Paragon Vermin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paragon Vermin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheCrawlingSpleen
06-22-07, 02:09 AM The paragon template increases the base creature's stats by 15 points, so does a paragon vermin (like a crab) have an Intelligence score of 15? I realize that vermin don't have Int 0, but have it as a nonability, so the 15-point boost might not apply. Still, the idea of a crab intelligent enough to scratch words into the walls of its cave home and leave taunting messages for the PC's makes me laugh, so I had to ask.

All this talk about crabs is due to this Flash video. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mHKHKR8x6A) Aside from making me laugh, it gave me the crazy mental image of a Small monstrous crab (Stormwrack) with the paragon template (Epic Level Handbook) applied.

Who knows? Someday, when they're high enough level, and if I'm feeling particularly evil (or it's April Fool's Day), my players may yet encounter the cave demon...
askala3
06-22-07, 02:25 AM By the RAW, a Paragon Vermin is still going to be mindless with an Int of -, as Paragon does not overcome the vermin type trait of mindless.

The thought of a rather intelligent crab does make me chuckle as well.
runestar
06-22-07, 02:27 AM You can always slap on the fiendish or pseudonatural template first to give it an int score of 3. Paragon will then bump it up to 18. Smart enough for you?:P
fnord
06-23-07, 01:40 PM By RAW, no (although there are templates to break the mindlessness first).

However, if it makes for an interesting NPC/monster, I would go ahead. Remember that it loses mindlessness and the immunity to mind-affecting.
Doom_Linnorm
06-29-07, 10:28 AM Science however has proven that insects however can learn, therefore IMO they should have at least an Int score of 1.
Bees for example can learn and jumping spiders are known for their high intelligence. (for an arthropod that is)
Don't believe me?
Read up on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_spider
runestar
06-29-07, 11:23 AM Yeah, but this dnd vermin, not real life vermin. If wotc says they have no int score, than they lack one.;)
bluemage55
06-29-07, 04:50 PM Indeed.

Real-life animals sometimes have Int higher than 3, sometimes as much as 5 or 6, and I don't think they are animal companions or familiars. ;)

D&D, hoever, simplifies things a bit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheCrawlingSpleen 06-22-07, 02:09 AM	The paragon template increases the base creature's stats by 15 points, so does a paragon vermin (like a crab) have an Intelligence score of 15? I realize that vermin don't have Int 0, but have it as a nonability, so the 15-point boost might not apply. Still, the idea of a crab intelligent enough to scratch words into the walls of its cave home and leave taunting messages for the PC's makes me laugh, so I had to ask. All this talk about crabs is due to this Flash video. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mHKHKR8x6A) Aside from making me laugh, it gave me the crazy mental image of a Small monstrous crab (Stormwrack) with the paragon template (Epic Level Handbook) applied. Who knows? Someday, when they're high enough level, and if I'm feeling particularly evil (or it's April Fool's Day), my players may yet encounter the cave demon...
askala3 06-22-07, 02:25 AM	By the RAW, a Paragon Vermin is still going to be mindless with an Int of -, as Paragon does not overcome the vermin type trait of mindless. The thought of a rather intelligent crab does make me chuckle as well.
runestar 06-22-07, 02:27 AM	You can always slap on the fiendish or pseudonatural template first to give it an int score of 3. Paragon will then bump it up to 18. Smart enough for you?:P
fnord 06-23-07, 01:40 PM	By RAW, no (although there are templates to break the mindlessness first). However, if it makes for an interesting NPC/monster, I would go ahead. Remember that it loses mindlessness and the immunity to mind-affecting.
Doom_Linnorm 06-29-07, 10:28 AM	Science however has proven that insects however can learn, therefore IMO they should have at least an Int score of 1. Bees for example can learn and jumping spiders are known for their high intelligence. (for an arthropod that is) Don't believe me? Read up on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_spider
runestar 06-29-07, 11:23 AM	Yeah, but this dnd vermin, not real life vermin. If wotc says they have no int score, than they lack one.;)
bluemage55 06-29-07, 04:50 PM	Indeed. Real-life animals sometimes have Int higher than 3, sometimes as much as 5 or 6, and I don't think they are animal companions or familiars. ;) D&D, hoever, simplifies things a bit.