Reason behind epic items pricing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Reason behind epic items pricing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gunz
08-07-07, 03:30 PM Is there a reason behind the prices of epic items? I find it kind of strange that my Gloves of Dexterity +6 cost 36,000GP, and then suddenly for a +1 extra bonus I need to pay 490,000GP :eek: Or that my +5 Vorpal Longsword costs around 200,000GP, and if I want a +6 Vorpal Longsword I suddenly need to pay over 2.4 million GP (epic +11 item) ? Or that a Belt of Magnificence +6 is a given for any 20th level character, but I can't even find on what level your "average wealth" allows you to buy a belt of magnificence +8, which is a measily +1 modifier extra (MIC goes to 30 with 4.3 Mil to spend... BoM +8 is 5.44 Mil).

Do I miss something? Are my calculations off? Is the only table I found on epic wealth (the one in MIC) completely off?

This has probably been brought up before, I have searched the forums for over an hour, but with the sucky search here and google not yet having indexed everything yet (stupid new site name) it was quite useless.
Holy_Beholder
08-07-07, 04:55 PM They multiplied the price of everything by 10, probably to showcase how special stuff is above 20th level.
rob_douglas
08-07-07, 04:58 PM This is the correct pricing. Epic items have a built-in "Hold on" factor that makes you take time before acquiring them. You can't make most of them until you are 24th level anyway, as the crafting feats needed come in to play then.

Epic wealth scales very fast. This helps slow down the amount by which you increase your abilities corresponding to wealth. In some ways they were not as successful as they thought they would be.

ROB
Oakspar77777
08-07-07, 05:34 PM The reason behind the pricing is to stop the normal progression of incrimentally inproving a dozen different items step by step. Epic items are meant to be just that, EPIC.

Increasing the cost by X10 means that you will likely stop improving that Belt of ST, and rather spend the money for other items that round out the character and broaden them rather than continue to hone the usually narrow edge of a lower level character.

That way, when characters do get that +8 Longsword of all Five Elements, it truely is something spectacular, and not just the normal slow leveling of items.

I usually find that, depending on the character, one epic item per 10 levels is about right.
Witch
08-07-07, 06:29 PM It completely depends, actually. At low epic, characters ought to be encouraged to mostly use non-epic items. At later epic, epic items will become cheap enough to use again.
DungeonMogrii
08-07-07, 07:53 PM Has anyone here ever tried to price them as just improved version of the non-epic items? How much would a game be affected if you just droped that x10 in the prices?
Frobojoe
08-07-07, 09:09 PM Has anyone here ever tried to price them as just improved version of the non-epic items? How much would a game be affected if you just droped that x10 in the prices?

Well, you'd have to drastically slow down the wealth-by-level progression, but if you did that, I think things would go a lot smoother.
Tequila_Sunrise
08-08-07, 02:24 AM A lot of people find epic pricing unwieldy, to say the least. The best solution that I've seen so far is to incrementally work up to the X10 multiplier. For example, a +6 sword costs X2 normal, a +7 costs X3 normal, etc...
bluemage55
08-08-07, 08:23 AM The purpose of the epic modifier is to prevent access to non-epic characters.

For example, with regular pricing, it would be easily possible for a 20th-level character to purchase +8 enhancement bonus items for 64,000 gp.

The epic pricing creates a "reset" so that characters have as much access to epic equipment as characters 20 levels lower do for magical equipment. This is punctuated by the fact that the epic crafting feats are set exactly 20 levels after the original feats.

Thus, a 25th-level fighter has a large number of regular magic items, but only a small number of epic magic items, just like a 5th-level character has a large number of mundane equipment, but only a few magical items.
Oakspar77777
08-08-07, 11:37 AM I meantioned part of this in another thread a second ago, but it bears repeating. Early epic characters have other things to do with their money.

