| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Kribage03-18-05, 09:22 AM | Admit it. You're an Epic geek. This is beyond the normal DnD obsession of those of us who post regularly on these boards. You've read you're ELH cover to cover. Thrice. You have printouts of all the Epic Insights columns. You immediately flip to the back of sections in new books to see if there's more Epic material, and you are usually sad when you already had that feat they printed memorized. That's what these boards are for. We all come here to share ideas and concepts, new spells and monsters, campaign ideas and artifacts. We love Epic! It is in that spirit that I've started this thread. Many on these boards have expressed a great deal of interest in seeing more new epic material be published. Specifically, I have seen requests for the following: 1) A fully updated 3.5 Epic Level Handbook 2) The continuation of the Epic Insights article series 3) More new Epic material being published in the new books We know that you at WOTC are attempting to incorporate epic material into your new series, but what can we say, we're greedy! And greedy consumers begging their industry for a product seems like a recipe for profit, in my limited understanding of economics. Please, please, please! If any of you out there agree, please post on this thread! All I'm asking is that you type a quick sentence to show Wizards that there are a lot of us who want more new Epic material. With enough posts, maybe we can even persuade a Wiz_O to sticky this thread so people see it regularly. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in being more active towards this end and want to do some more menial work in order to, maybe, see some response. Emailing and snail mailing the good people at Wizards might be a bit annoying (for both them and us), but in my book, Epic's worth it. :w00t: Who's with me? :w00t: |
| sorvikcorsair03-18-05, 09:54 AM | If they put out a GREAT, not good or well put together book, but GREAT book I would dish out $40+ on it. I don't want some 150 page thing, I want a 400+ preferably 600+ page book. I want NEW epic progressions with new abilities for all the new base classes and core classes. Some classes are greatly gimp at epic levels, they need more skill points or something. I would also like new epic monsters, and adventure ideas for progressing to epic. In campaigns we need to have some NPCs greater than epic for our PCs to have leaders, but how did they get there? Great battles? Diety favors? Give some of us ideas so we don't have to spend more time making new campaigns. I totally wouldn't minds TWO Epic books... or three! Player's Epic Handbook $35 Epic Dungeon Master's Guide $35 Epic Monster Manual $35 They make more money than just one book, and we get the information we want, I don't see any problem with this. |
| Nochtal03-18-05, 07:26 PM | I'm with you all here! I'd definitly buy them. Hell! Make a special edition set for them and sell them as a set with a container pouch marked with both DND logo and WOTC, do it in the fashion of medieval style book bag, I'd dish out at least 150$ for that set! |
| TheDarkestOfAngels03-19-05, 02:04 AM | I'd like a new epic book as well. Perhaps not necessarily with just prestige class and class progressions into epic (that would take up a LOT of space,) but perhaps everything revised and revamped for 3.5 for starters as well as more of what was in the last epic manuel. More monsters. more items, more item special abilitiesl, more epic prestige classes, more everything. I don't need an example city or a sample adventure, I'd rather have the information I need to be able to construct one on my own. All that information on Union and the sample adventure was just unnecessary. |
| askala303-19-05, 02:23 AM | Personally, I think I'd be happy with any one of Kribage's suggestions. Although all three would very easily be preferable. Even if they don't want to put more epic stuff in the books they release (some people don't care for epic), they should bring back Epic Insights to give "official" epic progressions of all the core and prestige classes in the new books. |
| Vatras03-19-05, 08:00 PM | I would like a new ELH 3.5 with: - epic progressions for all PrCs printed in the splatbooks - complete list and description of all epic feats in 3.5 with examples of use and limits - useable epic spellcasting system (throw out the old one) - collection of about 100 epic monsters - epic magic item section (including clear rules about making them) - some epic DM stuff (perspectives, what to expect to deal with, etc.) |
| mtgoracle03-19-05, 08:05 PM | A 3.5 epic handbook would be awesome. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels03-19-05, 08:09 PM | I would like a new ELH 3.5 with: - epic progressions for all PrCs printed in the splatbooks - complete list and description of all epic feats in 3.5 with examples of use and limits - useable epic spellcasting system (throw out the old one) - collection of about 100 epic monsters - epic magic item section (including clear rules about making them) - some epic DM stuff (perspectives, what to expect to deal with, etc.) I think epic progressions for all PrC would take up too much space. It'd be nice, but it'd be far more preferable to be in some sort of new Epic Insights articles than in a book. The space'd be far better used for new epic-only prestige classes. The current ELH had too few for my tastes. The epic spellcasting system works fine, it just needs to be streamlined with better defined limits and stuff. I don't think throwing out the old one is necessary, it just needs some reworking. You might be surprised how far some small modifications could go. the exact number of monsters is something I could care less about. whether it's an entirely seporate book (think Epic Monster Manuel) or just revamped monsters plus a bunch of new ones. but that's just me. |
| MythMage03-19-05, 09:02 PM | Chalk up another vote for a 3.5 Epic Level Handbook! :thumbsup: |
| Taeldrin Laesrash03-19-05, 09:17 PM | I say Aye! But all we need is one ELH. And more Epic Inisghts wouldn't be to bad. |
| Paul Hopebringer03-24-05, 10:03 PM | I would absolutly love a fully functional, balanced set of epic level rules!!! Maybe there could be some sort of division for different playing styles, maybe something for the instant kill type, something for the long, dragged out fighter types, and something for the ubbermegasuper larger army fighter types. There could be something for the people who don't like instant kills, and ways to impement instant kill thingies into something that is still very powerful, but not as automatic. Maybe there could be some generic prestige classes that give you acsess to several types of abilities. An "Epic Warrior" would gain access to his special fighting powers, based on his selection of features, an "Epic Mage" would gain spellcasting prowess in the ways he choses, and the "Epic... Skill Monkey" could get special uses of skills or additional skills or special talents of his chosing. That way, it is really simple to pick something you like. If you want to be an epic archmage, you would simply take the "Epic Mage" generic epic level class and pick the features that you like in order to satisfy yourself. Rather than having to struggle with intire new epic level classes, you simply need to find a feature you like, with relativly little planing needed compared to the searching you have to do now, and still may not be intirly satisfied. Sure, you are suppost to be able to take apart the prestige classes on your own, but why not have the peices all there for you to pick up, complete with rules on how to put them together, and just leave it at that. Give us an example or to if you really feel like you have to, but this should be so straightforward... Anyway, alternative ways to handle the game should be included in the book. Spell seeds are cool, but maybe a group/DM doesn't want to use them for some reason? Instead of "well, go come up with something better then!" why not have an alternative system already there, like 10th level spells or something like that? I also think that alighnments should be taken into heavy consideration. What does it mean to be good when you are so powerful that you could eaisily rule the world with an iron fist? What sort of price is waged on the soul of someone so powerful that Asmodause himself wouldn't dare face you outside of his home turf, with his minions of Hell to aid him? How can you still be neutral after so much experience has affected you that a golem would have shifted alighments? Can Chaos really rise any higher than the glory you have come to at this stage in your life? What problems arise as an epic level king of a nation, when you must deside between pooling your gold into weapons to slay of the evil that marches toward your kingdom while your villigars starve in the streets, or feeding them and having to fight with less than adiquate weaponry, possibly to no effect? How can the human body obtain such physical strength that his very bones should break for lifting such weight, and yet the bones do not break? Who can resist the charms of the nymph queens affectionate gaze, and how? What secrets can the wisdom of ages bring? What problems can't a genius solve? How can a human bend in such a manner without tearing his body too badly to move? What sort of horrible disease can affect those who seemed before unable to be sick no matter what? What does it mean to be a god? Can the strength of a mortal ever parallel that of a god on any level? Where does the line between mortal and god begin? What do the weak do to defend themselves against such a force? How is it even possible that the weak still survive? What prevents the complete and utter conquest or destruction of the world, if anything, and what can be done to prevent it. All in all, I want an epic campain to be an epic expereince, rather than just a campain with enough experience to be called epic. I would happily pay a great deal for such a product, and would even work to help it along, if I could. I cannot say "all I want is..." Because I won't be satisfied with "just" something better. I want something that I pick up and read, and I would think to myself "wow, I wish my campaign could live up to that level of greatness!", rather than me thinking "I could do better then that all by myself, if I just had some free time to myself and wanted to badly enough," and campain on with this thought always at the back of my mind. I expect legendary material from an Epic Level HandbooK. |
| claytonian03-25-05, 04:58 AM | um yeah my take is that you become somewhat supernatural as you become epic, above poster. Anyhoo, count me as voting for an epic book. Perhaps even a Complete Epic |
| green_yawgmoth03-25-05, 08:49 PM | I'd love to see an epic MM. There are FAR too few CR 20-24 creatures in the ELH, or anywhere for that matter. Very difficult to lead into an epic game from non-epic with only 7 monsters. :P http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif |
| TheDarkestOfAngels03-25-05, 08:54 PM | I'd love to see an epic MM. There are FAR too few CR 20-24 creatures in the ELH, or anywhere for that matter. Very difficult to lead into an epic game from non-epic with only 7 monsters. :P http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif That would be great. Plus, I'd like there to me more monsters from CR 25-60. Not just on the lower echolon of epic levels. It gets boring if you're only fighting prismatic and force dragons in the mid to higher levels of your epic career. (not that prismatic and force dragons aren't frickin cool.) |
| lostone03-25-05, 11:49 PM | I would love a 3.5 ELH, update everything, fix the broken epic spells mechanics, and have at least 10 new previously unseen epic prestige classes like the legendary dreadnought and perfect wight. A lot of cool player races ECL 18-25 would be great as well. |
| ShadowWarrior03-26-05, 12:27 AM | I will add my two thumbs up for a new ELH :thumbsup: :thumbsup:. |
| Jaerom Darkwind03-26-05, 04:58 AM | We're not going to get one, but I'll post anyway. Give me an Expanded Epic Level Handbook that's on par with XPH and the newest FR books and I'll buy it, WotC. |
| Patrick Draken-Korin03-27-05, 01:35 PM | count me in!! an updated epic level handbook, and a epic monster compendium. and organize the epic spell system (it ain't that bad, but it could use imporovement). |
| BelRex03-27-05, 02:18 PM | I'd most definately purchase a massive epic book..or several Epic books..if the material is good. Especially if they give LA's for creatures in the splatbooks that have - for it's LA..but would work for epic games. And perhaps some material for playing an Immortal game..there is one in the works on the net..but it still isn't complete. Of course..I would be happy with some Epic Insights again for the splatbooks they do release. |
| DreadWizardDM03-27-05, 05:21 PM | WoTC, please make 3 new epic books for 3.5 WITHOUT nerfing the heck out of it. Epic Players Guide Epic DMG Epic MM |
| Talmar03-28-05, 08:16 AM | Here's my vote for an updated or new epic book. |
| Tjaeden03-28-05, 03:05 PM | I vote for the 3 different books - that is just brilliant!!! Hey WotC - I would pay $150 bucks :) |
| Monkeygod03-28-05, 04:56 PM | id easily buy all three epic books..... twice over ..... and seriously, what the jank happened to epic insights.....i dm/play in a few epic games and i need more material....WOTC, get it together and give us more EPIC.... or i will be forced to come to ur HQ and kick kittens HA!! |
| Kribage03-29-05, 04:30 PM | I'm glad that the Epic .COMmunity (to use WOTC's terminology) is so willing/happy to push for more Epic material. Sorry I haven't really responded to all these posts, I was temporarily without Internet access. But hopefully they'll be noticed. Anyway, I believe that the Epic Insights column was ended due to the fact that WotC is publishing epic material in their new books, and, much like the popular Mind's Eye column, this presents a bit of an economic conflict (free new material vs. not-free new material, hmmmmm). I still miss that column and use printouts of many of the articles for my epic games. It would be especially helpful if they presented more 'advancing prestige classes to Epic' articles, as those are just neat and convenient, and save space so they don't have to be included in any given book. As for the new epic material I've seen in the books so far, I'm not impressed. Lost Empires of Faerun was a pleasant surprise (two new seeds? neat), but apart from that, the books have largely just printed out stuff already included in the ELH. Yeah, I suppose that is the point, so if you compile the material in the DMG, the Complete series, etc., you wind up with a 'free' ELH (at least for feats), but come on! Reprinting Positive Energy Aura and Epic Prowess doesn't quite cut it for me. I would happily shell out $150 for a complete series of Epic books (PHB, DMG, MM). Eagerly. I just don't think that would ever happen. I doubt that the Epic market is large enough to recoup the costs incurred by producing all three books. Still, I'd happily give them more money, so who knows? I think a 3.5 ELH would be more reasonable. They would assuredly reprint (again) some of the material that is already out there, but if they threw in a bunch of new monsters, feats, items, and prestige classes, I'd still buy it and walk away very happy. Anyways, thanks for the responses, and keep them coming! |
| Rangler03-29-05, 05:45 PM | I'd gladly pay fer some new Epic books, so I beg ya WotC bring it on :D |
| baerdith03-29-05, 07:23 PM | If they put out a GREAT, not good or well put together book, but GREAT book I would dish out $40+ on it. I don't want some 150 page thing, I want a 400+ preferably 600+ page book. I want NEW epic progressions with new abilities for all the new base classes and core classes. Some classes are greatly gimp at epic levels, they need more skill points or something. AMEN BROTHER! AND if they fix the sorc Gimp at Epic! Come on a sorc is the "innate" caster WHY does the WIZARD get 2 free spells known at Epic but the Sorc gets exactly SQUAT!?!? |
| JadedSeer03-29-05, 08:12 PM | We have a vast need for more epic sources in my campaign...... Fighting 5 monsters over and over gets a bit old.... |
| kgbspy03-29-05, 09:03 PM | yes, and more epic stuff would keep my dm from making up monsters that seem to defy all conventional D+D logic and the laws of nature. crazy half undead golems with uber-powered magic missile guns and eyes that cast epic spells. |
| Jaerom Darkwind03-30-05, 12:40 AM | I think that we're going to have to keep looking to DF for new epic material, though. WotC doesn't seem to care much about us. |
| Xanthia03-30-05, 01:41 AM | I think that there's plently of monsters already. I just add 10-15 class levels to a CR 12-20 monster and BOOM! Instant Epic foe. The Goblin hordes you used to fight at level 8 may have been a challeneg then, but with Epic classes, you can fight dozens of level 18 fighter goblin troopers and a level 25 bugbear general. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels03-30-05, 01:55 AM | True, but that gets tiresome and requires vast expendatures of time and effort to do that. Monsters with no class levels should be available at epic levels for the same reasons as having monsters available at any other level. Besides, there should be more epic monsters - especially ones above CR 25 and perhaps a few (aside from dragons) above CR 60. |
| heretic4403-30-05, 03:54 AM | The real issue with Epic, and the reason why the revised Epic stuff is scattered throughout books instead of centralized, is that Epic material only appeals to and is used by a very small fringe group of the customer base. As neat as a new Epic book may be, Wizards obviously doesnt see merit in printing one (if they did it would already have been done). Also, I agree that Epic characters are innatley supernatural, after all, the 3.5 DMG does say that an act of legendary proportions must undertaken by the character before they should be allowed to break 20. I mean, if a character takes out the Elder Wyrm of the Western Marches or the Demon King Suelgoth then they are obviously head and shoulders above other heroes in the setting. |
| Paul Hopebringer03-30-05, 07:36 PM | NO FOOLS!!! (Joking :P ) I already know that epic is supernatural, silly people. I want to know exactly why and how and epic charachter does what he does. The anatomy of an epic character (think draconomicon style) would be sweetness, as well as the same for dieties. My vote would be for an Epic/Dieties book. Please Wizards of the Coast friends :angel: !!! Think of it, all of the super powered wants and needs satisfied in one book, which (as you can plainly see), a great deal of people would pay for at least half of, and probably wouldn't mind the other half because it isn't out of context. There could be a clear transition between the power of an epic character and the power of a god. You could (pretty please) put a CR on divine ranks, so that when your ungody (for the time being) powerful person goes up to a god and lays down the law squarly on his forehead (with much vigor) and promply kills said god, you know exactly how much experience to give him (or what powers he should get.) All of this stuff would be great together, don't you think? Diety slaying monsters and lesser monster gods and a wildy wide variety of godspawn (as in a variety of templates, not just a generic one {unless the generic one has enough wiggle room to be apropriat, in which case fire away}) would be a great epic adventure, or godly adventure...or both. What if your cleric wants to become a god, and your fighter doesn't. Well, wouldn't it be nice if you could keep the power level equal between the two by having one epic and one godly? Sounds good to me. At least consider it, please. Pretty please! :bigeyes: I'll give you... :thinks: a hug! :ayyyy!: |
| greymarch03-30-05, 07:51 PM | I play epic D&D with 7 of my friends. All of us would pay virtually any amount of money for new epic official epic material. |
| kgbspy03-30-05, 08:59 PM | the thing with adding class levels to increase CRs is explaining certain things -why would an elder black pudding have class levels?????? -why would constructs have class levels???? -why would a paragon tarrasque have levels of barbarian?! (has happened to me) |
| sorvikcorsair03-30-05, 09:05 PM | the thing with adding class levels to increase CRs is explaining certain things -why would an elder black pudding have class levels?????? -why would constructs have class levels???? -why would a paragon tarrasque have levels of barbarian?! (has happened to me) -Elder Black Pudding will have the base class of PC Killer with the mortalbane feat to his physical attacks (yes I know you can't) -Constructs always are cohorts to Thrall Herders or Tyrants, you will never see the one controling the construct. This means they don't have class, just are slaves to a class. -If you are fighting Paragon Tarrasque then you should just become a god already and start a new character ;) |
| JiCi03-31-05, 08:47 AM | New Material, like a Complete Epic Monster Manual, with new templates and stuff. New Campaign Settings, like Epic Eberron or Fearun, filled with maps and quests. |
| Necron9903-31-05, 10:19 AM | PLEASE give us an updated 3.5 ELH, and preferably a EL Monster Manual as well. The spine on my ELH is broken from all of the printouts, updates, errata, and splatbook notes crammed inside. |
| Paul Hopebringer03-31-05, 11:22 AM | Oh, I know!!! It would be a lot easier (or at least better, anyway...probably easier...) to have a whole new campaign setting disigned to be epic. FR is...practically epic already, but putting a more epic spin on it I think would hurt my sence of reality (or...well... ...whatever) I think with people like Elminister and Halishuhwatsit running around, adding more stuff might potentially hurt it. EVERY NEW THING that is increadably powerful beyond what is already there would have to be kept secret from the rest of the world... 300 or so pages of secrets that haven't been discovered yet... I would have a problem with that, personally. Now, for a world to already have the epicyness plugged in, that would be wonderful. My little thoery as to how to make epic rules that work is to make the game start at 10th level, and have all the mechanics and politics and what-not revolve around that primisis. If you walk into a town, you would expect most of them to be 10th level commoners, possibly with a class level or two. Speaking of "commoner", why not have... I don't know... Commoner, Expert, and Aristocrat be elivated to base class status. If only for epic game purposes. Maybe the skill sets could be revised so that "important" skills and "non-important" skill could be separated from each other, and those formerly not-base-classes would be slopping over with wholesome, realiativly useless skill-monkey goodness. A commoner that can do everything he needs to do to survive on a day to day basis in a world full of epics running around, but not enough to make much of a difference without some real motivation (He could cause the same kind of damage a peaved 1st level commoner could do...host to a powerful demon that wants to...observe for a time, rather that partisipating activly in battle, for example...) The kings would more than likely be powerful in some way other than the lowest way possible that still matters (influence). Maybe that king template from XP could get a feature (I don't know how stuff like that works, but I liked the king template that is found in Magical Medieval Society.) His bodyguards wouldn't necisarily even be human. Why not have an elite guard of golems and dragons. A Calvary of Dragonriders, something that wouldn't be uncommon in an epic world. Better yet, what would and wouldn't be common in an epic world? Dragons loose something when they are absolutly EVERYWHERE, so why not preserve that and give a few examples of how epicyness wouldn't have to ruin some of the big flavor issues. Also, a nod to the players with harshminded DMs like me, a survival guide for the lower levels in an epic world. I think that starting out play as a first level character (I would recomend that those be children, monster or otherwise.) and practically out of necessity having to role-play one's way to something respectable. Take a look at Enders Shadow (shame on me... that is science fiction... I am sorry...Orison Scott Card is such an addictive writter though that I couldn't help myself) and you can see a whole lot of ways that a little kid can get fighting experience, even when the enemy is stronger. A little kid directing and "army" of little kids to gang up on their oppressors. Just because a level one character doesn't stand a chance against a tenth level one doesn't mean they can't swarm. Anyway, back on topic, I vote for more epic material again. :bump: |
| shmeck04-08-05, 04:15 AM | Yes, I'd also buy a revised, expanded 3.5 Epic Book. Especially if it revised Epic Spell development -- the current system is wobbly and filled with vagueries. |
| spike8110104-08-05, 09:49 AM | I'd also buy an epic book so long as it isn't crap. No 3rd party publishers have released new epic material since it was put into the SRD either. |
| FlotheWanderer04-08-05, 10:08 AM | I agree with all of you, I have played Epic stuff a lot, and it is one of the best things they ever published... ( if we dont mind the erratas :) ) I really like the advancement for transformational classes, i dont like the srd rules where you just give the same powers and add a bunch of feats, i prefer they would work on some new abilities for the epic prestige classes. New monsters and epic items... wellcome too :D jejejjeje |
| Jaerom Darkwind04-08-05, 03:24 PM | I'd also buy an epic book so long as it isn't crap. No 3rd party publishers have released new epic material since it was put into the SRD either.Except Dicefreaks. Actually, if you check the Compendium you'll see that there are 4 different 3rd-party epic sourcebooks currently available. |
| spike8110104-08-05, 03:47 PM | Except Dicefreaks. Actually, if you check the Compendium you'll see that there are 4 different 3rd-party epic sourcebooks currently available.Yes, their published stuff is pretty good. I haven't seen any epic material in stores, but it's been a while since I've made a stop to my local gaming shop. |
| Moriancumer04-08-05, 04:09 PM | I put my vote down for a new epic book! |
| Dragon Mage04-08-05, 04:12 PM | Count me in. I will buy several copies of anything devoted to epic gaming. With all the great stuff added to the game by the complete books, many of the epic feats need updating. I don't even care if it is 90% reprinting of old material, I am tied of looking through 6 or 7 books for epic stuff. |
| DreadWizardDM04-08-05, 10:10 PM | WOTC we want the following: 1. Epic level DMG 2. Epic level Players guide 3. Epic level Monster Manual If your company does not feel the profits would justify the expense then I suggest developing it as one of two things. Either a web enhancement that would cost money to download OR have the books printed but have a limited print run to avoid overstock and see how it pans out. Fellow message board members, I urge you to copy this entire thread and email it to WOTC. The more voices they hear the more likely we are able to get them to listen. |
| Jaerom Darkwind04-08-05, 10:44 PM | Anyone know a good email address to write to? |
| BelRex04-08-05, 11:53 PM | Has anyone read the Book of Immortals from Mongoose? I know the Immortal Handbook from Upper Krust is slow going at the moment.. Also, can anyone give me some info on the Perfected One from Dragon 297..I picked up the issue when it was out..but didn't purchase it. |
| ClothedUpon04-09-05, 12:23 AM | They did it for Psionics... It must be done for epic play... The Expanded Epic Level Handbook It needs to be bigger and better and fully upgraded to 3.5. |
| ZariusZer004-09-05, 01:00 PM | Yeah, i'm up for more epic material as well. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels04-09-05, 05:37 PM | Anyone know a good email address to write to? If you're wanting to try to find someone to write to about getting a new ELH or something printed, I think here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=107115) might be a good place to go (but don't hold me to my word.) |
| Razz04-11-05, 10:56 AM | Count me in! I want an epic book again too! WotC needs to stop making new things and then ditching them! Improve and enhance on what you already made for the system, stop writing new things and forgetting about them! Give us a new epic book with new epic material! |
| E-Arkham04-11-05, 01:14 PM | I'll add my voice, too. I don't care if it comes in the form of three books (of which I would buy all three) or in a slim Complete Epic style book, but I really really REALLY want new and better 3.5 Epic material. Kep |
| crazysamaritan04-12-05, 01:07 AM | another voice added, money pouches padded, coins hear the jingle of our geek lingo... |
| MJ the Prophet04-12-05, 07:23 PM | Its all a matter of balance. With time, the books get better. 3.5 is better than 3.0 in terms of balance, as well as full of more options. That's why they did it. I'll happily vote to improve and balance epic material. As for it being only for a small segment of the D&D population, I think if this thread gets enough attention they'll see that we're far from limited. Go Epic! |
| Drizzt Clone04-13-05, 08:53 AM | An Expanded Epic Handbook would be very much appreciated. It should include a usable epic spell system, epic progressions and feats for all 28 base classes (the 11 in the PHB, the 4 in the XPH, the 1 in the EBCS, and the 12 in the C(x) series), lots and lots of monsters, new epic prestige classes, updated prestige classes, more monsters, more feats. After that is released, the Expanded Deities Handbook (using epic rules) should be released, with rules for creating a deity, lots of divine powers in more groups than just SDAs (sorted by power), divine monsters, lots of new domains, information for running an FR-like variant in which portfolio determines the powers of a deity, and rules (not just an appendix with a DM guide) for divine ascension and divine-level gameplay. The book should offer lots of models with different setups for divine power, a few prestige classes for divine characters (deity-worshipping and deific) and a single chapter with example deity statistics. |
| deathmanalmighty04-13-05, 11:49 AM | WOOT for Epic Core Set. It is needed so bad. Let's get this thing on the production line. Vote, vote, vote some more. :D |
| Selkie_Guardian04-13-05, 03:24 PM | I vote for a new Epic Level Book (or books, but i'd prefer just one). Come On, I can't do templates or class levels forever. |
| MythMage04-13-05, 09:59 PM | If you're wanting to try to find someone to write to about getting a new ELH or something printed, I think here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=107115) might be a good place to go (but don't hold me to my word.) :bow: Thanks! :bow: I put his "[WOOF!]" thing to use. See? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=410994) I hope he sees it. |
| MeasureZero04-13-05, 11:25 PM | I'll go ahead and vote for a new ELH. Why not? I loved the original one so much that I *still* think fondly of it, even though there's almost nothing in it that I would be willing to use in my game (generally because it's either way underpowered or way overpowered). |
| JWSIII04-14-05, 01:35 AM | *Signs petition on general theory that encouraging WotC to make more D&D is always good* |
| Acirema04-14-05, 10:02 AM | *Throws his vote into the 'Hat of Holdin'* "We definatly need a revamped, up to date Epic handbook!" :mage: |
| tec-goblin04-16-05, 06:19 PM | Well, I don't want one more epic book. No, I want epic stuff everywhere. EVERY single book should have some epic stuff in it. It's like psionics: they just started to be integrated to the rest of the books. For epic rules there's still a lot of work to do. Even MM 3.5 didn't use epic rules for 21+ hd monsters, while DMG 3.5 clearly said they should be used. I think this is ridiculous. So, what I want is INTEGRATION of epic stuff in other books. Only Fiend Folio had managed some good integration. |
| Silicon Sorcerer04-17-05, 11:37 PM | I am also an epic junkie and what I would like to see are epic level MODULES. I like the DM who customizes things as much as the next guy, but that being said, sometimes it would be nice to take a break from the regular session with a night of epic gaming and a module to throw down. Right now I can only think ot 2 or 3 modules out there for epic characters. MORE I say! MORE MORE! :D |
| Barloch04-18-05, 08:12 AM | You had me at the thread name :D . We need more epic material, after all half the fun off D&D is that there is no actual level cap. So take advantage of it, make epic material for 100th level people SUPER EPIC!!!!! ~Barloch[/I] (thats a signature, kinda) |
| Psychoray04-23-05, 11:35 AM | *epic junkie votes for a new epic level handbook* |
| Muaythaidaddy04-23-05, 02:33 PM | I too would like to see some new EPIC material. |
| Nerevar04-23-05, 02:43 PM | I'd love to see more epic stuff. More of everything actually. More epic Psionic classes, I loved the idea of the psion uncarnate! Don't know if i'll need to write it here, but other places you have to place this: **Signed** Best Regards Nerevar |
| Knightfall04-24-05, 06:17 PM | I too vote for a Expanded Epic Level Handbook or, even better, thre core Epic rulebooks (EPH, EMG, EMM). Knightfall |
| lightman04-24-05, 07:10 PM | what do we want? epic books! when do we want them? now! |
| magnusfl04-25-05, 02:18 AM | badly needed are dedicated epic monster books and I hope you do at least 3 just like you do for non epic but would be nicer if it was five or six maybe breaking it in to two sets of low epic 20 to 50 and high epic 50 to 100 as I am playing in a campaign were my astral deva war cleric is now 32 and doing just fine and on his way to level 100 as well as a dm who players are currently almost epic in a campaign that will also run to 100 as we both run that at level 100 you achieve divine ascension (not to be gods but to fill high level positions on your gods home planes also I like to see 3rd be more balanced as I got no problem lowering the amount of treasure by a large amount i.e. 10% more per level then 30% per level in pre epic page 122 epic book but I do not agree on making the items in epic sickly priced as incoming funds are already being cut as there are no magic item under that can be in any loot before level 31 at which the cheapest epic item could start popping up as almost the entire loot and even at 40 you would only find about 1/2 epic magic items in there hands as the total loot for an encounter so the increase in price was thrown out in my friends campaign and so far it has worked much better but it fact at 30 we still have any bought epic items as our party have life's which tend to eat our money such as my character wife and our daughter so currently I got under 100k in hard funds i.e. not tied up in equipment that I use or my home |
| shmeck04-25-05, 02:36 AM | Yes, there is definitlely a need for a 3.5 epic book. For me, the area that needs updating most is the Epic Spell development system. It simply does not mesh with the 3.5 non-epic spell system |
| StrahdVonZarovich04-25-05, 02:38 AM | Count me in as well. |
| Lord Arkhaven04-25-05, 10:44 AM | An Expanded Epic Level Handbook would be a welcome purchase. The Epic Level book was a good one, ambitious, bold, but covered a lot of new material that could use a second draft. If they could do to epic what they did to psionics that would be great! |
| Crimson Conjurer04-25-05, 11:35 AM | Nothing would please me more than to see an updated Epic Handbook, complete with new epic spells and spell creation methods. Epic core classes from the complete series and psionics bundled up in there wouldn't hurt either. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels05-04-05, 04:12 AM | while electricity flies around the laboratory from the raging storm above, the mad scientist raises the switch and shouts "LIVE, DAMN YOU, LIVE!" as lightning courses through the equipment, reviving a creature of enourmous power. "I shall call you - Wiggles, my pet" "Nnnnnrrraaaaagh!" the reanimated corpse spat as it lurched into an upright position. "NNnnnnoooo wwiiiggles!" "Then what shall I call you, my creation? What name should suit a beautiful creation such as yourself?" The creature thought for a moment, prooving an insight beyond that of mortal comprehention. To the scientist, a thousand lifetimes passed. "Rrr..." "What is it?" The scientist asked. "My name... is Edwardo." (with a heavily rolled "r") .... oh, and bump. (My excuse for the above is that it's 3am. Nyah.) |
| Banpai05-04-05, 08:45 AM | I would certanly love to see more Epic Material updated to 3.5so count me in :) |
| Karanth05-04-05, 02:15 PM | There's been updates for pretty much everything else. (How many bardic music feats do you NEED?) WE WANT EPIC! WOOOOO!!!!! |
| ClobberinTime05-04-05, 03:35 PM | Personally I want epic level adventures.....and not just one a year in dungeon, are any non WOTC products epic adventures???? |
| baerdith05-04-05, 06:09 PM | \(How many bardic music feats do you NEED?) As many as I can Get!!!!! :w00t: :plotting: :evillaugh :drool: :rimshot: :cookie: |
| Jaerom Darkwind05-04-05, 09:39 PM | Personally I want epic level adventures.....and not just one a year in dungeon, are any non WOTC products epic adventures????The Gates of Hell lends itself well to epic forays into the Nine Hells. No pre-constructed adventures, but tons of opportunities and adventure hooks. |
| Executrix Swordslasher05-05-05, 10:51 AM | more epic stuff yeah ^_^ I'm running out of epic feats and epic prcs.... need more |
| rob_douglas05-05-05, 11:31 AM | I would love more and updated Epic stuff, but I really want it to also fix and address some of the many issues that have been brought up here and in other forums over time. I want Level Adjustments for everything in all the other books, a serious relook at the use of level limits on spell effects for the existing spells, PrC expansion guidelines for existing PrCs (just tell us whether the bonus feats should be 3, 4, 5, or 6 levels), some good ideas for additional class improvements (like the Epic Loremaster secrets, Improved Spell Lists for Bards, Rangers, Paladins), more truly Epic PrCs (Like the Agent Retriever, Divinie Emissary, etc.). And a complete relook at Epic Spellcasting, including whether the seeds should have changed effects based on 3.5 upgrades, and what the factors should be, and what limits there should be on applying them. Oh, and more intelligent feat choices for Epic Monsters. Take a look at the Advanced Red Dragon - it has Spell Opporunity (cast a touch spell as an attack of opportunity) and NO touch spells. *sigh* Finally, clearly written explanations of the things that have been confusing people the most - when are you epic for the purposes of: feat qualification, epic BAB, epic saves, experience, treasure, etc. Of course, that is my idea for the revised and expanded ELH. I also want lots of adventure ideas. But unlike most adventures, that come fully statted out, I think it would be better to deisgn them in outline form - plot outline, and basic character/antagonists/treasure ideas, with plenty of room to customize - because no 2 epic campaigns are even close to the same level/style of play. Like take some seeds, and bring in the story elements to more completely flesh them out and add in hooks and arcs. ROB |
| Joanem05-05-05, 07:04 PM | they should make another epic level handbook and it should be real long not like the book of vile darkness or other short books. I know i'd buy it! :drool: |
| insatium05-05-05, 08:53 PM | I'm all for ANY sort of compiled, updated 3.5 Epic material that is more comprehensive than the dribbles we have scattered throughout the books nowadays. Take Complete Adventurer or Complete Divine, neither bothered with epic progressions for their base classes. :( |
| Retsej Esiw05-05-05, 10:35 PM | New Epic! Sounds great! Me want! |
| rob_douglas05-06-05, 12:23 AM | they should make another epic level handbook and it should be real long not like the book of vile darkness or other short books. I know i'd buy it! :drool: Thanks for mentioning Vile Darkness - yeah, I want Epic Updates for the demon lords and archdevils, as well as their epic level minions (and they have a few), plus maybe some "real epic" options to make them bigger and badder in a higher-level campaign. ROB |
| ebaatezu05-06-05, 07:29 AM | Are there any groups online that are for epic material? i know that there is dicefreaks ( and I love it ), Are there any others? Wish someone would make an epic group (Hint) :) |
| Upper_Krust05-08-05, 03:14 PM | Hey there BelRex! :) Has anyone read the Book of Immortals from Mongoose? I haven't read it yet, but there were two reviews of it over at ENWorld last time I checked. I know the Immortal Handbook from Upper Krust is slow going at the moment. Yes...sorry about that. The first half of the Bestiary (35 new epic monsters) is at the editors and should be available in about a week to ten days time. The second half of the Bestiary (another 35 monsters) will follow about 5-6 weeks after that...at least thats the plan. You can see the first two monsters (both Abominations) over at the website: http://www.immortalshandbook.com |
| BelRex05-08-05, 11:49 PM | Thanks for the reply Upper Krust, I've been keeping up with your progress, but have not posted on those boards. I can't wait to see the work! |
| StrahdVonZarovich05-09-05, 12:16 AM | Humm I wonder, if I want to ask 'em directly if they're gonna ever release such a thing, to whom must I email my question exactly ? |
| thasis05-09-05, 12:17 AM | Go more epic material. I'm all for this. Who wouldn't want more Epic Material. Everybody who dislikes anything epic should be shot... twice... in the head... :P . Anywayz, I'm all for this. |
| lostone05-09-05, 07:41 AM | Go more epic material. I'm all for this. Who wouldn't want more Epic Material. Everybody who dislikes anything epic should be shot... twice... in the head... :P . Anywayz, I'm all for this.While I agree that everyone should enjoy epic (the shooting is a bit extreme), I have played with some DMs who seem to have a limited imagination. Their idea of a good D&D game ends at level 10 (or less), anything higher than that is simply "too powerful, the character's can't be effectively challenged." :nonono: Like I said...limited imagination. But in my experience that is about half the DMs I've played with (I've only played with about 8 DMs). So while that isn't a good percentage of the gaming population to base this off it, if that was an accurate percentage then you can figure that WotC could only expect half the sales on the book compaired to higher selling books like campaign sourcebooks (Eberron, Forgotten realms) or the class books like Complete Warrior. And that is if everyone who likes Epic buys it. From a business standpoint I really don't see them doing it, although I would definitely buy it if they did. |
