Random Feat Ideas (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Random Feat Ideas (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bluetooth
06-15-07, 09:47 AM ok here's some ideas I've been mulling over. First are the epic feat groups. First and foremost it doesn't actually make sense to me that you pick a feat or an epic feat when epic feats are so much better. Second, sometimes you need a nonepic feat to help you qualify for epic feats that you wanted. I'm just going to list 3 of these types of feats to show the concept but there's almost limitless ways to handle them.

All of the follow 3 feats are epic feats that grant 3 non-epic feats within a single category of feat. You may treat any of these feats as prerequistes for any other feat you select at the same time. For instance, the Item creation group allows you to select Craft Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Construct all at once.

Feat Group (Item Creation) [Epic,Item Creation]
Benefit: select any three nonepic Item Creation feats for which you qualify.

Feat Group (Metamagic) [Epic,Metamagic]
Benefit: select any three nonepic metamagic feats for which you qualify.

Feat Group (Fighter) [Epic, Fighter Bonus]
Benefit: select any three nonepic fighter bonus feats for which you qualify.

The other feat I was considering might be too powerful as a single feat. If so it can be split into multiple feats easily enough, but I'm going to list the single feat version anyway.

Mitigating Metamagic [Epic,Metamagic]
Prerequiste: Any Metamagic feat
Benefit: You may apply any metamagic feat you know reversing the effect in order to offset the effects of other metamagic feats. For instance, if you used this feat in conjuction with Enlarge spell, the spell would then have a range of of half it's normal range and reduce the overall metamagic penalty by one (minimum zero). If you used this feat in conjuction with empower the spell would do [Edit] 2/3 times the damage and reduce the overall metamagic penalty by 2.

Example: A wizard could prepare a fireball spell with a range of 200 feet plus 20 feet/level that [EDIT] had a 10 foot radius, but quickened without using a higher level slot. (Reverse Enlarge, Reverse Widen, Quicken)

Ok, so I'm not exactly sure how reversing Quicken and some of the others would work but some are straitforward such as Extend, Empower, Enlarge, Widen, even Maximize though I can't think of any reason someone would want to minimize the damage of a spell they cast. There probably needs to be an additional caveat to prevent contradictions, but I'm not sure what the wording would be.

Also, I'm thinking of limiting this to Arcane casters and making it a response to divine metamagic.
BillTheManiac
06-15-07, 11:09 AM Technically it should be 2/3s. Reverse quickened might be too good if it turned 1 standard to 1 round. Reverse maximised should be a bit more then half. How about halving the die? 1d2 to 1, 1d4 to 1d2, 1d6 to 1d3, 1d8 to 1d4, 1d10 to 1d5.
bluetooth
06-15-07, 08:14 PM You're right, I did my math wrong. Pretty sad for a math major...and I was thinking reverse quicken would make a spell take 2 full round actions.

So I have to ask are you saying that having Mitigating Metamagic (or possibly just 'Reverse Metamagic') as a single feat doesn't seem particularly overpowered?

Also, any thoughts on the feat groups?
BillTheManiac
06-15-07, 09:14 PM I suck at balance.

Don't worry. Wizards things 4/3=3/2=sqrt(2). That's how the entire EL/XP system works.
bluemage55
06-16-07, 04:50 AM The feat groups are probably overpowered. I'd cut it down to two, and require prerequisites:

ITEM CREATION MASTERY [Epic]
Prerequisite: Any one epic item creation feat.
Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic item creation feats.

METAMAGIC MASTERY [Epic]
Prerequisite: Any one epic metamagic feat.
Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic metamagicfeats.

FIGHTING MASTERY [Epic]
Prerequisite: Any one fighter epic bonus feat.
Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic fighter bonus feats.
bluetooth
06-17-07, 03:39 PM that sounds reasonable. While epic feats are significantly more powerful than non-epic, I don't think it would be reasonable to say that any 2 or 3 feats can replace them. But with proper limitation, I think 2 or 3 feats is appropriate.

In a system with action points, I'd keep your prereqs and make it 3 but with some kind of action point requirement for switching between them.

EDIT: Though I would add the appropriate descriptors to your feats though, so Fighting Mastery can be taken as an epic fighter bonus feat (for instance)
Balthanon
06-17-07, 03:51 PM The feat groups are probably overpowered. I'd cut it down to two, and require prerequisites:

Particularly with metamagic, I think requiring the epic feat as a prerequisite and cutting it down to 2 is a good idea. There are what... 2 epic metamagic feats? I would say that 9 times out of 10, standard metamagic feats are going to be as efficient or better, if only because of the variety.