1 - Finishing up other item chains. Yes, your fighter will have maxed out his sword by level 20, but what about his bow? Or his dagger? The second set of armor that he sleeps in?

2 - Broadening equipment. There are only so many slots on a body, so maybe it is time for the Monk to stop trading off WS bonus for NAC or CN. Put that CN bonus on the +6 Belt of ST. Add WS to that Amulet of NAC. Put DX on a Vest, so that you can max out Bracers of armor. Add Greater Resistance (a flat cost not a +X bonus) to all five element to your armor. Etc, etc, etc.

3 - Improve your stats. For the low low cost of five scrolls of Wish, your party's arcane caster can add 5 to one of your stats. Max this out for any stat that you use often.

4 - Think of those skills you use, and get items that give you +5 or even +10 to those skills. Being able to pull out an extra +10 on a movement, knowledge, disarming, unlocking, crafting, performing, profesion, or other similar skill can be VERY useful for a low low price.

5 - Prepare for the unpreparable nature of epic levels. An unused necklace of fireballs can make for a powerful one use chunk and run item for any character. A Wand of CLW (or five) is fine for recharging inbetween combats, but a Wand of CSW might be worth while for use in conflict. Spellcasters should have scrolls for ANYTHING they might ever want to cast. So should Rogues. Waterbreathing? Flight? You should be ready for anything. Wizards should work on having about every spell ever written in their spellbook.

6 - Can any caster ever have enough Pearls of Power? Ten levels into Epic and you will still be crafting those things for extra LV 9 spells.

7 - This is also well past time to think about a Stronghold, your own ship, your floating castle/deathstar, etc.
rob_douglas
08-09-07, 11:46 AM Excellent list. The only thing I can add is:
"Hear! Hear!"

However, this is based on the rules as they are, not necessarily as one might wish them to be. Sometimes I think about Epic tales and tales of gods, and they often have an item, or 2, that is amazing, but they don't tend to carry around trainloads of optional equipment. Sometimes I wish there were a pearl in Epic levels worth selling all your world possessions for. I just don't see Conan decking out in rings, armor, multiple weapons, and special items for specific uses. There is something nice about the simplicity of it.

I often think of artifacts for filling that role, more than epic items - items that can grant the necessary bonuses and still maintain their own identity as something more than just another piece of equipment. Still trying to find a balance between Epic needs, and my view of how things should be....

ROB
Witch
08-09-07, 12:02 PM Rob - UK follows your idea of artifacts. I believe he uses a general guideline of 4 artifacts per epic/divine level individual, which grant substantial bonuses, and that there's no other magic items used.
Mist of Shadows
08-09-07, 12:58 PM Take a look at most of the legends of past warriors.. most of them died... I'll keep my hoard of items... Though really it's not that hard to make gold in epic or even before. Start a business and get a +30 item to that skill and have fun raking in the cash.

Though as Rob said there is a certain amount of annoyance at the game mechanic that requires a large hoard of items rather than just a few. I try to solve my issues with the system with a flimsy belief that there is only so much magic you can pump into an item before you need other techniques. That doesn't help that much with the gold pricing but it helps some. It's nuts that you are carrying around items that are worth more than large countries for just a +1 or +2 more. It makes more sense to have a lot of normal magical items scattered with every silly type of bonus you can. It's annoying that the system awards being munchkin like. I mean your non devout wizard at some point finds a priest and sticks a sacrid bonus on things because that's 5 more points he can get that cost a fraction of what +1 (into epic) gives. With the MIC it's even easyier to go over board. Buy a few belts of battle, best item ever. Or just stack a few copies of it.

You can get things that really should be epic but aren't and don't cost that much to make.

To sum up yes they failed with the epic gold cost.
archerpwr
08-11-07, 06:03 PM Epic pricing bothers me too. For equipping my 27 I will be using the MIC rules quite a bit. Here is the number of items merged for each slot:

Torso: 3
Throat: 5
Shoulders: 3
Ring 1: 10
Ring 2: keeping open
Head: 14
Hands: 3
Belt: belt of battle
Armbands: armbands of might

That and most of the items that naturally come slotless.