| Jaerom Darkwind05-09-05, 03:26 PM | While I agree that everyone should enjoy epic (the shooting is a bit extreme), I have played with some DMs who seem to have a limited imagination. Their idea of a good D&D game ends at level 10 (or less), anything higher than that is simply "too powerful, the character's can't be effectively challenged." :nonono: Like I said...limited imagination. But in my experience that is about half the DMs I've played with (I've only played with about 8 DMs). So while that isn't a good percentage of the gaming population to base this off it, if that was an accurate percentage then you can figure that WotC could only expect half the sales on the book compaired to higher selling books like campaign sourcebooks (Eberron, Forgotten realms) or the class books like Complete Warrior. And that is if everyone who likes Epic buys it. From a business standpoint I really don't see them doing it, although I would definitely buy it if they did.Well, while I haven't had many DMs who use epic, I've never had a DM who used a published campaign setting or adventure module. So if the dozen or so DMs I've had are an even somewhat accurate cross-section of the market, an epic book would seel much better than any Eberron or Realms book. |
| Danielle05-10-05, 01:15 PM | I recently submited for thier new fiction line, and that story is based on an epic campaign! WE WANT MORE EPIC!!!!!!!!! Count my vote twice if you can! I'll send my players this way now. |
| Wrin77705-10-05, 05:40 PM | Count me in. *signed* |
| Arknath05-12-05, 12:44 PM | I've always thought that Epic material (as well as psionic material) is the proverbial "red-headed stepchild" of D&D. They get one book an edition and then they are forgotten (at least until the complete books came out). I think that more epic material would be worth my money and at least how to lead a non-epic game into an epic game. |
| vivijen05-13-05, 09:08 AM | Give us a more updated book FOR EPIC PLZ! |
| Idontknow05-13-05, 10:03 AM | GREAT !! This thread represents exectely what I ve wanted for a long time ! |
| Verris ƒilliƒān05-14-05, 02:37 AM | from playing in an epic level world i will tell you there is nothing put out by D&D as of yet that Verris can't squish under his thumb... more epic = happy DM's happy DM's = happy players Happy players invite other players to play which = more money for D&D... hum makes since to me .... count me in on that vote |
| WarDragon05-15-05, 11:46 PM | Signed (on the condition that they don't screw it up). |
| Necrohazard05-17-05, 02:07 AM | I would be more then happy to see more epic in the game and would love to see what the true epic fiends and angels look like, so count me in all the way with this one. No doubt my jink is on the table! |
| Jaxom05-17-05, 02:22 AM | I would love to see more Epic material... our campaign that started back when 3rd edition was released is about to come to a halt because of the lack of material for the DM's to draw from. We're about a few months away from starting over with Arcana Evolved. |
| Senchal05-17-05, 12:25 PM | Consider me as in. I would love to see more epic everything. More monsters, more classes more feats & spells. More anything else I can't think of. :D |
| StrahdVonZarovich05-17-05, 03:03 PM | This thing/petition is already four pages long, if this doesn't convince them, I wonder what will ! |
| Senchal05-18-05, 03:13 PM | still needs more support. come on people! more is better ;) |
| NinjaPenguin05-19-05, 11:20 AM | Let there be Epic! Please? Pretty please? :D |
| PrinceAzar05-19-05, 02:00 PM | I'd like more Epic Level Material |
| Verelor05-19-05, 03:51 PM | Please Wizards of the Coast, release a new current Epic Level Handbook! People will buy it! As for bringing back the retired Epic Insights column, I drool at the prospect, definitely give us that back too. Pre-published epic-level adventures eh? There's reasons why they don't release many of those anywhere. The first reason is quite obvious, and that is most characters in Dungeons & Dragons end their adventures long before they reach level 10, due to an untimely death or some other reason. The second reason is the real killer, and that is that with power comes a vast and overwhelmign amount of choice. If you've ever written an adventure, you've noticed that with the choices even just a level 8 group has available, it is extremely difficult to write an adventure that covers all bases. Who in their right mind is going to try to write an adventure for a group that has power and choice enough to rival the gods themselves!? Almost noone! That is why the epic adventures you do turn up seeing that have been written are almost always of poor quality. If you've got an epic group, they can do almost anything with their ungodly powers that the imagination can come up with, and you're best off winging it, actually. Oh, yeah, you've got my vote for sure. New epic content! \oo/ >_< \oo/ |
| general.Muse05-20-05, 10:35 PM | Yes pe-lease :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :cool: |
| Rathik05-22-05, 02:47 PM | As a busy DM with little time to come up with material aside from writing storylines and statting NPCs and BBEGs, more Epic material would really save me the time and trouble of inventing it myself. Now I can DM and keep my job! :D |
| RivenShadowblood05-23-05, 12:08 PM | The group that I game with, and have for the last 10 years is changing all the time, and DM's come and go, but all of them have enjoyed running Epic campaigns. There is a lot to be said for such high adventure, and it would be great to see the rest of the information that Wizards has provided updated into 3.5 Epic books. There are three of us that usually DM high level campaigns, and we each buy our own set of books so that we can keep multiple campaigns running at the same time. We'd love to see more epic stuff!:invasion: |
| Mirikon05-23-05, 09:41 PM | Definately! We can always do with some more Epic material. |
| ShadowWarrior05-23-05, 10:31 PM | More isn't better, better is better. :) Anyway consider this signed (under the assumption that it will be done well) |
| Scott16TheGR8105-24-05, 12:46 PM | I love epic level games! I am all for Wizards of the Coast providing us with new epic books, this will enrich my game greatly. Please give us more epic material. |
| SabianDeMarco05-25-05, 05:57 PM | I'm in. A 3.5 Epic Level Handbook would be a blessing. |
| Alcora05-26-05, 12:51 AM | Throw in my vote as I definitely use Epic material and would like to see a revised book for 3.5. |
| Salernodc05-26-05, 01:34 PM | I concur, agree, and endorse! WOTC Big Sister or Brother - please post in this thread and let us know that some figure of authority is at least reading, pondering, and investigating this matter. I would love to see more epic level material. Thanks kindly. |
| Kribage05-26-05, 01:40 PM | Hey, just figured I would let everyone here know that I have passed this thread on to the good people at Wizards, who assured me that the appropriate teams would take a look. So, keep posting! Thanks. |
| Verelor05-28-05, 12:20 AM | I only hope that a board mod will reply to this topic sooner or later. Feels like we're practically yelling at a wall here! :P |
| Jaerom Darkwind05-28-05, 01:23 AM | Um, guys--the mods aren't even WotC employees, let alone D&D designers. Having them respond won't affect anything. |
| SniperHare05-28-05, 04:46 PM | Yeah, let's have a new updated El handbook. i'm tired of not knowing how to upgrade an epic druid. Stupid animal companion rules. how many do i get? |
| vivijen06-02-05, 12:55 AM | Epic Epic Epic Epic Epic Epic Epic Lets Get Epic Epic Epic Epic |
| Amrien06-02-05, 01:45 AM | Yes. Epic. Gotta love it. I'm enthusiastic. Woo Woo. But want more epic. I do. |
| EldritchEvos06-03-05, 07:53 AM | WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! WE NEED EPIC WEB ENHANCEMENTS!!!!!! WE NEED EPIC BOOKS!!!!! ......is any listening? :confused: |
| DragonBringerX06-07-05, 04:46 AM | :eek: an 3.5 Epic Lv Hndbk is something that seems like it should be common sense up there at WOTC. I mean, how many people would be willing to dish out $40+ for an expanded book. Although i have a feeling, they would make it $50+ b/c all of the other books got more expensive, so it would only make sense that they would do that. Plus the higher price should make up for the lack of masses that play. However....THERE IS STILL A MASS THAT DOES PLAY AND WE NEED RULES. :rant: Not only a mass, but a HUGE mass at that. :invasion: All of this fliping through a million books just try and figure out what and 11th level p/c in one of the complete books is just :censored: ... uh...tiresome. I like to think of myself as a balanced player and DM, but i need offical rulz to make sure i am balanced. If they did do 3 books however, that would be awsome!!!! And i'm all for it.... :D :rofl: |
| Klytus06-07-05, 02:24 PM | Add me to the list of folks whou would like to see an updated and revise ELH. |
| Dream Wraith06-07-05, 04:28 PM | I haven't purchased an epic handbook, nor do I plan on it until a revised epic handbook comes out. In our campaign we are approaching epic levels and I would like to continue the campaign, however I do not have the time or the inclination to update the current epic handbook to 3.5. |
| SpydaMan_6206-07-05, 04:47 PM | You guys at WoTC would be insane, or maybe retarded if you don't print new UPDATED!! 3.5 epic material. Right now I'm looking at my epic material wondering, "Why you haven't atleast put out a 3.5 epic level handbook?". It's too hard to look at the update booklet and try and convert 3.0 ELH to the 3.5 equivilent according to the update booklet. If you guys just put out a 3.5 with all the works I'd spend good money on it. And look at it this way. All your hardcore DnD players would buy one. So that's just about 1 in 4 of your members, maybe more. :eek: That's a lot of books and well worth the time, effort, and publishing cost. So serioulsy think about it. And please do it fast!! :D —Spyda-Man |
| Undead Fred06-08-05, 10:45 AM | I'd love to see a new book. |
| DreadWizardDM06-10-05, 02:47 AM | Here it is in a nutshell people. I have personally emailed the weblink and the entire contents of this entire thread to all the major executives at WOTC. Please make an effort and call thier customer service or write them a letter asking for the epic materiel we so crave. PS: Be polite lol. |
| Upper_Krust06-10-05, 07:57 AM | Hi all! :) Here are my thoughts on what would make a successful formula for a 3.5 version of the Epic Level Handbook. 1. Retain the 320 page size, but change the text density to match the Core Rulebooks. In my estimation this would probably 'create' an extra 60-70 pages. 2. Keep the infinite scaling of class progressions, but have some examples of the core classes fully fleshed out to perhaps 50th-level. 3. Have illustrations for all the New Epic Prestige Classes (Perhaps include the Epic Prestige Classes that appeared in Dragon Magazine a few years back as well). 4. Abandon (or at least condense) the Epic Skills. They simply don't add very much. Balancing on a cloud is very cool, but its something Monks should be able to do (via epic feats) long before they can meet a balance DC of 120. Not to mention its something wizards can do better at 5th-level. 5. Some of the epic feats could do with tweaking/replacing. Improved Toughness is more sensible than Epic Toughness for example. On average the feats are good, but with some tweaking and new additions they could be great. Although I would like to point out that epic feats such as Improved Spell Capacity and Improved Metamagic (among others) probably do more damage than good to epic campaigns, to which I have a solution here: http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff9.htm 6. Epic Spells. Tricky one to call. I liked the Epic Spellcasting system, but theres no denying it has its share of problems. Also many of the epic spells were lacklustre. I have a variant epic spell system that is much superior. The absolute bare bones of which can be seen in the above link. 7. With regards Epic Adventuring the one thing I have to point out is that the challenge ratings are totally broken at epic levels and yes I can prove it. ;) http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=132991&page=2 8. Epic Magic Items chapter I though was one of the worst of the book. This needs a miracle spell cast on it, as there was a severe lack of imagination throughout. Also the artifacts were so feeble it was embarrassing, make sure they are suitably 'epic'. 9. Epic Monsters, more of the same please (although I don't, by that, mean four, five and six-headed Sirrushes). An extra 30 or so monsters would be fantastic. The only advice here is be careful of 'silly' details like why does the Sirrush have an Intelligence 35, why does the Colossal Ha-Naga have Strength 27, why does the Colossal Xixecal only deal 2d8 damage with its slams when the Huge Behomoth Gorilla deals 4d8!? Could the Hunefer be a Template? Could the Mithral and Adamantine Golems be made interesting with some actual unique abilities. 10. Give the epic organisations at least one fully fleshed out member. I remember the Infernal Assassin they had in Dragon Magazine - that was cool. 11. Not sure at all about Union. Condense it and give us a few pages on each of the Planar Metropolises, like the City of Brass, Tu-nareth and Ilkkool Rrem as mentioned in the sidebar of the ELH. They all sound much more interesting. 12. Kerleths Tower was not a great or memorable adventure. No memorable encounters or NPCs. My suggestion would be for two adventures of about 30 pages each. One for 30th-level characters the other for 60th-level characters (yes 60th), also make sure they feature memorable villains. One of the adventures could be an update of previous edition adventures such as the Throne of Bloodstone or the Queen of the Demonweb Pits. 13. Epic Characters, how about featuring Achilles, Baba Yaga, Conan, Cu Chulainn, Elric, Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, Gandalf, Gilgamesh, Hiawatha, Iggwilv and Odysseus. Also if you are going to include Elminster for goodness sake put the entries in alphabetical order so it doesn't look like you are totally pimping him. Thats all I can think of at the moment. Any comments? |
| Charles Ryan06-10-05, 03:58 PM | Yesterday, a poster on this thread spammed WotC's entire senior executive staff with an email that included the entire text of this thread. (Actually, by accident or design it contained two entire texts of this thread, resulting in an email that was nearly 30 pages long!) If you'd like to get a little attention for your cause, that's one way to do it. Don't count on the attention being very positive, however. If you'd like to discuss this issue with D&D decision makers, there's an easy and appropriate way to do it. Go to the D&D General forum and read the sticky thread entitled "Questions for Charles?" I'll look forward to hearing from you there. |
| DreadWizardDM06-10-05, 07:23 PM | Yesterday, a poster on this thread spammed WotC's entire senior executive staff with an email that included the entire text of this thread. (Actually, by accident or design it contained two entire texts of this thread, resulting in an email that was nearly 30 pages long!) If you'd like to get a little attention for your cause, that's one way to do it. Don't count on the attention being very positive, however. If you'd like to discuss this issue with D&D decision makers, there's an easy and appropriate way to do it. Go to the D&D General forum and read the sticky thread entitled "Questions for Charles?" I'll look forward to hearing from you there. Spammed? Excuse me but I am a business owner as well and when my customers contact me via email I do not classify it as spam. I have been alive long enough to realize that if you want the proper recognition or attention, you need to go straight to the company decision maker(s). I have about 40 employees under me and when one of my clients wants a project done or needs help they contact me, not one of my employees. If you recieved two texts of thread that was a mistake and I apologize. My email was polite and professional, and merely contained information for the decision makers to have readily available. Being a small business owner like myself I realise the value and impact of being able to contact a corproate CEO directly. I know my clients appreciate it when I personally talk to them, and not to just one of my service technicians or to my office manager. It is your right to ban me from these boards if you believe I am nothing more than a trouble maker. However all I intended to do was pass information from your customers to your executives. You know my email address and if you would like to, you can feel free to contact me if you need to. Sincerely; Mr David W. CEO & Owner DMW Computing Solutions INC |
| Upper_Krust06-11-05, 07:06 AM | Hey Charles! :) Yesterday, a poster on this thread spammed WotC's entire senior executive staff with an email that included the entire text of this thread. (Actually, by accident or design it contained two entire texts of this thread, resulting in an email that was nearly 30 pages long!) If you'd like to get a little attention for your cause, that's one way to do it. Don't count on the attention being very positive, however. If you'd like to discuss this issue with D&D decision makers, there's an easy and appropriate way to do it. Go to the D&D General forum and read the sticky thread entitled "Questions for Charles?" I'll look forward to hearing from you there. I would hope you don't hold the actions of one over enthusiastic and silly epic gamer against us all. Spammed? Excuse me but I am a business owner as well and when my customers contact me via email I do not classify it as spam. I don't think you have caught the gist of what Charles was saying. Instead of sensibly emailing him and the other WotC staff with the thread link (a link to their own message boards no less), you sent all of them the entire contents of the thread...twice over. I have been alive long enough to realize that if you want the proper recognition or attention, you need to go straight to the company decision maker(s). I have about 40 employees under me and when one of my clients wants a project done or needs help they contact me, not one of my employees. If you recieved two texts of thread that was a mistake and I apologize. My email was polite and professional, and merely contained information for the decision makers to have readily available. Being a small business owner like myself I realise the value and impact of being able to contact a corproate CEO directly. I know my clients appreciate it when I personally talk to them, and not to just one of my service technicians or to my office manager. It is your right to ban me from these boards if you believe I am nothing more than a trouble maker. However all I intended to do was pass information from your customers to your executives. You know my email address and if you would like to, you can feel free to contact me if you need to. By all means email WotC, I'm sure they don't mind that. But theres no need to force feed them 30 pages of text. Its tantamount to ramming it down their throats. |
| DreadWizardDM06-11-05, 03:14 PM | By all means email WotC, I'm sure they don't mind that. But theres no need to force feed them 30 pages of text. Its tantamount to ramming it down their throats. It was pasted into the email body twice by accident. It was supposed to be 14 pages. Nobodys perfect. **shrugs** |
| Upper_Krust06-11-05, 05:49 PM | Hey DreadWizardDM! :) It was pasted into the email body twice by accident. Well accidents will happen. It was supposed to be 14 pages. Yes, but even that was a gaff. In fact even a page of text would be a mistake, considering all you needed was to give them the link. Nobodys perfect. **shrugs** Don't beat yourself up about it mate, I am sure WotC will chalk it up to over-enthusiasm. No harm done. :) A 3.5 update of the Epic Level Handbook will happen if WotC believes it is a viable business proposition. Personally I don't think it is without massive changes (such as I listed previously). If it was just simply the same book converted to 3.5 I wouldn't buy it and I am as hardcore an epic gamer as anyone on this planet. A 3.5 Epic Level Handbook needs some thought behind it. Its possible WotC may not think the effort is worth the reward. In which case they should ask me to do the update. :p |
| BelRex06-11-05, 07:06 PM | Ok, after all this hopla has died down, has anybody started a thread about an epic book yet, as per the WizO's suggestions? If not..I nominate Upper Krust :P |
| Upper_Krust06-11-05, 08:41 PM | Hey BelRex! :) Ok, after all this hopla has died down, has anybody started a thread about an epic book yet, as per the WizO's suggestions? If not..I nominate Upper Krust :P I'll be happy to do it (I have read Mr Ryans instructions for calling attention to the 'high-ups'). However, first, how about we get people in this thread to list their suggestions for what they would like to see in the revised Epic Level Handbook. That way, I can create the thread, and with the opening post list our top 20 (or whatever many) suggestions for ways to improve the ELH. As I mentioned before, I won't be buying a Revised Epic Level Handbook that is a mere 3.5 compliant update, unless they make significant improvements in certain areas. But obviously such a thread won't carry much weight if its only about what I want. So thats why I would first like to hear what everyone else wants from such a book. Then we can compile our suggestions at the start of the new thread. Obviously its better to have the suggestions listed at the start rather than 'force' the WotC staff to hunt through multiple posts over potentially multiple pages, many of which may carry the same message of "More Monsters Please!". So get posting here. What do YOU want to see in the Revised ELH!? |
| BelRex06-11-05, 09:54 PM | Well, there are 3 pages of what we want. We need a single post to continually edit and add it as a list. Perhaps the original poster or perhaps the second could do that. Or perhaps start another thread, where the posts are limited to a single line listing what they would like. I personally want: The LA for all monsters in the monster manuals listed..like the planetar or solar, delve into level 11 and 12 spells(for those who don't play in Faerun, where they are banned), more high CR monsters, better rules for epic play, more epic PrC's, more balanced epic feats, perhaps instructions on how to incorporate deific characters into epic play, rules for ruling an epic kingdom..etc. You get the idea. |
| Klytus06-11-05, 10:56 PM | 1) Update the basic ELH to 3.5 rules 2) Revise or even toss out the current Epic Spell system entirely 3) Give some examples of Epic Characters besides the trademarked ones nobody really wants to fight (Elminster, Mordenkainen, etc.) and throw in some more of the epic villians (like Iggwiliv). 4) Epic versions of the 5-level PrCs. I'm sorry, but an Archmage, by definition, should be able to bend magic in some EPIC ways. 5) Level Adjustments for monsters beyond what is listed in the Monster Manuals so they can be converted into Epic encounters if given PC levels. Just imagine a Wyrm Black Dragon Necromancer, a Solar Paladan, or a Balor Blackguard. 6) Some way (other than by relying on their Stat Bonus) for spell casters above 20th level to increase how many spells/day they get |
| Alakar06-11-05, 11:08 PM | just passing through, and I as well would love new epic material. |
| Jaerom Darkwind06-12-05, 12:27 AM | I agree with many of UK's points, but have a few comments. 4. Abandon (or at least condense) the Epic Skills. They simply don't add very much. Balancing on a cloud is very cool, but its something Monks should be able to do (via epic feats) long before they can meet a balance DC of 120. Not to mention its something wizards can do better at 5th-level.I quite like this section. I think it should be expanded. What epic feat will let a character balance on a cloud? 9. Epic Monsters, more of the same please (although I don't, by that, mean four, five and six-headed Sirrushes). An extra 30 or so monsters would be fantastic. The only advice here is be careful of 'silly' details like why does the Sirrush have an Intelligence 35, why does the Colossal Ha-Naga have Strength 27, why does the Colossal Xixecal only deal 2d8 damage with its slams when the Huge Behomoth Gorilla deals 4d8!? Could the Hunefer be a Template? Could the Mithral and Adamantine Golems be made interesting with some actual unique abilities.I'd add to this that a number of non-evil DvR 0 creatures would be very nice. 11. Not sure at all about Union. Condense it and give us a few pages on each of the Planar Metropolises, like the City of Brass, Tu-nareth and Ilkkool Rrem as mentioned in the sidebar of the ELH. They all sound much more interesting.Don't forget Sigil. Explain it from the point of view of epic characters. 13. Epic Characters, how about featuring Achilles, Baba Yaga, Conan, Cu Chulainn, Elric, Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, Gandalf, Gilgamesh, Hiawatha, Iggwilv and Odysseus. Also if you are going to include Elminster for goodness sake put the entries in alphabetical order so it doesn't look like you are totally pimping him.And give them sensible builds, no Sorcerer 20/Wizard 10s or crap like that. delve into level 11 and 12 spells(for those who don't play in Faerun, where they are banned),Outside of Faerun, they never existed, so their inclusion wouldn't make sense. 12 was an arbitrary number chosen for the Realms. If you want that sort of system, don't stop there. better rules for epic play,What does that mean? 4) Epic versions of the 5-level PrCs. I'm sorry, but an Archmage, by definition, should be able to bend magic in some EPIC ways.An epic PrC is the solution for that, and it already exists--the Arcane Lord. I agree completely with their reasoning behind not making epic 5-level classes. 6) Some way (other than by relying on their Stat Bonus) for spell casters above 20th level to increase how many spells/day they getUmm... Improved Spell Capacity already exists. |
| BelRex06-12-05, 06:38 AM | I'll explain later on what I mean about better epic rules(one example would be how to determine LA for epic monster). Your last Quote, Jaerom, is from another poster Klytus. I already know about ISC :P |
| Upper_Krust06-12-05, 07:38 AM | Hey BelRex! :) Well, there are 3 pages of what we want. We need a single post to continually edit and add it as a list. Perhaps the original poster or perhaps the second could do that. Or perhaps start another thread, where the posts are limited to a single line listing what they would like. I read over the thread and compiled a quick list of everybodies suggestions. Although the past 2-3 pages have been little more than people confirming that they want to see a revised Epic Level Handbook, not about their suggestions for improving it. I personally want: The LA for all monsters in the monster manuals listed..like the planetar or solar, You mean the 'epic' LA's for the Monster Manual entries. delve into level 11 and 12 spells (for those who don't play in Faerun, where they are banned), more high CR monsters, better rules for epic play, more epic PrC's, more balanced epic feats, perhaps instructions on how to incorporate deific characters into epic play, rules for ruling an epic kingdom..etc. You get the idea. I have noted your suggestions. I'll create the new thread tomorrow - so that means people have 24 more hours to post their suggestions. Although I suppose I'll be able to update the thread once its done, but if we are going to draw the WotC bigwigs to the thread we don't want to have to say check the thread every day in case someone posts something new. Naturally we want to have the main bulk of the suggesstions ready from day one. |
| Upper_Krust06-12-05, 07:50 AM | Hey Jaerom! :) ...by the way I noted your suggestions Klytus. ;) I agree with many of UK's points, but have a few comments. Fire away! I quite like this section. I think it should be expanded. What epic feat will let a character balance on a cloud? Well there are none...none from WotC anyway. ;) However the point is, you shouldn't have to be a 50th-level monk to walk on water, or an 80th-level monk to walk on clouds. This is something that can be handled much better via feats than skills. I'd add to this that a number of non-evil DvR 0 creatures would be very nice. It was weird there were no actual good aligned epic monsters. Don't forget Sigil. Explain it from the point of view of epic characters. Indeed. And give them sensible builds, no Sorcerer 20/Wizard 10s or crap like that. Often single classed epic characters work better (or even single class and one prestige class). I mean Elminster is just a total mess, Mordenkainen was a much 'cleaner' character. |
| Klytus06-12-05, 09:23 AM | An epic PrC is the solution for that, and it already exists--the Arcane Lord. I agree completely with their reasoning behind not making epic 5-level classes. I'm obviously missing the book which has this Epic PrC. Where does one find it? Umm... Improved Spell Capacity already exists. But this only gives you spell slots beyond your normal maximum. I'm talking about a way to get more spell slots for all of the non-epic spells levels; something with a little more punch than the Extra Spell Slot feat which gives you one extra spell slot a pop. |
| Upper_Krust06-12-05, 12:38 PM | Hey Klytus! :) I'm obviously missing the book which has this Epic PrC. Where does one find it? I think its in Dragon Magazine #297 or something like that. But this only gives you spell slots beyond your normal maximum. I'm talking about a way to get more spell slots for all of the non-epic spells levels; something with a little more punch than the Extra Spell Slot feat which gives you one extra spell slot a pop. Well you could always use them for heightened spells of lower levels. |
| Upper_Krust06-13-05, 12:33 PM | Hey all! :) Okay, I have collated the information and I will create the new thread shortly. It will contain the general top ten things people want to see in a revised epic level handbook, as well as a seperate top ten of my own comments in a different colour. |
| green_yawgmoth06-14-05, 01:30 AM | An epic PrC is the solution for that, and it already exists--the Arcane Lord. Where is this located? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif |
| Jaerom Darkwind06-14-05, 02:05 AM | Where is this located? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gifDRAGON 297, the epic issue. The only DRAGON I ever bought, actually--and well worth it. You can still order it from Paizo.com. I think that all of those PrCs should be in any Expanded Epic Level Handbook. |
| CthulhuRyleh06-15-05, 01:26 AM | oh yeah what else would i be doing on this thread..... (signs) |
| Alistaire06-17-05, 07:32 PM | /sign I loved the original Epic system, though it broke around level 40 for my group. |
| nijineko06-18-05, 01:07 AM | i would like to see more epic material. and i would like to see existing material harmonized with the epic material and concepts... or at least web material released updating all the existing publications with the epic rules. epic insights was very nice as well. more please! |
| barista8806-20-05, 01:56 AM | I've been playing since I was knee-high to a svirfneblin, and have grown up with the various updates to the old faithful D&D. Heck, I was serving in Okinawa with the USMC when 2nd Ed came out, and I was getting my new PHB the day that AAFES got it. Having played 1st level more times than I care to remember, I really enjoy facing off with the monsters at higher levels. I'd love to run a campaign at epic level. Unfortunately, I don't have the time now to devote to putting adventures together from scratch. I'm married, looking to buy a house and have kids. D&D gets one night of play a week, and another night to work on it (if I'm lucky). Updating the Epic Level Handbook to 3.5, as well as coming out with some full adventures would really help flesh out my game and raise my interest in spending more time putting things together. |
| Procopius06-25-05, 03:53 PM | 3 new books to expand the Epic levels and to update the rules to 3.5 would be great! Also maybe work on the very expensive and odd Epic spell system, it kinda boggles the brains of the groups I have been in. |
| Kallentide07-07-05, 11:06 PM | I would like to sign this petition! I would love to have an expanded Epic Book! ~need more spells~ |
| Chemlak07-08-05, 11:47 AM | New epic! Yes, please. Need more Epic Prestige Classes, Fixed Epic Spells and fixed pricing for Epic magic items. Bring it on. |
| rbrt_Spade07-08-05, 11:57 AM | die epic level-play is unbalanced-they have a conversion guide for epic to 3.5 a battle at l25 should not take 2 hours and a l9 spell damage 20d6 epic 400d6 what? |
| Edymnion07-08-05, 03:41 PM | I wouldn't call myself an Epic junky, but I would indeed like to see a Complete Epic, or something along those lines. |
| strenoth07-08-05, 03:44 PM | Vote me In! *signs petition* |
| Aerys Targaryen07-08-05, 11:44 PM | Epic levels are fun! *Signs the Petition* |
| Puritan1307-09-05, 05:33 AM | /sign I'm in. |
| qlawdat07-09-05, 07:53 AM | Signed |
| jktrondarr07-10-05, 02:28 AM | i'd love to see a new epic lvl sourcebook (emphasis on new & not just a 3.5 update of the old one). |
| Prak, the Mad07-11-05, 03:16 AM | I'd love to see new epic material. Beyond that, I'd love to see support for more than 40th level, because epic material for a 50th level character is like weapon focus for a 40th level character, piddling. Yes Wotc, print more epic stuff! |
| green_yawgmoth07-11-05, 06:54 PM | I would really like to see the mid 30s-mid 40s developed a hell of a lot more than they are. Once you hit 35 there's about a dozen creatures left that are a higher CR than your level. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif |
| Paladin200407-12-05, 04:11 PM | You all have my vote :D |
| spike8110107-12-05, 04:21 PM | I would really like to see the mid 30s-mid 40s developed a hell of a lot more than they are. Once you hit 35 there's about a dozen creatures left that are a higher CR than your level. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Even a bunch of heavily templated creatures would be nice. It takes quite some time to apply templates to creatures depending on the template. Paragon and psudonatural especially. More epic level templates would be great too. |
| Udnamtam07-20-05, 11:50 PM | /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign /sign there's a party at my house, and they're all signing. i promise . . . |
| cryblsaj07-21-05, 02:04 AM | I would definitely shell out 40$+ for a new Epic hardcover. Actually, I'd prefer the 'Epic Player's Handbook, Epic Dungeon Master's Guide, and Epic Monster Manual', but my WotC senses tell me that this is more than highly unlikely, and that a single, large comprehensive Revised Epic Level Handbook would be more realistic. My thoughts on content: 1) Revised epic spellcasting system. When the nicest term that someone has used about the system is 'clunky'....something is wrong. 2) Tons of revised and NEW epic feats, magic items and MONSTERS. Gots ta have them monstas! 3) Follow-up supporting material. By this I mean continue to support epic level play in the new sourcebooks that WotC releases. It was a nice surprise to see the newer books containing information on epic progressions for the new base classes (Lecroix Dreadgrin, my epic warmage, thanks you much MWU HA HA HA :D ). |
| Angrymartian07-24-05, 01:45 AM | I don't have time to develop epic material and monsters, and if someone else wanted to do it for me (ie WotC) I'd defianetly pay for their troubles. |
| Malakant07-24-05, 02:32 AM | More epic please! |
| themasterrahl07-24-05, 03:50 AM | Wow, how did I miss this thread? I would definitely like to see more epic support, including an Expanded Epic Level Handbook and the resurrection of Epic Insights. |
| Sean the Metamage07-24-05, 04:08 AM | Yes, an Expanded Epic Handbook would be excellent, with epic monsters, revised epic spell rules, and more epic prestige classes. And of course, epic feats. Please. Please. ... |
| Ulitharid Lord07-24-05, 08:57 AM | Signed |
| Lyinginbedmon07-24-05, 09:13 AM | :D With my most favourite character being 68th Level, and his daughter being 32nd, you count on me to create multiple aliases to sign with :fight!: |
| CRGreathouse07-24-05, 09:27 AM | I'll sign the petition. I would definitely shell out 40$+ for a new Epic hardcover. Actually, I'd prefer the 'Epic Player's Handbook, Epic Dungeon Master's Guide, and Epic Monster Manual', but my WotC senses tell me that this is more than highly unlikely, and that a single, large comprehensive Revised Epic Level Handbook would be more realistic. I'd like to see an Epic Player's Handbook (feats, epic class progressions, epic prestige classes, epic skill uses, etc.) and an Epic DM Guide (magic items, revised spell seed system, monsters). |
| TheLash07-24-05, 10:07 AM | I will sign, with no problem. |
| Shandrakor07-24-05, 01:24 PM | Signed |
| Red_Bird_of_Chaos07-24-05, 06:17 PM | i would definitely like to see a 3.5 edition of the epic level handbook and a 3.5 version of the epic SRDs |
| veekie07-25-05, 01:22 AM | /signed |
| Sierra07-25-05, 07:53 AM | /signed |
| st76207-27-05, 03:25 PM | I would be very happy to see a new epic book, but do us all a favor and fix spellcasting at epic level. |
| NexH07-27-05, 05:01 PM | /signed |
| CRGreathouse07-28-05, 09:28 PM | Here are my thoughts on what would make a successful formula for a 3.5 version of the Epic Level Handbook. 1. Retain the 320 page size, but change the text density to match the Core Rulebooks. In my estimation this would probably 'create' an extra 60-70 pages. This would be nice. I'd prefer two ~256 page books with high text density, though. 2. Keep the infinite scaling of class progressions, but have some examples of the core classes fully fleshed out to perhaps 50th-level. I thionk that would be a waste of space. I don't reven think they need charts at all for the base class extentions, let alone to 50th level. 3. Have illustrations for all the New Epic Prestige Classes (Perhaps include the Epic Prestige Classes that appeared in Dragon Magazine a few years back as well). That would be nice. 4. Abandon (or at least condense) the Epic Skills. They simply don't add very much. Balancing on a cloud is very cool, but its something Monks should be able to do (via epic feats) long before they can meet a balance DC of 120. Not to mention its something wizards can do better at 5th-level. Aaugh, no! Please, no! I want to see the epic skill uses expanded, not condensed. This was one of the better sections of the book. 7. With regards Epic Adventuring the one thing I have to point out is that the challenge ratings are totally broken at epic levels and yes I can prove it. ;) http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=132991&page=2 From experience I've found them to work quite well, actually. 8. Epic Magic Items chapter I though was one of the worst of the book. This needs a miracle spell cast on it, as there was a severe lack of imagination throughout. Also the artifacts were so feeble it was embarrassing, make sure they are suitably 'epic'. 9. Epic Monsters, more of the same please (although I don't, by that, mean four, five and six-headed Sirrushes). An extra 30 or so monsters would be fantastic. The only advice here is be careful of 'silly' details like why does the Sirrush have an Intelligence 35, why does the Colossal Ha-Naga have Strength 27, why does the Colossal Xixecal only deal 2d8 damage with its slams when the Huge Behomoth Gorilla deals 4d8!? Could the Hunefer be a Template? Could the Mithral and Adamantine Golems be made interesting with some actual unique abilities. I'm with you here on those. 10. Give the epic organisations at least one fully fleshed out member. I remember the Infernal Assassin they had in Dragon Magazine - that was cool. I would have prefered fewer organizations and less sample members, since I'd prefer to make my own. I recognize that some people will want thee, though, so I suppose this would be fine. 11. Not sure at all about Union. Condense it and give us a few pages on each of the Planar Metropolises, like the City of Brass, Tu-nareth and Ilkkool Rrem as mentioned in the sidebar of the ELH. They all sound much more interesting. 12. Kerleths Tower was not a great or memorable adventure. No memorable encounters or NPCs. My suggestion would be for two adventures of about 30 pages each. One for 30th-level characters the other for 60th-level characters (yes 60th), also make sure they feature memorable villains. One of the adventures could be an update of previous edition adventures such as the Throne of Bloodstone or the Queen of the Demonweb Pits. As above, I have no use for the adventure or city since i'm making my own. If it has value to others, great, but it's wasted space to me. A 60th-level adventure has no place in the ELH; it has no real support, as written, for levels above 40. This would be a fine thing for third-party supplements to cover, though. ;) 13. Epic Characters, how about featuring Achilles, Baba Yaga, Conan, Cu Chulainn, Elric, Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, Gandalf, Gilgamesh, Hiawatha, Iggwilv and Odysseus. Also if you are going to include Elminster for goodness sake put the entries in alphabetical order so it doesn't look like you are totally pimping him. Thats all I can think of at the moment. Any comments? Famous epic NPCs are worthless to me, just more wasted paper. |
| aharumazda07-29-05, 04:09 AM | /signed Hopefully, WotC will be able to sync the epic and the divine rules. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels07-29-05, 04:22 AM | Hopefully, WotC will be able to sync the epic and the divine rules. That might be a pipe dream, but it would be nice, certainly. I'd buy a revised faiths & pantheons or Deities and Demigods with all the new epic rules and relevant 3.5 updates. Oh well, I'll have to settle for all that work being done on the FR boards (who are doing something to that effect for the FR gods.) Dicefreaks I think has their own revised stuff - I know they've updated the lords of the nine and the demon lords. I guess that'll have to do until WotC does the same and corrects the horrendous mistake of making the demon lords, devil lords, and paragons CR 20~32 instead of 60+ - like they're supposed to be. ... sigh.... I guess I can't have everything. |