I know I would take say... Persistant Spell versus either of the epic feats. Of course, in my games, I believe Persistant Spell will be an epic feat if it every comes up, so...
rob_douglas
06-19-07, 11:16 AM I like Bluemage's ideas - I was thinking of something similar. Although I was thinking that for Item Creation, granting even all non-epic item creation wasn't overpowered - because basically you can't use more than one at a time anyway, and you still have to pay the costs, and Efficient Item Creation would still need to be taken for each type you wanted to do faster.

Brew Potion and Craft Wand are virtually useless at epic. Scribe Scroll is most useful before Epic, so they probably have that already. The main gains I see is that someone would gain access to Forge Ring and Craft Rod - since those are the least likely ones I see for someone to take pre-epic.

I agree that metamagic and fighter feats should be limited to 2 though. Those are more powerful feats in that they can stack and be used simultaneously.

As for Epic Metamagic feats - Enhance can be taken more than once, and Automatic (Quicken/Silent/Still) were noted as Metamagic feats in Complete Arcane, as someone else reminded me, and since Sudden are also metamagic in there, I would agree with that labelling. So that gives you a few more epic metamagic feats to choose from. But you are right - Persistent is a lot more useful at epic than it was pre-epic.

ROB
Balthanon
06-19-07, 12:31 PM I would say that granting all of the pre-epic Item Creation feats, or even just saying you can craft all non-epic items, would be fair. Though if you expand outside of the core set in the PHB, there are a few other types that could be useful post epic-- like the Graft feats or the Sceptre feat in Lost Empires of Faerun.
rob_douglas
06-19-07, 01:52 PM And Constructs. OK, I would say limit it specifically to the Core Item Creation feats, and let the DM who wants to add in non-core ones. Don't include Craft Concstruct - that is a pretty specific feat.

ROB
Kesuk2k5
06-19-07, 09:33 PM Had this as an idea for a while, I'll toss it up here.