Stupid ×10 epic modifier...
Oakspar77777
08-12-07, 10:02 AM Okay, a basic +6 Shield/Armor is 360,000 gp. True, you will seldom see one, since it makes more sense to go to +5 then add on +5 worth of other enhancements before taking the AC up just one, but I will stick with that, since it is likely the first epic level item you are likely to see/afford in your campaign (just like the +1 was the first you saw back in level 2-3).

This is only more true with epic items where the GP swing is much greater, so that items come out in almost predictable order.

Of course, using the "Epic Treasure Value per Encounter" chart in the EHB, such an item would pop up first arround level 36. That is ALOT of epic levels without epic gear!

Of course, the simple answer to this is something every DM already has been doing in your campaign since very early on: moving treasure.

In low levels, does your average skeleton have much treasure one it? No. Instead, the DM figures up how much treasure you have earned and then he plants it all the the BBEG's storeroom. That way the party gets a huge treasure that makes them feel good, and at the same time, they have earned every penny of it in encounter after encounter with no treasure.

So, at epic level 21, you should be getting arround 87,000 per encounter. Since it is a good DM rule of thumb to never put an item in a hoard that is worth more than 25% of the treasure's total value (20% if you have five players, 33% if you have 3 players, etc), then you would need to "store up" 13 encounters worth of treasure to get a hoard with that +6 shield in it. Since 13 encounters is an entire level, on average, you likely are not going to see that shield at level 21.

That is perfectly okay! As I mentioned before, you likely have other things to blow your money on. At arround 25 grand you can buy a wish, so your 1/4 cut from about 6 encounters is likely going just to slam one stat up +5. If you have two stats you care about alot, then you could blow that whole level's treasure (wisely) on two stat slams. Considering that CN is a powerful boost at level 20+ that all characters need and that each class has at least one other stat it cares about, you shouldn't be playing Scrooge McDuck in your money bin yet.

Now, since treasure accrues slower in epic levels than in regular (about a 10% increase per encounter per level rather than 30%), you might not be ready for that +6 item even by level 25 (though level 5-6 is likely when your party started +1-ing all over the place). By level 30, however, you are scoring arround 206,000 per encounter, meaning that +6 is really less than two encounter's worth of treasure. That means that it takes a 7-8 encounter build up to a hoard with something like that in it.

Also, by that time your party may have crafted one or two such items just selling off those worthless +5 Flaming Longswords you keep collecting. Note that this is also intended. Since your gear is likely very personal to you by this point and tightly tied to your character concept, the likelyhood of the item in a hoard being an improved version of your +5 Flaming, Frost, Shocking, Causetic, Composite Longbow (ST +6) of Range is VERY unlikely. Rather you are going to improve you "Bow of Elements" through further enhancement.

So, when it comes to just selling loot to pay the enchanter, it makes sense that epic items would be super rare well into epic levels. After all, there is something non-epic about a +6 shield that the party just sells off because the fighter likes the +5 worth of other enhancements on his +5 shield more than the 1 extra AC. (that said, he would likely still keep the +6 and put the other enhancements on it, since that would be cheaper than putting the +6 on the one that he has).

This also means that epic loot grows out of the party's existing gear, and that is a good thing. As it becomes more "epic" magically, it also becomes more "epic" with the reputation of the wielder. Thor's Hammer, Excaliber, Gunginir, Hrunting, and countless other weapons have stories in their own right due to the fame of their weilder.

