Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Violet Typhoon 06-22-07, 05:51 PM	First of all, anyone who plays at Elon University, stay away! So, I'm pretty new to Epic material, but I'd like to use a little of it for the very end of my campaign. The final boss of my campaign is going to be a 22nd level Wizard with some Archmage mixed in, and I'd like to add some power through using a variant on the Worm that Walks template: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm The idea is that this character is "partially ascended" to a god-like state of existing solely as energy (sortof like Anubis in Stargate SG1). This makes her immortal and very difficult to kill, as well as giving her a modicum of divine power. As written, the WtW template is CR+3, but I was hoping to knock the modification down to closer to a +2 or even +1 if possible by cutting some of the abilities. I'd cut out all the SLAs first, since this new version has nothing to do with vermin. I'd also drop the Insight bonus to AC down to only +10 or +5, and drop the Spell Resistance because the base character already has plenty. I'd like to keep Engulf because it's so stylish, but it could be weakened somehow (perhaps requiring a grapple check or limiting its uses per day). Frightful Presence is also nice, and probably doesn't make much of a difference anyway. The question is: with these modifications (or others you all can suggest), would adding the template to a 22nd-level wizard be a reasonable final challenge for a party of six level 19-20s, plus associated animal companions, undead servants, etc.? Keep in mind it is the final boss of my campaign, and the party will have access to one or more helpful artifacts in the battle. Thank you all in advance!
Kesuk2k5 06-23-07, 07:17 AM	Getting rid of the spell-likes is probably a good idea, not only for theme but for cutting down dead weight (he's a spellcaster to begin with). Try to leave in as many defense-minded parts of the template as you can. But you might also want to go with a standard template: the lich. Put the lich's phylactery in secret chest and store it on the astral plane when some adventurers come knocking. Unless they use high-end divination to find where the phylactery is exactly, they'd never get to it in time to prevent the lich's return to life. Even if they did, there's no saying that it will be an uncontested trip through the astral plane.
Violet Typhoon 06-25-07, 10:14 AM	Thank you for your suggestion, Kesuk. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the matter? Basically, what I'm really wondering is how reasonable it is to pit a party of high-level but non-epic characters against a low-level epic character. Perhaps I should start a new thread to ask that question more specifically, but for the purposes of this situation, would my weakened Worm work out okay, or is there something special I should worry about? Any other suggestions of abilities to keep/subtract?
rob_douglas 06-25-07, 11:46 AM	I think I finally see - you want to make a template like Worm that Walks - but it is made of energy, not Worms.... OK, here is how I would change it: Type changes to Outsider also becomes incorporeal HD change to d8 AC - deflection bonus equal to CHA bonus Engulf - make it so that any spell cast on an engulfed character has no save Spells as in life Absorb item - it can absorb a certain number of magic items and use their powers - such as wands, staffs, etc. Maybe it can even do this as an attack to steal an item from the party and use it against them.... Constant Arcane Sight, True Seeing Spell Resistance equal HD+13 (does not stack with SR he may already have) Immunities: Not subject to critical hits, flanking, transmutation, mind-affecting effects, poison, paralysis, petrification, fear, death, ability drain or damage, energy drain or damage. Then there should be some spells that do extra damage - like Dispel Magic should actually hurt him - 10d6 or 20d6 for Greater (1d6 per level) and MDJ should be save or die. This is worth a CR of +2 I think. CR24 against a party of 19th I think that is just fine for a BBEG confrontation. they better learn what they are dealing with before they get to it. ROB
Violet Typhoon 06-25-07, 02:02 PM	Wow, great ideas, Rob! Thanks for your input. I particularly like the idea of giving her a special weakness to dispels, that’s pure gold. I’m glad that the match-up between party and BBEG seems reasonable. As to knowing about the fight beforehand, that won’t be a problem, as the party will come up against her once, be completely annihilated, and be given a second chance to defeat her later on. That way, they’ll get to see a little of her in action and surmise a better strategy for the second assault. The main Worm ability I’m wondering about is the Insight Bonus to AC. I’d like to keep some of it, because I like the concept of many individual parts all dodging independently. A +20 bonus is obviously extremely high, especially for non-epic characters to fight, so I definitely will bring it down. Would a +10 bonus be more reasonable (effectively putting her base AC at 20 instead of 10)? Under current plans, that would add up to a total AC somewhere in the low 40s, at least until some of her protective spells are taken down. Considering that my party lacks anyone with a full BAB progression (consisting of monks, rogues, warlocks, and the like), they won’t have a +20 BAB to fall back on. Would a +5 insight be more appropriate, or should I really make them sweat? How much of the original template’s +3 CR comes from the insight bonus, anyway?
rob_douglas 06-25-07, 03:40 PM	I think a good bit. +20 insight to AC is a pretty big bump. I switched to Deflection based on CHA because it is more "magical" and that is something that incorporeals often have. An insight bonus is usually reserved for Epic - because there are very few ways to duplicate it, so it stacks with most everything. Given that the creature will probably be low on AC, I don't think adding a +10 insight bonus will hurt. Don't forget incorporeals have a 50% miss chance protecting them all the time, barring ghost touch. ANd take 1/2 damage from area of effect spells that are not force effects. :) ROB
rob_douglas 06-26-07, 12:27 AM	Some additional thoughts on abilities: Absorption - it should be able to absorb spells targetting it and heal itself (4hp/spell level) or recharge lost spell slots with the energy. Call Living Spell - It should be able to create a Living Spell (MM3) by sacrificing a spell form its prepared spells. This takes a full round action, and costs 4 hp/level of the spell, but creates a Living Spell of the sacrificed spell at the creatures caster level. You also need a name for this new template, but I like it. I think it might be CR +4 now, and could go higher if you add in some ability modifiers. Remember it gets STR -, and maybe even CON - (have to check). INT and CHA could be +4 each. I think this makes for a nice potentially epic template. And even at CR27, the party could make it - if you gave them an artifact to use that would "even the playing field" so to speak.... ROB
Violet Typhoon 06-26-07, 11:38 AM	You're right about the potential for this idea as a totally new template on its own. Funny that I started out looking for a way to make the WtW weaker, and we ended up with this! Perhaps we should start a new thread that focuses on the creation of this template specifically, in order to attract more help. Thoughts? Also, any ideas for a name? "Ascended" or some variation thereof could work, but it reminds me of BoED "exalted"-type things. Any suggestions for the title of the new thread would be helpful, though I'll try to think of something while at work.
rob_douglas 06-26-07, 12:01 PM	This is not really an "ascended" type - since gods aren't so much beings of magic. I keep thinking Arcanum but I think that title might be taken. I agree that maybe we aren't getting the necessary views to help flesh it out. If you want to write up what we have so far, and post it as a new post with requests for comments, and a guess at the CR bump, I would have no problem with that. Just put in a link back to this thread saying it is where it came from. If I think of a name, I will be sure to share it. ROB