| Jaerom Darkwind07-29-05, 09:55 AM | Dicefreaks I think has their own revised stuff - I know they've updated the lords of the nine and the demon lords. I guess that'll have to do until WotC does the same and corrects the horrendous mistake of making the demon lords, devil lords, and paragons CR 20~32 instead of 60+ - like they're supposed to be.Dicefreaks has also rebuilt the divine rules, and statted every deity in DDG and F&P, plus many many more. Our revisions were what inspired the poster on the FR boards to attempt the same. |
| HighCouncilorSeven07-29-05, 01:49 PM | I think that we're going to have to keep looking to DF for new epic material, though. WotC doesn't seem to care much about us. Still, the more brains we have working on Epic material, the better for all gamers. Let's hope WotC gets the message this thread is sending, and starts printing truely new epic material. |
| Melanos07-29-05, 02:16 PM | Absolutely! I just registered to this board because it would be great to see a balanced and updated ELH. Some of the Prestige Classes in the first one was awesome, and I would love to see more work done on epic spellcasting. |
| Kain Darkwind07-29-05, 02:21 PM | /signed. I would certainly buy an expanded Epic 3.5 book. I would like the following in it. An multitude of monsters from CR 30-45. This is where epic level play begins to take off from high standard, and where the monsters of the MMs start to wane in challenge. A Great Wyrm can still challenge a 30th level character, but beyond that, they are fodder. I DON'T want a huge selection of CR 21-30....we already have them in most of our books. Lots of high epic monsters. CRs 50-70. An attempt to LA the more powerful creatures of the MM, alongside ones for the epic monsters. Pit fiend, solar, Titan....give it an honest shot. An attempt to CR the DvR system. Yeah, harsh, I know. Try it anyways. More unique magic item traits. The ones listed are just amped versions of what we already have. Dare I say it....overhaul the epic spellcasting system. The job done with the psionics was so unbelievably fantastic, I have faith in you. (Despite the fact that my book was attached to my book cover upside down....) And feats. Take it a little farther...especially for the melee based characters. Mages have all these cool things, from multispells, to auto-metamagic, to epic spellcasting....fighter class characters have almost nothing. There doesn't need to be a setting, although a few brief overviews might be nice. And finally....drop the stupid epic assassin art and get the guy who did the Epic Blackguard to do one how it should be. |
| Syrkres07-29-05, 02:49 PM | I would love to see some good EPIC material. First, Updated EPIC feats, classes, skills, yeah lots have been, here and there, but not a complete reference. It would be nice to have lots of references for epic skill DCs. Second, not 100% sure, I sort of like th EPIC spell casting, but on the same hand I don't. it's a mixed bag. I guess I'm saying if someone could come up with a better one I would more than willing to open up to it. Because with Extended spell slots and such you now have things that are spell levels above 9th level, yet you have EPIC spells, which have no level. Really doesn't make sense. Third, always use more EPIC monsters and templates to promote existing monsters into the EPIC levels. |
| mastergate07-29-05, 05:01 PM | /Signed |
| Jaerom Darkwind07-29-05, 06:59 PM | Ah, yes, and perhaps this goes without saying, but do your homework. If oyu decide that quickened spells are a problem in epic, find out what's causing the problem. Nerfing Automatic Quicken Spell to the point of worthlessness when Multispell was the problematic feat (see Complete Arcane) is the sort of thing to avoid at all costs. |
| The Immortal VonKat07-29-05, 07:34 PM | I must give this a hearty "hear, hear" and stamp my name onto the petition. |
| Krispieman07-29-05, 10:52 PM | /signed. And finally....drop the stupid epic assassin art and get the guy who did the Epic Blackguard to do one how it should be. Hear Hear! In fact, let him do ALL the art work! And aside from the most requested (new Epic spellcasting, more high-level monsters) I'd love to see more and new unique magical items. Not just stuff that's enhanced from pre-Epic, but really new stuff. Just my 2 cp. K-man :cool: |
| Kvantum07-30-05, 04:18 PM | Psionics, another frequently maligned rules set of D&D is getting a new book next year (Complete Psionic) so what about us Epic fans? 3e D&D was supposed to be about removing limitations, not leaving them in place! Why should character advancement stop at level 20? |
| rbrt_Spade07-30-05, 04:35 PM | i vote no on new epic books-epic play is crazy-spells level 9 dam.-24d6-200d6 :confused: -battles take hours and things just are crazy |
| Jaerom Darkwind07-30-05, 05:05 PM | i vote no on new epic books-epic play is crazy-spells level 9 dam.-24d6-200d6 :confused: -battles take hours and things just are crazyThen don't buy the new epic book. There's no reason for WotC not to publish one for the rest of us. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels07-30-05, 07:48 PM | i vote no on new epic books-epic play is crazy-spells level 9 dam.-24d6-200d6 :confused: -battles take hours and things just are crazy well, that's why we want a new epic book - to streamline everything so battles don't take hours to complete. As far as 24d6-200d6, the limitations of epic spellcasting means that making a jump that quick to make as spell that powerful would probably mean that it has a very heavy cost - lots of backlash and/or exp loss. Besides, it'd be an epic spell. Epic spells should have an epic effect to it. |
| naex08-01-05, 08:49 PM | I want it... and start publishing epic spells that characters can use, not with DC's in the 150+ range |
| Jaerom Darkwind08-01-05, 10:56 PM | I want it... and start publishing epic spells that characters can use, not with DC's in the 150+ rangeDC 150 is doable in the high 30s. That's certainly a playable level. |
| Weiser_Cain08-01-05, 11:44 PM | You can count me in, in fact I need a new epic level handbook to complete my core books. |
| Acs08-02-05, 02:49 PM | I think that it would be very cool! More monsters, feats, etc. |
| centurion_karon08-06-05, 10:47 PM | Signed. |
| Barron08-07-05, 11:50 AM | Here Here! consider my vote a overzeaulous "YES!" |
| Emrys the Nightshade08-07-05, 11:56 AM | I say they just hire Serge and the DICE and let them handle it, but seeing as there isn't a snowball's chance in Phelegethos of that, consider this signed. |
| Belial the Leveler08-07-05, 11:57 AM | signed |
| Kaelas Bloodstorm08-07-05, 04:34 PM | Signed |
| LordKandis08-07-05, 04:58 PM | /Signed. |
| Alhesander08-07-05, 05:16 PM | I'd enjoy seeing a new ELH for 3.5. Consider this signed |
| Aurelius08-07-05, 05:34 PM | Signed |
| I_am_an_undead08-08-05, 12:39 PM | Signed |
| Myrddin Silvermane08-08-05, 12:42 PM | /Signed |
| Dinge08-08-05, 05:30 PM | I would like to see more epic material on new material issued in the last year or two. More Psionic material would be nice. I am not crazy about no additional powers when there are epic spells. New monsters from lvl 21 to 30 and 40 to 60 would be very helpful. Epic classes revamped to 11 to 20 that were published the last 2 years.More Epic rogue and monk info given too would be nice. The possibilities are endless and I would gladly pay 40 bucks for a big new epic book. Enough Said, Dinge |
| lkj08-08-05, 05:59 PM | Have to add my voice to he mix. For what it's worth, I'm very much in favor of an updated or revamped treatment of Epic Levels. Hope it works into the business plan. AD |
| Xzoltar08-14-05, 04:16 PM | Complete Epic Will be a really nice addition to our games, after all thoses years playing the same characters and having to "create" our rules because Epic Handbook dont cover everything epic... Anyway, sure Im for it and will buy it Specially if you redone the epic spellcasting system... |
| TheDarkestOfAngels08-14-05, 10:15 PM | Specially if you redone the epic spellcasting system... I really hope that they don't completely redo the epic spellcasting system. I hope that they keep the current system and revise it with more concise rules and perhaps more seeds, more ways to enhance these seeds, more and different types of normal factors and mitigating factors and perhaps a more explicative method of creating your own epic spells based off of spells that don't or can't be clearly defined by a certian seed or group of seeds. For example, making an epic version of the simbul's spell trigger or contingency or chain contingency can't be done at all (or at least very well) within the realm of the currently defined seeds. What I'd like to see is suggestions on how to go about using spells to make new seeds and how to go about augmenting them. Right now, there are rules for making spells into a base seed with a set, base DC, but making it more akin to an epic spells requires a lot more ad-hoc'ing and guesswork than what should probably be necessary. But I don't want them to completely redo epic spellcasting because I don't think it should be necessary to go back and redefine all these epic NPCs, PCs, etc. - I think it should be compatable so only a minimum, if any, modification from old material is necessary. |
| EvilLego08-15-05, 09:56 PM | More epic goodness is a must! |
| CorranH08-16-05, 11:33 PM | Add my name to the list. |
| Shariell08-17-05, 04:12 AM | If not an entire brand new manual, tt least the return of the epic column in the wizard's website. Count me in! |
| MegamanX91908-19-05, 09:11 AM | That would be sweet to have a new Epic Handbook. Hopefully, it will clear up so things. |
| smitipogra08-21-05, 04:27 PM | I also like the idea of a 3.5 epic level handbook. One thing I'd like to see done is for the epic spellcasting/manifesting system. I'd like to see a section on how to use existing spells/powers as seeds and not just the ones they provided. Also, it'd be nice to see the epic progression of all of the base classes from the four completes, the PHB, and the expanded pisonics handbook (what would an epic warlock look like?). I totally agree with getting a new epic level handbook or handbooks). |
| Decree Of Boredom08-21-05, 05:24 PM | igned-Say |
| Disciple of Darkness08-22-05, 11:32 AM | Signed as well. It would be nice, indeed, to officially revise Lords of the Nine and other paragon beings to truly be Epic adversaries, not something infernals eat for breakfast. I'm working on some revisions concerning that and divine rules, but official revisions would be well appreciated. |
| Kothardarastrix08-22-05, 06:15 PM | I want epic-level half-fiend/celestial/ dragon templates |
| dmchucky6908-22-05, 08:47 PM | Cool, I finally found my password; I've been wanting to sign this thread for the last few months! Consider me absolutely signed up for this! I love Epic; I love the Realms; and I love Bruce Cordell (in a strictly plutonic way BTW!) 3.5 Epic is a must! 3 books or 1 really monster book; just do it! Chuck A |
| Bob the Great08-25-05, 09:35 AM | ooooooh. Epiiiic haaaaandbooooook. Tell you what. Make it so a level 40 wizard and his followers cant destroy the world with one spell (Believe me, ive done the math, its quite possible) and id be willing to pay $ 60+ |
| Graah08-25-05, 10:46 AM | I wish they had published the first epic handbook now (and not sooner). Some characters in a campaign in which I DM, have actually reached 19th level, and might even reach epic levels! :cheer: The campaign started immediately when D&D 3.0 PHB came out... :rolleyes: And now and then on these forums people say they're playing, like, 80th level characters. Started from 1st level, of course. :thinks: |
| skywyze08-26-05, 12:08 AM | I'd like to see PrCs that are roughly the same power level as the void incarnate since most other epic PrCs suck, mechanically speaking. Regardless, add my name to the list. |
| AcidAngel08-26-05, 02:37 AM | I so in agreement, put my name down x forever. Epic characters don't need gods, they literaly are them. So they might as well rework D&DG while thay are at it. |
| Malfean08-28-05, 07:28 PM | Yep more epic material is needed |
| slade_caizer08-28-05, 08:16 PM | Cool, I finally found my password; I've been wanting to sign this thread for the last few months! Consider me absolutely signed up for this! I love Epic; I love the Realms; and I love Bruce Cordell (in a strictly Platonic way BTW!) 3.5 Epic is a must! 3 books or 1 really monster book; just do it! Chuck A Strictly Platonic, eh? So mildly homosexual and involving adolescent boys? :uh-huh: :D Anyway, let the epic-level madness spread to 3.5! It's been a long wait. |
| The Serge708-29-05, 10:32 AM | Been meaning to vote for a while. Gods know we need a revised one. |
| Razz08-29-05, 11:13 AM | My vote is in. More epic material please! Especially for the new classes released recently (Ninja, Swashbuckler, etc.) |
| VolkorTheRed08-29-05, 11:24 AM | Count me in too. We desperatley need some good rework of epic material, as well as some good epic adventures. |
| saucercrab08-29-05, 06:43 PM | Here's my John Hancock. |
| Frukathka08-29-05, 11:08 PM | Bring it on. |
| cop_killa08-30-05, 01:29 AM | I want a nice thick meaty tome on epic stuff. Something for all the classes in the Complete series, and metric craploads of other stuff for the original classes. Maybe even an entire campaign setting that would be tailored for characters of at least 15th level. An even greater amount of epic monsters (because face it, your 43rd level party isn't going to face a prismatic dragon in a cramped dungeon and you will disembowel yourself before you make another monster or NPC) would do wonders. Count me in. |
| Doomikov09-01-05, 02:55 AM | An epic version of the three core books would be amazing. I know my entire group would dish out the cash for those. But right now I'd settle for just one epic book. |
| Jaerom Darkwind09-01-05, 05:02 PM | In case anyone's interested, there's a related poll going on at EN World. The topic is what book people would be most interested in seeing a revision of. The ELH is currently leading the pack at 52%. Everyone who posted here should go vote there, too--this sort of thing also get's WotC's attention. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=145691 |
| Ob_Deamon09-01-05, 05:29 PM | Ya have my vote. Updated epic material is a must (especially the spell system) |
| Rek009-01-05, 06:31 PM | Count me in on the petition as well. Whatever they end up doing, new epic material is a must. |
| Kolmik09-05-05, 10:01 PM | Add me to the "I want more epic books list" |
| Retsej Esiw09-05-05, 10:25 PM | I need my epic fix! |
| B-L-Zebub09-09-05, 04:33 PM | Count me in... I really hope this will get to something, a revised ELH would be great. |
| Irien09-10-05, 11:06 PM | Sign me up! Fix some of the silly stuff (like HUGE RITUAL SPELLS or hecatoncheires bein CR 57) and update 3.5 and add some new stuff and BINGO!!!!!!WOO ehhhh clam downs,,,,, llate at nigth. the amborsias lkacin. |
| Zarthrax09-12-05, 02:02 PM | Also signed. Would, for myself, prefer to see the epic trilogy of books (EPH, EDMG, EM) however unlikely it would be. |
| Xzavyr09-16-05, 02:53 AM | Just realised I had never signed this, after promoting it in the "Future Releases" forum. :looloo: Signed. |
| Von Bek09-16-05, 05:42 AM | Also signed. |
| Mattaglor_of_Thay09-16-05, 02:24 PM | I would love to a set of epic books like EPHB,EDMG,EMM. It would be the tip of the iceberge and then later add more epic monsters in future monster manuals. I also like the idea some had about an Epic/Deities book for charaters that have assended to godhood. I myself am working own D20 campaign that I hope to publish in the future that is playable to all lvls espicially epic characters. |
| VanColen09-16-05, 02:57 PM | Adding another signature to the list... |
| bastrak09-17-05, 05:45 AM | Me too. |
| ShotgunSaint09-17-05, 04:01 PM | I'd totally shell out for some new epic books... maybe just two, a Complete Epic for the players and an Epic Monster Manual for the DM, maybe including stats for the Archdevils, Greater Demons, Five Companions, etc. so that there are some Powers left by the time my characters reach 40th level :) That said, I usually end up advancing monsters (the Paragon Template is a gods-send! Owlbears are challenging again!), or making NPC's, so the epic monsters aren't SO pressing. Definitely something needs to be done about Epic Spellcasting... my players are all late 20s to mid 30's in level, and I haven't seen ONE epic spell thrown out. As rugged a crew of power gamers as I run, that says something. Also, more specifics on mixing epic and non-epic magic items (or upgrading existing ones to Epic). |
| Morannon10-02-05, 07:00 PM | Count me and my entire gaming crew in as well. I'm needling them to sign onto the boards and speak for themselves. |
| Sang-Drax10-12-05, 11:20 PM | A revised ELH would be nice, but I'd be happy with the return of Epic Insights. |
| Lord_Yy10-17-05, 12:30 AM | I sign! I request more epic-level stuff! Particularly epic-level rules that don't make multiclassing a lot less useful. |
| Arkhnathil10-22-05, 08:53 PM | I've learned through creating some of nine different Lv 100+ epics, that it is hard to make a character without pile-it-on type creation. Pease help me break/make new rules! Signed, wholeheartedly. |
| VampiricBloodlustNemesis10-22-05, 09:43 PM | i see an increasing need in my campaigns for epic material, since my PCs have become literal GodSlayers. |
| Andaren10-24-05, 08:44 PM | I'd buy it, even if it was just an update on the old material, but there'd be much joy and happiness if there was more material added. |
| Diplominator10-25-05, 12:47 AM | My name is Diplominator and I approved this message. |
| Telathidar_Mhaelin10-25-05, 11:55 AM | print it and i will buy it- especially if you update epic spellcasting and the gods, and include content for very high levels (50+). epic is the best thing that ever happened to D&D- lets make it even better!!!!!!! :twocents: |
| 75RD Drum Clip10-25-05, 04:56 PM | I would be very interested in an updated ELH, so long as it is proofread and play tested to avoid tons of errata. |
| Michael Silverbane10-25-05, 05:05 PM | Sign me up for this! I'd love to see a new epic level book (or two... or three). Later silver |
| kensai21610-26-05, 09:31 AM | Man oh man I would love to buy an Expanded Epic Handbook!!!! :love: :love: |
| Annaylli10-27-05, 01:42 PM | Would like to see Expanded Epic material. |
| Necroninja10-27-05, 02:12 PM | Must....... Have........ New........ Epic........ Books......... |
| vardock10-28-05, 12:09 PM | WE WANT MORE!!!!!!!! we also need a revised system for the Factors. and new and revised mitigating factors. since you can give up a level to loose 120dc but loosing experience gets you -200dc. unbalenced much. |
| Rabid Dire Wolverine10-28-05, 04:19 PM | Don't think it will happen, but I'm all for it :w00t: |
| Lord Mhoram10-30-05, 05:28 PM | I'm in. |
| overelemental10-30-05, 09:00 PM | Since it's late here, I won't say anything clever, just sign the petition and hope they'll make some new and updated epic content. Another book would be first on by buy-list for next year |
| sandskimmer10-31-05, 10:47 PM | I vote for an Expanded Epic Level Handbook with more monters, more magic, and better (more balanced) game mechanics. The epics spell rules needs tweeking and giving more epic class abilities to existing classes would be nice too. |
| Dark Realm10-31-05, 11:27 PM | Being a big fan of ELH, I think I have to post on this thread. I would love to see epic made into real epic books. for the new addition. I can’t stand the half effort that is being put into the Complete books in regards to epic. Epic Players Handbook: - All the core classes being made much more streamlined and taken from 21's level up to 60th level. I think the way classes increased in level in the ELH was just broken. I would really like to see the Epic core classes made like the normal 1-20th classes. - I would like to see the spell casting make more sense. I like the fact that seeds are there however the DC checks for spells are way to high and many of the seeds seem very underpowered (can’t even make a 2nd edition Time Stop even if you were a 30th level wizard.) I would also like to see Epic spell casters get spells as they gain level like normal wizards do. Over all, Lets see a major fix on the epic spell casting - New epic equipment, character development ideas and Role play ideas for player characters. Epic Dungeon Masters Guide: - This should be a look at how epic characters effect a DM’s world. How do they help/damage a world etc - How to Run an Epic Campaign, along with story ideas and adventure hooks. - New Magic items of true epic power. I would also like a too see some feats in the Epic DMG like Craft Artifact etc. Epic Monsters Manual: - Lets see a 200 page book of 20th level monsters up to 100th level. New Templets along with bringing back the power of some of toned down (errata 3.5) monsters like the Demilich. - Lets see damage reduction fixed for epic. I don’t think that once you get an epic sword, you can hit any epic monster. If WotC would come out with 3 books, (Epic Players, Epic DMG and Epic MM) I would easily spend $150 on them tomorrow if they were true books and not 160 page flip books. You have My Vote for new epic books. :thumbsup: |
| savant_warlord1311-02-05, 10:09 PM | My level 78 druid is getting really bored, he keeps fighting the same stuff over and over again! |
| Klytus11-03-05, 10:46 AM | SLightly off topic: I've noticed some 3rd party product that have non-epic character progression up to 25th-level (and have heard of some that go to 30th). Does anybody have any experience with that? |
| BelRex11-03-05, 11:39 AM | I think you are talking about Monte Cooks version of the PHB, I haven't actually read his new stuff in depth. It does sound interesting though... |
| Noyoko11-06-05, 07:45 PM | sign |
| Sun Krigo11-07-05, 10:20 PM | Sun Krigo approves... |
| vardock11-08-05, 01:26 PM | maybe an EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK II like the dungeon masters guide II |
| akiskyd11-09-05, 05:36 AM | WE NEED NEW EPIC STUFF NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! ALSO -Update ELH and DDg to 3.5E -Update gods, arch-fiends, celestial paragons to Epic Play -More Epic Psionic stuff. -Powerful foes. CR 50 and up (take a look at Shadows & Light from sword & sorcery). |
| Knight of Ravens11-09-05, 12:42 PM | 3.5 could definitely use an epic-only book, particularly a book that emphasizes balanced progression through the epic levels. Though the first ELH is a somewhat worthy book (for its time and design philosophy), the rules for adventure design, treasure disbursement, and challenge ratings are especially (in my opinion) what need to be addressed. For example, the number of arguments over the balance between different parties constructed by different groups. When the line blurs on the power level between a 25th level party and a 35th lvel party, there needs to be some guidelines. Even in epic play, there should be more difference between epic characters. |
| ·oracle·of·truth·11-13-05, 05:47 PM | *sign* |
| Mesraic11-13-05, 09:40 PM | im all for the core books players handbook, DMg and monster maual having epic versions released, id pay around 50 for those |
| Kobold_Ur_Priest11-13-05, 09:49 PM | there should be a complete book of ALL classes/prestige classes and one of all monsters much like the Spell Compendium, but all updated to 3.5 |
| Prak, the Mad11-13-05, 10:25 PM | yeah, WotC has waited far too long to do a new epic book, not only do they need to update, they should put in enough stuff to make levels above 40 interesting |
| DreadWizardDM11-14-05, 09:34 AM | Epic level PHB Epic level DMG Epic level PrC guide Epic book of Monsters Those would be 4 key books for a solid core. I just hope they dont nerf the living hell out of alot of the feats. Prime example would be auto quicken spell. It was waaaaayyy nerfed and ruined in CA. They should cover material from levels 21 through 50 at least. |
| synth11-15-05, 10:38 AM | New Epic Stuff! WEEEE! Oh, and more epic NPCs like in ELH 3.0 would be nice. |
| Deven Firewalker11-15-05, 02:38 PM | Lets see a new PHB, DMG, MM and a fix on epic spell casters. (lets make spells more powerful in epic) :D |
| yerren11-15-05, 04:36 PM | sign |
| Grizzled Gryphon11-16-05, 01:48 PM | Well, here is my signature. Good luck with this, but don't hold your breath. |
| slimgoodbody11-18-05, 06:38 PM | signed |
| bk_jamin11-20-05, 11:01 AM | Mainly to clarify exsiting epic 3.5 changes. To compile from FAQ and board work. |
| LosGunD11-20-05, 01:04 PM | Whole-heartedly signs the petition! Epic is where my characters truely begin to shine through. |
| Galen_Michael11-21-05, 10:38 PM | I would buy an epic sourcebook for Eberron. Galen |
| Azazel11-22-05, 01:55 AM | A 3.5 epic handbook would be great. |
| zaduma11-25-05, 08:07 AM | *Signing the petition* |
| OMAGAN11-26-05, 10:49 AM | some 3.5 epic is so needed its good theres some in everybook but the current stuff anit enough it needs a re-tune and a rev-up something like expaned psi handbook but turn it up another notch have good solid rules ,feats ,adventure building /world building guides have some savage species enhancements so balors ,dragons beholders and normal monsters which dont fit under the reagular 20 level system can come in here and stay ballanced |
| Juggernaut11-26-05, 05:03 PM | You've got my vote. With as many arms as a Hecatoncrasies There is nothing I think is greater then an epic paladin destroying the greatest of demons from 9 hells with nothing more then Positive energy aura and Planar turning. |
| Lothlorien11-27-05, 01:08 AM | I'm in. I would love to see a completely updated Epic handbook. Epic Players Handbook, Epic DMG, and Epic MM, would all be awesome. :) |
| Drithaan11-27-05, 07:33 PM | Epic Yes Says the Goat. |
| overelemental11-28-05, 07:41 PM | I'm in. I would love to see a completely updated Epic handbook. Epic Players Handbook, Epic DMG, and Epic MM, would all be awesome. :) That's the best idea I've read on these boards all week |
| Tormtar11-29-05, 06:28 PM | I really want to see more Epic resources, I can't wait for Power of Faerun. I hope that's just the beginning of more Epic books. |
| Klytus11-30-05, 08:57 AM | I really want to see more Epic resources, I can't wait for Power of Faerun. I hope that's just the beginning of more Epic books. Good Lord... the non-epic Forgotten Realms is already an over-powered Munchkin Paradise. I shudder to think at what the Epic Realms look like. |
| shmeck12-03-05, 03:48 AM | Give your customers what they want, WotC! Stand by your product and your committment to those who invested in it! Make a bunch of easy money by reworking old content! The ELH demands revision! |
| cryblsaj12-05-05, 04:17 PM | It's time for an Expanded Epic Level Handbook. If nothing else at least throw us (the fans who've posted here) a bone and let us know if there are any plans for another epic book besides the Powers of Faerun (which I will DEFINITELY be picking up btw). /signed |
| KnightRanger12-06-05, 03:41 PM | My group would love to have a 3.5 Epic Handbook. That would rawk!! |
| Lord_of_Omnipotence12-06-05, 06:48 PM | More support for epic prestige classes would be excellent. We seriously need an official epic thrallherd build. |
| Paroseme12-07-05, 11:23 PM | Seeing as I can't really add too much to what has been said, I shall just say "We -need- a 3.5 Epic Level Handbook!" Seriously. My players have been stuck at 20th level, lost in the wilderness of possibility, their experience pools running dry from the lack of updated material. Some have even chosen "xp suicide", finding level-draining undead just to use some other new, non-epic, material to try out. 'Tis a sad state of affairs. Surely Wizards has some compassion for my plight? |
| jpat9312-08-05, 12:17 AM | I've never played epic before, but I'd be intrigued enough to give a revised ELH a purchase. |
| firduvin12-08-05, 01:14 AM | We need more epic material, i was resentful that epic insights went away |
| ramzafft112-08-05, 06:33 PM | I'm all for more Epic Material! It's too hard to scour it down bit by bit! |
| Anodai12-11-05, 09:21 PM | Count me IN |
| Dionon12-15-05, 08:45 AM | ... I'm with ya all the way! I love epic stuff, and would like to see more of it. Epic Player's Handbook would be great Epic DM's Guide Epic Monster Manual too! Perhaps an Epic Complete Series :D One thing that HAS to be fixed, and fixed well is Epic Spellcasting... Also a note to DnD PUT BACK THE LOWER LEVEL SPELLCREATION STATISTICS FROM TOME AND BLOOD! I was so ticked off when I didn't see them in the Complete Arcane... Yeah, that's my opinion Hootrah Go Epic Stuffs! :cheer: :w00t: :bounce: |
| konrad_the_tall12-15-05, 09:49 AM | YEH! More epic stuff! My +8 keen holy chaotic bastard sword of ass kickery lusts for blood!!! |
| akiir12-15-05, 11:09 AM | yeah i am in more epic stuff would be great more creativity for everbody once you hit above 20th level would be good with some new material |
| darklogic12-16-05, 03:30 AM | signed |
| Degobah12-17-05, 05:06 AM | Signed. Another Epic handbook would be great. Ok my opinions -keep epic spellcasting as ritual magic. Reduce the cost of adding extra seeds and fix the loopholes for mitigating factors. -have an epic spell system that lets characters create new spells (not just metamagic spells) for 10th-level-plus spell slots. Probably working something like Augmentation for psionics (I made a system for this ages back myself). -Give the fighters back their BAB. By 40th currently monks hit more often than fighters against high-AC opponents, since they have more attacks at the highest bonus. Not to mention how the wizards own everything -Get a new and better setting maybe. Planar only works if you like planar. I quite liked the old basic rules and use the city of Pandius myself. Of the existing planar locations the City of Brass is better than (ugh) Union. Maybe set it up so the GM can let their game keep going in the same campaign world and just expand through occasional planar travel, spelljamming, a hidden underground world, cataclysm, secret epic organization wars, time travel, or whatever. -Redo the deity system so characters can reach an even footing with the gods. |
| metatheurgist12-18-05, 09:25 AM | Signed. Definitely revise the current material, it's overdue. More game mechanical information, less epic settings. |
| Harry12-18-05, 11:24 AM | :w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t: I 100% agree, we need more Epic stuff!! Especially ELH updated to 3,5 . (with less broken epic spells) |
| darkwarrior4212-19-05, 04:52 AM | Signed. |
| Sir Aramil Liadon12-23-05, 02:15 AM | I don't want some 150 page thing, I want a 400+ preferably 600+ page book. I want NEW epic progressions with new abilities for all the new base classes and core classes. Some classes are greatly gimp at epic levels, they need more skill points or something. I totally wouldn't minds TWO Epic books... or three! Player's Epic Handbook Epic Dungeon Master's Guide Epic Monster Manual this. RIGHT ON!!! They really should include epic progressions for any base class they put out IN THAT BOOK! (Anyone seen an epic progression for the Swashbuckler?) If they do put out a ELH 3.5. PLEASE redo the Epic level spells system! Actual 10th 11th 12th level spells! How awsome would that be? |
| devilMonkey12-25-05, 03:56 PM | The original ELH was a great idea that needs lots of expansion and work. Put somebody to really thinking about it. Consider not only an Epic PH, DMG, and MM but also redone Deities & Demigods and archfiends. |
| Johnny Cache12-27-05, 08:03 PM | Signed. Also, I hereby give my word to buy at least one copy of each of the first five new Epic books that WotC comes out with. |
| Renark von Bek12-29-05, 02:04 AM | I would very much like to see a new epic book. I am tired of trying to update all my stuff using the faq particularly epic spellcasting (why wasn't this in the complete arcane c'mon?!?) |
| Wind12-29-05, 01:53 PM | Epic stuff!!!! Yay!!!!!!!! |
| shadow_walker2.012-29-05, 02:30 PM | I don't know if I posted hear all ready or not but hay I support new epic stuff. |
| Rocketboy1312-29-05, 04:01 PM | I like the current effort to integrate new epic stuff into various resources, but I too believe there should be at least 1 fully epic 3.5 product that rivals the Expanded psionic handbook in depth and rule revision. :D |
| bosssmiley12-31-05, 03:24 AM | Another vote for at least a "Complete Epic" sourcebook, maybe under the "Heroes of *" line. |
| Kesuk2k512-31-05, 07:54 AM | My vote is in, but what I'd prefer most is not the additional power added to classes or prestige classes. What I would want is a discussion of the true context of epic campaigns and greater discussion of the epic adventure. Great advice is given in the current epic level handbook, mainly because epics should only come into being if you have been playing a PC or DMing for such PCs long enough for them to get to the levels that the ELH describes. One issue regarding monsters: the monsters are either too insignificant of a challenge, an unbalanced challenge (all or nothing, as it were) or too great of a challenge. Many of the new features of the book relate to characters that have 30 to 40 character levels, while not enough description of levels 21 to 30. These are the crucial stages, where the character is in an awkward situation if the DM goes with the information present in the book. The character simply does not yet qualify for many of the options present. There are also problems with the epic SRD, as it still has many references to 3.0 mechanics. I'd love to see these considered for correction. |
| Jozell12-31-05, 01:18 PM | Ya we need new stuff! More epic advancements ect. Come on Wizards! Give us what we want! |
| ThatGuyThere01-02-06, 09:20 AM | I'm in for an Epic Level Handbook 3.5. I'm also in for an Epic Player's Guide, and an Epic DM's Guide. I don't think we need an "Epic Core III", though - core mechanics stay unchanged at Epic levels (that is, saves, skill checks, attack rolls, etc, are still made the same way - d20 plus bonuses), so that saves a whole lot of space. But an Epic PHB filled with Epic core classes, Epic races, Epic equipment, and some (new and useable!) Epic spells would be great. I'd also put Epic advancement for existing Prestige Classes in here. Then an Epic DMG, with Epic traps, Epic treasure, Epic encounters (including Epic monsters), Epic Experience charts, Epic prestige classes, and so forth. More Templates to epic-ify monsters. New Epic varients of existing monsters. More. More! MORE! And then, perhaps one nice hardcover a year or so, for Epic fans, detailling new monsters, some new Epic spells & feats, and so forth. That would make me Quite Happy, and probably be able to show return-on-investment for Wizards. So, yes. Some actual Epic-Level support would be nice. :D |
| jarrod_j01-02-06, 01:39 PM | Count me in!!!! I'd really like to see some epic fixing of shapechange and Antimagic field. The suggestions in the current ELH of "gee, this can be broken at epic- make some house rules" just doesn't seem to solve the problem. I'd like to see more done in the ELH II with epic traps and puzzles, as well as fixing epic feats so that non spell casters have a chance at epic levels. Let's face it, if you cannot cast spells, epic level play gets pretty lame and leaves you in the dust quickly. What feat do fighters have at epic levels that can even begin to compare to improved metamagic, automatc quicken spell, intensify, or Multispell? Epic two weapon fighting? Yeah, right. Need to balance out epic play for fighters!!!!!!!! |
| Chosen0101-05-06, 11:50 AM | Perhaps this would convince WotC that there is a market for Epic, the Immortals Handbook: Epic Bestiary (http://www.enworld.org/shop/index.php?do=bestseller=1 ) is a bestseller at Enworld! |
| Phantom01-05-06, 05:22 PM | I would buy an updared Epic Level Handbook. |
| amanodel01-05-06, 05:35 PM | NEW EPIC HANDBOOK with a new epic spell and epic power system - i would definitely buy that on the first day! |
| Jaime_Wolf01-10-06, 10:20 PM | I would buy a new epic level handbook the day it came out (assuming it wasn't a repackaging of the old one with one or two shiny new things but a comprehensive new set of epic rules that actually work WELL). I'd consider buying a few to pass out (read: sell) to friends and force them to play epic with me as well. |
| BarbeChenue01-11-06, 03:51 AM | I wouldn't just buy one new Epic Level Handbook, I'd buy three! We need updated Epic material. |
| klode_me01-12-06, 10:17 AM | Me too! Me too! !SIGNED! |
| Edea01-13-06, 08:00 PM | Here is another vote for a re-release of the ELH material. Particularly BAB and base save progression revision, and a much closer look at Epic Spellcasting. |
| trismegistus01-17-06, 11:44 AM | Here be my request for more epic. |
| Erudite_Bastich01-17-06, 07:15 PM | I'm all for it, so count me in. I'd even be one of those willing to buy three core Epic books, if they bothered to correct that whole "once you are past 20th level you need an entirely different means of progression" thing. That, and the spellcasting system could really use some rethinking. |
| nik197901-17-06, 10:49 PM | I would love to see a new set of epic books. Its the game that needs most material because of how challenging it is anyway. |
| EVILFOX01-22-06, 12:00 PM | 'im here as well please some epic material!! |
| walker_on_the_horizon01-22-06, 12:57 PM | get the epic wheels rolling. |
| KhalaKyRelai01-29-06, 11:12 AM | *signs* |
| drakoru02-06-06, 08:18 AM | If I understand weel, it's here that we can ask for more epic material. MORE MORE MORE, Please, give us the way to become more powerful!!! |
| magmer202-07-06, 01:32 PM | I would definitely pay for an updated Epic Level Handbook. |
| Hexcaliber02-09-06, 09:35 PM | I HATE the Epic handbook as is. To me, it doesn't feel very epic at all. The abilities gained, the whole weird way of doing the base attack and saves, just feels like a load of crap. Plus, the only thing that seems to make an epic character epic is the magic items. Yes my signature is on this petition, but not because I want a simple update. I want a reworking of the Epic info on an Epic scale. Like Psionic Handbook Epic. That was a good transition. Let's see Wotc repeat that! |
| Zeus-the-mighty02-11-06, 03:12 AM | I would like to see a redo of the epic material. I don't know how they would do it...but i would like to see it. (crank up the power on the martial classes too) |
| Stheory02-13-06, 10:11 PM | I would pay good money for a new and improved ELH with a working epic spell system and new material. |
| DonGnocci02-16-06, 06:29 PM | I bought the ELH for 3.0, so i'd do for 3.5. Please, produce it! |
| Kalthandrix02-17-06, 02:44 PM | Sign me up for a new Epic Level Handbook- I have wanted one since they came out with the 3.5 material and wish hey would get on it. |
| Lord Arkhaven02-17-06, 03:33 PM | Everytime a list like this one comes up I make sure to sign it. To the publishing company that publishes EVERYTHING please, publish this! |
| krynngeek02-17-06, 09:55 PM | I would so love to see the ELH to 3.5 in actual book form. I have a very high level druid and the rules are not enough in the dmg. In my group we only use 3.5 rules only so the web update does not really help, considering there are so many contradictions. |
| Bringslite02-19-06, 11:41 PM | Would love to see a 3.5 revamp of the Epic rules. I or someone in my group would buy it. Epic (balanced) play is the ultimate goal isn't it? If the fiesta is bueno no one want's it to end right? |
| CthulhuRyleh02-19-06, 11:50 PM | signed |
| 2y1y1z202-19-06, 11:50 PM | I have to say that a 3.5 ELH would make me very, very happy. The CRs and LAs of the monsters are way off, and I'd like to see a WHOLE lot more magic items and feats. |
| vorax20k02-24-06, 02:07 PM | You have another vote here! |
| speeblefreak02-25-06, 12:55 AM | I would buy The Epic Player's Handbook, The Epic Dungeon Master's Guide, and The Epic Monster Manual as soon as I could! Update to 3.5, rework the problems with the old ELH, expand hugely, and GIMME GIMME GIMME! :drool: :inlove: :drool: :inlove: :drool: :inlove: See? The smilies prove how much I want 3.5 epic handbooks! *SIGNS!* |
| Wrong02-25-06, 08:45 AM | We really need epic rules. Spellcasting and psionic epic progression are just bad. Sorcerers who spend a lot of time and money to increase their magical abilities is an example of how the present epic system is just general guidelines to keep players busy after 20th level. A player rarely chooses to play a sorcerer to spend alot of time and money to develop spells in epic levels. More money, more time, the players are kept busy. Spellcraft checks, the epic game is balanced… A better work has been done with psionics : 6 feats and you have the all the epic psionic options you need… ELH was a joke, OK, nice one ! NOW GIVE US EPIC RULES ! |
| cryblsaj03-07-06, 03:07 PM | It really can't be overstated; we need an updated and expanded Epic Level Handbook. |
| drakoru03-08-06, 05:35 AM | There's not enough matrial to play correctly an epic group of PC, and the existing rules are totally unbalanced. We need more epic PrC, a rules revision, Feats for existing PrC, appropriated settings (thanks DICEFREAKS). PLANESCAPE MUST COME BACK!!!! |
| Kolmik03-08-06, 11:55 AM | GAWDS Anything but planescape. That was so broken it wasnt funny. |
| drakoru03-09-06, 03:32 AM | Broken? I don't know what you mean, but I'm shure of one thing : there was an ambiance in sigil you'll never find anywhere else. |
| Tormtar03-15-06, 02:11 PM | I've been DMing my current campaign since 1st level, last Friday we hit 31st level. It's been great so far, but I would love to see the rules updated to 3.5 and expanded. Right now having the Epic SRD on hand is necessary to play, since all the errata is in there. I'm also all for an Epic PH, Epic DMG and Epic MM. |
| dickthetator03-15-06, 08:10 PM | Could definitely use a rules revision, at least in terms of what happens to multiclassing into new classes after 20th. Since the BAB and Save progressions of classes (which are considered balancing factors for class abilities at each level) are thrown out after 20th, one has to question how balanced non-epic classes are. Typically toted example: 20th level fighter suddenly taking wizard levels, as opposed to a 20th level wizard taking fighter levels. A drawback of taking a wizard level used to be slow BAB progression... but this vanishes after 20th, and thus the class suddenly becomes stronger. Er... I think everyone knows what I mean. Yeah. Need some new Epic material. And Planescape... I think we've already got pretty much everything we need to run a Planescape campaign, what with the Planar Handbook and Manual of the Planes. Just need a small book on Sigil (say, something similar to the Sharn book) and a couple more clarifications on how some planar things work (ie: How does monster summoning work with respects to the planes? 2E Planescape addressed this). Losing focus... oi. Lost train of thought... crash. |