Also, since each player is boosted with a dozen or so normal magical items, it is definately sensible for the DM to cover his foes with a wide assortment of magical gear. So, if your PCs are storming through a castle and get to an past a CR 19 guardian hydra to get to the inner keep and there are a pair of level 18 Orc Barbarians guarding the door to the throne room, then those two should be decked out in arround 87,000gp worth of gear each (to make up for the previous encounter with the hydra, these guys would have double treasure). So, magic armor, weapons, rings, amulets, belts, gloves, cloakes, etc. It makes them more challenging, it makes the encounter more memorable, gives the party plenty of stuff to identify, and in general makes the player's number of magic items more believeable.

Also, epic BBEG's tend to be MUCH better about getting away, and as such are less likely to stockpile huge hoards of treasure (unless they are dragons). Rather, they will keep their wealth on them at all times (bag of holding, etc), or they will store it elsewhere in an undisclosed location. So, spreading the treasure out, rather than earlier levels where it is greatly clumped for effect is also a great way for DMs to handle treasure.

A final note for characters who do not like to carry arround a bizare bazaar or magical items arround them in higher levels: look for ways to permanatly improve yourself instead. It is usually more exspensive than just using items, but if you work with your DM you shouldn't have any trouble finding a host of ways to actually use your gold to enhance your character as a person. Magical ceremonies, expert training, wishes, and the like could all be used to gain abilities or resistances, learn extra feats, improve stats, or anything else your DM finds reasonable. Usually these can be priced as (or just above) the cost for "slotless" items, since they have the benefits of an item, don't take a slot, and often can't be stolen, dispelled, or disjuncted.

