Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SkaSaxGuy 07-08-07, 10:48 PM	Hey all, My DM is going to be creating a PC arena style death match for characters that we'll be rolling separate from our main campaign as sort've a break in play. I'm not sure if this is best for the character optimization board or the Epic Level board so I've posted it in both. If it's not supposed to be there, please let me know so I can move it (or delete and repost) somehwere else. The rules of character creation are as follows: - we can use any of the books he or anyone else in the group owns (list to follow) - 25th level characters - 1 million gp used for items Books allowed: Draconomicon Complete Divine Complete Adventurer Complete Psionic Complete Warrior Complete Mage Complete Arcane Races of Destiny Races of the Wild Races of Stone Races of Eberron Explorer's Handbook Faiths of Eberron Five Nations Sharn: City of Towers Dragonmarked Secrets of Sarlona Secrets of Xen'drik Player's Guide to Eberron Magic of Eberron, Book of Exalted Deeds Unapproachable East (FR) Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Eberron Campaign Setting Epic Level Handbook (2nd printing) Ghostwalk Book of Vile Darkness Libris Mortis Fiend Folio Hordes of the Abyss Savage Species Monster Manuals I through IV Player's Handbook Player's Handbook II Dungeon Master's Guide Dungeon Master's Guide II Spell Compendium Heroes of Horror Expanded Psionics Handbook the Magic Item Compendium I was thinking of going an arcane caster build (probably mage 7/fatespinner 2/initiate of the sevenfold veil 7/archmage 5 + 4 levels of something else). Trying to figure out the best build/item combinations to best prepare me for anything else our group is going to roll up. We're going into it blind, not knowing what anyone else is rolling (so I hope no one else reads the boards from my group!) so I can't prepare as much as I'd like but I have a fairly keen understanding of mage spell combos and such. Anyone have some suggestions as to what build/item combos would maximize this character's potential?
Grandmaster_Kane 07-09-07, 02:02 PM	Build the most broken hulking hurler you can storm giant- 5 Hulking hurler/ 10 war hulk/whatever.....
Einvaldurinn_mikli 07-09-07, 02:31 PM	Take Craft Contingent Spell and that feat that lets you cast Immediate action spells while flat-footed(Celerity anyone?) .
Holy_Beholder 07-09-07, 02:59 PM	Be a cleric or druid. Take the prestige class Hierophant. Win. See thats a 3 step method that will work unless someone else decides to be a cleric or druid.
Amazing_Triangle 07-09-07, 10:01 PM	I think I would have some fun with it. Whether or not you win is a side point. Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist (CD) - Take the sub to reflect ray spells back at the caster (CM) Archivist 20/Heirophant 5 All kinds of crazy spells..Druid, Cleric, Any other Divine caster Druid 25 -If you want to win
SkaSaxGuy 07-12-07, 10:23 PM	I think I would have some fun with it. Whether or not you win is a side point. Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist (CD) - Take the sub to reflect ray spells back at the caster (CM) Archivist 20/Heirophant 5 All kinds of crazy spells..Druid, Cleric, Any other Divine caster Druid 25 -If you want to win Maybe I'm unfamiliar with well played druids at high levels but what would make a druid superior to the ultimate cheese that you can get from mage spells like the celerity/time stop/maws of chaos combos?
Kihon 07-14-07, 09:26 AM	Chronomancer takes all - watches the fight, rewinds time - calls in the 'time lords' - everyone dies and was never born... Chronomancer walks away...
LordBOB777 07-16-07, 02:53 AM	I use to play a Druid/MOMF/Natures Warrior Only because i like to wildshape. You could throw in other classes that add to your druid lvl like Planar Shepard just for some fun. Druid 5/MOMF 7 (or more)/N W 5/ P S 8 Even if someone you played with figured out your build (this one) how could they really know what to prepare for? Depending on which plane you pick, you could bring in that planes time and use it to buff yourself, or heal, or sleep for a billion years, then come back well rested and begin to have some real fun. This might not be the best build (well actually i KNOW its not) but it sure would cause some chaos.
magenificent 07-16-07, 02:24 PM	Your idea sounds very solid. The IotSV is nigh invincible in duels normally. I'd recommend Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/IotSV 7/Archmage 5 for building the ultimate Abjurer. These classes have near unparalleled synergy together. Counterspell builds definetely lend themselves to such a character, and with the Archmage's Mastery of Counterspelling they will be to scared to throw barely anything at you after eating a few of their own spells to the face (Just remember it only works on targeted spells). Taking the Focused Specialist variant from CM can be very useful in a duel for outlasting the opponent. 20% more spells per day versus a normal specialist wizard or 50% more versus a general one is impressive, and for only one more school. Recommended prohibited schools would be Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy. None of which help this particular build much, if at all. The Craft Contingent Spell Feat, if its allowed, is obscenely broken; no reason to pass that up. The only epic feat you'll ever need is Multispell, combined with Celerity. The daze effect is inconsequential since you'll have so many actions anyway, albeit none of them will be on your turn (the daze from multiple Celerities overlaps it doesn't stack). The Reactive Counterspell feat is perfect with this since giving up a turn you would be dazed on is no loss at all. While there are ways of circumventing the daze effect I'd recommend not using them, if only to retain some semblance of honor as you crush them utterly. :)
SkaSaxGuy 07-17-07, 03:19 PM	Your idea sounds very solid. The IotSV is nigh invincible in duels normally. I'd recommend Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/IotSV 7/Archmage 5 for building the ultimate Abjurer. These classes have near unparalleled synergy together. Counterspell builds definetely lend themselves to such a character, and with the Archmage's Mastery of Counterspelling they will be to scared to throw barely anything at you after eating a few of their own spells to the face (Just remember it only works on targeted spells). Taking the Focused Specialist variant from CM can be very useful in a duel for outlasting the opponent. 20% more spells per day versus a normal specialist wizard or 50% more versus a general one is impressive, and for only one more school. Recommended prohibited schools would be Enchantment, Illusion, and Necromancy. None of which help this particular build much, if at all. The Craft Contingent Spell Feat, if its allowed, is obscenely broken; no reason to pass that up. The only epic feat you'll ever need is Multispell, combined with Celerity. The daze effect is inconsequential since you'll have so many actions anyway, albeit none of them will be on your turn (the daze from multiple Celerities overlaps it doesn't stack). The Reactive Counterspell feat is perfect with this since giving up a turn you would be dazed on is no loss at all. While there are ways of circumventing the daze effect I'd recommend not using them, if only to retain some semblance of honor as you crush them utterly. :) In this death match, I'm mostly concerned about high level monks (with incredible saves) being able to barrel through. Granted, celerity + time stop + gate = some definite backup, I don't want to rely on a single trick to save me.