| Bernat03-21-06, 07:28 PM | Thumbs up for 3'5 epic material! :thumbsup: |
| Azrof03-27-06, 03:28 PM | I agree loud and clear! EPIC materials on an EPICLY Epic Scale! I feel that the original Epic level handbook was done "Well" but - There's a new scale to look at (IMHO) - ala The Tome Of Magic. Whether you like the book or not, despite the errors, the book is one fine piece of work. If the new epic books were done on a similar scale, with similar looks at existant systems and created new content ...perhaps in a series of books...that would rock house. Of course, we all realize that you'd have to do Epic progressions for ALOT of things or, more simply, create rule-sets for Gms and players to create their own progressions.....but we'd pay for it! |
| DMaster4203-27-06, 05:00 PM | I am with you 100%! WOTC should definately make at least another Epic Level Handbook (but the idea of a seperate Epic Level PH, DMG, and MM is very appealing). I want to see some epic abilities, more monsters, feats, skills, and more info in general for DMs about running a good epic campaign. Count me in guys! WOTC please hear our pleas! It would be beneficial for both of us. As we have stated. |
| jgmafia103-27-06, 05:16 PM | I also agree with what everyone here is saying. There should be a book that is completely devoted Epic Level Spells. I'd buy it if there was one. There also should be more material on Epic Prestige classes. From this point on I will hunt him down with all the heart my artificial body can muster. And when I find him his death will be one he'll regret for as long as he burns eternally in Hell. |
| DMaster4203-27-06, 05:18 PM | Oh and two more things that I would love to see are more examples of Epic Adventures and more rules and guidelines on Epic Characters entering the realm of the Divine. I've tried to do both of these things, but I always felt that I just didn't hit it right or it wasn't cool enough to be truly Epic. |
| Tenebrous_Sage03-27-06, 06:29 PM | I actually started playing right after 3.5 was released, and I have been waiting for a 3.5 Epic level handbook ever since. |
| DM Aruthiat03-27-06, 06:50 PM | If I could even see another series of Epic Core Rulebooks I would whip out my debit card on the spot!!! Its time for more power to the Players!!! (and DMs :) |
| DMaster4203-28-06, 07:45 PM | I also agree with what everyone here is saying. There should be a book that is completely devoted Epic Level Spells. I'd buy it if there was one. There also should be more material on Epic Prestige classes. I second this whole-heartedly. Also, I think the level of progression in the ELH should be far greater, levels 20-60. Along with that much tougher monsters would have to come as well. |
| MoonSprite03-29-06, 01:05 PM | Please, give us a new manual (or three) of Epic Level!! nuff said. |
| Poder Miserável03-29-06, 05:51 PM | yeah, more epic material would be more than welcome :D |
| DMaster4204-01-06, 06:58 AM | As I said before, epic level abilities would be nice for all the classes. I mean, you do get the feats, but those don't come every level. Also just about anyone can get them at Epic Level (unless you have to have a certain class feature). Some of the feats are pretty easy to attain, and all they do is ehance ablities the character already has. The only things that go up at epic level are abilities that increase (like spells and rages/day), but nothing ever gets more powerful without a feat or being a spell. That's why I would like to see some abilities dished out to epic level classes. |
| Mitton04-10-06, 03:38 AM | Another Epic Book is just absolutley nesscary. How many of us have been playing for years and are just tired of picking which type of character to play so we can best kill orcs and skeletons. We want new epic characters, PRC, monsters, items, etc. We want a supplement that can allow us to test our roleplaying abilities against our DM. Even the updated 3.5 epic book was wrong in so many ways, it didn't take into effect the change in the druid's animal companion and stuff. A new epic level compendium is definetly in order. |
| CelestialBarbarian04-11-06, 07:03 PM | I think that we're going to have to keep looking to DF for new epic material, though. WotC doesn't seem to care much about us. Who or what is DF? I'd like to add my support for a 3.5 epic book. I haven't bought any new Wizards books for quite some time now--although someone bought me Weapons of Legacy for my birthday last November--because no one of them has a "must have" feel anymore. A 3.5 epic book, however, would definitely have that "must have" feel and I'd get it straight away. |
| drakoru04-12-06, 03:37 AM | DF = Dicefreaks (http://dicefreaks.com/) |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 03:55 AM | DF = Dicefreaks (http://dicefreaks.com/) Weird, there doesn't seem to be anything on that page except "Dicefreaks Coming Soon: the Dicefreaks online community and the Dicefreaks online hobby store." |
| Aelran04-12-06, 04:33 AM | Try a direct link (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/index.php)... |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 04:56 AM | Try a direct link (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/index.php)... Thanks. That took me to a Dicefreaks discussion board. But what is Dicefreaks? Is it a company that sells epic D20 products? |
| drakoru04-12-06, 05:23 AM | OUps, my link was broken... It's a community, were DnD, and particulary Epic, is discussed. They Also released free pdf document that you can download here (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88) on hell, that are named "gates of hell". That Topic (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=311) is equally very valuable to my eyes, it deals about Epic Version of existing entities... |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 05:45 AM | OUps, my link was broken... It's a community, were DnD, and particulary Epic, is discussed. They Also released free pdf document that you can download here (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88) on hell, that are named "gates of hell". That Topic (http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=311) is equally very valuable to my eyes, it deals about Epic Version of existing entities... Looks like your "oops" was broken too. :D Seriously thought, thanks. Are the gates of hell adventures, or just background details? |
| drakoru04-12-06, 05:50 AM | background details, but very interesting! |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 06:45 AM | background details, but very interesting! Thanks very much. :) |
| drakoru04-12-06, 07:52 AM | Another good link for epic ressource : immortal's handook (www.immortalshandbook.com) If you're looking for Epic ressource, I advise you to buy Epic Bestiary, and to look for the Immortal's Handbook to be released. |
| Chosen0104-12-06, 12:39 PM | Aside from the Immortal's Handbook and the epic material at Dicefreaks, I also recommend Legends of Avadnu (http://www.icirclegames.com/trueseeing_loa.html). I've read good reviews about Infinite: Epic Modern (http://www.enworld.org/shop/index.php?do=product&productid=597&source=Product%20List&internal=1) so if your into d20 modern you might want to check out that as well. Note: The WotC exit page is messing with second link. |
| mayhembynight04-12-06, 04:53 PM | I agree that there should be a 3.5 ELH. and back this thread completely. :censored: Please Give Us Epic !!!!!! Nice Idea Paul Hopebringer with the generic epic progression. I have often found myself with a charcter that I went 10 levels in a prestige class and don't want to go 11th level in the class and it defeats the purpose of the prestige to go back to your core class. so the epic mage or warrior is a good example. Keep up the good thoughts gang. Stay strong and we will win this war! :fight!: |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 05:47 PM | Aside from the Immortal's Handbook and the epic material at Dicefreaks, I also recommend Legends of Avadnu (http://www.icirclegames.com/trueseeing_loa.html). I've read good reviews about Infinite: Epic Modern (http://www.enworld.org/shop/index.php?do=product&productid=597&source=Product%20List&internal=1) so if your into d20 modern you might want to check out that as well. Note: The WotC exit page is messing with second link. Thanks for the reference! :) |
| CelestialBarbarian04-12-06, 05:48 PM | I agree that there should be a 3.5 ELH. and back this thread completely. How many threads does it take to weave a profitable book? |
| DMaster4204-13-06, 09:56 PM | How many threads does it take to weave a profitable book? Quite a few apperantly since there have been quite a few for new Epic material. |
| CelestialBarbarian04-13-06, 10:41 PM | Quite a few apperantly since there have been quite a few for new Epic material. Heh. Sadly that seems all too true. |
| DMaster4204-13-06, 11:26 PM | My question is, how many posts does it take to make a thread worthy of being a Sticky. Oh great Wiz_Os please make this thread a Sticky so that all may see it and post in it. |
| Dwayne04-14-06, 02:13 PM | signed by me. I would/will buy any epic material published. |
| overelemental04-14-06, 08:41 PM | Some new epic material would be great, preferably an Epic DMG and Epic PHB. And an Epic Monster Manual as well. |
| Vodalus04-15-06, 01:06 AM | Even a reworking of the existing epic material, the way they reworked psionics with the Expanded Psionics Handbook, would be nice. A parallel book to the current one, adding new Epic Prestige Classes, New Epic Feats, New Epic Spells, New Epic Magic Items, and New Epic Monsters would be very good. Something that rewrites the rules on epic might be very good, or it might be very bad. A bit more on transcendence and how mortals become demi-gods would be nice to see. Vodalus |
| Alxfel_Slayer04-15-06, 10:49 AM | There should be more epic material. I love the feeling of power over my opponents. I really think that they could do a lot more with epic spells. I neeeeed more on epic spells. So I am up for a new book. :invasion: |
| Animana04-19-06, 09:10 AM | If a new Epic book were released, I know that myself and three of my friends would be all over that. *signs* |
| sword_war44404-20-06, 11:16 AM | ow yay i would love a epic book |
| Dragonwriter04-20-06, 02:20 PM | I definitely agree that I would enjoy seeing an actual publication of a 3.5 ELH. I have the SRD on Epic, but it's just not the same. Besides, I'm constantly hearing how the Epic rules need a little tweaking anyway. And on that note (and since I REALLY don't wanna go through all 14 pages of this post to see if this has already been discussed), one of the biggest complaints I've heard about Epic is that AC becomes less useful as you go up. My question is this: if we are to redo Epic anyway, why not add to the list of abilities that go up as you gain epic levels a +1 Epic bonus to Armor Class every X levels? (X to be defined by someone much wiser and more experienced than me). Combined with some of the overal defensively-aligned Epic feats, wouldn't that give Epic characters the means to keep up with the incredible BAB of Epic monsters? |
| Zitchas04-20-06, 04:14 PM | Well, I'd love to have an EPH, EDMG, and EMM set, but even just having a fully revised, updated, and enhanced ELH would be very much appreciated. I'd really like to be able to browse it without wondering if I'm using something that got superceded and erratta'd out of existance years ago. And I don't want to have to keep checking the updates. An ELH, with some new epic feats and a rebuilt epic spell system... I'd like to see the spell slot system (with level 10, 11, etc slots) expanded a lot, and not just requiring masses of feats to use, and have a spell set (say, a couple spells per school per level up to level 15 or so) to go with it. That would keep all the spellcasters happy, and reduces the amount of confusion and forced DM consultations that the current epic spells require. (Here's something to think about... A fireball is a 3rd level spell. It can also be an epic spell with a Spellcraft DC somewhere above 40. The only difference? The save DC and the later can only be countered by an epic spell) So far, the epic system really feels like a quickly thrown together system to deal with a few powerhungry types. I'd like to see something that actually feels like a solid continuation of D&D. (Is it just me, or does the relevant power difference between a 30th level PC and a 20th level PC feel much, much, much smaller than that between a 20th level PC and a 10th? I mean, a 20th level is nearly a god compared to a 1st level, and yet, comparing some wizard builds I've seen, a 20th vs 40th feels like something that could be "a good challange, not great odds, but deffinitly possible".) I think part of the problem is that of trying to keep the classes from outpacing each other too much. The whole what's a roll 20 or die for one class is a roll 1 or live for the other situation that can crop up sometimes. As of yet, I'm not sure how to really solve this, but it's worth thinking about. |
| CelestialBarbarian04-21-06, 01:24 AM | (Is it just me, or does the relevant power difference between a 30th level PC and a 20th level PC feel much, much, much smaller than that between a 20th level PC and a 10th? I mean, a 20th level is nearly a god compared to a 1st level, and yet, comparing some wizard builds I've seen, a 20th vs 40th feels like something that could be "a good challange, not great odds, but deffinitly possible".) It's just you. ;) Seriously though, the only time I've played an epic character he and the other epic characters in the group had divine ranks too. The characters were incredibly powerful, but they still had their limitations. We fought part of an evil dragon army and when six red dragons all breathed on the cleric, he had no chance to make his saving throws and was reduced to a cinder. I think though that more of our power in excess of the power of a non-divine 20th level character came from having divine ranks (most of us had 3 when the campaign ended) than from the levels in excess of 20. |
| Dracomortis04-22-06, 03:58 PM | I put my vote down for as many Epic books as they'll make. I don't care how much they cost- I'll go get a job if I have to! Bring on the epic! |
| Licínio Miranda04-23-06, 02:36 PM | I'm on it! The people here in Brazil want Epic too!!!! |
| Druidic Shadowknight04-24-06, 09:13 PM | Do I have to say anything... |
| PorreteSagrado04-29-06, 11:49 AM | EPIC PLZ!!!! :rant: :hoppingma |
| disco5405-09-06, 11:18 PM | Revised Epic Level Handbook? Where do I pre-order? WotC, are you listening? Publish it as a PDF if you have to. Marketing can't really think that the Complete Guide to Left-handed Bards is more viable? |
| Garble Willowwits05-09-06, 11:31 PM | I'm just here to show my support for future epic material. More Levels = More Fun |
| thesoulcollector05-10-06, 03:09 PM | Revised Epic Level Handbook? Where do I pre-order? WotC, are you listening? Publish it as a PDF if you have to. Marketing can't really think that the Complete Guide to Left-handed Bards is more viable? :rofl: Hey put me on the list for MORE EPIC GOODNESS!!! |
| DMaster4205-19-06, 10:14 PM | I dont know if someone has already mentioned this or not, but it seems to me that the D&D gods' salient divine abilities are a lot like epic feats. So an epic character will eventually gain all the powers a god has without actually being a god. So, I think it would be nice if they gave new stats for the gods with epic feats and their salient divine abilities are FAR more powerful and/or enhance the epic feats. |
| pita05-23-06, 02:01 AM | I have found that the first Epic Level Handbook, while intresting, was not useful, and a waste of my 40+ dollars that could have been used on others. |
| CelestialBarbarian05-23-06, 05:23 AM | I have found that the first Epic Level Handbook, while intresting, was not useful, and a waste of my 40+ dollars that could have been used on others. Well if you don't play high-level characters, it wouldn't be too helpful. Since many of us here have either played high-level characters or run high-level campaigns or both, we find the book quite useful and only wish we had more if it. |
| Thannin05-23-06, 07:54 AM | So is there actually any interest by Wizard to create any real epic content without at least two chapters of fluff and a working epic spell system? Or is this just wishful thinking and wizards could care less about us? |
| bluemage5505-23-06, 08:00 AM | So is there actually any interest by Wizard to create any real epic content without at least two chapters of fluff and a working epic spell system? Or is this just wishful thinking and wizards could care less about us? Wizards has yet to announce any such interest. If you speak with CustServ or e-mail them, they are likely to tell you that the epic community actually makes up only a small demographic of D&D players as a whole, and that is the reason why they have yet to do anything about the epic rules which desperately need revision. |
| Father Dale05-23-06, 01:29 PM | PLEASE MORE EPIC MATERIAL!!!!! Although I think we will see a Monster Manual VII, Player's Handbook IV, and Races of the Elemental Plane of Water all before we see more Epic material. |
| CelestialBarbarian05-23-06, 01:55 PM | PLEASE MORE EPIC MATERIAL!!!!! Although I think we will see a Monster Manual VII, Player's Handbook IV, and Races of the Elemental Plane of Water all before we see more Epic material. Lol. Alas, I suspect that you are correct. :weep: |
| DMaster4205-23-06, 03:11 PM | PLEASE MORE EPIC MATERIAL!!!!! Although I think we will see a Monster Manual VII, Player's Handbook IV, and Races of the Elemental Plane of Water all before we see more Epic material. That will be a sad happening if it comes to pass. :raincloud |
| Kribage05-23-06, 04:38 PM | So, I PMed a WotC rep a while ago who said that Wizards monitored these boards in order to see what people were interested in. He said that the volume of response on this subject had been noted. Now, I firmly believe Wizards would make money off of a new ELH, they just need to print it and add it to their release schedule. I'm hoping early-07, as sooner isn't really possible. Anyways, the good news is they are listening. |
| DMaster4205-23-06, 06:18 PM | So, I PMed a WotC rep a while ago who said that Wizards monitored these boards in order to see what people were interested in. He said that the volume of response on this subject had been noted. Now, I firmly believe Wizards would make money off of a new ELH, they just need to print it and add it to their release schedule. I'm hoping early-07, as sooner isn't really possible. Anyways, the good news is they are listening. Yes! Finally there is hope! :w00t: :dancin: Thank you WotC rep! I await the day new epic material is announced with baited breath. |
| Kribage05-23-06, 10:07 PM | Here is the reply I referenced in my earlier post. PLEASE DO NOT SPAM RYAN! Anyhoo, here ya go. "Kevin-- Thanks for the note. Please be assured that we here on the business and R&D teams for D&D have paid close attention to the epic-play thread. I can't make you any guarantees at this point--one way or the other--about specific support for epic-level play, but we have listened and are taking the comments (and the volume of response) into consideration. -- Charles Ryan Brand Manager, Roleplaying Games Wizards of the Coast" |
| lvl10penguin05-23-06, 11:18 PM | dear wotc, epic lvl handbook 2= $$ + happy customers everyone wins :) |
| DMaster4205-24-06, 04:22 PM | dear wotc, epic lvl handbook 2= $$ + happy customers everyone wins :) :heehee Yes very true. Everyone wins with this equation. We get more material and you get more money as flock to buy the book(s). |
| Desvelar05-26-06, 09:29 AM | I vote for something better for epic players i have to use Final Fantasy Campain Setting right now and it gets boring killing Jenova again and again. Also It gets boring owning liek 7 galaxys and the power to jump to them and destroy one witha thought. Votes Whats also might be good is make it easier to start at epic. |
| Salernodc05-26-06, 05:37 PM | To everyone who's subscribed to this thread....here is a direct quote from moderator WizOParadox concerning the implementation/creation of more epic material: "As far as I know there are no plans in the works for an updated book. We have had writers and editors post on the boards, but too many bad apples spoiled the bunch as there was flaming, accusations and nasty posts. They were made to feel unwelcome on the boards. So, currently there are no plans as far as I know. (I also only deal with the boards- I have no say in production.) Thanks for writing, WizO Paradox" |
| Hidden05-26-06, 06:45 PM | But.... I need a 3.5 Epic Level Handbook :weep: |
| revlis nogard05-27-06, 10:09 AM | ive been playing epic level games for over 2 years and with all the new books my group and i were all quite depressed that we dont have a new book to play in! i mean a good epic book would sell at least 6 copies to my group alone! and with all the other groups out there thats a lot of books being sold! |
| Kribage05-27-06, 11:51 AM | @Salernodc: Well, I'm sorry to hear that regarding posters on the Epic boards. I personally find them quite useful. But in any event, WizO's are not a part of the writing/editing/production process of any D&D book, so fortunately, her quote doesn't mean that an ELH 3.5 is out of the question. We should take her comments to heart, however, and try not to flame those who put out their original material on the boards. Thanks. |
| Malakai_Demonos05-29-06, 02:38 PM | You guys and girls have one more vote for a new ELH. I have a character that is just a small step from being epic and I am currently playing around with epic spells. I wish that they would rething some qaulities of monsters and Make some more and expanded seeds. I believe they really need to focus on a new or better epic spell casting system. |
| Eye_of_Vecna06-01-06, 09:00 PM | If you read the credits in the original 3e Psionics Handbook, you'll find the name James Forcade, a complete jerk of a guy who would at every instance rant about how he hated D&D. Apparently, he was playtester only to recruit players into his game. His chief complaint was munchkin players, and I'm only all too sure of his opinion about the ELH. The problem Wizards of the Coast has is that their staff and some of the most vocal playtesters are against such material. The ELH came out when 3rd edition was new and people were still a little unsure of a change from 2e. Now that the new edition is successful, those same knuckleheads who hate high level play (that's anything over the 9th level, based on J. Forcade's game) are at work to make sure that there is never another book like the Epic Level Handbook. Players like James Forcade don't buy D&D products very often: they seldom buy modules, they definitely don't buy campaign settings, and optional player rulebooks are out because they only allow core. Even before the ELH came out, I went to the Wizards Chat Rooms and asked people what they thought about it and a lot of them -- before they had even seen it -- had said they banned it from their game already. Just shows you the lack of openmindedness among some of the players who despise the ELH. I don't know why Wotc listens to the kind of people who call other players munchkins, especially when those players almost never buy your products. The loudmouth biggots who flame other people and always have a complaint about how other people play D&D (as if it were any of their business) need to be driven from our game, before they drive out game into the ground. As if it weren't clear, I support coming out with a revised Epic Level Handbook. Dicefreaks shows that epic-level play can be fun, creative and ever-expanding. Message to Wotc: clean house and stop listening to the biggots who would just as soon call people the n-word as a munchkin. It doesn't make you look good; it only makes it seem you condone it. |
| Father Dale06-01-06, 11:31 PM | Excellant post Vecna! I think many people could have their minds changed on Epic play if they got into a good group that did it. In my group of friends we have one guy who loves the game and is a great DM. But he never wanted to do the epic stuff, even when another DM was constantly running epic level games, and even when these took place at the first guys house! We finally dragged him into an epic game. He rolled up a 22nd lvl Death Knight fighter in a dragonlance epic game. He realy picked it up. He realized that it wasn't about being tougher than everything else or having unbelievably powerful magic items, because everything else was as tough or tougher than he was. His money quote was "Wow, this is so much more philosophical. Its like you think what you want to do, and you just do it." Point being that if more people gave it a shot they would enjoy it. Theres something to be said for those lvl 2 campaigns where you flip out over a potion of barkskin and you get realy worried when your trail rations are running out. But in the same vien theres a lot to be said where daily sustenance is no longer a concern, but rather where saving the world from a crazed demigod is the order of the day. |
| ArcanaKnight06-12-06, 07:45 AM | I would really like a 3.5 epic book with new prestige classes and updated info, although honestly I would probably buy any kind of update they put out. |
| Jarred Garrison06-14-06, 03:39 PM | I myself would buy a second ELH, if it was ever published, so... Add one vote to the tally! |
| Viper322006-18-06, 01:56 AM | Did I already vote? eh if not then I vote for another ELH with atleast partially balanced creatures! |
| se7ensins706-18-06, 02:12 AM | :invasion: |
| WinDReiN06-24-06, 03:44 PM | All wotc cares about is profit. If there's just one of them who wouldn't be so lazy, new epic books would already be out. Count me in, along with my 10 000 friends. |
| vanarcus06-25-06, 08:48 PM | Count my vote in definately! |
| __DnD4Life__06-25-06, 10:03 PM | I am SO Signing this! Epic material for 3.5 is NEEDED! PLEASE!?!?! |
| dregonflyus06-25-06, 10:40 PM | Give me an Expanded Epic Level Handbook that's on par with XPH and I'll buy it, WotC. I second this :thumbsup: :thumbsup: |
| DrakoShade06-25-06, 11:14 PM | Seriously... Expanding from standard play into Epic is a major transition. If it were thought out properly, and all the good crunchiness was done right, the Epic could easily comprise three books: Epic Player's Handbook: Expand each of the core classes into the epic levels, with repeating patterns of useful gains. Detail combat on a grander scale than "this is how you flank." Here, too, we should see a complete reworking of Epic Spellcasting, perhaps even expanding the same kind of spellcasting we already know into levels 10 and beyond. It'd be kind of interesting to see a level 11 iteration of the Magic Missile family (which only has two spells anyway.) Epic Dungeon Master's Guide: Everything which is covered in the DMG for regular play would have to be given, in detail, for epic. How do you go about designing a world where level 120 characters are common? What are the abilities that can be added to a magic item when you're this freakin' powerful? How do you challenge your players when they can make Asmodeus cry like a little girl and beg for his mommy (all without breaking a sweat)? Epic Monster Manual: Need I say more than a title for this one? We need good enemies to fight, with a good balance of CR at least covering from 20 to 100, and guidelines on how to best create a good challenge in the infinitely expanding levels, since our players are (of course) eventually going to outstrip anything in print except the Neutronium Golem. |
| Radnovius06-26-06, 01:04 AM | They should definitely revise the Epic material. I'd buy a new book. |
| overelemental06-26-06, 03:45 AM | Seriously... Expanding from standard play into Epic is a major transition. If it were thought out properly, and all the good crunchiness was done right, the Epic could easily comprise three books: Epic Player's Handbook: Expand each of the core classes into the epic levels, with repeating patterns of useful gains. Detail combat on a grander scale than "this is how you flank." Here, too, we should see a complete reworking of Epic Spellcasting, perhaps even expanding the same kind of spellcasting we already know into levels 10 and beyond. It'd be kind of interesting to see a level 11 iteration of the Magic Missile family (which only has two spells anyway.) Epic Dungeon Master's Guide: Everything which is covered in the DMG for regular play would have to be given, in detail, for epic. How do you go about designing a world where level 120 characters are common? What are the abilities that can be added to a magic item when you're this freakin' powerful? How do you challenge your players when they can make Asmodeus cry like a little girl and beg for his mommy (all without breaking a sweat)? Epic Monster Manual: Need I say more than a title for this one? We need good enemies to fight, with a good balance of CR at least covering from 20 to 100, and guidelines on how to best create a good challenge in the infinitely expanding levels, since our players are (of course) eventually going to outstrip anything in print except the Neutronium Golem. Great post, hope someone takes notes and gets off their non-epic butts to make some decent books for us. |
| METAWIZARD06-26-06, 05:51 AM | yesterday, my level 141 wizard obliterated 7 Great Wyrms in 2 rounds....because I wanted to play bowling for dragons before I ended their agony. Ho Humm....I need something to be a challenge. An epic MM would suck $50 out of my pocket as quickly as a headband of intellect. Well spent money from my perspective. :clap: you think I could get it in leatherbound? |
| DMaster4206-26-06, 08:51 AM | Seriously... Expanding from standard play into Epic is a major transition. If it were thought out properly, and all the good crunchiness was done right, the Epic could easily comprise three books: Epic Player's Handbook: Expand each of the core classes into the epic levels, with repeating patterns of useful gains. Detail combat on a grander scale than "this is how you flank." Here, too, we should see a complete reworking of Epic Spellcasting, perhaps even expanding the same kind of spellcasting we already know into levels 10 and beyond. It'd be kind of interesting to see a level 11 iteration of the Magic Missile family (which only has two spells anyway.) Epic Dungeon Master's Guide: Everything which is covered in the DMG for regular play would have to be given, in detail, for epic. How do you go about designing a world where level 120 characters are common? What are the abilities that can be added to a magic item when you're this freakin' powerful? How do you challenge your players when they can make Asmodeus cry like a little girl and beg for his mommy (all without breaking a sweat)? Epic Monster Manual: Need I say more than a title for this one? We need good enemies to fight, with a good balance of CR at least covering from 20 to 100, and guidelines on how to best create a good challenge in the infinitely expanding levels, since our players are (of course) eventually going to outstrip anything in print except the Neutronium Golem. I'm with you. There should be three books. Besides, WOTC would make tons more money with three books. Everyone wins! |
| Mythaniel06-26-06, 01:21 PM | Yes Count me in!! :cool: i definetly interested in new epic level material! and this guy DrakoShade is totally right!! i would buy the three Books! |
| Ninetails Demon06-26-06, 06:52 PM | I'm all for an Expanded Epic Handbook or even Epic Core books!! :cloud9: |
| DrakoShade06-26-06, 10:47 PM | Hear our heart-felt cry. Your customers plead for more Epic crunchiness. |
| speeblefreak06-26-06, 11:03 PM | I'm with you. There should be three books. Besides, WOTC would make tons more money with three books. Everyone wins! (especially me) QFT |
| pneumatik06-27-06, 09:07 AM | Yes yes! A new, playtested Epic book woudl be awesome. And please provide more epic level monsters somewhere. It's enough work just statting out NPCs in a non-epic game. Having to stat out every monster from scratch at CR 30 is probably the biggest impediment I face in running my own Epic game. |
| Korone06-27-06, 05:30 PM | Signed. |
| herms06-27-06, 07:25 PM | me plus 3 of mi friends are in :D |
| SharakvonCathar06-27-06, 09:55 PM | Up for the Epic!!!!.... Get some for DarkSun and StarWars too!!!!!! :invasion: |
| Mordenkainen's Evil Twin06-27-06, 11:36 PM | Count me in as well. |
| Magiblack06-29-06, 10:54 AM | There wasn't enough monsters or spells (ignoring the fact that the Epic spell system needs a total overhaul). I love to run epic games but it takes forever to make epic monsters and I'm tired of just making Paragon or Pseudonatural monsters. Consider this signed ;) |
| brun0106-29-06, 01:09 PM | Yes, pleaaaase do it, WotC! :D And would you mind also creating some epic psionic powers too? |
| DMaster4207-02-06, 09:02 PM | You know... It might be nice to have a revised Deities and Demigods with SDAs that aren't copies of Epic feats. The gods need to be restatted to fit epic level play, I think. |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-03-06, 09:57 PM | Everything that starts with Epic needs to be badly re-done IMHO. It seem hopeless though, this thread is already 16 page long and still no reaction from any of the staff or WizO *sight* :weep: |
| Archmage Atrus07-03-06, 11:02 PM | I'm gonna put in my own vote for some Epic 3.5. Though I would also accept a much lighter Complete Epic, which simply assumes the updates from the DMG/Complete books and gives us additional monsters, spells, etc., so long as it's within the same quality as the other Complete books. |
| tacet07-05-06, 08:52 AM | :thinks: I'll throw in my vote. how hard can it be? |
| GoodBradFluffkins07-05-06, 11:32 AM | /signed |
| Shoehsu07-06-06, 12:16 AM | I would love to see an Epic Level Handbook II! |
| JollyFather07-06-06, 12:28 PM | As an Epic DM I need a new Epic DMG and a new Epic MM! And my Epic players need a new Epic PHB! Improve on the Epic Spellcasting system. Fix the Elven High Mage Epic Prc. Stop putting Epic material in non Epic books. These books are for begginer adventurers and they need to concentrated on survival and not on greatness. ;) Answer us already! Regards all, JF P.S: I'd really like to see Mythalar powers in detail. And the fifth chaper of Nether Scrolls unlocked. And the sixed power of 'The Tree' in the Windsong Tower incorporated into the game. |
| Mordayn07-08-06, 10:41 AM | I would definitely buy any new epic book that Wotc should decide to make in the future. I would like to see a lot more prestatted npc's, new monsters and ready made epic spells, a couple of good epic adventurers would be nice as well. |
| DMaster4207-14-06, 04:38 PM | We took a vote in my group and my players all want more epic stuff. |
| Tpiardi07-18-06, 05:53 PM | up! We need more epic material! |
| Xen07-18-06, 08:07 PM | If WoTC prints more epic material, I will buy it on the first day. I love the feel of an epic game, and I'll surely buy anything they'll give us. Count me in! |
| adimeadozen07-18-06, 09:27 PM | If WoTC prints more epic material, I will buy it on the first day. I love the feel of an epic game, and I'll surely buy anything they'll give us. Count me in! Heck, I'd preorder it, sign me up. |
| Hennet07-18-06, 10:01 PM | I too, would surely buy any new epic material. |
| Xen07-19-06, 07:44 PM | Heck, I'd preorder it, sign me up. I'll second that! Gimme more epic stuff. The more WotC makes, the more I'm sure it'll catch on. |
| rydi12307-19-06, 08:51 PM | Yeah! Epic Rules That Dont Suck!!! Where Do I Buy?!? |
| Defensor_Vindex07-19-06, 10:54 PM | Count me in. |
| Optimator07-20-06, 10:12 PM | I concur |
| Chanmanm807-22-06, 10:01 PM | What about this series from a new group that just came out? They are selling very well, are cheap, and have received great ratings (but the material revises the deity system to weaken it while pushing for high end epic...with attempts to "balance" things by altering or even completey removing current epic feats and other components as SUGGESTED variants. Go ahead and read the descriptions as posted by various sites that rate this item an average 4.8 out of 5: Immortals Handbook (http://http://www.immortalshandbook.com) You can read the synopsis here, see some previews, the table of contents, and even some free excerpts. Other sites evaluate the item and give you some more idea of whats discussed inside. Look at them :D. Just google the book and look at other sites that review it :D . Did i mention this book is only about $8? |
| Darkhound07-22-06, 10:27 PM | Need: Monster Manual - Epic Tome of Epic Magic Complete Epic... yes! |
| pquekadl07-22-06, 11:21 PM | I'll sign. |
| CelestialBarbarian07-23-06, 01:10 AM | What about this series from a new group that just came out? They are selling very well, are cheap, and have received great ratings (but the material revises the deity system to weaken it while pushing for high end epic...with attempts to "balance" things by altering or even completey removing current epic feats and other components as SUGGESTED variants. Go ahead and read the descriptions as posted by various sites that rate this item an average 4.8 out of 5: Immortals Handbook (http://http://www.immortalshandbook.com) You can read the synopsis here, see some previews, the table of contents, and even some free excerpts. Other sites evaluate the item and give you some more idea of whats discussed inside. Look at them :D. Just google the book and look at other sites that review it :D . Did i mention this book is only about $8? The link in the post didn't work and I had to quote the message to get the url and use it directly. Looking at he website I'm confused: just how many "Immortal" books are there on this site? Edit: It looks like there are two epic monster books and one forthcoming epic handbook. |
| Chanmanm807-23-06, 10:07 AM | The link in the post didn't work and I had to quote the message to get the url and use it directly. Looking at he website I'm confused: just how many "Immortal" books are there on this site? Edit: It looks like there are two epic monster books and one forthcoming epic handbook. Sorry, the i tried to do the link thing correctly. www.immortalshandbook.com should be it. Anyhow, to answer your question, the first book was out which is the Epic Bestiary Volume 1. This introdcues some of the new campaign ideas they try to integrate that i mentioned in addition to variants on the epic, standard, and god system to balance the game (in the authors opinion). Here's some of the intro of whats in it. You can find more at the site. "Behold Beasts from Beyond Imagination! Unleash the most powerful collection of monstrous forces ever assembled and teach humility to even the mightiest immortals... Features: * Expansion to the Size rules, allowing for monsters of ANY size (even monsters larger than universes in fact...should you ever need them.) * Ideas on how Density can be a factor in your game, leading to Virtual Size Categories. * A Universal Damage Table and how to modify damage based on the size of the monsters appendages. * A brief glimpse of the kosmos, an introduction to the various dimensions and their rulers and inhabitants. * Dimensional Race detailed: The Angels (Devas): from the stoical demi-powered Elohim to the majestic cosmic powered Seraphim. * 39 truly epic monsters (34 monsters and 5 templates) ranging from CR 10 to over CR 1000; including the unstoppable Neutronium Golem and the awesome World Flayers. Many entries include new artifacts and epic spells. * 5 mighty templates (with examples); such as the immortal devouring Akalich; the seismic-shaking Macrobe creature and the ultimate expression of evolution, the Amidah. * Each entry has a section detailing multiple Adventure Ideas. * Each intelligent creature has round-by-round tactics listed. * New feats, including the basis for a whole new spell system some of which you can see here. The variants technically should allow the book to say over 50 monsters lol (as one site said that reviewed the book). The NEXT book to come out on August 11 is a book all on Ascension (as it is named). This is more on the redesigning the game as the Bestiary does. Here's a description of the product from the site: "Gain Glory and Godly Power!" Uncover your immortal destiny and gain strength from the worship of souls and the harvest of spirits. Features: * The Worship Point System; which determines the relationship between religion and divinity. * Full rules for divine ascension. * Full rules for divine intervention and avatars. * 13 Divinity Templates (with examples), from Disciples to Time Lords. * 46 Portfolio Templates, from Air to Wisdom; and includes rules for creating your own portfolios. * 100 Epic Feats. * 150 Divine Abilities. * 50 Cosmic Abilities. * 25 Transcendent Abilities. * 10 Omnific Abilities. * Immortal Character Sheets. This book is 208 pages and i believe is going to be sold for about $12 or so. As to answering your question as to how many, this group and author are NEW. They have just been approved of their products and releasing them. There are 3 released, but the details of the the next 4 or 5 books are given on the site. The future books include redesigning the epic spellcasting system, the item system, artifact system, feats, and epic in general as well as expanding on more monsters and more on the deity system. |
| Gothenem07-24-06, 01:39 PM | Here, Here!!!!!! More epic stuff please. Epic insights must return!! Please bring it back. Please. |
| Test00107-25-06, 08:53 AM | Yes please, I would like seconds. Maybe just a 3.5 updated Epic Level Handbook? |
| Mythaniel07-25-06, 11:12 AM | that will be awesome if their launch epic level's Player's Handbook, epic level's Dungeon Master guide and epic level's Monster Manual. because the actual epic level handbook don't give complete detail about all the items in the Dungeon Master Guide, all the monsters epic will be cool :P and complte epic feats that has been launching in recent suplements into the Player's category and the epic prestige clasess from 3.0/3.5 versions (like the elven High Mage) into the dungeons category and thats will be tree awesome books and although i don't like DnD very much, i do like epic progessions, i am with you :D :P |
| Xivilai07-27-06, 01:22 AM | "Emailing and snail mailing the good people at Wizards might be a bit annoying (for both them and us), but in my book, Epic's worth it." Signed, bumped, and quoted for truth. :) New epic material - speciffically, something with some careful planning to ensure a minimum of balance - would be wonderful, and would bring a great deal of new potential to old settings. Some settings in particular, such as the classic Forgotten Realms, the venerable Mystara, and the promising new Eberron, cry out for support for epic leveled adventurers and adventures, and people who've been running a game for ages already deserve to get an expansion of possibilities to keep them going indefinitely, if they so desire. Isn't the whole premise of DnD and the d20 system supposed to be that of limitless possibility? |