I know I often have Barbarians who wish to finish up feat chains or Fighters who want to be multi-styled who will pay for expert training to learn extra feats. We work out an appropriate price (say 2200 for Wpn Focus: Longsword), and the character makes a trek out to Elven lands, is trained by a master, and learns the feat. Makes for great roleplaying opportunities, and is yet another way for your epic character to improve and feel more epic rather than being epically tied to your epic equipment.
BillTheManiac
08-12-07, 10:41 AM Magic Item Compendium says +2 weapons only appear in CR 11 or higher treasures. That's why I don't actually roll level-appropriate treasures. I add up the treasure value for an adventure and make it into a big horde.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gunz 08-07-07, 03:30 PM	Is there a reason behind the prices of epic items? I find it kind of strange that my Gloves of Dexterity +6 cost 36,000GP, and then suddenly for a +1 extra bonus I need to pay 490,000GP :eek: Or that my +5 Vorpal Longsword costs around 200,000GP, and if I want a +6 Vorpal Longsword I suddenly need to pay over 2.4 million GP (epic +11 item) ? Or that a Belt of Magnificence +6 is a given for any 20th level character, but I can't even find on what level your "average wealth" allows you to buy a belt of magnificence +8, which is a measily +1 modifier extra (MIC goes to 30 with 4.3 Mil to spend... BoM +8 is 5.44 Mil). Do I miss something? Are my calculations off? Is the only table I found on epic wealth (the one in MIC) completely off? This has probably been brought up before, I have searched the forums for over an hour, but with the sucky search here and google not yet having indexed everything yet (stupid new site name) it was quite useless.
Holy_Beholder 08-07-07, 04:55 PM	They multiplied the price of everything by 10, probably to showcase how special stuff is above 20th level.
rob_douglas 08-07-07, 04:58 PM	This is the correct pricing. Epic items have a built-in "Hold on" factor that makes you take time before acquiring them. You can't make most of them until you are 24th level anyway, as the crafting feats needed come in to play then. Epic wealth scales very fast. This helps slow down the amount by which you increase your abilities corresponding to wealth. In some ways they were not as successful as they thought they would be. ROB
Oakspar77777 08-07-07, 05:34 PM	The reason behind the pricing is to stop the normal progression of incrimentally inproving a dozen different items step by step. Epic items are meant to be just that, EPIC. Increasing the cost by X10 means that you will likely stop improving that Belt of ST, and rather spend the money for other items that round out the character and broaden them rather than continue to hone the usually narrow edge of a lower level character. That way, when characters do get that +8 Longsword of all Five Elements, it truely is something spectacular, and not just the normal slow leveling of items. I usually find that, depending on the character, one epic item per 10 levels is about right.
Witch 08-07-07, 06:29 PM	It completely depends, actually. At low epic, characters ought to be encouraged to mostly use non-epic items. At later epic, epic items will become cheap enough to use again.
DungeonMogrii 08-07-07, 07:53 PM	Has anyone here ever tried to price them as just improved version of the non-epic items? How much would a game be affected if you just droped that x10 in the prices?
Frobojoe 08-07-07, 09:09 PM	Has anyone here ever tried to price them as just improved version of the non-epic items? How much would a game be affected if you just droped that x10 in the prices? Well, you'd have to drastically slow down the wealth-by-level progression, but if you did that, I think things would go a lot smoother.
Tequila_Sunrise 08-08-07, 02:24 AM	A lot of people find epic pricing unwieldy, to say the least. The best solution that I've seen so far is to incrementally work up to the X10 multiplier. For example, a +6 sword costs X2 normal, a +7 costs X3 normal, etc...
bluemage55 08-08-07, 08:23 AM	The purpose of the epic modifier is to prevent access to non-epic characters. For example, with regular pricing, it would be easily possible for a 20th-level character to purchase +8 enhancement bonus items for 64,000 gp. The epic pricing creates a "reset" so that characters have as much access to epic equipment as characters 20 levels lower do for magical equipment. This is punctuated by the fact that the epic crafting feats are set exactly 20 levels after the original feats. Thus, a 25th-level fighter has a large number of regular magic items, but only a small number of epic magic items, just like a 5th-level character has a large number of mundane equipment, but only a few magical items.