Bringer of Morning [Epic]
Prerequisites: Sun domain, ability to cast 9th-level divine spells
OR
Knowledge (nature) 25 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level divine spells
OR
Knowledge (arcana) 25 ranks, ability cast 9th-level arcane spells.
Benefit: All spells you cast with the light descriptor have a chance of dispelling any darkness spell in their area when first cast (as dispel magic, 1d20 + caster level [max +10]). Furthermore, the light generated by the spell is for all intents and purposes considered to be natural sunlight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bluetooth 06-15-07, 09:47 AM	ok here's some ideas I've been mulling over. First are the epic feat groups. First and foremost it doesn't actually make sense to me that you pick a feat or an epic feat when epic feats are so much better. Second, sometimes you need a nonepic feat to help you qualify for epic feats that you wanted. I'm just going to list 3 of these types of feats to show the concept but there's almost limitless ways to handle them. All of the follow 3 feats are epic feats that grant 3 non-epic feats within a single category of feat. You may treat any of these feats as prerequistes for any other feat you select at the same time. For instance, the Item creation group allows you to select Craft Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Construct all at once. Feat Group (Item Creation) [Epic,Item Creation] Benefit: select any three nonepic Item Creation feats for which you qualify. Feat Group (Metamagic) [Epic,Metamagic] Benefit: select any three nonepic metamagic feats for which you qualify. Feat Group (Fighter) [Epic, Fighter Bonus] Benefit: select any three nonepic fighter bonus feats for which you qualify. The other feat I was considering might be too powerful as a single feat. If so it can be split into multiple feats easily enough, but I'm going to list the single feat version anyway. Mitigating Metamagic [Epic,Metamagic] Prerequiste: Any Metamagic feat Benefit: You may apply any metamagic feat you know reversing the effect in order to offset the effects of other metamagic feats. For instance, if you used this feat in conjuction with Enlarge spell, the spell would then have a range of of half it's normal range and reduce the overall metamagic penalty by one (minimum zero). If you used this feat in conjuction with empower the spell would do [Edit] 2/3 times the damage and reduce the overall metamagic penalty by 2. Example: A wizard could prepare a fireball spell with a range of 200 feet plus 20 feet/level that [EDIT] had a 10 foot radius, but quickened without using a higher level slot. (Reverse Enlarge, Reverse Widen, Quicken) Ok, so I'm not exactly sure how reversing Quicken and some of the others would work but some are straitforward such as Extend, Empower, Enlarge, Widen, even Maximize though I can't think of any reason someone would want to minimize the damage of a spell they cast. There probably needs to be an additional caveat to prevent contradictions, but I'm not sure what the wording would be. Also, I'm thinking of limiting this to Arcane casters and making it a response to divine metamagic.
BillTheManiac 06-15-07, 11:09 AM	Technically it should be 2/3s. Reverse quickened might be too good if it turned 1 standard to 1 round. Reverse maximised should be a bit more then half. How about halving the die? 1d2 to 1, 1d4 to 1d2, 1d6 to 1d3, 1d8 to 1d4, 1d10 to 1d5.
bluetooth 06-15-07, 08:14 PM	You're right, I did my math wrong. Pretty sad for a math major...and I was thinking reverse quicken would make a spell take 2 full round actions. So I have to ask are you saying that having Mitigating Metamagic (or possibly just 'Reverse Metamagic') as a single feat doesn't seem particularly overpowered? Also, any thoughts on the feat groups?
BillTheManiac 06-15-07, 09:14 PM	I suck at balance. Don't worry. Wizards things 4/3=3/2=sqrt(2). That's how the entire EL/XP system works.
bluemage55 06-16-07, 04:50 AM	The feat groups are probably overpowered. I'd cut it down to two, and require prerequisites: ITEM CREATION MASTERY [Epic] Prerequisite: Any one epic item creation feat. Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic item creation feats. METAMAGIC MASTERY [Epic] Prerequisite: Any one epic metamagic feat. Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic metamagicfeats. FIGHTING MASTERY [Epic] Prerequisite: Any one fighter epic bonus feat. Benefit: Gain two bonus non-epic fighter bonus feats.
bluetooth 06-17-07, 03:39 PM	that sounds reasonable. While epic feats are significantly more powerful than non-epic, I don't think it would be reasonable to say that any 2 or 3 feats can replace them. But with proper limitation, I think 2 or 3 feats is appropriate. In a system with action points, I'd keep your prereqs and make it 3 but with some kind of action point requirement for switching between them. EDIT: Though I would add the appropriate descriptors to your feats though, so Fighting Mastery can be taken as an epic fighter bonus feat (for instance)
Balthanon 06-17-07, 03:51 PM	The feat groups are probably overpowered. I'd cut it down to two, and require prerequisites: Particularly with metamagic, I think requiring the epic feat as a prerequisite and cutting it down to 2 is a good idea. There are what... 2 epic metamagic feats? I would say that 9 times out of 10, standard metamagic feats are going to be as efficient or better, if only because of the variety. I know I would take say... Persistant Spell versus either of the epic feats. Of course, in my games, I believe Persistant Spell will be an epic feat if it every comes up, so...
rob_douglas 06-19-07, 11:16 AM	I like Bluemage's ideas - I was thinking of something similar. Although I was thinking that for Item Creation, granting even all non-epic item creation wasn't overpowered - because basically you can't use more than one at a time anyway, and you still have to pay the costs, and Efficient Item Creation would still need to be taken for each type you wanted to do faster. Brew Potion and Craft Wand are virtually useless at epic. Scribe Scroll is most useful before Epic, so they probably have that already. The main gains I see is that someone would gain access to Forge Ring and Craft Rod - since those are the least likely ones I see for someone to take pre-epic. I agree that metamagic and fighter feats should be limited to 2 though. Those are more powerful feats in that they can stack and be used simultaneously. As for Epic Metamagic feats - Enhance can be taken more than once, and Automatic (Quicken/Silent/Still) were noted as Metamagic feats in Complete Arcane, as someone else reminded me, and since Sudden are also metamagic in there, I would agree with that labelling. So that gives you a few more epic metamagic feats to choose from. But you are right - Persistent is a lot more useful at epic than it was pre-epic. ROB
Balthanon 06-19-07, 12:31 PM	I would say that granting all of the pre-epic Item Creation feats, or even just saying you can craft all non-epic items, would be fair. Though if you expand outside of the core set in the PHB, there are a few other types that could be useful post epic-- like the Graft feats or the Sceptre feat in Lost Empires of Faerun.
rob_douglas 06-19-07, 01:52 PM	And Constructs. OK, I would say limit it specifically to the Core Item Creation feats, and let the DM who wants to add in non-core ones. Don't include Craft Concstruct - that is a pretty specific feat. ROB
Kesuk2k5 06-19-07, 09:33 PM	Had this as an idea for a while, I'll toss it up here. Bringer of Morning [Epic] Prerequisites: Sun domain, ability to cast 9th-level divine spells OR Knowledge (nature) 25 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level divine spells OR Knowledge (arcana) 25 ranks, ability cast 9th-level arcane spells. Benefit: All spells you cast with the light descriptor have a chance of dispelling any darkness spell in their area when first cast (as dispel magic, 1d20 + caster level [max +10]). Furthermore, the light generated by the spell is for all intents and purposes considered to be natural sunlight.