| dan411407-27-06, 10:21 AM | I'm in. We need more epic stuff. |
| Da Black Cat08-01-06, 11:42 AM | I love the Expanded Psionics Handbook; please update the Epic Level Handbook too, WotC! - =? |
| cesare7608-02-06, 10:48 AM | Sono un giocatore/DM italiano e anch'io vorrei molto altro materiale epico, soprattutto il manuale aggiornato alla 3.5 e magari perché no una avventura o campagna!!!! TRANSLATION: I'm an italian player/DM and I also wish more and more epic material, most of all a 3.5 updated manual and, why not, a big epic adventure or campaign!!! |
| overelemental08-02-06, 07:30 PM | "Emailing and snail mailing the good people at Wizards might be a bit annoying (for both them and us), but in my book, Epic's worth it." Signed, bumped, and quoted for truth. :) Who is it suggested we email about this? WotC customer service? |
| Rancorous_Fool08-05-06, 01:57 AM | The first post who's with me. I SAY: I'm WITH YOU!! |
| Malforian08-11-06, 10:13 AM | New epic book that is 3.5 and works with the other stuff please. |
| Draegun Fury08-18-06, 07:57 AM | I'm in! We need more Epic, but not the same Epic, extended Epic. If WoTC was to print only One more Epic Book ever, I would ask for an EPIC MONSTER MANUAL. 180 Monsters Ranging from CR 21 to CR 100!!!! Nothing frustrates me more than siting down to play Epic and finding that the only way to chalenge my PC's is too Slap Paragon or Psuedonatural, or both, Templates on all the monsters. Sure, the Atropal can be Advanced to 100HD, but unless I'm using him as a BBeG, he is never going to get there. I want to be able to Flip to Page 213 and see a Ragnarokorian with 100HD (5800hp) an AC of 200! A BAB of 140 and a Damage output of 500 per hit (ATLEAST). I want to be able to challenge my PCs with Monsters at every step of their Epic Journey. Cheers. |
| Upper_Krust08-18-06, 08:20 AM | Hey Draegun Fury! :) I'm in! We need more Epic, but not the same Epic, extended Epic. If WoTC was to print only One more Epic Book ever, I would ask for an EPIC MONSTER MANUAL. 180 Monsters Ranging from CR 21 to CR 100!!!! Nothing frustrates me more than siting down to play Epic and finding that the only way to chalenge my PC's is too Slap Paragon or Psuedonatural, or both, Templates on all the monsters. Sure, the Atropal can be Advanced to 100HD, but unless I'm using him as a BBeG, he is never going to get there. I want to be able to Flip to Page 213 and see a Ragnarokorian with 100HD (5800hp) an AC of 200! A BAB of 140 and a Damage output of 500 per hit (ATLEAST). I want to be able to challenge my PCs with Monsters at every step of their Epic Journey. Cheers. How about 153 Monsters with Challenge Ratings from 21 to 10,000? Divided into three volumes? The first of which is available now (in pdf format) and due in print this October. http://www.immortalshandbook.com/immortalshandbook.htm Congrats on the baby girl by the way. :) |
| Shariell08-18-06, 09:38 AM | I've already purchased the epic bestiary (volume 1) from UK, and I think is awesome ;) Strongly reccomanded to anyone want go far in epic levels adventuring, and hope to see soon the volume 2.... and of course even the volume 3 :) Other than this beautyful manual, I think every epic levels fan should go to dicefreaks, a truly invaluable resource of (free) epic level challenges. The DF material il prevalently focused on demons/devils/gods, but there are even other creatures to fit everyone's need of such high CR monsters. Yes, I've already signed this petition, but the reality is WotC didn't care about new epic products and no further epic manual is in their plans. It's sad but true, epic levels don't sell well in the market. We all, epic players around the world, are our most valuable resource to produce and update epic material, we have to do our job to keep the game worth playng ;) |
| Shariell08-18-06, 09:46 AM | Sono un giocatore/DM italiano e anch'io vorrei molto altro materiale epico, soprattutto il manuale aggiornato alla 3.5 e magari perché no una avventura o campagna!!!! TRANSLATION: I'm an italian player/DM and I also wish more and more epic material, most of all a 3.5 updated manual and, why not, a big epic adventure or campaign!!! Hi, I'm an italian DM/player too :) Se non lo conosci già, da un'occhiata a dicefreaks e acquista l'immortal handbook di UK, per ora l'unica soluzione per continuare a divertirsi a livello epico senza ripetere sempre gli stessi incontri è questa ;) ------ If you don't already know it, go to dicefreaks for som free epic material, and purchase the UK's IH bestiary. Today this is the only way to go ahead with epic levels without being repetitive and keep to have fun with high level play ;) PS. Sorry for the double post :) |
| Malakant08-20-06, 03:57 AM | I want me some epic. |
| Roivas08-20-06, 05:42 AM | You seeing all this Wizards? This would be far better than shadow squirrels, and a how to add class levels to Orcs book. [...MM4....cough..cough] Make me a book that will let me take my players to level 99. And this time playtest the monsters, don't just give them guesstimated CRs, it might be a pain but you guys like money right? |
| Ninetails Demon08-20-06, 06:54 PM | I've made a most certainly life altering decision recently. In anticipation of the soon-to-be Epic books, I'm going to sell the majority of my organs to raise funds for the Epic costs of those aforementioned books... What's that? There's no epic books?!? ARGH!! These few remaining organs cannot sustain my life without the spirit to live!! I... need...epic... :surrender |
| TheDarkLord08-21-06, 12:19 AM | Count me and my party of seven in as well... thats if they already havn't voted. |
| Shariell08-21-06, 03:58 AM | we already have a official response to this petition.... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=680032 |
| DMaster4208-27-06, 11:44 PM | Hi everyone, I have decided to start a project for the creation of our Epic Level Handbook. Here's a link to the site: http://community.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=691517 So post your ideas if you want. Remember that we're going for a balanced, 3.5 revised, far larger Epic Level Handbook. Possibly we could make more than one book. Like a Core set, but for now we're starting with the one book. |
| Optimator08-28-06, 12:26 AM | /signed |
| Cryforge09-05-06, 10:37 PM | More epic material! Stop helping the little guy when you can help the big guy control the cosmos with updated rules! :D :D :D MORE EPIC MATERIAL! |
| Mitchell09-05-06, 10:50 PM | Count me in. I would buy an Epic level handbook, or if they chose to make three epic books as companions to the core books, that would be fine, too. |
| Razieliffied09-06-06, 01:41 AM | "We shall go on to the end, we want epic in France, we want epic on the seas and oceans, we want epic with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we want epic for our Island, whatever the cost may be, we want epic on the beaches, we want epic on the landing grounds, we want epic in the fields and in the streets, we want epic in the hills;" I might be paraphrasing:D Yes yes yes, I know it makes no sense, but it was the first thing to come to mind. This thread has my support. |
| boggle_scorch09-06-06, 05:14 AM | I'm up for some updated epic action! Wizards... you can see the support this thread has generated. Updated rules for epic play would be great (as a current 19th level character i would love to be able to take my character to epic + beyond...) Go on... you know you want to ;) |
| Atirakis09-06-06, 11:33 AM | NEW EPIC HANDBOOK NOW! Also please include in it 10th 11th 12th and so on level spells with a rules guidline for creating higher level spells. |
| Leress09-07-06, 12:19 AM | Please Bring A Updated Epic Handbook And New Epic Material....please Please. |
| Question209-08-06, 12:27 PM | Signed, but i dont think wizards care about this petition. |
| Kribage09-08-06, 04:24 PM | Alright, this makes 509 posts from at least 390 unique posters. I'm sending a PM to Wizards again. Wish me luck. |
| Klytus09-08-06, 04:52 PM | Alright, this makes 509 posts from at least 390 unique posters. I'm sending a PM to Wizards again. Wish me luck. Luck! |
| dragonfire897409-08-06, 07:21 PM | so much stuff..... so many limitationss....... we need more monster options. only too many times an advanced balor is scary, and a pumped tarrasque just gets ridiculous in hp, nothing more fun. loved the abominations, and behemoths, and the devestation beetles, WE NEED MORE. I wouldn't mind it all in tiny books, one for new epic spellcasting (or updated spellcasting), one for new feats, and so on. MY MASTER OF THE NINE NEEDS OPTIONS AFTER LEVEL 20!! pretty please??? |
| StrahdVonZarovich09-09-06, 04:32 AM | Good to you, our 'Epic-brother', may they listen to us *crosses fingers* |
| DMaster4209-09-06, 10:56 PM | Alright, this makes 509 posts from at least 390 unique posters. I'm sending a PM to Wizards again. Wish me luck. Good luck to you. *salutes* |
| UmbralKnight09-10-06, 09:51 AM | Hear hear! |
| fatboydeboer09-10-06, 10:34 AM | WotC! Give me a new Epic Level book right now or I swear to god I will never buy another book from you guys again! (Ok, that was a bold face lie, I have bought every book that has come out since 3.5, but please do it soon! My party is only 27th level and I am already desperate for new material. Yes, this probably means that I am creatively lazy, but this is were you guys come in! Take advantage of my laziness!) My wish list would be (as I have seen mentioned in these forums): Epic level Handbook, Epic level DMG, and Epic level Monster Manual P.S. I have never posted in these forums before so that makes one more vote. |
| SaxGoth09-10-06, 10:49 PM | More Epic Material! Woo! Epic Core Books! ^_^ Let us not forget about "Complete Epic" :p |
| __DnD4Life__09-11-06, 12:32 AM | Alright, this makes 509 posts from at least 390 unique posters. I'm sending a PM to Wizards again. Wish me luck. well, ill get my epic spellcaster to cast wish and give you a +20 luck bonus on your next diplomacy check. |
| demonsinmyhead09-11-06, 03:47 AM | hey wotc.....give us new epic material....or ill give you a hellball in the face... |
| __DnD4Life__09-12-06, 04:33 AM | hey wotc.....give us new epic material....or ill give you a hellball in the face... why not a maximized twinned admixured (sonic) quickened hellball cast by a level 150 wizard? That might give them the picture. |
| Dhaise09-12-06, 05:10 AM | I'd purchase another supplement focused on Epic Material. |
| Dethro09-12-06, 05:19 AM | I fully endorse more material for the epic level game. |
| sorvikcorsair09-13-06, 11:25 PM | Well, I must say I am impressed. This thread has lasted over a year, and almost up to 20 pages. Being the first reply on this thread I think I will bump my post for those who don't read past the first post. Posted: 3/18/05 If they put out a GREAT, not good or well put together book, but GREAT book I would dish out $40+ on it. I don't want some 150 page thing, I want a 400+ preferably 600+ page book. I want NEW epic progressions with new abilities for all the new base classes and core classes. Some classes are greatly gimp at epic levels, they need more skill points or something. I would also like new epic monsters, and adventure ideas for progressing to epic. In campaigns we need to have some NPCs greater than epic for our PCs to have leaders, but how did they get there? Great battles? Diety favors? Give some of us ideas so we don't have to spend more time making new campaigns. I totally wouldn't minds TWO Epic books... or three! Player's Epic Handbook $35 Epic Dungeon Master's Guide $35 Epic Monster Manual $35 They make more money than just one book, and we get the information we want, I don't see any problem with this. |
| DMaster4209-14-06, 01:08 AM | A whole year! Wow! Congradulations. If only we saw some indication that the petition was working. Oh well. All we can do is hope. |
| Wolfpack09-17-06, 02:57 PM | More epic material is a must. therefore, signed. |
| SokenzanMarauder09-17-06, 06:09 PM | *signed* I'm all for the Epic PHB, MM, DMG idea. -Gene |
| Optimator09-17-06, 09:59 PM | ...I crave more! |
| RazielK09-17-06, 10:41 PM | You got me up for it! |
| Darcon_Firedrake09-17-06, 10:52 PM | An Epic level Monster Manual is all i want, and maybe more Epic info in the core books and supplaments. |
| OzyBurrfoot09-18-06, 04:27 PM | Nah, we need a fully revised Epic book along with an entire chapter devoted to DMing epic games. But thats just my :twocents: . |
| dragonfire897409-18-06, 04:29 PM | i'm betting they really are coming up with a complete epic book, because i'm not seeing alot of epic progressions in the new material. god i hope so, god i hope it comes out soon. |
| OzyBurrfoot09-18-06, 04:31 PM | i'm betting they really are coming up with a complete epic book, because i'm not seeing alot of epic progressions in the new material. god i hope so, god i hope it comes out soon. As much as I'd like to believe that, I'm honestly more inclined to say that yours is a suckers bet. |
| SheerAscended09-18-06, 06:32 PM | Yay for epic spells being worded correctly |
| ludzien09-19-06, 08:15 PM | What's DF? |
| Kribage09-19-06, 08:31 PM | Dicefreaks. An online community of gamers dedicated to making new material. Check them out. |
| Licínio Miranda09-19-06, 09:15 PM | I was never here, but I want more epic too. I don´t know if 3 more books wold be needed. They could launch books like: - Complete Epic - Monster Manual V (all ordinary monsters, but some of them, also with epic progression) - New Epic Handbook. Something that makes more sense... |
| Domriso09-21-06, 03:27 PM | We need much more Epic stuff! Sign me up (for the petition)! |
| CelestialBarbarian09-23-06, 12:06 AM | i'm betting they really are coming up with a complete epic book, because i'm not seeing alot of epic progressions in the new material. god i hope so, god i hope it comes out soon. Alas I fear the paucity of epic material in the other books just demonstrates a lack of support for epic play, rather than an covert agenda on their part to put everything epic in a new book. I suspect that they think there's just not enough interest in epic-level play to devote much space in other books to it, much less to publish a whole new epic book. I really do wish, however, that they would do at least one or the other. Ideally I'd like to see them do a new epic book which revises epic spells to make them work better and includes more epic progressions of less monsters as well as new epic monsters. |
| StrahdVonZarovich09-27-06, 05:09 AM | Don't forget to include much less insane DC, prices (both in cash and in XP) as well as much more creativity(like lvl-10 and more spell). |
| the_unmighty_e09-27-06, 10:30 AM | It's incredibly foolish for WotC not to publish epic material. As it stands now, players and DMs have to kinda make stuff up as they go (i.e. spells, monsters, some epic progressions). With no 3.5 epic source material, that niche is being grabbed and filled by third party companies (like mongoose), which is buisness lost by WotC. Based on the size of this thread, that means that everyone here would buy the book(s), and that would be a lot of money floating Wizzard's way. So why, why dosn't Wizards publish more? One word: lazy. They don't care. They make enough money on average from their other books, they don't need to do the 'work' to publish epic material. Besides, I'm afraid if they did, none of it would be play tested anyway, and would just make the game crumble at high levels. (though, it would take a considerable amount of time to playtest epic material, and thus if that is what they've been doing, I apolligize) Forgive my rant, but being that I am DMing a campaign that has just reached mid 20's, I'm seriously considering purchaseing the Book of Imortals and Epic Monsters, both are third party books. It'd be nice to see MM5, monsters 20+ or somthing. (300+ epic monsters mmmmmmm...) |
| Freedon_Nadd09-27-06, 02:42 PM | why not a maximized twinned admixured (sonic) quickened hellball cast by a level 150 wizard? That might give them the picture. Because we -want- Wotc to put out new material and learn why they should listen to us.... not obliterate the people, building, papers, and future products so that nothing escapes the explosion but some ashes. ;) |
| CelestialBarbarian09-27-06, 03:38 PM | It's incredibly foolish for WotC not to publish epic material. As it stands now, players and DMs have to kinda make stuff up as they go (i.e. spells, monsters, some epic progressions). With no 3.5 epic source material, that niche is being grabbed and filled by third party companies (like mongoose), which is buisness lost by WotC. Based on the size of this thread, that means that everyone here would buy the book(s), and that would be a lot of money floating Wizzard's way. So why, why dosn't Wizards publish more? One word: lazy. They don't care. They make enough money on average from their other books, they don't need to do the 'work' to publish epic material. Besides, I'm afraid if they did, none of it would be play tested anyway, and would just make the game crumble at high levels. (though, it would take a considerable amount of time to playtest epic material, and thus if that is what they've been doing, I apolligize) Forgive my rant, but being that I am DMing a campaign that has just reached mid 20's, I'm seriously considering purchaseing the Book of Imortals and Epic Monsters, both are third party books. It'd be nice to see MM5, monsters 20+ or somthing. (300+ epic monsters mmmmmmm...) I suspect that if Wizards thought they'd have a large market for a new epic book that they'd publish one. You don't ignore free $20-bills lying around on the sidewalk--unless there are free $100-bills lying around too. So it's possible that they think they could turn a profit on a new epic book, but a substantially lower profit than on the other books they're turning out. Part of the purpose of this thread is to indicate to Wizards that there is a free $100-bill in the form of another epic book for them to pick up. :D |
| Freedon_Nadd09-27-06, 04:51 PM | I suspect that if Wizards thought they'd have a large market for a new epic book that they'd publish one. You don't ignore free $20-bills lying around on the sidewalk--unless there are free $100-bills lying around too. So it's possible that they think they could turn a profit on a new epic book, but a substantially lower profit than on the other books they're turning out. Part of the purpose of this thread is to indicate to Wizards that there is a free $100-bill in the form of another epic book for them to pick up. :D I don't know - 18 months -after- the thread was started and it's -still- around. I'd have to say that if after 18 months and over 300 people that are registered saying "we want an ELH" isn't enough - they're just being greedy. Ok, so it's a $50 instead of a $100.... and then? :) I pick up loose change I find because it's more than I did have. roflol |
| CelestialBarbarian09-27-06, 05:19 PM | I don't know - 18 months -after- the thread was started and it's -still- around. I'd have to say that if after 18 months and over 300 people that are registered saying "we want an ELH" isn't enough - they're just being greedy. Ok, so it's a $50 instead of a $100.... and then? :) I pick up loose change I find because it's more than I did have. roflol I suspect that to qualify as a $50-bill--or even a $20-bill--a book probably needs a ready audience of purchasers in the thousands. |
| the_unmighty_e09-27-06, 06:00 PM | At the same time, WotC publishes books seemingly w/ little to no input from many players. This is one of the few objects I've seen that members are activly asking for. As mentioned though, WotC is first and formost a company, and as a company, they have to know that the consumer market is large enough for them to publish such material. For now, all we can do is continue pushing this thread. All WotC can do is keep publishing more material in hopes that the people actually want what they put out. It is indeed my guess that the epic community is actually rather small, however, this could just as well be due to the direct relaiton of available material. People who just started DnD as of 3.5 always ask "is paying $40 or an out of date book worth it?". I trust that if WotC put out material for epic, people would buy epic. After all, how many people aksed for some of the other branches of books specifically? |
| Klytus09-27-06, 06:31 PM | I suspect that to qualify as a $50-bill--or even a $20-bill--a book probably needs a ready audience of purchasers in the thousands. What is the axiom they use in TV and politics - for every letter received, assume that at least 100 others feel the same way, only they didn't bother to write. Apply that math here, and you have at least 3000 people ready, willing, and able to buy new Epic Books today. |
| Freedon_Nadd09-27-06, 06:45 PM | What is the axiom they use in TV and politics - for every letter received, assume that at least 100 others feel the same way, only they didn't bother to write. Apply that math here, and you have at least 3000 people ready, willing, and able to buy new Epic Books today. Exactly! Like I mentioned, they could only count 1 (me) in the thread. But if my friends had internet and would post there'd be another 9 people - just a matter of them not being able to. = / |
| CelestialBarbarian09-27-06, 08:28 PM | Exactly! Like I mentioned, they could only count 1 (me) in the thread. But if my friends had internet and would post there'd be another 9 people - just a matter of them not being able to. = / Actually, one of the first things you learn in undergraduate marketing is that people will often claim in market surveys that they would buy such-and-such a product if it were avaiable, and then often do not buy it when it become available. So Wizards might be wary that our "300 people" represents a lot of people who wouldn't actually buy such a book if it came out. So far I've played in a grand total of 1 epic campaign since the book came out. Over the course of about 4 years the characters in my campaign have reached 19th level, and I plan to take the campaign epic. (I've already used a pair of brachyurus, I've been using the extended death's door rule since they hit 11th level, and I've had then experience at least one epic spell so far--nothing lethal. :D) Most campaigns don't seem to get much into the teens, if that far. Many DMs quit running entirely because they find that it requires far, far more work than merely running a PC; some quit because they can't handle all the rules, especially as PCs rise in level; and some deliberately give out tiny experience awards to keep the PCs from advancing much. On the flip side, I've had at least two players turn down my campaign after they heard that they'd be startaing with high level characters. I'm not saying that there's no audience for a new epic level book; clearly there is some audience and I'm part of it. I just think that Wizards has at least some good reason for its reluctance to publish an entirely new epic book. On the other hand, I have to agree that an epic book seems like a more likely winner (i.e. likely to be more profitable) than the raft of supplementary books Wizards has been publishing. What's the latest "Races" book, Races of Stupidity or Races of Boredom? I swear I can't keep up with those goofy supplements. Oh, and how about all those environmental books? I think the latest one is Razor Burn, detailing all the creepy critters lurking in your bathroom medicine chest. I especially love the Razor Burn motto, "Survival will be a close shave with these monsters!" :D Oh yes, and let's not forget that Monster Manuals, which have begun to rival the Rocky films in number. I hear that in Monster Manual V they'll show us how to turn the manual itself into a monster. Oh, and they're going to have a new dragon called the pedometer dragon, which counts the distance you run while it's eating you. :D I suspect that it's easier to create some of these books than it would be to create a new epic book. Creating a new epic book would probably require that they finally revamp the epic spell system so that it works well, and that would require a great deal of work and creativity. Why work so hard when you can more easily turn your frost book into your desert book into your aquatic book? 1) Frost Book: Frosty areas are really, really, really cold. You take 20d6 points of cold damage. Cold dragons live in cold areas. 2) Desert Book: Deserts are really, really, really dry. You take 20d6 points of dehydration damage. Desert dragons live in deserts. 3) Aquatic Book: Oceans are really , really, really wet. You take 20d6 points of water damage. Aquatic dragons and dragon turtles live in oceans. 4) Void Book: The Negative Plane is really, really, really empty. You take 20d6 points of negative energy damage. Shadow dragons nip over to the Negative Plane when they want a pick-me-up. :D 5) Bathroom Book: The bathrooms of straight, single men are really, really, really dirty. You take 20d6 of filth damage. Dust dragons live in the bathrooms of straight, single men. Let's not forget the Races books. They're easier to do too: 1) Races of Elfishness: Elves live in woods and so do some other races we invented for this book that 3 people will ever use. 2) Races of Dwarfinity: Dwarves live in stone and so do some other races we invented for this book that 3 people will ever use. 3) Races of Dentistry: Dentists live in your wallet and so do some other doctors we invented for this book that 3 people will ever see 4) Races of Felinity: Cats are taking over the country! More households have cats than dogs! (Oops! That's one's not like the others--it has a tiny dab of originality. Guess they can't publish it!) :D But you know, I'm not sitting at Wizards looking at the profits from sales of these various books, so what do I know? Maybe having an environment for every room in the house and a Races book for every letter of the alphabet really brings in the profits. :D |
| Freedon_Nadd09-27-06, 09:08 PM | Actually, one of the first things you learn in undergraduate marketing is that people will often claim in market surveys that they would buy such-and-such a product if it were avaiable, and then often do not buy it when it become available. So Wizards might be wary that our "300 people" represents a lot of people who wouldn't actually buy such a book if it came out. So far I've played in a grand total of 1 epic campaign since the book came out. Over the course of about 4 years the characters in my campaign have reached 19th level, and I plan to take the campaign epic. (I've already used a pair of brachyurus, I've been using the extended death's door rule since they hit 11th level, and I've had then experience at least one epic spell so far--nothing lethal. :D) Most campaigns don't seem to get much into the teens, if that far. Many DMs quit running entirely because they find that it requires far, far more work than merely running a PC; some quit because they can't handle all the rules, especially as PCs rise in level; and some deliberately give out tiny experience awards to keep the PCs from advancing much. On the flip side, I've had at least two players turn down my campaign after they heard that they'd be startaing with high level characters. I'm not saying that there's no audience for a new epic level book; clearly there is some audience and I'm part of it. I just think that Wizards has at least some good reason for its reluctance to publish an entirely new epic book. On the other hand, I have to agree that an epic book seems like a more likely winner (i.e. likely to be more profitable) than the raft of supplementary books Wizards has been publishing. What's the latest "Races" book, Races of Stupidity or Races of Boredom? I swear I can't keep up with those goofy supplements. Oh, and how about all those environmental books? I think the latest one is Razor Burn, detailing all the creepy critters lurking in your bathroom medicine chest. I especially love the Razor Burn motto, "Survival will be a close shave with these monsters!" :D Oh yes, and let's not forget that Monster Manuals, which have begun to rival the Rocky films in number. I hear that in Monster Manual V they'll show us how to turn the manual itself into a monster. Oh, and they're going to have a new dragon called the pedometer dragon, which counts the distance you run while it's eating you. :D I suspect that it's easier to create some of these books than it would be to create a new epic book. Creating a new epic book would probably require that they finally revamp the epic spell system so that it works well, and that would require a great deal of work and creativity. Why work so hard when you can more easily turn your frost book into your desert book into your aquatic book? 1) Frost Book: Frosty areas are really, really, really cold. You take 20d6 points of cold damage. Cold dragons live in cold areas. 2) Desert Book: Deserts are really, really, really dry. You take 20d6 points of dehydration damage. Desert dragons live in deserts. 3) Aquatic Book: Oceans are really , really, really wet. You take 20d6 points of water damage. Aquatic dragons and dragon turtles live in oceans. 4) Void Book: The Negative Plane is really, really, really empty. You take 20d6 points of negative energy damage. Shadow dragons nip over to the Negative Plane when they want a pick-me-up. :D 5) Bathroom Book: The bathrooms of straight, single men are really, really, really dirty. You take 20d6 of filth damage. Dust dragons live in the bathrooms of straight, single men. Let's not forget the Races books. They're easier to do too: 1) Races of Elfishness: Elves live in woods and so do some other races we invented for this book that 3 people will ever use. 2) Races of Dwarfinity: Dwarves live in stone and so do some other races we invented for this book that 3 people will ever use. 3) Races of Dentistry: Dentists live in your wallet and so do some other doctors we invented for this book that 3 people will ever see 4) Races of Felinity: Cats are taking over the country! More households have cats than dogs! (Oops! That's one's not like the others--it has a tiny dab of originality. Guess they can't publish it!) :D But you know, I'm not sitting at Wizards looking at the profits from sales of these various books, so what do I know? Maybe having an environment for every room in the house and a Races book for every letter of the alphabet really brings in the profits. :D ROFL - possible. I haven't bought anything in some time because I don't need any of the "Races of..." books or any of the other MM's. The MM3 was nice (introduced monsters that weren't common-place), but the MM4 I've seen wasn't all that impressive imho. Anyways - I tangent. Short paragraph shorter - I agree. :D |
| CelestialBarbarian09-27-06, 10:03 PM | ROFL - possible. I haven't bought anything in some time because I don't need any of the "Races of..." books or any of the other MM's. The MM3 was nice (introduced monsters that weren't common-place), but the MM4 I've seen wasn't all that impressive imho. Anyways - I tangent. Short paragraph shorter - I agree. :D I bought the Monster Manual II. I believe I've used one monster out of it, the bar-lgura, which I had to update to 3.5. This summer I bought the Abyss book, and it finally has a 3.5 bar-lgura. I don't need it now, so I haven't gotten around to looking at it carefully, but I noticed that it does allow the bar-lgura to forceably teleport someone against her will. The ability allows the victim as Will save to resist. The way I ran it the victim didn't get a Will save, but the bar-lgura had to pin you first to use the unwillingn teleport. The party in my campaign has a good-aligned drow renegade. Her family came to collect her--twice. The second time one of her sisters hired a bunch of demons (through the lesser planar ally and planar ally spells) including 4 bar-lgura. The other demons (glabrezu) and a squad of bugbear/warrior9 shocktroops (decked out with all the charge feats so that they were awesome--on the round they charged) focused on distracting the rest of the party while the bar-lgura snuck in invisibly and went after the good drow. At one point one of the bar-lgura had her pinned, but she managed to make her Concentration check and dimension door away from the bar-lgura. Then one of her brothers, who had been watching through a crystal ball, teleported in, killed her with a spell, and teleported out with her body before the party could react. The (evil) sister didn't even know he had come and gone and continued to fight the party. The party's wizard blinded the glabrezu with a sunburst, and the party managed to kill them all, along with the evil sister, before she could escape. The party actually got the last laugh on the evil drow. The party had a scroll of true resurrection with the party's cleric used successfully (make his caster level check) to bring the good drow back to life. Of course they lost all her items, but really it was a small price to pay for making the evil drow think that she was dead and refusing to come back to her body to avoid the torture that they planned for her after they raised her themselves. :D That was a most awesome battle, and took nearly 40 rounds of game time, and I believe three or four sessions of real time. There were so many spells and spell-like abilities flying from each side in the combat that I had to make a list of them all round by round. Even though the party ultimately won both encounters with the drow, party members maintain a healthy respect for the drow as enemies. (I introduced the first spells from the Book of Vile Darkness in those combats, as what turned out to be a highly effective way of emphasizing the notion that the drow weren't just your garden variety evil but painfully evil. The worst moment came in the first drow combat, I think, when the party's cleric succumbed to a wrack spell, falling to the ground in agony with blood running from his eyes--even as several party members desperately needed his services.) Anyway, I haven't bought the third and fourth Monster Manuals, and frankly from what I've seen a good many of the monsters just seem sort of fake or derivative, and not really necessary. I mean given the way that players over on the tarrasque threads routinely used player knowledge that their characters would have had to easily defeat the tarrasque, I can sympathize with DMs who want monsters that their players don't have memorized backwards and forwards. I personally prefer, however, to just allow PCs to use only PC knowledge and if necessary to describe a monster in a way that doesn't allow the players to realize what it is, rather than shelling out an extra $60 for extra books of monsters when I haven't come close to using most of the monsters in the first Monster Manual. I'm not saying either that all of the "Race" or environment books are bad. Someone lent me the desert book and I actually liked it--but not enough to buy it. I actually have borrowed the aquatic book too and like it as well--but again, not enough to buy it, especially not when there are so many other books to buy. I bought Races of Eberron beccause it was the second Eberron book out and I was playing in an Eberron cammpaign at the time--playing a warforged, and I'd seen that Races of Eberron had some cool stuff for the warforged. Alas the campaign proved short-lived--as so many campaigns do--and I've never used the book again, not even when I ran an Eberron campaign myself (also short-lived). I also got Races of the Wild, as it had some cool feats and weapons. Oh, I actually do like the idea of the substitution levels, and when I had an elf-crazy new player join the group one or two summers ago, I let her use all sorts of Races of the Wild material. Alas her participation in my group proved short-lived too. I really have little to no interest in the other "Races" books and would actually buy the environment books first, if I had the time and money for them. Right now I don't have either. There are other books out that there I'm sure are fine, like the Necronomicon--I mean the Draconomicon is awesome--but I just don't use undead enough in my campaign to warrant a raft of new ones. In the four years I've been running the campaign I've used undead twice: once, when the party was about level 5, and went to some haunted ruins where they encountered, skeletons, zombies, ghouls and ghasts. Later, when the party had reached about 10th, they encountered one ghost and a bunch of hecuva (that I had to convert on my own from 2nd Ed because at the time 3rd Ed hadn't presented them anywhere. Since that time I've seen them somewhere, but where and whether for 3.0 or 3.5 I don't recall.) Dragons, on the other hand, I use all the time, because the party's wizard has taken both the Dragon Familiar and Dragon Cohort feats and has a silver dragon familiar/cohort, beause the dragon's mother was with the party for a while in elven form, because the some green dragons the mother scared away got their elders and came looking for her, because there's an NPC humanoid in the party's current city who's really the gold dragon who helped the party against the green dragons (actually the party helped the gold dragon), and because there's a colossal+ epic-level mithril dragon sleeping deep in a cavern under the Mithriwood Forest where the city is located. :D Anyway, if a new epic book came out I would get it as soon as it became available. It's one of the few books that I would now definitely get. As I'm no longer playing in an Eberron or Forgotten Realms campaign (have done both) and have no plans to add any games at the moment, I'm not buying any Eberron or Forgotten Realms books. When the come out with a book on the Nine Hells like the current one on the Abyss, I'll probably buy that--but I would buy the epic book first. A new epic book would be right at the top of the list. It's the one new book they could publish that I would regard as an absolute necessity. |
| sorvikcorsair09-27-06, 11:04 PM | So far I've played in a grand total of 1 epic campaign since the book came out. Over the course of about 4 years the characters in my campaign have reached 19th level, and I plan to take the campaign epic. (I've already used a pair of brachyurus, I've been using the extended death's door rule since they hit 11th level, and I've had then experience at least one epic spell so far--nothing lethal. :D) Most campaigns don't seem to get much into the teens, if that far. Many DMs quit running entirely because they find that it requires far, far more work than merely running a PC; some quit because they can't handle all the rules, especially as PCs rise in level; and some deliberately give out tiny experience awards to keep the PCs from advancing much. On the flip side, I've had at least two players turn down my campaign after they heard that they'd be startaing with high level characters. I have personally ran 6 campaigns in the last three years that went into epics. I ended them in the early 20s due to lack of material and messed up CRs on current materials. I would like to see at LEAST two books, I would love 3 as I said before. I want an Epic PHB and Epic DMG. Those two books with same or more number of pages as the lower level books would be well worth $70+ |
| CelestialBarbarian09-27-06, 11:11 PM | I have personally ran 6 campaigns in the last three years that went into epics. I ended them in the early 20s due to lack of material and messed up CRs on current materials. I would like to see at LEAST two books, I would love 3 as I said before. I want an Epic PHB and Epic DMG. Those two books with same or more number of pages as the lower level books would be well worth $70+ While that's nice, I'm not holding my breath for one book, much less three. I think it will take a minor miracle to get the one. |
| DragonBringerX09-30-06, 02:41 AM | While that's nice, I'm not holding my breath for one book, much less three. I think it will take a minor miracle to get the one. any 17th lv clerics around????:P sorry, im only a sorc. Maybe when i hit 18th i'll cast wish for a 3.5 epic handbook so i can continue to lv up with out having to retire and start allllllll OVER AGAIN! :rant: |
| Snotlord09-30-06, 09:58 AM | I would like to see new/revised epic material and would almost certainly buy it. I need revised and updated feats and classes, DMG II-style complex NPCS and lots and lots of monsters. I think an upcoming Forgotten Realms revision (hopefully soon) would be a great opportunity to push epic material that actually works. |
| CelestialBarbarian09-30-06, 03:27 PM | any 17th lv clerics around????:P sorry, im only a sorc. Maybe when i hit 18th i'll cast wish for a 3.5 epic handbook so i can continue to lv up with out having to retire and start allllllll OVER AGAIN! :rant: Heh. Minor miracle is only a 7th-level spell, so you need only a 13th-level cleric to cast it--if his deity will grant it. :D There's an online update manual for Epic Level Handbook and a number of other 3.0 books they didn't plan to redo, so you can still play your sorcerer at epic level--providing you can find one of the rare DMs who will run epic games. |
| Lucent10-02-06, 05:11 AM | I'd just like to throw my hat in the ring here and say that I too would both love and purchase new epic material printed by Wizards of the Coast. From new epic prestige classes, to new epic feats, and monsters, spells, etc etc. |
| disco5410-05-06, 01:25 AM | I will buy anything Epic, and so will my friends. That doesn't say much. I'm sure the demographics make publishing pre-epic materials look much more lucrative, but players who have gone epic have either played for years with the same characters, or they are interested in going to new places with D&D. Publishing epic materials will only strengthen the loyalty of these die-hard players like me. Well, WotC, if you don't publish it, then I'll just keep guying it from someone else. My last purchase: Epic Monsters from Mongoose Publishing. Hey, props to Dungeon for putting out an epic adventure once-a-year. Even the people who don't use it have to admit that it's cool to see all that power crammed into a stat block. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-05-06, 01:33 AM | I will buy anything Epic, and so will my friends. That doesn't say much. I'm sure the demographics make publishing pre-epic materials look much more lucrative, but players who have gone epic have either played for years with the same characters, or they are interested in going to new places with D&D. Publishing epic materials will only strengthen the loyalty of these die-hard players like me. Well, WotC, if you don't publish it, then I'll just keep guying it from someone else. My last purchase: Epic Monsters from Mongoose Publishing. Hey, props to Dungeon for putting out an epic adventure once-a-year. Even the people who don't use it have to admit that it's cool to see all that power crammed into a stat block. What did you think of that Mongoose book? I saw some of the stuff that Mongoose put out under 3.0 and I thought it was just ridiculously overpowered. As a result I haven't bothered to give Mongoose a look in years. Has its publications gotten any better? |
