Seedbinding: Epic Magic for Binders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Seedbinding: Epic Magic for Binders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nephelim
07-13-07, 02:29 PM Well, I had something of a brain-drizzle last night regarding Epic Binders and the notion of Binding Epic spell-seeds as vestiges... this is the result:

Seedbinding

How about a chain of four Epic feats, the Binding Spell Seeds chain. Each defines a progressively more powerful binding.

Seedbinding (General)
Prerequisite: I haven't yet worked out the prerequisites, but I'm thinking of basing the progression off "either Diplomacy or Intimidate" at 25, 30, 35, and 40 ranks, as well as having the ability to bind 8th-level Vestiges.
Effect: When you take this feat, you become able to create a Seedbinding - binding your soul with a concept itself, allowing you to force your will upon reality.

The Feat chain progresses as follows:

Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes one Epic Spell Seed)
Binary Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes two Epic Spell Seeds)
Trinary Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes one Three Spell Seeds)
Universal Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes an unlimited number of Epic Spell Seeds)

Seedbinding - What it is:

When you take the feat in the above chain, you define what seed(s) it allows you to bind. That binding is static once you've taken the feat. This makes Binders somewhat less flexible in terms of feat-cost, in that an Arcane or Divine Spellcaster only has to expend a single feat to open up all of Epic spell-casting to them. However, Seedbinds are arguably more powerful than normal Epic magic becasue of the lack of XP and Gold cost, and its repeatability.

Mechanics
When you define a Seedbinding, you then design up to 5 epic spells, using the normal rules for creating epic spells, including factors and mitigating factors and whatnot.

The Bind DC of the Seedbinding is the calculated "spellcraft" DC of the highest-level epic spell within that binding, plus 10, plus 1 per each additional power past the second. The Binding DC does not determine if the Binder receives the power or not, but if the Binder falls under the Influence of the Seed. The roll is a D20 + Effective Binder Level, so it is likely that either the Binder will fall under the influence of the Seed, or they will tone-down the Spells included in the seed.

The restrictions on the spells\powers within the Seedbind are as follows:

The highest-DC spell is usable once per 5 rounds after the completion of its previous use.
Each remaining spell can have a Spellcraft DC no higher than 5 less than the next highest effect
The spells can only use the seeds defined when you chose the Feat
Because Soulbinds\Seedbinds grant Supernatural powers, their effects never have material, somatic, or verbal components. You can, however, take "Requires ______ component" as a -1 mitigating factor (per 1000gp cost in the case of a Material Component).
Seedbind powers ca not have a "casting time" greater than 10 minutes, becasue the Binding only lasts for 1 day.

Unlike Soulbinds, Seedbinds require constant effort to maintain. Any time that a Binder wishes to use a effect granted by a seed, they must roll either Intimidate or Diplomacy with a DC equal to the bind DC of the Seed. Effects which modify the Binder's Dimplomacy score apply to this roll, which is why most binders do thier Seedbinds after thier Soulbinds, if the seed they bind to has an onerous DC.

This roll is a swift action, and if it fails, the effect simply does not apply for that instance. In the case of constant effects, this roll can be made on completion of the Binding, and if failed, once per round thereafter until successful.

Otherwise, Seedbindings follow all the rules regarding powers granted by Soulbinding.

A Seed's Influence

Seedbinding is binding one's soul to the very embodiment of a concept, beyond not just time, space, and reality, but beyond thought and word, defying boundary and description. No Seedbinding has a name,a face, or a description. So you are not binding "Ignis, lord of the inferno", you are binding "Fire" or even "being consumed as fuel." More on the effects of this level of abstraction, below.

The Seedbind's influence and Special Conditions are defined when the feat is taken. Normally, the influence of binding a Seed is that the seed's "effect" is in greater evidence in an area around the Binder, though not in any way that has any mechanical or numerical effect.

Binding Destruction, for example, does not damage anything nearby, but things that are previously flammable may burn more brightly (though only subtly so), or things that break don't just split\crack\shatter, they shatter into dust or are reduced to undefinable scrap... that sort of thing. An Influence of this type has area of effect is equal to the SeedBind's Binding DC /10 feet, round up.

If the Binding includes seeds that can be expressed in personality quirks then the Binder's attitude shifts to emphasize those perspectives, though never in a way that might violate their alignment. The intensity of this drive and its effect on the Binder is correlated with the Bind DC of the Seedbind.

The Binding Ritual

Unlike a normal Soulbind, Seedbinding does not involve a test of wills in any sort of observable sense, it instead involves a complete reconstruction of the fabric of the Binder's soul, in order to accommodate raw and unfettered access to a small aspect of a universal conceptual framework.