Oakspar77777 08-08-07, 11:37 AM	I meantioned part of this in another thread a second ago, but it bears repeating. Early epic characters have other things to do with their money. 1 - Finishing up other item chains. Yes, your fighter will have maxed out his sword by level 20, but what about his bow? Or his dagger? The second set of armor that he sleeps in? 2 - Broadening equipment. There are only so many slots on a body, so maybe it is time for the Monk to stop trading off WS bonus for NAC or CN. Put that CN bonus on the +6 Belt of ST. Add WS to that Amulet of NAC. Put DX on a Vest, so that you can max out Bracers of armor. Add Greater Resistance (a flat cost not a +X bonus) to all five element to your armor. Etc, etc, etc. 3 - Improve your stats. For the low low cost of five scrolls of Wish, your party's arcane caster can add 5 to one of your stats. Max this out for any stat that you use often. 4 - Think of those skills you use, and get items that give you +5 or even +10 to those skills. Being able to pull out an extra +10 on a movement, knowledge, disarming, unlocking, crafting, performing, profesion, or other similar skill can be VERY useful for a low low price. 5 - Prepare for the unpreparable nature of epic levels. An unused necklace of fireballs can make for a powerful one use chunk and run item for any character. A Wand of CLW (or five) is fine for recharging inbetween combats, but a Wand of CSW might be worth while for use in conflict. Spellcasters should have scrolls for ANYTHING they might ever want to cast. So should Rogues. Waterbreathing? Flight? You should be ready for anything. Wizards should work on having about every spell ever written in their spellbook. 6 - Can any caster ever have enough Pearls of Power? Ten levels into Epic and you will still be crafting those things for extra LV 9 spells. 7 - This is also well past time to think about a Stronghold, your own ship, your floating castle/deathstar, etc.
rob_douglas 08-09-07, 11:46 AM	Excellent list. The only thing I can add is: "Hear! Hear!" However, this is based on the rules as they are, not necessarily as one might wish them to be. Sometimes I think about Epic tales and tales of gods, and they often have an item, or 2, that is amazing, but they don't tend to carry around trainloads of optional equipment. Sometimes I wish there were a pearl in Epic levels worth selling all your world possessions for. I just don't see Conan decking out in rings, armor, multiple weapons, and special items for specific uses. There is something nice about the simplicity of it. I often think of artifacts for filling that role, more than epic items - items that can grant the necessary bonuses and still maintain their own identity as something more than just another piece of equipment. Still trying to find a balance between Epic needs, and my view of how things should be.... ROB
Witch 08-09-07, 12:02 PM	Rob - UK follows your idea of artifacts. I believe he uses a general guideline of 4 artifacts per epic/divine level individual, which grant substantial bonuses, and that there's no other magic items used.
Mist of Shadows 08-09-07, 12:58 PM	Take a look at most of the legends of past warriors.. most of them died... I'll keep my hoard of items... Though really it's not that hard to make gold in epic or even before. Start a business and get a +30 item to that skill and have fun raking in the cash. Though as Rob said there is a certain amount of annoyance at the game mechanic that requires a large hoard of items rather than just a few. I try to solve my issues with the system with a flimsy belief that there is only so much magic you can pump into an item before you need other techniques. That doesn't help that much with the gold pricing but it helps some. It's nuts that you are carrying around items that are worth more than large countries for just a +1 or +2 more. It makes more sense to have a lot of normal magical items scattered with every silly type of bonus you can. It's annoying that the system awards being munchkin like. I mean your non devout wizard at some point finds a priest and sticks a sacrid bonus on things because that's 5 more points he can get that cost a fraction of what +1 (into epic) gives. With the MIC it's even easyier to go over board. Buy a few belts of battle, best item ever. Or just stack a few copies of it. You can get things that really should be epic but aren't and don't cost that much to make. To sum up yes they failed with the epic gold cost.
archerpwr 08-11-07, 06:03 PM	Epic pricing bothers me too. For equipping my 27 I will be using the MIC rules quite a bit. Here is the number of items merged for each slot: Torso: 3 Throat: 5 Shoulders: 3 Ring 1: 10 Ring 2: keeping open Head: 14 Hands: 3 Belt: belt of battle Armbands: armbands of might That and most of the items that naturally come slotless. Stupid ×10 epic modifier...
Oakspar77777 08-12-07, 10:02 AM	Okay, a basic +6 Shield/Armor is 360,000 gp. True, you will seldom see one, since it makes more sense to go to +5 then add on +5 worth of other enhancements before taking the AC up just one, but I will stick with that, since it is likely the first epic level item you are likely to see/afford in your campaign (just like the +1 was the first you saw back in level 2-3). This is only more true with epic items where the GP swing is much greater, so that items come out in almost predictable order. Of course, using the "Epic Treasure Value per Encounter" chart in the EHB, such an item would pop up first arround level 36. That is ALOT of epic levels without epic gear! Of course, the simple answer to this is something every DM already has been doing in your campaign since very early on: moving treasure. In low levels, does your average skeleton have much treasure one it? No. Instead, the DM figures up how much treasure you have earned and then he plants it all the the BBEG's storeroom. That way the party gets a huge treasure that makes them feel good, and at the same time, they have earned every penny of it in encounter after encounter with no treasure. So, at epic level 21, you should be getting arround 87,000 per encounter. Since it is a good DM rule of thumb to never put