| Upper_Krust10-05-06, 06:00 PM | Hey Celestial Barbarian! :) What did you think of that Mongoose book? I saw some of the stuff that Mongoose put out under 3.0 and I thought it was just ridiculously overpowered. As a result I haven't bothered to give Mongoose a look in years. Has its publications gotten any better? I hear they have some great epic stuff on the way. ;) |
| CelestialBarbarian10-05-06, 09:12 PM | Hey Celestial Barbarian! :) I hear they have some great epic stuff on the way. ;) Hey Upper Krust! I hope you're right--that would be really cool. I'd really have to see it in detail before I'd buy it from Mongoose. It would sure be nice though! Any word on when it's due for publication? |
| Upper_Krust10-06-06, 08:37 AM | Hi Celestial Barbarian! :) Hey Upper Krust! I hope you're right--that would be really cool. I'd really have to see it in detail before I'd buy it from Mongoose. It would sure be nice though! Any word on when it's due for publication? For the print version early 2007 is all I can say at this stage. As for checking it out, you can do that now... http://www.immortalshandbook.com/epicbestiaryvolume1.htm |
| Tenebrous_Sage10-08-06, 11:40 PM | I would love to see a new epic book (more than one would be even better). In particular I would like to see a serious reworking of the epic spellcasting systems with more seeds, more factors, and far more comprehensive rules about them in general. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-08-06, 11:46 PM | Hi Celestial Barbarian! :) For the print version early 2007 is all I can say at this stage. As for checking it out, you can do that now... http://www.immortalshandbook.com/epicbestiaryvolume1.htm Thanks. I think I have seen it before. It's actually available already in pdf. It does seem like it's a little over the top. |
| Upper_Krust10-09-06, 02:00 PM | Hello again! :) Thanks. I think I have seen it before. It's actually available already in pdf. Correct. It does seem like it's a little over the top. But Epic Monsters should be a little over the top. Although I suspect you are referring to the CR 9721 Neutronium Golem...? But thats only one monster, where I was trying to show people there are no limits only your imagination. I think I have a pretty good spread of CRs in the book and a lot of the entries (like Dragons, Elementals and Golems) have multiple challenge ratings. So if your campaign is only just turned epic you could use the Mercury Golem or Platinum Dragon Wyrmling whereas if its 90th-level or thereabouts you can use the Mercury Colossus and Great Wyrm Platinum Dragon, etc. It should be noted that the dragon CRs are not on that list, and they also cover a good range: with the four epic dragons between CR 20-95, the two adamic dragons between about CR 116-260 and the nexus dragon CR 416 for the Wyrmling to CR 690 for the Great Wyrm. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-09-06, 04:13 PM | Hello again! :) Correct. But Epic Monsters should be a little over the top. Although I suspect you are referring to the CR 9721 Neutronium Golem...? But thats only one monster, where I was trying to show people there are no limits only your imagination. I think I have a pretty good spread of CRs in the book and a lot of the entries (like Dragons, Elementals and Golems) have multiple challenge ratings. So if your campaign is only just turned epic you could use the Mercury Golem or Platinum Dragon Wyrmling whereas if its 90th-level or thereabouts you can use the Mercury Colossus and Great Wyrm Platinum Dragon, etc. It should be noted that the dragon CRs are not on that list, and they also cover a good range: with the four epic dragons between CR 20-95, the two adamic dragons between about CR 116-260 and the nexus dragon CR 416 for the Wyrmling to CR 690 for the Great Wyrm. I haven yet decided to purchase the pdf so I didn't actually get to see the specifics. I spoke based on the material the company has posted on the web link you gave me. Thanks for the details, though. :) |
| User512710-11-06, 11:58 PM | GOD! i would kill for more epic stuff. and i mean kill. WoTC, if you want virgin sacrifices for those epic books jsut name the number! what'll it be? 10? 20? 50? 100? virgin sacrifices? please let me kill for some epic material :'( |
| Teh_Uber_Kapi10-12-06, 03:04 PM | I've played nearly every class, and had almost every feat, epic and not. It is true, we do need more epic material! I vote "YES" on Proposition:Epic. |
| Tenebrous_Sage10-13-06, 03:38 AM | I don't know how many of you frequent the FR forums so I thought I'd post this. Keith Richard Baker agrees that it's about time for some more epic material. He's not promising anything though. EDIT: Richard Baker, not Keith Baker. |
| BelRex10-13-06, 10:26 AM | That is good to hear indeed. And it was Rich not Keith who said it right? |
| rydi12310-13-06, 03:35 PM | happyhappyjoyjoy! |
| CelestialBarbarian10-13-06, 06:21 PM | That is good to hear indeed. And it was Rich not Keith who said it right? Is Rich Baker an official at Wizards? |
| BelRex10-13-06, 10:09 PM | He is a designer for Wizards. He helped write the Red Hand of Doom, Complete Arcane, Lords of Madness, Players Guide of Faerun, Stormwrack..etc |
| Tenebrous_Sage10-14-06, 12:57 AM | That is good to hear indeed. And it was Rich not Keith who said it right?You're right, I don't know what I was thinking. :embarrass |
| Shortstraw10-18-06, 02:13 AM | While a new Epic book (or more than one if needed) is a release I have been waiting for, what I would really like is if ECL's higher than 20 were added in all the monster books for the critters that need them. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-18-06, 02:45 AM | While a new Epic book (or more than one if needed) is a release I have been waiting for, what I would really like is if ECL's higher than 20 were added in all the monster books for the critters that need them. Yes, I agree completely. The Monster Manual has a two creatures with epic CRs, the titan at CR 21 and the solar at CR 23, as well as a bunch of dragons with epic CRs, ranging from 21 for the brass wyrm and white great wyrm to 27 for the gold great wrym. Monster Manual II has epic monsters too. The gem dragons range from CR 21 for an ancient amethyst dragon to 25 for a topaz great wyrm. Other epic monsters include bone ooze (21), chaos roc (22), phoenix (24), leviathan (25), mountain giant (26), and several other types of dragon: dread linnorm (25), hellfire wyrm (26) and fiendwurm (28). The back of the book also lists a corpse tearer with a CR of 28, but I can't find the entry for a corpse tearer either in the index at the front nor in the listings under the letter "c." Oh, looking in Draconomicon I see that at corpse tearer is another type of linnorn (i.e. dragon). Draconomicon itself adds a few more epic dragons (CRs in the low- to mid-20s) and refers to a few more in 3.0 Oriental Adventures. What about Monster Manuals III and IV? Do they have any monsters with a CR in excess of 20, and if so, how high? Do any of the other books have creatures with CRs of 21+? |
| rydi12310-18-06, 03:30 AM | how is a phoenix a CR 24? not that i wouldn't like it to be, but its stats suck. the only way i can see it doing anything is if it chain immolates, but that seems somewhat against the flavor of the creature. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-18-06, 04:05 AM | how is a phoenix a CR 24? not that i wouldn't like it to be, but its stats suck. the only way i can see it doing anything is if it chain immolates, but that seems somewhat against the flavor of the creature. I lied; it's only a CR 14. ;) Seriously though at only 20 HD it does seem a bit weak to have a CR 24. I do note that it has a nice range of spell-like abilities and some nice metamagic abilities to enhance them. |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy10-18-06, 10:57 PM | Yeah, I have to put in the post for this and say I can promise one sale to myself and at least 5 others immidiately...All about the game here...Please make the book thick and dense. I have a campaign that has been running for 15+years and although it has different members in the history Is quite large and incorporates all the WoTC products and many others....I am working on some stuff now that definitely needs some other Epic and World building stuff and I am having to use material from the first Two additions of AD&D to fill in the gaps.....Future D20 helps some But there is the need for about 1200 pages of pretty dense material to cover the aspects of cross genre and how to slide from Fantasy to Science Fantasy and then again into Science Fiction especially for Epic where things like this become more likely an event in Campaigns. |
| GreyEagle10-19-06, 10:55 PM | Come on Wizards! Give us a new ELH! One thats good! |
| The Wilgar10-22-06, 01:27 PM | Gonna throw my vote in. We need another Epic book! |
| SokenzanMarauder10-22-06, 01:55 PM | The Immortal's handbook by Upper_Krust is really nice. I just got both of them that he's got out at the moment and I'm more than happy with them. Especially the new monsters. -Gene |
| The_Glyphstone10-22-06, 06:29 PM | Absolutely - Epic 3.5 FTW! |
| Draconian_Cloud10-27-06, 02:53 PM | I really wish that WoC would make a revised ELH, I mean look at how little their is in the line of (Epic) feats, and with a the new classes they've come up with we need a revision, something like what was done with the PH 2. I also really think we need more CR 21-40 monsters. I mean you WoC has MM, MM 2, MM 3, MM 4, Fiend Folio, and another I forgot it's name. We have plenty of CR 1/8 - 20 monsters bring on the CR 21-40 monsters. I would pay at least $60 US for a 350-400 page Epic Monster Manual. |
| Orynn10-27-06, 03:56 PM | 3.5 ELH and/or 3 separate Epic Level Books = good |
| BelRex10-28-06, 10:56 AM | We have Epic Insights back. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a |
| sword_war44410-28-06, 11:16 AM | yay all hail Epic stuff now they nedd more bocks but yay but i wanted to say it |
| CelestialBarbarian10-28-06, 11:33 AM | We have Epic Insights back. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a Alas they chose to start with the warlock, but thanks for the heads' up anyway! :) |
| Tenebrous_Sage10-29-06, 03:31 PM | Alas they chose to start with the warlock, but thanks for the heads' up anyway! :)If you're interested in more epic material e-mail the author. I sent this e-mail:Finally, not only is did we get more epic material, but we got it for the warlock. A good selection of options for the epic Warlock, that gives him some cool abilities. I hope that Wizards decides to keep doing Epic Insights as a regular web article again, and keep up the good work.and received this in reply:Hi Owen, I believe that the overwhelmingly positive feedback has given a strong impression to WotC that there is interest in epic material. We’ll have to see what comes from this in the future. Thanks for the feedback - it’s always appreciated. · EytanIt's very heartening. :D |
| CelestialBarbarian10-29-06, 06:48 PM | If you're interested in more epic material e-mail the author. I sent this e-mail:and received this in reply:It's very heartening. :D It's weird that 500+ posts on the Petition for New Epic Material didn't mean anything to them but a few emails did. Apparently they're not paying attention to the epic threads. I suppose it works like this: 1. Wizards doesn't think there's much demand for epic material. 2. Since Wizards thinks there's not much demand for epic material, it doesn't pay attention to things said on the epic boards. 3. Since it doesn't pay attention to things said on the epic boards, it doesn't think there's much demand for epic material. Anyway, I took your suggestion and wrote to Mr. Bernstein. I even mentioned that what I'd really like to see is a new epic book. Thanks! :) |
| StrahdVonZarovich10-30-06, 11:22 PM | Someone know the email of the good-sir so I can participate/beg as well ? |
| Tenebrous_Sage10-30-06, 11:34 PM | I don't think I should post it on here, but it's at the bottom of the new epic insights article. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-30-06, 11:57 PM | It's weird that 500+ posts on the Petition for New Epic Material didn't mean anything to them but a few emails did. Apparently they're not paying attention to the epic threads. I suppose it works like this: 1. Wizards doesn't think there's much demand for epic material. 2. Since Wizards thinks there's not much demand for epic material, it doesn't pay attention to things said on the epic boards. 3. Since it doesn't pay attention to things said on the epic boards, it doesn't think there's much demand for epic material. Anyway, I took your suggestion and wrote to Mr. Bernstein. I even mentioned that what I'd really like to see is a new epic book. Thanks! :) He has written back to me twice now, and suggested that I contact Customer Service with my desire for a new epic book or books. I did so and got a nice reply. He also told me that Wizards has taken notice of the positive response generated by the return of "Epic Insights" and that they're not averse to doing more epic products. He did tell me though that they plan out their products a year or two in advance so that if they decided now to do another epic book they wouldn't get it to market for a year or two. |
| __DnD4Life__10-31-06, 02:30 PM | ...to do another epic book they wouldn't get it to market for a year or two. Worth the wait. |
| EytanBernstein10-31-06, 09:59 PM | To be clear for the record, what I said was that we (myself and Wizards) have taken note that there has been a positive response. I can't say (and honestly don't know) what the ultimate result of that response will be. Whether or not there will be any sort of additional epic material (and what it would be if there was any) is still completely up in the air (and even if it was not, it would be NDA). I don't want anyone to assume that there will be an epic book in 1 or 2 years. What I mean by this is that the project schedule is planned out quite far in advance. Thus, should they ever decide to do it, then there will be quite a while before it actually comes out. |
| Kaelas Bloodstorm10-31-06, 10:01 PM | Even after 20 pages, you'd wonder if they get the hint or request at all. |
| CelestialBarbarian10-31-06, 10:58 PM | To be clear for the record, what I said was that we (myself and Wizards) have taken note that there has been a positive response. I can't say (and honestly don't know) what the ultimate result of that response will be. Whether or not there will be any sort of additional epic material (and what it would be if there was any) is still completely up in the air (and even if it was not, it would be NDA). I don't want anyone to assume that there will be an epic book in 1 or 2 years. What I mean by this is that the project schedule is planned out quite far in advance. Thus, should they ever decide to do it, then there will be quite a while before it actually comes out. Did I misrepresent what you said to me in anyway? Reading your post it doesn't seem like I said anything misrepresenting what you said to me. Perhaps you just wanted to emphasize that that there's nothing definite in the pipeline. If I did somehow mispresent what you said, I apologize. |
| EytanBernstein11-01-06, 08:09 PM | Did I misrepresent what you said to me in anyway? Reading your post it doesn't seem like I said anything misrepresenting what you said to me. Perhaps you just wanted to emphasize that that there's nothing definite in the pipeline. If I did somehow mispresent what you said, I apologize. Nothing was misrepresented. I just wanted to make sure that everyone got all the info in one place. |
| CelestialBarbarian11-02-06, 02:17 AM | Nothing was misrepresented. I just wanted to make sure that everyone got all the info in one place. Ah that's good. I would have been very sorry had I misrepresented what you said after you wrote two such nice emails. :) |
| Talmar11-02-06, 06:02 PM | Well, I've posted a couple times in this thread in support of Epic Material. I have also sent customer service email in favor of more epic material and when I do see epic material in books or on their site I email them "Thank you letters" :) Eytan, I've also email you in thanks as well. And once again, I raise my hand in support of more Epic Material. More Epic Insights, more epic content in books and I'd love to see a Complete Epic (or something like it) :D |
| EytanBernstein11-02-06, 09:51 PM | Well, I've posted a couple times in this thread in support of Epic Material. I have also sent customer service email in favor of more epic material and when I do see epic material in books or on their site I email them "Thank you letters" :) Eytan, I've also email you in thanks as well. And once again, I raise my hand in support of more Epic Material. More Epic Insights, more epic content in books and I'd love to see a Complete Epic (or something like it) :D Yes, thanks for the e-mail. You should have a reply waiting for you (assuming the e-mail didn't get eaten like it occasionally does). |
| carcrazy20211-02-06, 10:36 PM | Well I'm new to the boards but I would LOVE to see some nice Epic Material. And 3 Epic Corebooks Would leave me . . . . :dancin: :dancin: :cheer: :w00t: :clap: :clap: well you get the message.:D |
| Poisonelf11-12-06, 09:19 AM | I would spend money on new Epic game books. You could use the opportunity to update Diety rules, balance high level play, update arch-fiends, epic magic and magic items, NEW CAMPAIGN WORLD... I agree with those that suggest multiple books, I would certainly buy them - Players book, DM's book, Campaign book... A campaign setting would certainly ripen the market for this; base it in Egyptian and Oriental legend where kings are gods. A campaign setting where such powerful entities are the rulers of the world might be an excellent spring board for all this. -- My own campaign setting does something similar, powerful entities walk and rule the world, but it's limited to specific areas. Gives those epics something to do... |
| CelestialBarbarian11-12-06, 09:59 AM | I would spend money on new Epic game books. You could use the opportunity to update Diety rules, balance high level play, update arch-fiends, epic magic and magic items, NEW CAMPAIGN WORLD... I agree with those that suggest multiple books, I would certainly buy them - Players book, DM's book, Campaign book... A campaign setting would certainly ripen the market for this; base it in Egyptian and Oriental legend where kings are gods. A campaign setting where such powerful entities are the rulers of the world might be an excellent spring board for all this. -- My own campaign setting does something similar, powerful entities walk and rule the world, but it's limited to specific areas. Gives those epics something to do... What do other people think of a new campaign world? My own initial reaction to the idea is negative: there are already too many books related to too many different campaign settings for me to buy them all. If the setting was well done and had some unique epic material, I might buy it, but at this point I'd be very cautious about investing any money in yet another campaign setting that I'd never use, and I'd be highly resistant to getting any additonal books for the setting. I'm franky a little sick of Magic of Faerun and Power of Faerun, and Lost Empires of Faerun, and Monstrous Compendium of Faerun and Epic Bathrooms of Faerun and Wallet Invaders of Faerun, not to mention all the Eberron books out there. If they were going to make more than one new epic book, I'd prefer to see more generalized epic books, like an Epic Player's Handbook, an Epic Monster Manual, and an Epic Dungeon Master's Guide or something. I suspect, however, that we would be lucky to get even one new epic book. |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy11-12-06, 01:19 PM | What do other people think of a new campaign world? My own initial reaction to the idea is negative: there are already too many books related to too many different campaign settings for me to buy them all. If the setting was well done and had some unique epic material, I might buy it, but at this point I'd be very cautious about investing any money in yet another campaign setting that I'd never use, and I'd be highly resistant to getting any additonal books for the setting. I'm franky a little sick of Magic of Faerun and Power of Faerun, and Lost Empires of Faerun, and Monstrous Compendium of Faerun and Epic Bathrooms of Faerun and Wallet Invaders of Faerun, not to mention all the Eberron books out there. If they were going to make more than one new epic book, I'd prefer to see more generalized epic books, like an Epic Player's Handbook, an Epic Monster Manual, and an Epic Dungeon Master's Guide or something. I suspect, however, that we would be lucky to get even one new epic book. Personnally I can not blame Ed Greenwood at all for this. He spent 25+ years writing his world before TSR or anyone else took notice including a world mape on his ceiling and a whole full filing cabinet of typed material having been influenced by the recent and Old World Classics . From Toilken, Lloyd, Lewis and Howard to Homer, Bewulf, he ancient mythologies and many more with a touch of Alexandre Dumas and a dozen other Greats to just mix it up a little.......He has it coming to him.. ..AS a PLAYER and DM I not only realize and respect that I thirst for Sharp, Concise, Flavourful, Non-redundan(when possible) Thicker with less fluff books as the next consumer for The Realms.. As a Writer and Poet myself I want only the best for ED GREENWOOD's Worlds because those that will keep buying this work are often relatively intelligent (If I can dare this boast) well read people whom are fond of storytelling, adventure and a memorable experience for all. So this is advice to WoTC as well which I am sure gets Told by E.G. as well not to cheapen his work....Yet for collectors Ed Greenwoods work like so many others work could be republished in Larger Volumes and finer Paper and Bindings ..ect. Just for proserities sake. The time worked evidence of what works for publishing companies is well tread and even Hasbro surely has to recognize it....even if noone has noticed yet! Man, my own campaign world has had players pushing me to go for publication for some 17 years yet incubation/illumination/validation via manifestation time may differ with example such as Gary Gygax, Tracy Hickman & Laura Hickman, Margarette Weis and Ed Greenwood, Jeff Grubb, Alan Moore, David Zebulon Cook, Troy Denning ; this list is still just a glimse into the AD&D list for there are an incredible number of contributing example models to learn from in addition to the previous mentioned greats which I have left many importants out of in these two lists.......I have to say some important things about publication in such material.....Don't forget Robert Asperins and cohorts Thieves World books......classic yet... How exactly does one keep from falling through the cracks! Answer: Keep getting back on the work! Remember this too....you will never please everybody and that is good because many will come around to your way of seeing things If you do a halfway descent job. The reason I haven't jumped into my own publication of my material is out of respect for the "Authors" mentioned and many unmentioned here.......To produce something worthy of being on the same shelf IMO and theirs. Mine is harder to meet I am sure yet such work is only partially in the dream&writing layout.........So while I am nearly ready to come foward and my literary agent hopes this work in particular will get finished soon there is another issue here too........Regardless of whether something gets published I recognize the neccessity of A prestigious endevour to settle only for where it belongs and to do so on its own merit. Knowing where to put a run on sentence is important and I feel it appropriate in this post for sure....In Lovecraftian style! Those whom don't or can't finish it isn't meant for because I am talking mostly to potential writers and serious gamers. IE..you need to be serious enough to keep gaming into the Epic Level stuff. If you haven't done it be careful when trying to tell everyone else What or How it is to be done unless your formula has exaples of working well and not loosing the attentions of the populace concerned with you endevour topic. In other words How can the publisher get your money with the guarantee to get more of it without you having a bad taste in you mouth.....please. Man I would do PR work yet it isn't my strength because of the way I am not concerned with comming off because I feel great convictions about how others will respond to the truth and if you have to sweeten the statement still you must come out and say it aloud. (Unless it is a character whom never speaks unless "between the lines translation" is nessicary) I like the salesman whom will send me elsewhere instead of selling me something that doesn't fulfill my needs and I will come back to that salesman like most people will. This "salesman" has your needs in mind and is wiser than other salesman because getting your dollar is a result of his authentic personnal investment of time and consideration. As a salesman when younger I actually did this and a large amount of customers would ask for me everytime because of it yet I didn't advertise the quality I just did it. Basiccally the same is true of friendship and self-respect...... Become the person you actually want to meet! There are no shortcuts here! The power is in the authenticity and faking it will make you seem like carboard cutout of a gameshow host used car salesman. :D So now all that has been said ....What are your suggestions to WoTC for publishing matterial you wish to buy? Please avoid vague adjectives like "Better" and "Good" and dive into the discription of what sells it to you and NOT just when you look at it BUT also when you cover up the art and read it! If this thread can get any WoTC attention you may contribute more than you know to your own satisfaction!:cool: |
| Upper_Krust11-12-06, 01:55 PM | Hey everyone! :) Interesting to note the call for (and response to) a potential epic campaign world. Its something I have thought about at length myself, but I don't think its viable or logical. We all saw what happened when you try to shoehorn epic characters into non-epic roles (City of Union) - it just doesn't make sense. Same thing with an epic campaign. If you make epic characters too prevailant, then all you end up doing is making epic characters seem ordinary and less special. For me, epic campaigns don't need an epic campaign setting. They just need a DM who is not afraid to make changes to existing campaign worlds (whether their own or published campaign settings). Waterdeep might get teleported to the Great Glacier, Eberron might get eaten by a Worldflayer, anything can happen in epic games. So for me, an epic campaign world is a bad idea. However, it would be nice to see extended epic campaign advice if WotC ever get round to updating the Epic Level Handbook. I agree with the previous poster in that we cannot foist the blame on Ed Greenwood or Keith Baker. Epic gamers must acknowledge that they are only a minority of D&D gamers (about 5%). So it makes more sense for WotC to concentrate on products that will appeal to the greatest number of players. That said, I think the Epic Level Handbook and Deities & Demigods did a very poor job of making people want to play epic or immortal campaigns in the first place. |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy11-12-06, 02:05 PM | I agree with Upper_Krust emphatically. And thanx for your own work Upper_Krust for I know it as well......I am also on En-World. Perhaps more material for Epic needs to concern more micocosm to macrocosm effects and definitely Temporal and Alternate Multiverse Shifts and travelling and such.....Because this would explain the HOW/WHY of different campaigns in the same Campaign World......just to keep it interesting also I would like to see some work for Advanced DMing with the Epic material. Knowing some time worked out methods for DMing with Two groups and Two DMs whom corrospond and confuse players(In a well deserving DMing fashion for good roleplayings sake) because of the other groups counter work affecting both games through DM to DM coorospondance. Several gaming formalities also are worthy of publication as well.......To insure "In Character" and "Out of Character" game/table talk I do know a few methods (some picked up at Cons) that work well and get rid of the time waste issues by getting players to pay more attention because of a simple formality. Why should Epic campaigns be unfettered by the mind of the DM to think bigger and smaller at the same time....watch this vid for an example http://www.break.com/index/the_earth_is_very_small.html |
| Tenebrous_Sage11-23-06, 11:20 PM | Let's keep this petition alive. |
| PorreteSagrado11-24-06, 11:13 AM | New Epic Material plz! :) |
| E'tii'stil Shadowsil11-25-06, 03:01 AM | WotC, it seems the masses have spoken (and will continue to sign this petition and voice their approval for epic supplements), please neglect Epic material no longer :) By bringing Epic into the mainstream a market will be created for it, which if by the consensus on this thread is to be considered, a hell of a lot of people would like to see such a thing reach fruition. Epic all the way! /signed. |
| TheDarkLord11-25-06, 03:32 AM | While I've already posted, I would be willing to give WotC my version of their Epic spellcasting system. Our group has many times run into Epic Levels and this new spellcasting system appears balanced (read non-gamebreaking), I havent fully run i past level 35, where I purposefully end campaigns, if not at level 30. Though I have playtested it with characters ranging from Lvl 50-75. I wouldn't want to get paid either, let me be a beta tester and mention me and the other creators in the book and we'll be happy. Edit: I don't really run melee type characters into epic, though we have made feats at epic that would allow melee characters to continue dishing out punishment with the blade. |
| CelestialBarbarian11-25-06, 01:14 PM | While I've already posted, I would be willing to give WotC my version of their Epic spellcasting system. Our group has many times run into Epic Levels and this new spellcasting system appears balanced (read non-gamebreaking), I havent fully run i past level 35, where I purposefully end campaigns, if not at level 30. Though I have playtested it with characters ranging from Lvl 50-75. I wouldn't want to get paid either, let me be a beta tester and mention me and the other creators in the book and we'll be happy. Edit: I don't really run melee type characters into epic, though we have made feats at epic that would allow melee characters to continue dishing out punishment with the blade. Do you have the system available somewhere? I'd be very interested in taking a look. Thanks! :) |
| PaluX11-25-06, 01:39 PM | Trying not to get lost in the thunderous sounds that is the request for a fully updated 3.5 Epic Level Handbook. Please, powers that be, update the Epic Level Handbook to 3.5. Thank you |
| pale_enchantress11-25-06, 08:34 PM | Id certiantly buy it. I have over 30 D&D WOTC books on my shelf and a new ELH would be a godsend. I wouldn't complain about them reopening the epic insights article either you know. On a somewhat related note I think more people would play into epic levels if it was easier to configure and run games for epic level PC's. |
| CelestialBarbarian11-25-06, 08:53 PM | I'd buy a copy for me and one for my little cat Toto, too. ;) |
| The ShapeLess One11-29-06, 05:46 AM | WotC I wish that you would produce more epic books. Maybe even a new epic level handbook. |
| OzyBurrfoot11-29-06, 01:39 PM | Has anyone thought to make an actual petition for this, like with this website: http://www.petitiononline.com/ |
| DMaster4211-29-06, 02:24 PM | That's a very good idea. Although, the people at WOTC do still pay attention to the people on this forum as well. I will write one if no one else will. |
| OzyBurrfoot11-29-06, 02:29 PM | Well theres no reason not to keep posting here, but at least this way WotC can see how many of their customers are begging for this without having to try to count them from the forums. |
| DMaster4211-29-06, 02:42 PM | True. On second thought, I think Kribage should write the petition because he began this thread in the first place. I wish they would make this thread a sticky. |
| TheDarkLord11-29-06, 03:06 PM | Do you have the system available somewhere? I'd be very interested in taking a look. Thanks! :) No we don't have it on the internet. I'd have to ask my group if they want it published on the internet, it was a group thing we put together, not just me, otherwise it would already be on the internet. |
| Requiem_VampireKnight11-29-06, 09:59 PM | I'd sure like to see some more Epic material. With the new Tome of Battle, I'd REALLY:w00t: like to see some Epic stuff for that. As well as the Epic Archmage. There are some really good prestige classes that could use an Epic make-over. I'm casting my vote.:pint: |
| greenwonder11-30-06, 03:28 PM | i need this epic lvl handbook for 3.5 in my game. especially with regards to penetrate damage reduction and a few other feats . |
| HaikenEdge11-30-06, 07:19 PM | Signed. I'd write more, but my brain hurts. |
| summerstar11-30-06, 07:55 PM | Signed. Bring on more epic material. More Epic support for the FR in particular would be most welcome. Regards, Summerstar |
| Malkieri11-30-06, 08:05 PM | Mas! Mas! Epic Level Books please! I mean we have Tome's of Magic, Blood, 7 [I think] Complete Books out there for non-epic play, that's just counting splat type core books. You have a player base telling you we WILL buy this product and it is VERY desired. It's a no-brainer. YOU CAN DO IT! |
| jhelton12-01-06, 05:22 PM | Put me in coach |
| CelestialBarbarian12-01-06, 05:28 PM | Has anyone thought to make an actual petition for this, like with this website: http://www.petitiononline.com/ Did you create such a petition, or are you just asking if anyone else has? |
| CelestialBarbarian12-01-06, 05:29 PM | Put me in coach Yeah, I can't afford 1st class either. ;) |
| DMaster4212-02-06, 01:29 PM | Did you create such a petition, or are you just asking if anyone else has? I think he's suggesting that one of us write a petition the wedbsite about this. |
| Adolph_Kheebler12-02-06, 02:34 PM | We need a new epic book. ELH is horribly outdated and needs to be replaced. |
| TheDarkWolf12-02-06, 08:48 PM | This is my first post since re-signing up. And as such I think this may be the best place to start on this new account since I got my internet back. After seeing a DMGII printed wich was alright and a Players Handbook II wich was cool. I think not just more Epic stuff. But a Epic Level Handbook II would be awesome as well. Because there are plenty other classes that could be made epic and pristige classes not officially printe to be epic that would be cool. Including other Epic gear stories and bad guys. I was very diheartened to see Strahd was CR15 I refuse to buy that book. even Sword and sorcery made a 3.5 strahd that was Epic. because he should be. I Want more Epic things. I have roelplayed for years and have built up many characters to that point since 3rd ed came out. Including guys I had in 2nd ed that I started over and playe dup again just for the third edition fun. And I still have those characters but there is only so much you can do epicwise with the stuff printed. So I agree more epic content and a few books here and tehre woudl be great too. adventures, classes, feats, spells, locations, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on. So add me to the list. :D |
| Duismante12-03-06, 01:26 AM | More please. |
| CelestialBarbarian12-03-06, 04:15 PM | This is my first post since re-signing up. And as such I think this may be the best place to start on this new account since I got my internet back. After seeing a DMGII printed wich was alright and a Players Handbook II wich was cool. I think not just more Epic stuff. But a Epic Level Handbook II would be awesome as well. Because there are plenty other classes that could be made epic and pristige classes not officially printe to be epic that would be cool. Including other Epic gear stories and bad guys. I was very diheartened to see Strahd was CR15 I refuse to buy that book. even Sword and sorcery made a 3.5 strahd that was Epic. because he should be. I Want more Epic things. I have roelplayed for years and have built up many characters to that point since 3rd ed came out. Including guys I had in 2nd ed that I started over and playe dup again just for the third edition fun. And I still have those characters but there is only so much you can do epicwise with the stuff printed. So I agree more epic content and a few books here and tehre woudl be great too. adventures, classes, feats, spells, locations, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on. So add me to the list. :D Your mention of the non-epic Straad reminds me of something I'd like to see in a new book: epic (or higher-level epic) versions of demon princes, devil lords, and other iconic NPCs. I know that the Fiendish Codex I has slightly-epic versions of the demons princes, and Dragon has advanced some of them to higher-epic versions, but I'd like to see the higher-level versions (or versions even higher than the ones in Dragon) all listed in one place. Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think there's material for more than a single epic book. I mean most of the material in the original Epic Level Handbook needs to be carefully updated and the epic spell system seriously revamped. Then there's plenty of additional material like advanced versions of iconic NPCs that could fill pages. I seriously doubt that they think they can make money on multiple epic books, although that would be nice, but maybe at least they could follow the example they set with the 3.5 psionics and publish an Expanded Epic Level Handbook. |
| rob_douglas12-04-06, 08:38 AM | For better Epic Demon Princes, try this: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=311 Pretty good work. Demogorgon comes in at 70HD and CR50. I agree that the demon lords/archdevils should have more HD than the max advancement of a Balor or Pit Fiend. These versions are not as powerful as the official dicefreaks god-level beings. Now, if WotC would just hire the author to write some books full time. :) ROB |
| CelestialBarbarian12-04-06, 03:15 PM | For better Epic Demon Princes, try this: http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=311 Pretty good work. Demogorgon comes in at 70HD and CR50. I agree that the demon lords/archdevils should have more HD than the max advancement of a Balor or Pit Fiend. These versions are not as powerful as the official dicefreaks god-level beings. Now, if WotC would just hire the author to write some books full time. :) ROB Sweet! :cool: You wouldn't happen to be that author, would you? :) |
| Witch12-04-06, 03:21 PM | Kain Darkwind has his own account on these boards, and is, as far as I know, not Rob Douglas. As noted in that thread, and by Rob Doublas, the official DF cosmic entities are at a higher power level than those - Kain is trying to create a middle ground between the official WotC versions and the official DF versions (to which he himself is a major contributor as well). At the moment, only the write-up on Hell has been finished, and official work is being done on both the Abyss and the Upper Planes. In a far less advanced stage are the projects on the inner planes, on balance, law, chaos and neutral evil. After all, all these people are doing so in their free time. You can find the writeup on Hell on that board, on the "The Gates of Hell" forum. Dukes of Hell are about CR 35, Archdevils about CR 55, and Lords of the Nine about 75. |
| rob_douglas12-06-06, 08:26 AM | Thanks Witch - no Kain Darkwind is the author - I was just expressing my admiration for his work. I also always wondered if he was related to Jaerom Darkwind (though I doubt it, I just don't get the relationship in names, but that is my problem ;)). I can see how my post would confuse you though. But if Wizards hired Kain and Jaerom to redo the ELH, that would be a very good thing. You should definitely check out Gates of Hell - a truly fantastic piece of work if you like your Archfiends more powerful. And the flavor is amazing. And top-notch editing by the folks at Dicefreaks. Looks very professional. ROB |
| CelestialBarbarian12-06-06, 05:57 PM | Thanks Witch - no Kain Darkwind is the author - I was just expressing my admiration for his work. I also always wondered if he was related to Jaerom Darkwind (though I doubt it, I just don't get the relationship in names, but that is my problem ;)). I can see how my post would confuse you though. But if Wizards hired Kain and Jaerom to redo the ELH, that would be a very good thing. You should definitely check out Gates of Hell - a truly fantastic piece of work if you like your Archfiends more powerful. And the flavor is amazing. And top-notch editing by the folks at Dicefreaks. Looks very professional. ROB Aw, too bad. You're one of the most reasonable around the epic boards, so I thought you'd be a good person for Wizards to hire. :) |
| Grey_Mage12-06-06, 06:45 PM | Signed. And gall darn right... they keep trying to push the boundries and find new things to write about? Go back and cover the basics a bit better. |
| rob_douglas12-07-06, 01:56 AM | Thanks. I have lots of ideas, but very poor follow-thru...Of course, if it was a full-time job.... ROB |
| CelestialBarbarian12-07-06, 02:32 AM | Thanks. I have lots of ideas, but very poor follow-thru...Of course, if it was a full-time job.... ROB Yeah, I have the same problem. I wonder how man thousands of would-be D&D designers there are for every one who's actually employed at it full time? |
| AngelLemmingThief12-07-06, 04:33 AM | Yeah, I have the same problem. I wonder how man thousands of would-be D&D designers there are for every one who's actually employed at it full time? 42 |
| CelestialBarbarian12-07-06, 10:44 AM | 42 42,000? or the 42 orcs that Gimli killed at the Hornburg in The Lord of the Rings? Or do life, the universe and everything want to be full-time paid D&D writers? :D |
