic spells are among the few I'd consider using. I'm just recommending that the authors compare the similar bonuses between the two seeds (And adjust for duration, again, I bring up the +180 Tongues and a +100 +2 Natural Armor bonus).
bluetooth 01-17-08, 04:53 AM	I'm having trouble finding those. In the seed it lists +1 Natural armor as +30, and tongues isn't listed, except as an ad hoc on Preserver Metamorphosis I as a part of a suit of 5 different abilities for a total of +135 (for all 5). If they've listed different values elsewhere I will definitely have to go tell them. Where'd you find those?
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-18-08, 07:19 PM	I'm having trouble finding those. In the seed it lists +1 Natural armor as +30, and tongues isn't listed, except as an ad hoc on Preserver Metamorphosis I as a part of a suit of 5 different abilities for a total of +135 (for all 5). If they've listed different values elsewhere I will definitely have to go tell them. Where'd you find those? I seem to have exaggerated a bit when I recalled the numbers from memory. However, in Defiler Metamorphosis 1, it has speak/read/understand any language (+115 DC), followed by ageless (+10 DC). Also, in Defiler Metamorphosis V, there is a +3 natural armor bonus for +90, far more than what the Fortify seed could do, and Frightful Presence for +70.
bluetooth 01-18-08, 11:35 PM	Well you're certainly right there, but I do think it's important to include the psionic requirement. This is not optional. The character who uses the metamorphosis seed must expend power points equal to the final DC and his psionic focus. It's mandatory and does nothing to lower the DC. That being said, the seed might be a little unbalanced, but I don't know that the Fortify seed is any more balanced, just different. Just my opinion though, and I'm not as familiar with epic as I'd like to be. Edit: While it might seem that Immortality is a much bigger deal than speaking/reading/writing any language, in terms of game mechanics I don't really think so. Except of course for being immune to magical aging, which is something I'm still unsure about.
Taeldrin Laesrash 01-19-08, 05:23 PM	Well you're certainly right there, but I do think it's important to include the psionic requirement. This is not optional. The character who uses the metamorphosis seed must expend power points equal to the final DC and his psionic focus. It's mandatory and does nothing to lower the DC. I like this part, actually. It makes sense, given that we can have the spell slots/power points of others help with our spells. Would an arcane version just give up the spell slots?