To an outside viewer, the Binder is simply standing before a sign that seethes with ... something that is at once familiar, intimate, and known and at the same time utterly alien, alive, indifferent, and so disturbing as to be without comparison. If the outside viewer remember what they saw at all, they remember sounds, smells, sights, and even tactile sense that remind them or are associated in their minds with the various seeds that the Seedbind relates to. This can make the perception of Binary and Trinary Seedbinds very traumatic events to non-binders.

Anything used to record a Seedbinding in any way will reveal nothing after the fact - the Figment and its effects can not be recorded by any means, and remote observation - even Divine Salient Powers - reveal nothing of the figment. Further, any sentient creature that witnesses a Seedbinding that has fewer HD or levels than the Binder's (1/2 EBL+CHA bonus) are effected as indicated below. These effects apply even to mindless creatures, or beings who are otherwise immune to fear or mind-effecting effects, including constructs and Undead. Entities with more HD\Levels than this threshold are not adversely effected, but still find the display to be exceptionally uncomfortable.

1-5 fewer: Shaken until the binding is completed, or they remove themselves from its perception. They will remember he basics of what they saw, but will have great difficulty describing it.
6-10 fewer: Panicked until the binding is completed or they remove themselves from its perception, and will remember nothing of what they saw.
11+ fewer: effected as Insanity until the binding is completed or they are removed from its perception. They will remember nothing of what they saw or did, and will actively avoid being in a situation where they will witness another Seedbinding.
BillTheManiac
07-14-07, 06:58 PM So .... you bind an epic seed? What does it do?

If you made a system for costing supernatural effects and adding them to make an epic vestige, THAT would be interesting.
Nephelim
07-15-07, 09:26 AM So .... you bind an epic seed? What does it do?

If you made a system for costing supernatural effects and adding them to make an epic vestige, THAT would be interesting.

The Seedbinding lets you use up to 5 Epic spells - of your design when you choose the Feat - as supernatural abilities, at will with effectively no XP or gold cost.

Other than that? Not much.
Nephelim
08-15-07, 05:21 PM Wow... nothing?