| AngelLemmingThief12-07-06, 11:18 AM | 42,000? or the 42 orcs that Gimli killed at the Hornburg in The Lord of the Rings? Or do life, the universe and everything want to be full-time paid D&D writers? :D I could answer that question but I would be tempted to give an answer even more vague and ambiguous than my previous :)) |
| CelestialBarbarian12-07-06, 11:26 AM | I could answer that question but I would be tempted to give an answer even more vague and ambiguous than my previous :)) I've wondered before whether Douglas Adams chose 42 as his answer to life, the universe and everything as an homage to Tolkein. |
| Kaldar_the_Summoner12-10-06, 09:37 AM | Signed. |
| Epic Commoner12-12-06, 12:17 PM | I'm in. |
| aragorn5512-12-06, 12:22 PM | i would love an a redone epic level handbook because alot of fantasy sci fi or anime sparks thoughts of how cool would that be but some stuff can only be done with lots of magic or epic levels! and the stuff im interested in does not feel right as magic |
| malecember12-12-06, 12:39 PM | If they put out a GREAT, not good or well put together book, but GREAT book I would dish out $40+ on it. I don't want some 150 page thing, I want a 400+ preferably 600+ page book. I want NEW epic progressions with new abilities for all the new base classes and core classes. Some classes are greatly gimp at epic levels, they need more skill points or something. I would also like new epic monsters, and adventure ideas for progressing to epic. In campaigns we need to have some NPCs greater than epic for our PCs to have leaders, but how did they get there? Great battles? Diety favors? Give some of us ideas so we don't have to spend more time making new campaigns. I totally wouldn't minds TWO Epic books... or three! Player's Epic Handbook $35 Epic Dungeon Master's Guide $35 Epic Monster Manual $35 They make more money than just one book, and we get the information we want, I don't see any problem with this. I love this idea. I'll add my name to the hat for this. |
| Witch12-12-06, 12:45 PM | Thanks Witch - no Kain Darkwind is the author - I was just expressing my admiration for his work. I also always wondered if he was related to Jaerom Darkwind (though I doubt it, I just don't get the relationship in names, but that is my problem ;)). I suspect the relation in name grew from some FFGE long ago :) But if Wizards hired Kain and Jaerom to redo the ELH, that would be a very good thing. ;) |
| Beckett12-13-06, 08:04 AM | hell yes. |
| Draz12-13-06, 09:14 AM | More epic stuff is always better! |
| Koz12-14-06, 12:23 PM | Signed. Koz |
| AngelLemmingThief12-18-06, 11:46 AM | I've wondered before whether Douglas Adams chose 42 as his answer to life, the universe and everything as an homage to Tolkein. You never know... A friend of mine thinks the source of the number 42 is the Hex number of ASCII '*' |
| CelestialBarbarian12-18-06, 12:49 PM | You never know... A friend of mine thinks the source of the number 42 is the Hex number of ASCII '*' Lord of the Rings predates ASCII so it can't serve as the basis for the orc game number 42. Hitchhiker's Guide comes later, in 1978, but is there any evidence that Adams even knew about ASCII and * being 42 back in 1978? Heck, I never knew that until today, nearly 30 years later. |
| strenoth12-18-06, 01:32 PM | and just remember,in base 13, 6*9 DOES equal 42! :-D |
| Urubos12-19-06, 04:58 PM | I'm in! |
| DivineDragoonXD12-20-06, 12:43 AM | yes please gives us a 400-500 page 3.5 Epic Level Handbook. I would pay $50 for it (hehehe $30 on Amazon). |
| Weiser_Cain12-20-06, 05:18 AM | Yes. Complete Epic |
| AngelLemmingThief12-20-06, 01:55 PM | Lord of the Rings predates ASCII so it can't serve as the basis for the orc game number 42. Hitchhiker's Guide comes later, in 1978, but is there any evidence that Adams even knew about ASCII and * being 42 back in 1978? Heck, I never knew that until today, nearly 30 years later. I should have said my friend is quite strange. (and if you are reading this - you are are quite strange, but in a nice way) and just remember,in base 13, 6*9 DOES equal 42! :-D Uncanny! |
| roachspit12-20-06, 02:19 PM | Dear WOTC, For what it's worth, here's my :twocents: If we could get a good, solid update on the Epic Level Handbook with additional material and at least one bonus chapter on doing Epic in d20 Modern, I'd be willing to pay fifty USD, easy. And I don't mean a wimpy little paperback supplement. I mean a book, with at least 300 pages, though I'd love you for 400 or more. If y'all could work in some sample prestige class progressions at epic levels and cover most of the new core classes introduced in the Complete Whatever series, I'd give you sixty bucks. Epic level variant features might get you 65. And I know about a dozen other players out here in the middle of nowhere who'd spend the same or more. Don't you want our money? We'd like to give it to you. :D |
| Callon12-21-06, 12:35 PM | I'm actually surprised now to see no epic level handbook 3.5 on the 2007 publishing schedule. What gives, WotC? There's lots of demand for it. I would think there's more demand for ELH 3.5 than for another $30 book about one gameplay environment (e.g. Frostburn) or a $30 book about nothing but "dragon magic". That's crazy. Epic levels, since they concern basic advancement rules, should be the next thing closest to the core rulebooks. I figured it would be a 3.5 priority. :mad: |
| sorvikcorsair12-22-06, 12:23 AM | I am starting to wonder if they just have no authors for this. If that is the case; CALL ME!! I can't believe this isn't even being considered. They need to stop with the base classes (we have enough!) and make the ELH with epic progressions for each class. Change the skills per level, add some new abilities, and give the feats required to take on those 3.0 epic monsters! |
| TheDarkLord12-22-06, 01:04 AM | I am starting to wonder if they just have no authors for this. If that is the case; CALL ME!! I can't believe this isn't even being considered. They need to stop with the base classes (we have enough!) and make the ELH with epic progressions for each class. Change the skills per level, add some new abilities, and give the feats required to take on those 3.0 epic monsters! Seriously, if my wife get's a promotion she can support me and i'll do this for food only. |
| Morphius12-22-06, 06:36 PM | *sign* Wait, wrong name... crap! Indelible ink! *signs again* Crap! Signed twice! |
| Witch12-23-06, 06:36 PM | I am starting to wonder if they just have no authors for this. If that is the case; CALL ME!! I can't believe this isn't even being considered. They need to stop with the base classes (we have enough!) and make the ELH with epic progressions for each class. Change the skills per level, add some new abilities, and give the feats required to take on those 3.0 epic monsters! I don't need Epic Progressions per class. I can make those myself. It doesn't take any creativity, at all. It can be done with only a remote grasp of balance. I want Epic Monsters and Epic Prestige Classes. I want an Epic System less focused on wealth and more on the character. I want ideas for how to run Epic Games. I want new feats. And most of all, I want those to be deserving the name "Epic". I do not want them to be "hey, I'm just the same as non-epic, but with higher numbers!". |
| Voldar_Mecorthio12-26-06, 07:59 PM | Here's an idea: Lets get a lot of people together (online) and make the ELH II ourselves. We can probibly get a lot of boardsurfer support, and we won't have to rely on WotC. Seriously, I'll join the project if we can get four other people to go with us. |
| Witch12-26-06, 08:08 PM | People make parts of it continuously. Look at Upper Krust; look at Dicefreaks; I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones I'm familiar with. Consistently making flavorful epic creatures and stories - it's only the basic rules that aren't interfered with. |
| Weiser_Cain12-28-06, 03:21 AM | There'd be disagreements and no ultimate arbitrator |
| Fallenangel35901-02-07, 05:39 PM | epic monster manual |
| Witch01-02-07, 05:42 PM | epic monster manual How about the Epic Bestiary from the Immortals Handbook? |
| DMaster4201-11-07, 06:44 PM | :bump: Must keep thread alive!!! |
| TheDarkLord01-11-07, 10:33 PM | :w00t: |
| StrahdVonZarovich01-12-07, 12:37 AM | Near 24 pages now, and still no reaction at all from them(Wotc) its hopeless I say ! |
| TheDarkLord01-12-07, 12:46 AM | Near 24 pages now, and still no reaction at all from them(Wotc) its hopeless I say ! Bah, One day, whether it be epic 3.5 or epic 4.0, we Will be heard!!!. :rant: |
| StrahdVonZarovich01-12-07, 02:10 AM | I sure hope so friend, I sure hope so. |
| sorvikcorsair01-13-07, 12:12 AM | I sure hope so friend, I sure hope so. It doesn't matter how long it takes, they will notice this. It will come down to them having to delete the thread due to its size! |
| Stigger01-16-07, 04:55 AM | Signed. |
| Salernodc01-16-07, 03:25 PM | WOTC - At the very least, PAY ATTENTION to your customers! How can you go months with no one in Renton taking 10 minutes to respond to this thread? POOR customer service. Just have someone there with some authority take the brief bit of time. |
| Gothenem01-16-07, 05:23 PM | Agreed. WotC should be paying attention here. With 24 pages of posts, it should be seen that there is a market for the book. I know there will be more then just the 24 pages of posters who will buy the book, but WotC seemingly ignores us because they believe we are a substantial minority of the gaming populace. It is incredibly frustrating when WotC will not support people who want epic play. There is enough epic play out there to warrent a new book. Get Crackin' WotC. |
| TempusELoT01-19-07, 08:32 PM | The first campaign I ran as DM went into epic levels by my own choice to allow my players to kill an elder god. He was my best creation and I was dying for a battle, but they drew up an ingenious ritual to seal the god away forever. I rewarded their dedication to save the world with deityhood. Epic rules need to be fixed. I know first hand the annoyance and confusion brought on by archaic rules in the ELH. Wizards and your Hasbro corporate masters, try listening to your consumers for a chance and maybe, just maybe, you'll get the profits you're looking for. |
| Neijin01-21-07, 08:08 PM | Signed. Consider that WOTC is rumoured to be coming out with 4.0 in 2008 and it does not surprise me in the least that there is no 3.5 Epic on the horizon. We'll see what they announce at Winter Fantasy aka "D&D Experience". |
| Netherek01-23-07, 01:13 AM | Signed |
| dragonfire897401-29-07, 09:32 PM | i'm almost tempted to put a dirty thread on the epic boards to see if the WizOs even pay attention here |
| Herevar01-31-07, 02:33 AM | Aye, and Amen! More Epic material means I will buy more WotC products. |
| Grandmaster_Kane01-31-07, 07:02 AM | Here Here i say update the epics |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy02-03-07, 07:47 PM | I can think of quite a few things missing on the Epic list of items. Plenty of room for expansion in this area too....hmm... Definitely could do the job myself but who would listen? Man, with a writing staff and artists ..hmm....Man , I wonder if they get heard when they say "We want to give you our money for this product!" I don't work for WoTC and I want their money for WoTC....How strange is that? Man, I really am in the wrong business. Hey WoTC call me, and...lol..seriously.:ton: I can guarantee four sales of anything epic in a very short contact time less than 12hrs for one that is on the opposite side of the planet, right now! Given time that multiplies.:pile: :invasion: We are not alone.....Are we?:allalone: :raincloud :noway: |
| derpderp02-04-07, 04:35 PM | respond, wizos |
| Charles08298602-04-07, 05:40 PM | I'd like to see the three epic books mentioned earlier in the thread. Epic PHB, Epic MM, and Epic DMG. Or at least some sort of massive WLD sized book with EVERYTHING epic in it. I'd also like to see a few of the rules reworked, and a lot more classes and feats. |
| Archmage_of_Blood02-06-07, 08:51 PM | We need this. NOW. |
| Icewraith02-07-07, 07:52 PM | Please, please, please, revise and expand the ELH!!! Tighten up the current epic spellcasting system, re-balance the epic advancement rules so that an epic fighter 100 doesn't have a epic+base AB of 60 (20+80/2) while a 100HD outsider has a +100, and please, please, please... more epic monsters. |
| TheDarkLord03-02-07, 09:55 PM | I can live without many Epic monsters. At Epic Levels, NPC's and their Epic Henchmen work fine for me :D. |
| Kribage03-03-07, 01:08 AM | Honestly Wizards! There are 691 posts on this thread. It is 24 pages long. There have got to be about 500 unique posters. You must know that this would be a profitable enterprise! In any event, the utter lack of any response to our queries is unacceptable. Does anyone know who the Brand Manager for D&D at WotC is? I plan on emailing him as soon as possible. Any info you fellow posters can provide would help. |
| ORC_Paradox03-03-07, 06:52 AM | respond, wizos Respond to what? We don't write the books, we just moderate the message boards. |
| runestar03-03-07, 07:41 AM | Stats wise, I am wondering just how representative of the overall dnd gaming population the few(relatively) people who do post here actively contribute really are... I am guessing not very significant... |
| Kribage03-03-07, 08:34 AM | I'm not asking for anything (except maybe a sticky?) from the WizO's, who just moderate the boards. I would like contact information for the people who are responsible for these sorts of decisions, no matter who can provide it. |
| DMaster4203-03-07, 06:08 PM | Making this thread a sticky would be much appreciated, please. |
| Kissed_Reborn03-03-07, 08:38 PM | Respond to what? We don't write the books, we just moderate the message boards. Could you pass the message along. Get a hundred authors on a hundred typewriters for a hundred days, see what they come up with. Actually that gives a great idea for something to do this summer. |
| __DnD4Life__03-04-07, 12:35 AM | I would buy this book. Ive already signed, so bump. |
| StrahdVonZarovich03-05-07, 04:14 AM | Still no answers? Just as I though...this is a very sad year for us epic-fans. I guess we don't we will have 'till 4.0 comes out then....arghhhh! *is very frustrated by the lack of communication between the Wizards Epic fan community and Wotc itself). |
| Angelflesh03-19-07, 08:49 PM | Signed. |
| Drahki03-20-07, 01:01 AM | Signed |
| Mrakvampire03-20-07, 04:19 AM | signed |
| HerbalTea03-20-07, 09:22 AM | signed |
| CommanderFuron03-20-07, 10:22 PM | Signed Will the rules compendium have anything epic in it? |
| ishihara03-21-07, 07:00 AM | signed |
| FlanellPyjama03-22-07, 09:08 AM | signed |
| redhairedpixie03-22-07, 10:42 AM | signed |
| Melmoth B03-23-07, 12:32 AM | signed |
| Tenebrous_Sage03-23-07, 08:46 PM | signed signedIt looks like somebody brought their MuPs. |
| Drahiricomadus03-27-07, 09:20 AM | Here's my contribute, an Expanded ELH would definitely be of great use to me as to many other people around here! :ayyyy!: Anyway, since almost every recently published book comes along with new classes, and their epic level adaptation, we probably should ask for an Epic Level Compendium :rolleyes: |
| Treefrog03-28-07, 08:02 AM | I also would purchase an updated ELH.... Considering I have a 66th-level Ranger Demi-God.... That brings up another thing..... Where's the updated Deities and Demigods? |
| djeannot03-28-07, 04:12 PM | Epic Definitely needs to be updated to 3.5 with about ... oh i don't know... 10 times the amount of material. I love everything about epic, it stretches every little bit of creativity out of players and DMs and also pushes the limits of power, to the point of being able to effect the entire world all at once. Signed. |
| brun0103-28-07, 04:31 PM | You know, it would be nice to have *some* of WotC's positioning about this thread... Are we being heard or what? 711 replies and 19,750 views is not something to be ignored... |
| CelestialBarbarian03-28-07, 11:46 PM | It looks like somebody brought their MuPs. What's a MuP? Mutant Partridge? :D You know, it would be nice to have *some* of WotC's positioning about this thread... Are we being heard or what? 711 replies and 19,750 views is not something to be ignored... I agree. I find the silence from Wizards extremely frustrating. |
| ishihara03-29-07, 10:15 AM | What's a MuP? Mutant Partridge? :D master of urban planning? :confused: |
| CelestialBarbarian03-29-07, 11:42 AM | master of urban planning? :confused: Muppets Under Pittsburg? :P |
| Tenebrous_Sage03-29-07, 11:31 PM | :rolleyes: |
| rooth03-30-07, 12:48 AM | Another vote for more Epic material. At the very least, I'd like to see a nice Epic 3.5 PHB, with a re-assertion of how the skills work at high DCs. Our group is nearing the end of our campaign, which will be ~50th level. We've found that Epic is broken in many ways, but so far, we've been reasonably good at avoiding blatant abuses of the Epic rules. It would be nice if future 3.5 Epic publications provided variants rules or even outright alterations of the original ideas. non-epic 3.0 -> 3.5 got quite a work-over. Epic 3.0 -> 3.5 had minor adjustments at best. Epic Insight articles would rock! |
| herceg04-02-07, 09:49 AM | "Epic Level Compendium" :plotting: Sounds nice...signed :) |
| BigGus04-09-07, 03:35 PM | I'll add my vote to this as well, what I think we need most is: 1) More Epic Prestige Classes. The Bard, Monk and Druid in particular have very little to choose from. 2) A better Epic Spellcasting system. Nuff said. 3) More high-epic (CR35+) monsters. 4) More advice on how to build an epic world - how to balance it and make it make sense. If WotC want to do a book on the cheap, how about a compendium of existing epic material from the various sources (outside of the ELH) they've published already, with a few new bits & pieces to fill it out? Of course, what I REALLY want is a new ELH and Deities & Demigods which are fully compatible, but I'm not optimistic... |
| BigGus04-09-07, 03:38 PM | I'll add my vote to this as well, what I think we need most is: 1) More Epic Prestige Classes. The Bard, Monk and Druid in particular have very little to choose from. 2) A better Epic Spellcasting system. Nuff said. 3) More high-epic (CR35+) monsters. It's easy enough to advance monsters from the MM for low-epic opponents, but we need more challenges for the truly powerful. 4) More advice on how to build an epic world - how to balance it and make it make sense. If WotC want to do a book on the cheap, how about a compendium of existing epic material from the various sources (outside of the ELH) they've published already, with a few new bits & pieces to fill it out? Of course, what I REALLY want is a new ELH and Deities & Demigods which are fully compatible, but I'm not optimistic... Sorry this posted twice, when I tried to post it the site said I wasn't logged-in (I was), so I logged in again and posted it, and then it was there twice! Not sure what happened there, whether it's a bug on the site or just me being stupid. If you're a moderator who's reading this, please delete one of them (I don't seem to be able to). |
| Wizardmon04-19-07, 06:17 PM | Yeah! More epic stuff! But seriously, Epic is sutch a huge topic that what is in the books only touches on the subject, and the Epic Level Handbook only scratches the surface. I feel that a new line of products should be released for it: Complete Epic - Covers and expands on Epic level subjects from previous D&D installments. Epic Magic - Revamps and expands on the Epic magic system Epic Monster Manual - Self Explanatory Dungeon Master's Guide to Epic Levels - Self Explanatory Player's Guide to Epic Levels - Self Explanatory Epic Magic Item Compendium - O.O OMG!!! |
| penchant04-23-07, 03:58 AM | Note only will I vote to publish a new Epic Level Handbook, but I will pledge to actually buy it! |
| vlad4321004-24-07, 11:07 PM | Count my vote, as well. And especially on the Epic Monsters / Epic Challenges thing. One thing I'd really like to see would be epic traps... the one truly epic game i ever ran (APL 27), I had to make up my own, and kept confusing the DCs. On a side note, thank you DF! In the same game, one of the characters finally failed his save vs. trap and was auto-teleported to a random level of hell. Because everything there is so wimpy, he more or less cleaned up and made the respective Lord of Nine cry. No more, with the new LoN stats! Yaaaay! -vlad43210. |
| Geraturatu04-28-07, 01:31 PM | In the Epic Level Handbook, it stated that what was there was a mere touch on the subject of epic levels and that it was up to the dm and players to make new ones. In fact, the DMG even says that the material in dnd books were merely guidlines (not the exact wording I admit, but close enough), so actually people were supposed to be making custom things long before epic levels. So... (Is it just me or am I ranting again?:confused:) |
| TheDarkestOfAngels04-28-07, 01:41 PM | In the Epic Level Handbook, it stated that what was there was a mere touch on the subject of epic levels and that it was up to the dm and players to make new ones. In fact, the DMG even says that the material in dnd books were merely guidlines (not the exact wording I admit, but close enough), so actually people were supposed to be making custom things long before epic levels. So... (Is it just me or am I ranting again?:confused:) I don't think the point of making the new book would be just to do that. In fact, I would consider it wasted space with the exception of perhaps more defined guidelines. So I don't think it was anyone's point to do that. This is because a ELH that just epic-isized all the current prestige classes and such could be an entire book on its own. What's needed is new and revised feats, some people want a new epic spellcasting system (I think it should be expanded and refined, but otherwise, I don't see a problem with it - particulary with the 'always have the DM check & approve it' clause), as well as a number of other things (high rank skill usage - you know - the ol' DC 120+ sleight of hand check to steal your own pants without knowing it) and epic challenges. Newer and more prominant monsters (as well as a few revised stats) for epic level monsters. That sort of thing - the sorts of things a new ELH should really deal with. |
| Geraturatu04-28-07, 02:53 PM | You're not listening to (er... reading) what I'm saying. In the DMG, they were saying that all the things that were in the core books were pretty much just guidlines, and that the best things were those that were created by the DM and players. All the supplement books were meant for other reasons I admit, but they were still guidlines. The Prestige classes were even suggested to be used as an example when creating you're own. Also, in the ELH, it said in all the sections that these were just examples and that the best parts of epic levels were those made by you (a.k.a. the one reading it). Asking them to put out more books on epic level would just slowly deminish a person's imagination since they don't use it much. The forums here are even used so people can show others their ideas and creations. Not trying to sound snappish or anything. If I affended anyone, sorry. |
| TheDarkestOfAngels04-28-07, 03:23 PM | You're not listening to (er... reading) what I'm saying. In the DMG, they were saying that all the things that were in the core books were pretty much just guidlines, and that the best things were those that were created by the DM and players. All the supplement books were meant for other reasons I admit, but they were still guidlines. The Prestige classes were even suggested to be used as an example when creating you're own. Also, in the ELH, it said in all the sections that these were just examples and that the best parts of epic levels were those made by you (a.k.a. the one reading it). Asking them to put out more books on epic level would just slowly deminish a person's imagination since they don't use it much. The forums here are even used so people can show others their ideas and creations. Not trying to sound snappish or anything. If I affended anyone, sorry. No offense taken, but what I was saying was that no one here was saying what you said people were saying... if that made sense. No one here just wants more prestige class/class progressions (it would be nice) but we do want more epic material such as those in my prior examples - monsters, feats, epic level prestige classes*, updated epic material, and POLISHED epic material, which is something the prior epic level handbook lacked. I believe that is the real meat of what people around here actually want - despite WotC seeming to think otherwise. Not that a whole second set of 'complete' books and the magic item compendium and their bazillionth and one dragon-related suppliment weren't all exemplary as their products usually are. *= Epic level prestige classes and not merely epic progressions of non-epic prestige classes. |
| Novabomb04-28-07, 08:03 PM | I hereby submit my name to the list. |
| runestar04-29-07, 08:51 AM | Nevermind...wrong thread... |
| aragorn5504-30-07, 12:16 PM | i would also like a more polished epic book please make sure to deal with diplomacy! an epic character can in theory talk anyone in to doing what they say even if they are stronger i would also apprectiate it if the made the change from non epic to epic more streamlined so it is less arbitrarry |
| Upper_Krust05-02-07, 12:00 PM | Hey guys! :) For those of you wanting an epic bestiary or more epic monsters... The Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary: Volume One (96 pages) print version is due for release on the 21st May 2007. Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary: Volume One (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1290&qsSeries=Flaming%20Cobra) /shameless plug. :P |
| CelestialBarbarian05-02-07, 04:23 PM | Nevermind...wrong thread... :rofl: By the way, I think by now it's pretty clear that Wizards isn't paying much mind to what we say here. They don't even care about the much more voluminous outcry against their canceling of the iconic Dragon, much less what we few brave epic souls have to say calmly (for the most part) here. |
| Hidden05-21-07, 02:58 AM | Epic all the way! |
| dragon22128405-24-07, 01:51 AM | 2) A better Epic Spellcasting system. Nuff said. NEED !!! |
| Thorsbjorn05-24-07, 09:13 AM | If you want more epic material you might want to go to http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=839396&page=20#post12476524 and tell the Wizards employees who post there. |
| Kokimoto05-25-07, 11:37 AM | New Epic Feats for Oriental Adventures. New Epic progression for Prestige Class of Rokugan !! |
| hawkinsthedm06-14-07, 12:07 PM | I throw in my vote for updated Epic content. I also throw in a vote for all of the other 3e material that should be updated to 3.5e like the Psionics Handbook was (i.e. Oriental Adventures [which I wouldn't mind seeing in Kara-Tur instead of Rokugan], Deities and Demigods, Book of Vile Darkness, and Manual of the Planes). |
| bluetooth06-14-07, 07:11 PM | I like to add my...err..."voice" to these others in saying that more epic material is wanted, needed, and would be profitable for them to put out. What would be especially good is a "Complete Epic" that provides epic material for everything in the complete series that has come so out far. Any more "Complete" books could come with an appendix that said "Addenda for Complete Epic" or something to that effect. |
| meave06-15-07, 05:04 AM | im in at least for the epic level handbook 3.5 and a seperate monster manual |
| stout06-21-07, 10:38 PM | SIGNED! Not sure if I signed this already and I wasn't about to poke 11 pages to find out. Dennis Stout |
| Jamesks06-26-07, 02:37 AM | As a member and prime DM of a group that plays almost entirely epic I am whole-heartedly for a fresh helping of Epic Material on my D&D plate. I truely do like the additional epic material that has found it's way into the complete books, but it like nibbling at a dry chicken bone when you can smell the feast; better then nothing but not by much. So lets see a new Epic Level Handbook for all of us, and like fruit cake at christmas, we can level Union out of this one and get to the good stuff. |
| Dragonblade27506-28-07, 06:43 PM | With the Epic Level Handbook being out of stock at the majority of online merchants, is there any hope of a Revised Epic Level Handbook v3.5? I hope so! |
| Mordayn06-29-07, 06:32 AM | Count me in, epic is in desperate need of an update IMO. |
| Sir_Galaguer06-29-07, 07:06 AM | More epic stuff please :w00t: |
| Amazing_Triangle06-30-07, 12:07 PM | I would love to see a 3.5 Epic Level Handbook taking into account all the new feats, abilities, substitution, and magic items. This would prove to be a truely epic book so they should make it like the old book big and beautiful! |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy06-30-07, 04:39 PM | Yeah, and clear up the Epic Spellcasting and give us more spells........also figure out a way to allow more lower level spells for the Epic Spellcasters because one Epic Spell every 10 lvls isn't gonna cut it. Hurry up and put out some other Epic supplements in the mean time. Supply and Demand is leaving you in the dust and other companies will spill it. The MONEY demands you give us something soon....If you need ideas, ask for them! We know you sit on dogpiles of stuff and most of it never sees print. Why waste good material by letting it rot! |
| athynz06-30-07, 08:15 PM | WoTC, please make 3 new epic books for 3.5 WITHOUT nerfing the heck out of it. Epic Players Guide Epic DMG Epic MM I agree - and even perhaps add to that list a Complete Epic book or an Epic Compendium that shows official epic level progressions for the various PrCs in the Complete books and other sources as well as magic items and spells for epic level characters. And some new epic PrCs as well... So heck yeah; let's see some new, updated, and kick-ass epic level material.:dancin: |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy07-01-07, 01:06 AM | I agree - and even perhaps add to that list a Complete Epic book or an Epic Compendium that shows official epic level progressions for the various PrCs in the Complete books and other sources as well as magic items and spells for epic level characters. And some new epic PrCs as well... So heck yeah; let's see some new, updated, and kick-ass epic level material.:dancin: Yeah, and a reup of Diety levels as Epic NPC's as well in an Epic Immortals Guide with rules for immortals and deities whom are way higher in levels than lower level players suspect. Also an Epic Planar and Planetary Handbook with the even more dangerous issues like politics and policy involving different planets and the planes. Including plane to plane, planet to plane and planet to planet criteria. Make them all Core because gamers need more Core books and if you want your sales to rise that will do it! As far as sales rising you should consider all the things on this and other pages and find as many ways to agree with as many as possible. Make them bigger books with very little fluff please. The reason I say that is that fluff can be gotten from players and campaign settings alike and except for giving examples they aren't needed. Besides the free fluff is getting higher in quality and if you want the industry to grow giving platforms for growth will give you outcomes......In other words your pet needs food and your plants need water and sun.........or they die! |
| Thorsbjorn07-01-07, 06:48 AM | Yeah, and a reup of Diety levels as Epic NPC's as well in an Epic Immortals Guide with rules for immortals and deities whom are way higher in levels than lower level players suspect. Also an Epic Planar and Planetary Handbook with the even more dangerous issues like politics and policy involving different planets and the planes. Including plane to plane, planet to plane and planet to planet criteria. Make them all Core because gamers need more Core books and if you want your sales to rise that will do it! As far as sales rising you should consider all the things on this and other pages and find as many ways to agree with as many as possible. Make them bigger books with very little fluff please. The reason I say that is that fluff can be gotten from players and campaign settings alike and except for giving examples they aren't needed. Besides the free fluff is getting higher in quality and if you want the industry to grow giving platforms for growth will give you outcomes......In other words your pet needs food and your plants need water and sun.........or they die! I too would like to see epic versions of the deities in Deities and Demigods. |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-02-07, 12:23 AM | Still no answers from wizards about this thread ? GRRR!!! Someone know a way of contacting them(preferably via email) I want ANSWERS!! |
| Thorsbjorn07-02-07, 05:18 PM | Still no answers from wizards about this thread ? GRRR!!! Someone know a way of contacting them(preferably via email) I want ANSWERS!! Bon jour! Ca va? You could aways write to Customer Service, but I'm sure they'll just tell you that they don't know. There's a thread under Future Products where we're talking about the so-called Digital Initiative (aka Dragon Interred) and I asked the question about the DI and epic material, but since they refuse to say anything of substance about DI, they naturally refused to say anything about epic and DI. Believe it or not at least three Wizards employees post responses on that thread, but they refuse to say anything of substance. :( |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-03-07, 04:58 AM | Its 'bonjour' in one word btw. But thanks I appreciated your effort to practice my magnificient language, that is french. 'Nyways I shall email them as soon as I can(that being mainly tonight don't have time for that before that), even if they say they don't know I'll TRY to bring their attention to this thread. Lets hope it works. |
| Thorsbjorn07-03-07, 07:24 AM | Its 'bonjour' in one word btw. But thanks I appreciated your effort to practice my magnificient language, that is french. 'Nyways I shall email them as soon as I can(that being mainly tonight don't have time for that before that), even if they say they don't know I'll TRY to bring their attention to this thread. Lets hope it works. Yeah, my initial inclination was to make "bonjour" one word, but it's been more than 30 years since I took French in high school and I second-guessed myself. This just goes to show the wisdom of the advice I give my students on taking multiple-choice exams: unless you're sure it's wrong, stick with your first choice. :P C'est vrai. :D Good luck trying to get them to pay attention. Please let us know what response, if you any, you get. I suspect that you're get a polite but unhelpful response, but it's at least possible that they'll suggest some way to contact someone who attention might actually make a difference. Bon chance! ;) |
| hawkinsthedm07-04-07, 01:53 AM | Bon jour! Ca va? You could aways write to Customer Service, but I'm sure they'll just tell you that they don't know. There's a thread under Future Products where we're talking about the so-called Digital Initiative (aka Dragon Interred) and I asked the question about the DI and epic material, but since they refuse to say anything of substance about DI, they naturally refused to say anything about epic and DI. Believe it or not at least three Wizards employees post responses on that thread, but they refuse to say anything of substance. :( Lol. Every time I have attempted to contact Wizards CS via email, I get nada in response. |
| Thorsbjorn07-05-07, 03:43 AM | Lol. Every time I have attempted to contact Wizards CS via email, I get nada in response. Really? Customer Service has never failed to respond to me--which is more than I can say for the board moderators--and usually within 24 hours. Are you sure you're using the right email address? I use wizardscusthelp@wizards.com. :) |
| Drew1369r07-08-07, 01:16 AM | //SIGNED// I want more... something a little less broken and less trouble on me when my group gets to epic... at least a revision |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-08-07, 04:21 AM | Alright here's what I sent them hope it was polite enough, and not too crapy considering that french is my first language: Hello there, I'm not sure I'm adressing myself to the right departement. I simply wanted to tell you guys at wizards, that the needs for epic-material, and a more substencial revision in the most recent version od D&D(v3.5) would be indeed very welcomed among the gamers/d&d community. On the boards/discussion-forums we started a thread concerning a petition wanting more epic-material for v3.5 and even a complete revision of the current Epic Lvl-Handbook, heck even an Epic-Monster Manual, Epic Dungeon Master-Guide and a Epic Players-Handbook would be great. Of course we know that is perhaps too much asking all of that of you guys, taking in consideration all the other stuff/books your working on. But I seriously think (among amy other on that thread apparently) that your missing a huge database of epic fans by not noticing or wanting to avoid producing mor epic-related material. Most persons and peoples on that thread also mentioned how the current epic spellcasting system seem's to be utterly broken and uselessly complicated. Admit it, the whole 'seeds' thingy seem's simple but its defitinely confusing! Here is the link for the thread in question: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=397116 P.S. Sorry my poor english quality, but know that this isn't my motherlanguage, I'm from Quebec and learned french before english thus maybe perhaps a kinda crapy english. I'm awaiting and hoping to some reply soon enough from you, to at least tell me what you guys think about this matter please! Sincerly yours, M.Cyr EDIT GOT THE ANSWER FROM WOTC CUSTOMER SERVICE: And here is the answer I got after nearly 48 hours, I though I should at least notify 'the d&d online community' of the rather very little progress I got: Guillaume, Thanks for your feedback! We have regular meetings with the administrative staff and will pass all relevant comments on to their attention. While we cannot guarantee a response to your feedback, we can promise that your comment will be heard. Good Gaming! We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. <a href="http://www.wizards.com/survey/custservemail0105.htm"> Please click here to fill out a short questionnaire</a>. To login to your account, or update your question please <a href="http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=cyrguillaume@hot mail.com&p_next_page=myq_ilp.php">click here</a>. Vincent Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST |
| Thorsbjorn07-11-07, 09:39 PM | Alright here's what I sent them hope it was polite enough, and not too crapy considering that french is my first language: That was about as good a reply as I could have imagined. Thanks for sharing it with us. :) |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-15-07, 01:44 PM | Thanks, lets hope they react somehow... |
| Thorsbjorn07-15-07, 02:57 PM | Thanks, lets hope they react somehow... I'm not holding my breath. So far the only reactions to the feedback they get from customers on the cancellation of Dragon has been anger that customers have the temerity to feel anger of the cancellation. They alternate between making light of customers' feelings and criticizing customers for having those feelings. In the two years since this thread began I've seen no official response to it at all. |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-18-07, 12:27 AM | If they don't do something quicly about it, then they're gonna lose me as a customer. And I'm gonna encourage the people I know to not bough their stuff anymore. In fact I haven't bough anything from them since a year. |
| rob_douglas07-18-07, 08:46 AM | Unfortunately, they still keep making stuff I want - Fiendish Codex, Expedition series. But boy do I wish they would update the ELH - or even authorize someone to do it for them! ROB |
| hawkinsthedm07-18-07, 11:49 AM | I'm not holding my breath. So far the only reactions to the feedback they get from customers on the cancellation of Dragon has been anger that customers have the temerity to feel anger of the cancellation. They alternate between making light of customers' feelings and criticizing customers for having those feelings. In the two years since this thread began I've seen no official response to it at all. Wizards really needs to work on its customer service and public relations. |
| hawkinsthedm07-18-07, 11:52 AM | Really? Customer Service has never failed to respond to me--which is more than I can say for the board moderators--and usually within 24 hours. Are you sure you're using the right email address? I use wizardscusthelp@wizards.com. :) Lol. I think I used the Ask Wizards email. |
| Thorsbjorn07-18-07, 04:26 PM | Unfortunately, they still keep making stuff I want - Fiendish Codex, Expedition series. But boy do I wish they would update the ELH - or even authorize someone to do it for them! ROB I'm not familiar with the Expedition series, but otherwise I concur. :) Wizards really needs to work on its customer service and public relations. I agree. The folks at Wizards say they anticipated anger over the cancellation of Dragon, but it seems fairly clear to me that they underestimated the anger by a couple of orders of magnitude. Customers view Dragon and an old friend, and the cancellation as an assassination of that old friend. Customers consequently are taking the cancellation very personally, and the employees at Wizards seem to be taking the outpouring of anger personally too. They refuse to say why they canceled Dragon, which throws more fuel on the fire, and now have taken at times to insulting the angry customers for having the temerity to feel upset, to refuse to buy new products, and especially to refuse to buy the new Digital Initiative without having even seen it. Of course it's Wizards' fault for linking the cancellation of Dragon with the DI. Lol. I think I used the Ask Wizards email. This is part of what makes the boards so nice. :) |
| hawkinsthedm07-18-07, 06:02 PM | I'm not familiar with the Expedition series, but otherwise I concur. :) The Expedition series is where they revisit old 2e modules, like the Demonweb Pits, Castle Ravenloft, Undermountain, and Castle Greyhawk (forthcoming). |
| Thorsbjorn07-18-07, 06:57 PM | The Expedition series is where they revisit old 2e modules, like the Demonweb Pits, Castle Ravenloft, Undermountain, and Castle Greyhawk (forthcoming). Ah, those. I took a look at he reviews of the Demonweb Pits product and they were mixed. Most of them said that it has a weak plot which served as a pretext for going from one dungeon crawl to another, so I didn't rush out to buy it. I have an old 1st Ed Castle Greyhawk product that's full of puns and jokes. Is the new one going to be more serious? |
