Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkmadden 08-22-07, 10:51 AM	OK... i've been DMing my group for 3 years now and we hit epic level!!! The problem i've ran into is running a group that can do almost anything... Any suggestions?
Tequila_Sunrise 08-22-07, 11:27 AM	Well if the PCs can do anything, so should their enemies. Common epic adventures include: planar adventures, political/powerplay adventures and time-traveling adventures (although I detest time travel myself). As NPCs become more and more pathetic as the game advances, you might consider more monstrous BBEGs: outsiders (demon and devil lords), dragons (epic dragons or advanced great wyrms) and powerful undead (liches, vampires, custom creations). These monsters work great because they have the advantage of time on their side, as they are all immortal unlike the PCs (probably?). The latest and final issue of Paizo's dragon magazine included the Time Dragon, which span from CR 26 to 90 and have the ability to time travel naturally. Do you have the Epic Level Handbook? It gives good advice on running an epic game. The rest of the book is questionable at best, but it's a start.
rob_douglas 08-22-07, 11:32 AM	Have you read the ELH section on Running an Epic Game? At 20th level, it may seem like they can do anything, but they really can't. Everything has limitations, if you apply them. Astral Projection can't get into AMF or Dimension Locked or Forbiddance areas. Wishes are limited, and can be countered, and even pre-countered by another Wish. Commune, and Contact Other Plane are limited - but only by the limits the DM puts in place. Some good ideas are to look at published "very high level" adventures: Bastion of Broken Souls, Dungeon magazine issues 93, 140, 123, 150, 135, 134, 149. These include adventures for 18th to 30th level, and include battles against epic level NPCs, demon lords, and demigods - and an abomination. If you really are at a loss, you could post more details about your characters and world, and we could come up with some ideas. Just a general idea for each PC - maybe primary attack bonus, AC, and saves, class levels, and prime stat and main tactic. Some of the creatures in the ELH are way too powerful for your PCs to take on. Another key thing to deal with is that unrestricted optimization can lead to unbalanced PCs. This is fine, as long as you know that when you are setting up the adventures. You might want to look a few CR higher for things to take on. It is best to also work to mitigate the opponent's weaknesses. A lot of epic creatures could use a scroll (UMD) and therefore could have contingencies and other spells active. If the party is too free with Mord's Disjunction, make them pay for that by destroying all the treasure - and even a minor artifact if need be. So in summary, let us know what you mean and we can help. It is a tough thing to do - it takes me weeks to prepare for a session now, and we are starting a 2nd campaign to play when I am not quite ready for the epic session. ROB
rob_douglas 09-12-07, 11:43 AM	HI I was just asked in a PM about Running an Epic game, and I thought I would post much of my reply, which may generate some of its own discussion. I should organize it better one day. I didn't even get into controlling equipment....darn... Anyway.... Hi, Sorry to bother you, but Witch mentioned you were worth talking to about Epic stuff. Thanks, and thanks to Witch for the complement. I have been planning my epic campaign for years, since my players hit 15th level or so, but we are only to 23rd now, and I too am running into difficulty. The hardest part for me is preparing and properly running the epic threats that the party needs to deal with, in the timeframe of how often we play. It takes a lot of work. First off, I recommend being very strict with power-gaming aspects. You see many combinations and ideas posted on the boards that take multiple PrCs and really tweak up their abilities. The designers couldn't forsee this, so to make a challenging encounter, you have to do just as much tweaking. Instead you should tone the PCs down - make it harder for them to get special abilities and items. But as for running the game, I think to do a goo epic campaign, you need an idea - one that requires epic characters, and takes place in an epic setting. IMC, the goal is really to defeat a demigod. The party can't possibly do that now, so they need to gather a collection of artifacts to do so. Even learning about which artifacts, and where they are is a challenge. Ultimately the artifacts are to be held and used against them before they gain control of them. To provide challenges to the PCs, you need to double up on encounters, and use a bunch of defensive tricks and traps that are out there, as well as "cheat" a little. You can give the NPCs treasure that helps them that the PCs can't use - items with charges, items with alignment restrictions, epic spells, inherent bonuses. None of those can be taken when they are defeated, and they enhance the threat. Also, make lots of use of Symbols and Greater Glyphs. If every PC has to make a save every round, a 1 will come up eventually. Securing areas against Epic PC entrance is really difficult, and shouldn't be overdone - in general Epic encounters are not site-based but more encounter based. But if you need a Sanctum for your NPCs, remember Unhallow/hallow, Forbiddence, and Dimensional Lock. And Greater Anticipate Teleport. Assume the enemies are using Communes and Divinations to learn when the PCs are coming, so they get to have more active spells, so they don't spend too much time buffing. And never let them take on the Big bad evil guy when he is all alone. A Bard's song lasts even after the bard is dead, so having a bard minion is always a help. Same with many other supporting casters. And a trap that casts Greater Dispel on each character saves the BBEG a lot of actions. And for the ultimate in controlling access - demiplanes. You can make a demiplane with no access to extra-dimensional objects as well - so the party loses access to bags of holding, quivers of ehlonna, and portable holes - which should account for lots of their resources. Everyone of your major NPCs should have a contingency, or multiple ones (Craft Contingent Spell). You could plan out what it is, but it might be easier for you if you "assume" them after the fact. You have to trust in your own fairness. You can't possibly predict all the protections that a paranoid epic would put up, so when the PCs try something, if you don't think it should work, then assume a contingency - and burn one. I think that it is fair then to let it work the second time, the contingency burned. You could use the luck rules from ELH page 111, and/or the 3-deaths and your out rules. This simulates the NPC being more knowledgeable than you are. Don't use this for every encounter, but for the big ones. Read the section in the ELH on running an epic game, and read it again. ;) Seriously, it has some amazing advice. A big way to deal with the party coming in prepared is to mislead them. Let's say they learn about a dragon - if the dragon uses magic to convince the populace he is a White, but is really a Red - then the party could have the wrong protections up. If the party goes in prepared for an assault, perhaps the BBEG up and leaves, letting some of their spells wear off. Does he need to stick around for the whole fight? Can he make Simulacra, or Illusions - you need epic ones to battle continuous True Seeing, but if the party doesn't use that, then they must interact to gain a save, so have the illusion threaten but miss, and make it inaccessible (Wall of Force?) so they waste a couple of spells on it. ROB
Psionx 09-12-07, 12:00 PM	How do you take 3 years? I've always thought that games would be done quickly? Do you keep characters or something?
rob_douglas 09-12-07, 01:58 PM	I do not level as fast as the 3E rules. I take a lot longer. I think at epic level this is even more important - the players have to spend more time learning their characters abilities. I have role-playing encounters and long term battle planning that may net no real XP bonus, but advances the story. The whole campaign is based on a story taking them through 30th level, so they don't advance any faster than I want them to to meet all the challenges in between - regardless of encounters and XP. That and we play only every 2 weeks, and only for 6-7 hours. :( Yes, the core 3E system will allow you to go from 1-20 in a year, and another 20 levels in another year. I think that is too fast at epic for a DM to keep up on the abilities of the challenges he sets out, and the players to keep control of their own powers. YMMV. Taking a long time also allows me to weave more intricate plots, IMHO. ROB