an item in a hoard that is worth more than 25% of the treasure's total value (20% if you have five players, 33% if you have 3 players, etc), then you would need to "store up" 13 encounters worth of treasure to get a hoard with that +6 shield in it. Since 13 encounters is an entire level, on average, you likely are not going to see that shield at level 21. That is perfectly okay! As I mentioned before, you likely have other things to blow your money on. At arround 25 grand you can buy a wish, so your 1/4 cut from about 6 encounters is likely going just to slam one stat up +5. If you have two stats you care about alot, then you could blow that whole level's treasure (wisely) on two stat slams. Considering that CN is a powerful boost at level 20+ that all characters need and that each class has at least one other stat it cares about, you shouldn't be playing Scrooge McDuck in your money bin yet. Now, since treasure accrues slower in epic levels than in regular (about a 10% increase per encounter per level rather than 30%), you might not be ready for that +6 item even by level 25 (though level 5-6 is likely when your party started +1-ing all over the place). By level 30, however, you are scoring arround 206,000 per encounter, meaning that +6 is really less than two encounter's worth of treasure. That means that it takes a 7-8 encounter build up to a hoard with something like that in it. Also, by that time your party may have crafted one or two such items just selling off those worthless +5 Flaming Longswords you keep collecting. Note that this is also intended. Since your gear is likely very personal to you by this point and tightly tied to your character concept, the likelyhood of the item in a hoard being an improved version of your +5 Flaming, Frost, Shocking, Causetic, Composite Longbow (ST +6) of Range is VERY unlikely. Rather you are going to improve you "Bow of Elements" through further enhancement. So, when it comes to just selling loot to pay the enchanter, it makes sense that epic items would be super rare well into epic levels. After all, there is something non-epic about a +6 shield that the party just sells off because the fighter likes the +5 worth of other enhancements on his +5 shield more than the 1 extra AC. (that said, he would likely still keep the +6 and put the other enhancements on it, since that would be cheaper than putting the +6 on the one that he has). This also means that epic loot grows out of the party's existing gear, and that is a good thing. As it becomes more "epic" magically, it also becomes more "epic" with the reputation of the wielder. Thor's Hammer, Excaliber, Gunginir, Hrunting, and countless other weapons have stories in their own right due to the fame of their weilder. Also, since each player is boosted with a dozen or so normal magical items, it is definately sensible for the DM to cover his foes with a wide assortment of magical gear. So, if your PCs are storming through a castle and get to an past a CR 19 guardian hydra to get to the inner keep and there are a pair of level 18 Orc Barbarians guarding the door to the throne room, then those two should be decked out in arround 87,000gp worth of gear each (to make up for the previous encounter with the hydra, these guys would have double treasure). So, magic armor, weapons, rings, amulets, belts, gloves, cloakes, etc. It makes them more challenging, it makes the encounter more memorable, gives the party plenty of stuff to identify, and in general makes the player's number of magic items more believeable. Also, epic BBEG's tend to be MUCH better about getting away, and as such are less likely to stockpile huge hoards of treasure (unless they are dragons). Rather, they will keep their wealth on them at all times (bag of holding, etc), or they will store it elsewhere in an undisclosed location. So, spreading the treasure out, rather than earlier levels where it is greatly clumped for effect is also a great way for DMs to handle treasure. A final note for characters who do not like to carry arround a bizare bazaar or magical items arround them in higher levels: look for ways to permanatly improve yourself instead. It is usually more exspensive than just using items, but if you work with your DM you shouldn't have any trouble finding a host of ways to actually use your gold to enhance your character as a person. Magical ceremonies, expert training, wishes, and the like could all be used to gain abilities or resistances, learn extra feats, improve stats, or anything else your DM finds reasonable. Usually these can be priced as (or just above) the cost for "slotless" items, since they have the benefits of an item, don't take a slot, and often can't be stolen, dispelled, or disjuncted. I know I often have Barbarians who wish to finish up feat chains or Fighters who want to be multi-styled who will pay for expert training to learn extra feats. We work out an appropriate price (say 2200 for Wpn Focus: Longsword), and the character makes a trek out to Elven lands, is trained by a master, and learns the feat. Makes for great roleplaying opportunities, and is yet another way for your epic character to improve and feel more epic rather than being epically tied to your epic equipment.
BillTheManiac 08-12-07, 10:41 AM	Magic Item Compendium says +2 weapons only appear in CR 11 or higher treasures. That's why I don't actually roll level-appropriate treasures. I add up the treasure value for an adventure and make it into a big horde.