| hawkinsthedm07-18-07, 11:47 PM | Ah, those. I took a look at he reviews of the Demonweb Pits product and they were mixed. Most of them said that it has a weak plot which served as a pretext for going from one dungeon crawl to another, so I didn't rush out to buy it. I have an old 1st Ed Castle Greyhawk product that's full of puns and jokes. Is the new one going to be more serious? I have no idea. I am a Realms guy myself. And it is too expensive to be dedicated to more than one campaign setting. |
| rob_douglas07-19-07, 10:56 AM | Yes - the joke one you have has been called anything from a joke to heresy on the Greyhawk lists for years. No one uses it as Canon. The Expedition to Castle Greyhawk will be based on the city of Greyhawk, Greyhawk Ruins (WGR1), Isle of the Ape, and Dungeonland. There is a blurb about it in the latest dragon magazine. The authors include noted Greyhawk sage Erik Mona. My only concern is that there were some nearly epic level features in the old Castle Ruins that are likely to be downplayed to lower levels. I still hope to bump the whole thing to epic, adding in the Circle of 5 (all epic wizards) if necessary. For example, there were a couple of artifacts including the Obelisk that controlled any magic in its presence, maybe using wild magic rules, and there was a table that could be used to scry anyone and double a wizards spells per day. Double! All of them! :) Anyway, looking forward to it, and hoping there are clear indications of how to make it Epic. I plan on doing the same with Demonweb Pits - making it Epic. Using the FC1 Demon Lord Aspects should help. ROB |
| hawkinsthedm07-19-07, 12:17 PM | Alright here's what I sent them hope it was polite enough, and not too crapy considering that french is my first language: Hello there, I'm not sure I'm adressing myself to the right departement. I simply wanted to tell you guys at wizards, that the needs for epic-material, and a more substencial revision in the most recent version od D&D(v3.5) would be indeed very welcomed among the gamers/d&d community. On the boards/discussion-forums we started a thread concerning a petition wanting more epic-material for v3.5 and even a complete revision of the current Epic Lvl-Handbook, heck even an Epic-Monster Manual, Epic Dungeon Master-Guide and a Epic Players-Handbook would be great. Of course we know that is perhaps too much asking all of that of you guys, taking in consideration all the other stuff/books your working on. But I seriously think (among amy other on that thread apparently) that your missing a huge database of epic fans by not noticing or wanting to avoid producing mor epic-related material. Most persons and peoples on that thread also mentioned how the current epic spellcasting system seem's to be utterly broken and uselessly complicated. Admit it, the whole 'seeds' thingy seem's simple but its defitinely confusing! Here is the link for the thread in question: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=397116 P.S. Sorry my poor english quality, but know that this isn't my motherlanguage, I'm from Quebec and learned french before english thus maybe perhaps a kinda crapy english. I'm awaiting and hoping to some reply soon enough from you, to at least tell me what you guys think about this matter please! Sincerly yours, M.Cyr What if we all wrote similar emails to WoTC CS? In a planned attempt to make sure that the subject actually got attention. If 20+ gamers all at once email CS that we want in the very least an Expanded Epic Level Handbook, then one of the higher-ups should probably actually hear about it instead of just filing it and blowing it off. |
| Sotha_syl07-19-07, 03:52 PM | I'll agree. I like the idea of Epic progression, and I certainly want to help my players enjoy an epic campaign. (The campaign I've DMed for on and off for over a year just reached level 20, and it's time to progress into the Epic Level Handbook) However, the 3.0 material just isn't up to par anymore. It's a good book, but it could be much, much better. There are some core flaws with how simple epic progression is (NO class features... :weep: ) and how few in number the epic PrCs are... the Epic Feats are great, and the Monsters section is pretty nice, but the Handbook is lacking a lot of things. I may not be the person to say what, but I think a 3.5 update is in order! I'm all for a 3.5 Epic update, and perhaps a Complete Epic to boot! |
| hawkinsthedm07-19-07, 05:39 PM | So, what date should we set for this mass-emailing, and who all is in? |
| Karanth07-20-07, 03:47 AM | OMG give me Epic! |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-20-07, 11:18 PM | So, what date should we set for this mass-emailing, and who all is in? I don't know, I already sent mine in but I guess I could write another. Oh my did I've done some major mistakes in spelling, even forgot words here and there urk! |
| hawkinsthedm07-21-07, 12:53 AM | I don't know, I already sent mine in but I guess I could write another. Oh my did I've done some major mistakes in spelling, even forgot words here and there urk! Dude, it did not look that bad. I read it without difficulty. I am trying to learn Japanese right now, and I totally understand the difficulties of trying to overcome grammar and spelling. ;) |
| StrahdVonZarovich07-21-07, 12:57 AM | Yeah I guess I'm not that sucky in english after all. Japaness? wow good luck there, its the world most complicated language or so I heard. |
| mariz_nobrega07-21-07, 05:39 PM | Signed. I for sure want to see a new (or two) epic book... |
| Vikingr07-23-07, 11:11 PM | Put my name on this, Hell yeah we want new materials, at least a strongly revised ELH to make a strong and stable base to this side of the game. Was my 2 copper peices. |
| jago66807-24-07, 04:00 AM | I'll put my name on this also. I would to have some decently put together epic stuffs. |
| Thorsbjorn07-25-07, 06:40 PM | Yes - the joke one you have has been called anything from a joke to heresy on the Greyhawk lists for years. No one uses it as Canon. The Expedition to Castle Greyhawk will be based on the city of Greyhawk, Greyhawk Ruins (WGR1), Isle of the Ape, and Dungeonland. There is a blurb about it in the latest dragon magazine. The authors include noted Greyhawk sage Erik Mona. My only concern is that there were some nearly epic level features in the old Castle Ruins that are likely to be downplayed to lower levels. I still hope to bump the whole thing to epic, adding in the Circle of 5 (all epic wizards) if necessary. For example, there were a couple of artifacts including the Obelisk that controlled any magic in its presence, maybe using wild magic rules, and there was a table that could be used to scry anyone and double a wizards spells per day. Double! All of them! :) Anyway, looking forward to it, and hoping there are clear indications of how to make it Epic. I plan on doing the same with Demonweb Pits - making it Epic. Using the FC1 Demon Lord Aspects should help. ROB I vaguely recall those old modules. I think I actually have Isle of the Ape somewhere. As I recall I bought it to run for a high-level group I was DMing, but I don't recall ever actually getting around to running it. I do recall the druid's player talking about how easily he could just take over the D&D version of King Kong, who in the module was basically just a big animal. Under 3rd Ed rules though he'll probably be either a magical beast or even an outsider, which should reduce a druid's ability to completely negate him as a challenge. I enjoyed some of the puns in the Castle Greyhawk adventure. I can see though why some people wouldn't like it. |
| rob_douglas07-26-07, 03:13 PM | Indeed, I used a Behemoth Gorilla for the giant apes in Isle of the Ape. Oonga is bigger than the others, so I advanced him. He did just fine. The other big thing I added in was to make the King (a T. Rex) into a Monster of Legend. There is some discussion of the changes here, for those interested: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1272 The Yugoloths at the end I bumped up, including using the Arcanaloth given above, and in general, if run right, the Solar won't show up, so the PCs are on their own. The Arcanaloth did nicely with TS and delayed Blast fireballs, and a wall of stone on which he put a Symbol for when TS ended. The PCs went from ready to attack to being hit with DBF, Empowered DBF, and seeing a wall in their way with a symbol of Paralysis on it, taking out 1 part member entirely before the battle was joined. The trip into Zagyg's mind became memorable, and I even put an epic spell into the wizard's head as a result of that encounter. The party were 19th at the time. Oh - and being a demiplane, I turned off all access to extradimensional spaces, so they had a bunhc of empty bags of holding, and couldn't get a lot of their stuff. Same with the Quiver of Ehlonna.... Ok, we are really off topic I just realized.... All I want is compiled existing rules, a serious attempt at errata, and recognition of what does not work and fixing it (Epic Spell mitigation rules, buff rules, costs), and then some better guidelines on epic advancement regarding PrCs, especially capstone abilities, etc. And a handling of spellcasting levels in PrCs and half casters that is consistent. They can start with the SRD revision thread and get more than half the work done for them. Oh, and perhaps some thought on existing new rules/spells, and how they should be changed/handled for epic (Celerity) since epic was not a thought in many of the feature designs.... ROB |
| Thorsbjorn07-26-07, 05:00 PM | Indeed, I used a Behemoth Gorilla for the giant apes in Isle of the Ape. Oonga is bigger than the others, so I advanced him. He did just fine. The other big thing I added in was to make the King (a T. Rex) into a Monster of Legend. There is some discussion of the changes here, for those interested: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1272 The Yugoloths at the end I bumped up, including using the Arcanaloth given above, and in general, if run right, the Solar won't show up, so the PCs are on their own. The Arcanaloth did nicely with TS and delayed Blast fireballs, and a wall of stone on which he put a Symbol for when TS ended. The PCs went from ready to attack to being hit with DBF, Empowered DBF, and seeing a wall in their way with a symbol of Paralysis on it, taking out 1 part member entirely before the battle was joined. The trip into Zagyg's mind became memorable, and I even put an epic spell into the wizard's head as a result of that encounter. The party were 19th at the time. Oh - and being a demiplane, I turned off all access to extradimensional spaces, so they had a bunhc of empty bags of holding, and couldn't get a lot of their stuff. Same with the Quiver of Ehlonna.... Ok, we are really off topic I just realized.... All I want is compiled existing rules, a serious attempt at errata, and recognition of what does not work and fixing it (Epic Spell mitigation rules, buff rules, costs), and then some better guidelines on epic advancement regarding PrCs, especially capstone abilities, etc. And a handling of spellcasting levels in PrCs and half casters that is consistent. They can start with the SRD revision thread and get more than half the work done for them. Oh, and perhaps some thought on existing new rules/spells, and how they should be changed/handled for epic (Celerity) since epic was not a thought in many of the feature designs.... ROB Thanks for the url and the other information on how you ran Isle of the Ape. I agree with you on what I'd like to see from Wizards. I'd especially like to see them keep Celerity as an extra action as reducing it as they did to haste would really cut the power of some epic creatures. |
| UsedIllusion07-26-07, 09:42 PM | I agree. I've run out of stuff that poses a threat to my PCs once they reach 15th level. And once they get a few Epic feats, they're damn near impossible to challenge (Aside from a Devastation Beetle of Hecatoncheires :). I've noticed too that a lot of the new stuff that comes out has hardly anything in it that's epic, which sucks. So stop screwing around and get to it! :) |
| Thorsbjorn07-26-07, 11:02 PM | I agree. I've run out of stuff that poses a threat to my PCs once they reach 15th level. And once they get a few Epic feats, they're damn near impossible to challenge (Aside from a Devastation Beetle of Hecatoncheires :). I've noticed too that a lot of the new stuff that comes out has hardly anything in it that's epic, which sucks. So stop screwing around and get to it! :) I find that NPCs with class levels work well, especially squads of them. :D |
| hawkinsthedm07-27-07, 12:13 PM | I agree. I've run out of stuff that poses a threat to my PCs once they reach 15th level. And once they get a few Epic feats, they're damn near impossible to challenge (Aside from a Devastation Beetle of Hecatoncheires :). I've noticed too that a lot of the new stuff that comes out has hardly anything in it that's epic, which sucks. So stop screwing around and get to it! :) For challenges for your PCs after 15th level, check out the Monster Manual V. That is one thing I was definitely grateful for when I bought it. |
| RamzaStromblade07-29-07, 04:03 PM | i myself have 2 20's and would like to see better sign me up also i am glad the dragononmicon came out it made making dragons better |
| Trystan07-30-07, 10:11 AM | Add my name to the Petition. Please include some of the Epic classes and feats from the Dungeon/Dragon Magazines. The popularity will take off once the players are given some good 3.5 informtion all in one place!! |
| Steve_G07-31-07, 12:59 PM | :w00t: Who's with me? :w00t: Count me as one that's with you. I would love to see more Epic stuff, but especially a v.3.5 ELH. |
| HolyGrenadeFrenzy07-31-07, 11:50 PM | StraudVonZarovich took the 777 post.......What are the odds? Epic Material would sell well yet I wonder if they can explain what all the additional spell levels for High Stat Scores were for in the next set of Epic Books because I really do want to see a 25th level spell......Not that anything except Epic Level Spell Casting is even hinted at. 1st and 2nd Edition Materials could be dragged out of the shelves for some of this even though you would have to go for something other than the TSR and WotC tittles it could be worth it.......especially for the villians! I am remembering a 13th level spell called Genocide in particular although there are more than that available! There should an Epic Codex of the Immortals or something for Epic Levels for Dieties and such. |
| StrahdVonZarovich08-07-07, 04:59 AM | StraudVonZarovich took the 777 post.......What are the odds? Heh, call me a lucky guy I guess. Although not THAT lucky, because it would seem's that our friends of the customer services or any other high-ups of wotc haven't reacted to this thread yet. |
| Thorsbjorn08-07-07, 05:56 AM | Heh, call me a lucky guy I guess. Although not THAT lucky, because it would seem's that our friends of the customer services or any other high-ups of wotc haven't reacted to this thread yet. Here's a thread where Wizard employees regularly post. You can go there and tell them that you want more epic material. I posted a url for the thread here a couple of months back but so far not a single person from here except for me has posted there about wanting epic material. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855120&page=30 |
| Gunz08-07-07, 02:52 PM | Hello, fellow players! My player character has recently stumbled upon a problem: he has acquired all te normal possible levels of MASSIVE AWESOMENESS!!!1! that WotC has provided for him. Therefore I wish to sign this petition, with the ultimate goal of acquiring more material that will allow my trusty character to increase to MORE ULTIMATE BRILLIANT ROCK 'N ROLL AWESOMENESS!!!1!!! Thank you. |
| hawkinsthedm08-07-07, 05:11 PM | Here's a thread where Wizard employees regularly post. You can go there and tell them that you want more epic material. I posted a url for the thread here a couple of months back but so far not a single person from here except for me has posted there about wanting epic material. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855120&page=30 I just put a post up on that thread asking the DI gurus. I wonder if I will get a response. |
| Thorsbjorn08-07-07, 05:16 PM | I just put a post up on that thread asking the DI gurus. I wonder if I will get a response. Good man, Hawkins! Of course I responded, but that doesn't count. :D Actually we probably should say, "Mike, will there be epic material in the DI?" but at best all he would say is, "there sure might be." At least they've heard you now. Thanks for posting there about epic material! :) |
| athynz08-08-07, 09:56 PM | Here's a thread where Wizard employees regularly post. You can go there and tell them that you want more epic material. I posted a url for the thread here a couple of months back but so far not a single person from here except for me has posted there about wanting epic material. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855120&page=30 Add another one to the list of people who put in a request for some new epic level material on that thread... hopefully they'll see it and run with it - though I'm not holding my breath on that. But the word is starting to get out there and it's a start. |
| hawkinsthedm08-09-07, 12:00 PM | I also introduced the concept of new Epic material on this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13360326), which was also started by a WotC employee. |
| Thorsbjorn08-09-07, 06:42 PM | Add another one to the list of people who put in a request for some new epic level material on that thread... hopefully they'll see it and run with it - though I'm not holding my breath on that. But the word is starting to get out there and it's a start. Woo-hoo! That's three of us so far. I saw your post there anthynz; thanks! I also introduced the concept of new Epic material on this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13360326), which was also started by a WotC employee. Excellent! Thanks for the url. I posted there too. |
| Thorsbjorn08-09-07, 06:44 PM | deleted |
| Kribage08-13-07, 11:53 PM | Hey guys, Here's a response from a recent PM to GamerZero: Heya Kirbage, Thanks for dropping me a note. The D&D folks are well aware of the demand for new epic material. They read the forums and have see that and other threads on the topic. I know that's not necessarily the answer you'd like to hear, but the truth is that the right WotC folks are already looped in on this request. Thanks, -Mike __________________ Mike Lescault Online Communities Manager Wizards of the Coast Host of Gamer Radio Zero So, for what its worth, at least the thread has been noticed. |
| StrahdVonZarovich08-14-07, 04:15 PM | Its about damn time... |
| hawkinsthedm08-16-07, 03:49 PM | Its about damn time... Or is it not quite in time? With the announcement of 4e, I have a bad feeling any new Epic material will be for the new system. That leaves 3.5e Epic material right back where it started: with a broken foundation upon which everything else is built. :weep: I have been feeling sick to my stomach all day. :hoppingma :headexplo |
| StrahdVonZarovich08-16-07, 04:08 PM | I don't know anything about ''ofiicial announcements for 4e'' as of yet. Oh please don't get me started on 4e again. Please leave this thread intact, we NEED it so badly. |
| rob_douglas08-16-07, 04:58 PM | Let's not debate 4E on this thread, but as for official announcement: http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/08/dungeons-dragon.html It was announced today. So I can only hope that they handle epic better in 4E.... sigh.... [edit: ok - planning to include up to 30th level....that helps me:] From here: http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/11123.html While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary." Other changes include new power sources, changes in resource management, and new encounter design, and more clearly defined monster roles. Changes will speed play, make the game easier to learn, and make DM-ing easier. Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG, and the Book of 9 Swords. ROB |
| Thorsbjorn08-16-07, 10:52 PM | Let's not debate 4E on this thread, but as for official announcement: http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/08/dungeons-dragon.html It was announced today. So I can only hope that they handle epic better in 4E.... sigh.... [edit: ok - planning to include up to 30th level....that helps me:] From here: http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/11123.html ROB Wow. How utterly disappointing. |
| Kribage08-20-07, 07:11 PM | I was at the big announcement at GenCon, and some of the following are quotes from that: "The new game will go to 30 levels, effectively including Epic-level play in the base game." "We are looking to expand D&D's 'sweet spot' (later referenced as 7-14th levels) to levels 1 through 30." "We are making more options for high-level encounters and play." First off, credit where credit is due, Wizards hasn't abandoned us. Psionics, campaign settings, base classes other than the core 4 (fighter, wizard, rogue, cleric) weren't even mentioned. But Epic-level play was. That means they know that it is important. Additionally, one of the loudest cheers from the relatively tepid crowd was after that last quote. This indicates to me we are not alone. That being said, some of that really gets me thinking they might not have all the answers. "Effectively including Epic-level play in the base game"? What about my game with my 33rd level characters? While 3.5 Epic was more full of holes than the plot of Plan 9, at least it did expand "infinitely". I hope they don't think that a new level cap "solves the problem of Epic-level play", especially since WotC has a tendency to say things like "Research shows 80% of Epic-level games consist of parties 21st to 30th level." Maybe they've got the causality loop reversed, and that most games are only that level because there is little to no support for higher level play. Anyway, no use really in speculating or preemptively complaining (as many are wont to do). We might as well wait till 4E and see what they have in the bag for us. One last thing, if they leave us out in the cold for higher than level 30 play, this thread will continue stronger than ever. |
| hawkinsthedm08-20-07, 09:05 PM | That still leaves us who do not plan to move to 4E right away with a broken 3E foundation for our 3.5E Epic play. That is part of what has me boiling about 4E. |
| rob_douglas08-21-07, 11:11 AM | I would then suggest that you contribute to the SRD Revision Thread, as it is absolutely crystal clear now that there are no 3.5E fixes for Epic coming. We might be able to retcon some 3.5E epic changes from the 4E stuff as well, you never know. ROB |
| hawkinsthedm08-21-07, 12:05 PM | I would then suggest that you contribute to the SRD Revision Thread, as it is absolutely crystal clear now that there are no 3.5E fixes for Epic coming. We might be able to retcon some 3.5E epic changes from the 4E stuff as well, you never know. ROB Then I will have to check it out. I have difficulty sifting through all the material in large threads though. |
| Thorsbjorn08-21-07, 04:12 PM | Then I will have to check it out. I have difficulty sifting through all the material in large threads though. Bluemage, who started the thread, posts all the changes in the first few messages, so they're relatively easy to find. In general the changes consist of ones that he favors, though I have seen him once or twice make a change he didn't prefer when the only responses he got disagreed with him. I seem to recall too once when he simply removed a change that the responders didn't agree with. So it's not 100% his house rules--more like 90% or 80%. By the way, speaking of epic material, I just noticed that in the final issue of Dragon Paizo introduced the a new epic creature called the time dragon. The CR ranges from 26 for a wyrmling (or 24 according to the sample wrymling in the article) to 99 for a great wrym. So while Wizards might have dropped the ball, Paizo didn't. I wonder if they'll do any other products with epic material for 3.5? Alas they don't have the legal authority to revise the broken epic rules. :( |
| malignor03-04-08, 11:55 AM | I personally love the idea of unbounded progression, and as such, Epic material is important. In fact, I love advancing monsters with HD, templates and class levels so much, that my worlds almost always are defined by certain epic elements (such as my CR 50+ advanced dragons with class levels being the only true dragons, all "drakes" being their half-dragon spawn). I want to see more unbounded progressions. I think anything should be able to advance without limit. Any animal should be a threat if it grows large enough. Also, any intelligent being should have a listed level adjustment (including awakened animals), even if it's variable. I mean c'mon, isn't D&D supposed to be a system supporting unlimited possibilities for classic stories, myths and legends to be played out? 200' tall awakened toads with class levels FTW! |
| Belfire03-07-08, 06:13 PM | I think that not having a Epic book would be sad, it would seem as though WotC almost doesn't care... But I know they do, and I KNOW that expanding is important to them... Right WotC? |
| rob_douglas03-08-08, 01:19 PM | It is clear that 3E Epic is off the table. They are going to 4E. At least a few heartening things have been mentioned about that, but the one that was not was unbounded progression. Good things about 4E Epic: Included from the beginning. 3E Epic was first added at the end of Bastion of Broken Souls, and in Forgotten Realms, then the ELH, then 3.5 core. 4E will be epic to start - but limited to 30th level overall. Many groups limit overall level - Dice Freaks used 50 HD for mortals. Could WotC chosen another limit? Sure, but they didn't. We will have to see if it is easy to make 31+ rules after it comes out. Multiclassing - Multiclassing will not cost you caster level! You may not have all the options of an equivalent level caster, but your spells won't be lesser. Saving Throws - instead you have attacks, that do keep going up, and appear to be able to go up at a comparable rate in Epic, so even at 30th level, your spells/powers are useful. Fixed Absolutes - there are many absolutes in 3E that seem to be challenged in 4E. These are the cause of many complaints on these boards, so fixing them should be a happy thing - Freedom of Movement, Energy Immunity, Poison Immunity, Death Ward - all are being reworked. Playable monsters - this will be a real challenge, but playing monsters in 4E doesn't come with the Level Adustment. Again, you will probably lose feats and some powers, but not effectiveness of attacks and defense as a result. Core rules won't tell you how to play a Dragon, but we will figure it out. ;) Gods are challengeable - The goal is to actually get to the point of challenging them. In 3 E there is a huge gap from even ELH monsters, and gods. No more PrCs - this goes with the multiclassing thing, but PrCs and class dipping caused many problems in 3E with balance, especially at Epic (Hierophant at Epic, War Hulk). The replacement Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are collections of powers, but retain your core class(es) and focus your abilities. (Though I am sure there are those that will find a way to break the system in time). Epic Adventures - coming in 2009 they promised prewritten Epic ADventures. Probably sooner in Dungeon magazine! However, I don't know that Epic Spellcasting will be in there. I think it needs something like that, but I have to see how Rituals and spells are implemented to know more. There are lots of concerns I have about 4E - don't get me wrong. I am not a new 4E fanboy. But I am heartened by some things I here. And I only play to 30th level anyway myself, so I know this works for me. I think that someone will come up with 31+ rules here on this board. We shall see. ROB |
| Thorsbjorn03-10-08, 12:07 AM | My group is sticking with 3.5 for the foreseeable future. |
| sin_vraal03-16-08, 08:26 PM | My group is sticking with 3.5 for the foreseeable future. Agreed. I dont actually have that many complaints with 3.5. Of the ones I do, all of them have relatively easy fixes. All the Prc Dipping and special abilities that make the game broken due to wotc making them w.o thinking about it. it is foolish to think they wont happen again in 4e. additionally, its not like you have to play with them. People who have played 2e and earlier, all remember the golden rule, "if it doesnt work in your campaign, just remove it! all rules are optional" |
| crazysamaritan03-18-08, 12:00 AM | Well, I can see who's been to the Min/Max forums.... or rather who hasn't. :rolleyes: |
| Thorsbjorn03-19-08, 07:04 PM | Agreed. I dont actually have that many complaints with 3.5. Of the ones I do, all of them have relatively easy fixes. All the Prc Dipping and special abilities that make the game broken due to wotc making them w.o thinking about it. it is foolish to think they wont happen again in 4e. additionally, its not like you have to play with them. People who have played 2e and earlier, all remember the golden rule, "if it doesnt work in your campaign, just remove it! all rules are optional" Yes, I find that the 3.5 rules work pretty well. I have various house rules for things that don't work as well, but many of these are just preferences on my part rather than fixes for things that are broken. 2nd Ed, AD&D, and indeed original D&D all had potentials for abuse and I've seen lots of abuse of those potentials over the 30 years I've played the game. :D Oh, I should add that it appears that 4e won't even allow prestige classes. Since prestige classes, templates and non-standard races play important roles in my current campaign, there's no way I'm switching to 4e. Well, I can see who's been to the Min/Max forums.... or rather who hasn't. :rolleyes: Are you rolling your eyes at the people who find ways to abuse the rules, or at those of us who've had the temerity not to abuse them? :D |
| BillTheManiac03-19-08, 09:12 PM | Are you rolling your eyes at the people who find ways to abuse the rules, or at those of us who've had the temerity not to abuse them? :D I think those who don't know how the rules are actually abused. I think Tempest Stormwind best summed it up when he said something like Your DM is afraid of DESERT WIND? |
| crazysamaritan03-20-08, 12:36 AM | I think those who don't know how the rules are actually abused. I think Tempest Stormwind best summed it up when he said something like Right, broken abilities don't come from PrC dipping. The ability to multiclass makes the game a level-based format, rather than class-based (like WoW) or stat-based (like Vampires). The worst things come from the rules themselves, (improvised weapons and carrying capacity, anyone?) not from a second level PrC ability. |
| Thorsbjorn03-20-08, 12:58 AM | Right, broken abilities don't come from PrC dipping. The ability to multiclass makes the game a level-based format, rather than class-based (like WoW) or stat-based (like Vampires). The worst things come from the rules themselves, (improvised weapons and carrying capacity, anyone?) not from a second level PrC ability. Are you making a joke, or do you seriously mean that you've seen the rules on improvised weapons and carrying capacity cause abuses? :confused: |
| PrinceOfTheVoid03-20-08, 08:53 AM | Sounds like Hulking Hurler to me. |
| rob_douglas03-20-08, 11:06 AM | Yes, I find that the 3.5 rules work pretty well. I have various house rules for things that don't work as well, but many of these are just preferences on my part rather than fixes for things that are broken. 2nd Ed, AD&D, and indeed original D&D all had potentials for abuse and I've seen lots of abuse of those potentials over the 30 years I've played the game. :D I mentioned a few more things on there - like the complaints people have about BAB, Caster level issues, Saves outpacing spells - making them useless, Magic Item creation time and costs, and the unreasonableness of the way the "Economy" of DND works (I mean, giving up 25K XP for +5 inherent bonuses is a pretty big deal for the crafter - not really equal to the 128K you need to pay to get a book that does it). Time and time again people come to this site looking for fixes and asking questions, most of which are fundamentally based on the fact that Epic was added on. But if you don't have problems, don't switch. I am finding my 3.5 Epic campaign harder and harder to maintain. I only HOPE that 4E offers some respite - I don't KNOW that it will. But I like what I see. Oh, I should add that it appears that 4e won't even allow prestige classes. Since prestige classes, templates and non-standard races play important roles in my current campaign, there's no way I'm switching to 4e. PrCs are handled differently. Some things will instead be a class ability tree. Some will be Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies - collections of abilities you take from 11-20 and 21-30 respectively. In most cases, a PrC is related strongly to a base class. So making these new abilities options for the class works. It is like Alternate Class features - but every class gets new class features virtually every level, so there is more room to spread things like PrCs around. Again, we shall see how it is implemented, but I have already reconcepted my Epic PCs from what I have seen - and they actually might work out better. The Fighter12/Sor1/DragonDisciple10 will likely become a Dragonborn Warlord 23. Paladin15/DivineAgent7 will become a Paladin 22 with the God's Right Hand Epic Destiny (or something like that). I will be glad to share here how it goes when we get there - it is months off. ROB |
| Thorsbjorn03-20-08, 11:32 AM | I mentioned a few more things on there - like the complaints people have about BAB, Caster level issues, Saves outpacing spells - making them useless, Magic Item creation time and costs, and the unreasonableness of the way the "Economy" of DND works (I mean, giving up 25K XP for +5 inherent bonuses is a pretty big deal for the crafter - not really equal to the 128K you need to pay to get a book that does it). Time and time again people come to this site looking for fixes and asking questions, most of which are fundamentally based on the fact that Epic was added on. But if you don't have problems, don't switch. I am finding my 3.5 Epic campaign harder and harder to maintain. I only HOPE that 4E offers some respite - I don't KNOW that it will. But I like what I see. PrCs are handled differently. Some things will instead be a class ability tree. Some will be Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies - collections of abilities you take from 11-20 and 21-30 respectively. In most cases, a PrC is related strongly to a base class. So making these new abilities options for the class works. It is like Alternate Class features - but every class gets new class features virtually every level, so there is more room to spread things like PrCs around. Again, we shall see how it is implemented, but I have already reconcepted my Epic PCs from what I have seen - and they actually might work out better. The Fighter12/Sor1/DragonDisciple10 will likely become a Dragonborn Warlord 23. Paladin15/DivineAgent7 will become a Paladin 22 with the God's Right Hand Epic Destiny (or something like that). I will be glad to share here how it goes when we get there - it is months off. ROB Yes, please let us know how it goes. Can you play a half-celestial, astral deva, or dragon under the 4e rules? |
| Nezkrul03-20-08, 02:43 PM | With 4E coming out, 3.5 will never get new epic material in print. Not like us boarders needed it, we can make up our own stuff! :P but just in case, /sign |
| Thorsbjorn03-20-08, 02:46 PM | With 4E coming out, 3.5 will never get new epic material in print. Not like us boarders needed it, we can make up our own stuff! :P but just in case, /sign Maybe we should start a petition for new epic material over at the Paizo website for their new Pathfinder RPG 3.5 update. |
| hawkinsthedm03-20-08, 05:15 PM | Maybe we should start a petition for new epic material over at the Paizo website for their new Pathfinder RPG 3.5 update. I think that that would be sensible, but I would not expect it in their initial Pathfinder RPG rulebook. |
| Thorsbjorn03-20-08, 05:22 PM | I think that that would be sensible, but I would not expect it in their initial Pathfinder RPG rulebook. (singing) But then they sent me away To teach me how to be sensible Logical, oh responsible, practical. Seriously though, do you want to do it or should I? I have started several threads there already on the new Pathfinder RPG, including one where I mentioned that the alpha rules seem to deal with epic levels by making experience requirements for the higher non-epic levels so high that nobody can actually reach epic. :P |
| hawkinsthedm03-20-08, 07:08 PM | I am not really all that well acquainted with Paizo's forums, I only have an account so far for purchasing purposes. So I think that it would be better if you did. |
| rob_douglas03-21-08, 07:35 AM | Half-celestial looks to be an option, though with a different name. They are doing things to get rid of Level adjustment altogether. Astral Deva and Dragon will be harder - it won't be core, but I think it will work. I hope it will work - we have a Dragon as a cohort in my game. Dragons are tough because the specifically made them more powerful solo monsters in 4E. They get more actions in a round than similar level creatures. I will let you know how it goes. ROB |
| Thorsbjorn03-21-08, 01:43 PM | Half-celestial looks to be an option, though with a different name. They are doing things to get rid of Level adjustment altogether. Astral Deva and Dragon will be harder - it won't be core, but I think it will work. I hope it will work - we have a Dragon as a cohort in my game. Dragons are tough because the specifically made them more powerful solo monsters in 4E. They get more actions in a round than similar level creatures. I will let you know how it goes. ROB What do they call the equivalent of a half-celestial? Well please do keep letting us know about it. Perhaps if it's actually possible to run all these different characters in 4e I might consider switching in 2 or 3 years. I doubt it, but at least maybe 4e won't turn out to be quite as bad as it seems. |
| rob_douglas03-23-08, 08:46 PM | We shall see. I believe they are just called Celestials. The interesting thing in 4E is how you get some kind of race based abilities based on level - an extension of half-celestials. So at first you might be closer to an aasimar, and then later gain more racial abilities. This was one concern they had was that with LA, you gave up a lot of levels to gain abilities which were static and then you might outgrow. They noted that level in 3E was more important than race in defining your character - so a 20th level elf or dwarf fighter might not look all that different, for instance. I think it will still take a lot of work to make some races playable, but the way it looks to me (and I still don't have the books, I am going off what I can glean from sneak peaks) is that you could extend their powers at higher levels so that they don't just tromp off to become a different class, but actually improve their racial abilities as well. A Balor Fighter might not exist, but a higher level Balor might be more powerful, and have more abilities, etc. I guess we will see more in June. Until then... ROB |
| Thorsbjorn03-24-08, 12:58 AM | We shall see. I believe they are just called Celestials. The interesting thing in 4E is how you get some kind of race based abilities based on level - an extension of half-celestials. So at first you might be closer to an aasimar, and then later gain more racial abilities. This was one concern they had was that with LA, you gave up a lot of levels to gain abilities which were static and then you might outgrow. They noted that level in 3E was more important than race in defining your character - so a 20th level elf or dwarf fighter might not look all that different, for instance. I think it will still take a lot of work to make some races playable, but the way it looks to me (and I still don't have the books, I am going off what I can glean from sneak peaks) is that you could extend their powers at higher levels so that they don't just tromp off to become a different class, but actually improve their racial abilities as well. A Balor Fighter might not exist, but a higher level Balor might be more powerful, and have more abilities, etc. I guess we will see more in June. Until then... ROB Well you make it sound better than the Wizards sycophants on the Doomsday thread do. They spend so much time insulting 3.5 and anyone who likes 3.5 that they undoubtedly end up making 4e sound worse than it is. I've told them that they're actually hurting 4e sales by insulting us, but they think I'm just saying that to insult them. Anyway from what you say, there's still some possibility that I might convert in two or three years. I just don't feel any need though for a new system: 3.5 works admirably well for us. |
| Allarian03-28-08, 01:41 AM | [/signed] Epic has been severly underdeveloped. And I would like to see that changed. |
| Upper_Krust04-03-08, 11:38 AM | Hi all! :) At the risk of shilling one's own work you might want to check out my Immortals Handbook: ASCENSION pdf on RPGNow. http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=55116 Of particular interest herein might be chapter four... Chapter 4 - Powers: Introduces metamartial maneouvers to make epic combat more exciting and versatile. The bulk of this chapter however details 123 new epic feats, 211 divine abilities, 105 cosmic abilities, 55 transcendental abilities and 24 omnific abilities. [/End Shameless Plug] :embarrass |
| rob_douglas04-16-08, 11:25 PM | For anyone interested - here are some tidbits regarding 4th edition epic: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080416a What I learned is that making Epic characters seems easier than in 3.5 (skills are simpler, feats include allowed retraining, as do powers, so you don't have to worry as much about building in order). Also, magic items are fewer but presumably more powerful. Some things that change include a greater power gap between old 18th level and new 21st level characters - in 3.5E there is not that much difference. I wonder if the new "epic" might not translate old 15th level to 20th, and not really hit existing Epic capabilities until 26th or so. Information on Rituals gives a better idea on which spells ended up there as opposed to as powers. More when I know more, but I certainly intend on statting up some 30th level characters when I get the books, just to see if they "look right". More as I know it. ROB |