SkaSaxGuy 07-20-07, 07:45 PM	Bump. Just curious if anyone else had ideas on a mage build for this arena style match up. I've tried going back a few pages to find some intelligent discussion on spell combos/builds but I was unable to find the one referenced earlier in the post.
CainJustice 07-27-07, 02:23 PM	Monks would beat them all.
Kihon 07-27-07, 02:38 PM	Unlikely that the monk would beat them all (as suggested above) - imo. Please let us all know how the match turns out - what charactes finally played in it, and how they did. Who won - what tactics were employeed?
SkaSaxGuy 07-27-07, 03:25 PM	Monks would beat them all. That's extremely easy to say without backing it up :P
bluemage55 07-28-07, 01:13 PM	That's extremely easy to say without backing it up :P Especially when monks are a pretty terrible class choice unless you are playing some sort of LA-adjusted monster with high ability scores.
Farodin 08-03-07, 08:04 AM	There was a thread about who would win a duel at lvl 20 at the character optimization board recently. The result there was a wizard, using foresight, celerity and timestop to go first, then cast two rod maximised maws of chaos at the enemy. this instantly deals 300 damage to any nonchaotic foe. if you worry about spell resistance, just cast assay spell resistance. Should this fail, you still have all the other wizard spells and initiate abilities.
Lormador 08-06-07, 12:02 PM	Allowing all those books brings in a lot of variables, but here's my advice and I won an Epic Character Tournament to win free books in a game store, so you might want to listen. Go with the Abjurer build above, it's the strongest, sacrificing one or two of the levels in Archmage to craft an item that grants +100 Spellcraft and an epic spell. Let's call it Denial. This spell is a quickened dispel effect that gives you a +60 bonus to your caster level. You could do this with various Psion builds as well, the two classes do almost the same thing. With the Psion you'd be focused on using Time Stops and Astral Constructs to gain spell and tempo advantage, and with the Wizard you'd be using time stops, dispels, gates and disjunctions to accomplish the same thing. Buy as many Pearls of Power as possible, keep a Shapechange up, and keep plenty of Forcecages on hand. Once you've gained advantage by forcing your opponent to use up more spells than you, and dispelled his nasty offensiveness, it's time for the endgame. The position you are seeking is to get him inside a Forcecage along with a friendly Crushing Hand or Mordenkainen's Sword, while basking in the glow of your Antimagic Cone because you're Shapechanged into Beholder form. Your primary goal in the initial stages of combat is to resolve some Dispels and Disjunctions against your opponent while keeping from being killed. If you are worried about the monk, cast Contingency beforehand stating that you'll be Teleported 30' in front of you if struck in melee. Then when the monk wins initiative, charges, and hits, you're gone, his turn is over, and after the Time Stop resolves his position is difficult. Be Shapechanged into an iron golem or something else immune to magic to put a stop to enemy wizards, will o' the wisp is another good choice but not immune to sneak attacks etc. like the golems. So, taking it as a given that you can beat melee characters, even fast ones, that leaves you with divine characters and other wizards. Against other wizards you're in trouble, but you're an abjurer so you're the best suited to dealing with them. Divine characters have the annoying habit of healing all your hard work away, and tend to be shielded against instant kill effects. But they don't usually have access to the kind of magic that would allow them to escape from a recurring source of damage inside a forcecage against counterspell backup, which is the situation after you resolve a Time Stop. And that's pretty much everyone, thus your hard matchup is against someone similarly equipped as you are. A build like this scored me my Spell Compendium, Player's Guide to Faerun, and my Underdark book in one fell swoop. I crushed a Barbarian, a Druid was helpless against this silliness, a Rogue sneak-attacking character was surprisingly tough because he packed a whole lot of negation items that cracked him out of the forcecage, he always made his saves and he was really tough to hit and grapple to the Crushing Hands and Mordenkainen's Swords didn't get him. Finally I exhausted his negation items, I had pearls of power to spare, and he wound up trapped in a Forcecage getting Cause Serious Wounds from my Beholder shapechange. Then I smashed an Evocation wizard, who didn't get to resolve a spell because I won initiative and put him in a Forcecage+Bigby's Hand and countered him until he was dead.
archerpwr 08-08-07, 11:50 PM	Here's an idea: Wizard 6/ Swiftblade 10/ Abjurant Champion 4/ Full casting 4 Shapechange into a high dex form. Win init naturally. Counter their celerity with your own celerity. Enter timestop buff routine as your swift action. Switch to choker form and buff. Drop as many maws of chaos as you can. Switch to hydra just prior to ending your timestop. Charge and attack 24 times while PA for full and arcane striking.
CainJustice 08-13-07, 11:58 PM	That's extremely easy to say without backing it up :P umm what does that mean?