I ro0l!!!1!
BillTheManiac
08-15-07, 06:17 PM It looks like with Ordinary you're going to create a set of fireball, cone of cold, line of lightning, wall of acid, ray of sound, because Energy is the most versatile seed, or 5 different fortifies. It lacks flavor. Each vestigy thing should have 5 abilities that don't all do the same thing. I suggest you specify you can't use the same seed more then once. So you can have 1 energy, 1 inflict, 1 fortify, 1 heal, and 1 destroy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephelim 07-13-07, 02:29 PM	Well, I had something of a brain-drizzle last night regarding Epic Binders and the notion of Binding Epic spell-seeds as vestiges... this is the result: Seedbinding How about a chain of four Epic feats, the Binding Spell Seeds chain. Each defines a progressively more powerful binding. Seedbinding (General) Prerequisite: I haven't yet worked out the prerequisites, but I'm thinking of basing the progression off "either Diplomacy or Intimidate" at 25, 30, 35, and 40 ranks, as well as having the ability to bind 8th-level Vestiges. Effect: When you take this feat, you become able to create a Seedbinding - binding your soul with a concept itself, allowing you to force your will upon reality. The Feat chain progresses as follows: Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes one Epic Spell Seed) Binary Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes two Epic Spell Seeds) Trinary Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes one Three Spell Seeds) Universal Seed Binding (create a Seedbind that utilizes an unlimited number of Epic Spell Seeds) Seedbinding - What it is: When you take the feat in the above chain, you define what seed(s) it allows you to bind. That binding is static once you've taken the feat. This makes Binders somewhat less flexible in terms of feat-cost, in that an Arcane or Divine Spellcaster only has to expend a single feat to open up all of Epic spell-casting to them. However, Seedbinds are arguably more powerful than normal Epic magic becasue of the lack of XP and Gold cost, and its repeatability. Mechanics When you define a Seedbinding, you then design up to 5 epic spells, using the normal rules for creating epic spells, including factors and mitigating factors and whatnot. The Bind DC of the Seedbinding is the calculated "spellcraft" DC of the highest-level epic spell within that binding, plus 10, plus 1 per each additional power past the second. The Binding DC does not determine if the Binder receives the power or not, but if the Binder falls under the Influence of the Seed. The roll is a D20 + Effective Binder Level, so it is likely that either the Binder will fall under the influence of the Seed, or they will tone-down the Spells included in the seed. The restrictions on the spells\powers within the Seedbind are as follows: The highest-DC spell is usable once per 5 rounds after the completion of its previous use. Each remaining spell can have a Spellcraft DC no higher than 5 less than the next highest effect The spells can only use the seeds defined when you chose the Feat Because Soulbinds\Seedbinds grant Supernatural powers, their effects never have material, somatic, or verbal components. You can, however, take "Requires ______ component" as a -1 mitigating factor (per 1000gp cost in the case of a Material Component). Seedbind powers ca not have a "casting time" greater than 10 minutes, becasue the Binding only lasts for 1 day. Unlike Soulbinds, Seedbinds require constant effort to maintain. Any time that a Binder wishes to use a effect granted by a seed, they must roll either Intimidate or Diplomacy with a DC equal to the bind DC of the Seed. Effects which modify the Binder's Dimplomacy score apply to this roll, which is why most binders do thier Seedbinds after thier Soulbinds, if the seed they bind to has an onerous DC. This roll is a swift action, and if it fails, the effect simply does not apply for that instance. In the case of constant effects, this roll can be made on completion of the Binding, and if failed, once per round thereafter until successful. Otherwise, Seedbindings follow all the rules regarding powers granted by Soulbinding. A Seed's Influence Seedbinding is binding one's soul to the very embodiment of a concept, beyond not just time, space, and reality, but beyond thought and word, defying boundary and description. No Seedbinding has a name,a face, or a description. So you are not binding "Ignis, lord of the inferno", you are binding "Fire" or even "being consumed as fuel." More on the effects of this level of abstraction, below. The Seedbind's influence and Special Conditions are defined when the feat is taken. Normally, the influence of binding a Seed is that the seed's "effect" is in greater evidence in an area around the Binder, though not in any way that has any mechanical or numerical effect. Binding Destruction, for example, does not damage anything nearby, but things that are previously flammable may burn more brightly (though only subtly so), or things that break don't just split\crack\shatter, they shatter into dust or are reduced to undefinable scrap... that sort of thing. An Influence of this type has area of effect is equal to the SeedBind's Binding DC /10 feet, round up. If the Binding includes seeds that can be expressed in personality quirks then the Binder's attitude shifts to emphasize those perspectives, though never in a way that might violate their alignment. The intensity of this drive and its effect on the Binder is correlated with the Bind DC of the Seedbind. The Binding Ritual Unlike a normal Soulbind, Seedbinding does not involve a test of wills in any sort of observable sense, it instead involves a complete reconstruction of the fabric of the Binder's soul, in order to accommodate raw and unfettered access to a small aspect of a universal conceptual framework. To an outside viewer, the Binder is simply standing before a sign that seethes with ... something that is at once familiar, intimate, and known and at the same time utterly alien, alive, indifferent, and so disturbing as to be without comparison. If the outside viewer remember what they saw at all, they remember sounds, smells, sights, and even tactile sense that remind them or are associated in their minds with the various seeds that the Seedbind relates to. This can make the perception of Binary and Trinary Seedbinds very traumatic events to non-binders. Anything used to record a Seedbinding in any way will reveal nothing after the fact - the Figment and its effects can not be recorded by any means, and remote observation - even Divine Salient Powers - reveal nothing of the figment. Further, any sentient creature that witnesses a Seedbinding that has fewer HD or levels than the Binder's (1/2 EBL+CHA bonus) are effected as indicated below. These effects apply even to mindless creatures, or beings who are otherwise immune to fear or mind-effecting effects, including constructs and Undead. Entities with more HD\Levels than this threshold are not adversely effected, but still find the display to be exceptionally uncomfortable. 1-5 fewer: Shaken until the binding is completed, or they remove themselves from its perception. They will remember he basics of what they saw, but will have great difficulty describing it. 6-10 fewer: Panicked until the binding is completed or they remove themselves from its perception, and will remember nothing of what they saw. 11+ fewer: effected as Insanity until the binding is completed or they are removed from its perception. They will remember nothing of what they saw or did, and will actively avoid being in a situation where they will witness another Seedbinding.
BillTheManiac 07-14-07, 06:58 PM	So .... you bind an epic seed? What does it do? If you made a system for costing supernatural effects and adding them to make an epic vestige, THAT would be interesting.
Nephelim 07-15-07, 09:26 AM	So .... you bind an epic seed? What does it do? If you made a system for costing supernatural effects and adding them to make an epic vestige, THAT would be interesting. The Seedbinding lets you use up to 5 Epic spells - of your design when you choose the Feat - as supernatural abilities, at will with effectively no XP or gold cost. Other than that? Not much.
Nephelim 08-15-07, 05:21 PM	Wow... nothing? I ro0l!!!1!
BillTheManiac 08-15-07, 06:17 PM	It looks like with Ordinary you're going to create a set of fireball, cone of cold, line of lightning, wall of acid, ray of sound, because Energy is the most versatile seed, or 5 different fortifies. It lacks flavor. Each vestigy thing should have 5 abilities that don't all do the same thing. I suggest you specify you can't use the same seed more then once. So you can have 1 energy, 1 inflict, 1 fortify, 1 heal, and 1 destroy.