Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Old_Troll 02-19-08, 12:45 PM	What methods are there for refreshing spell slots of a wizard (or sorceror) more than once a day. It does not look like Wish would accomplish this, unless one created an Epic Spell Wish. My thought would be to simply create a Power Refresh Epic Spell. Opinions on the seed(s) necessary? My opinion is that the limit on spells/day (or rest period) is important as a relatively hard limit that will keep the Epic leveled spell slingers from having unlimited power. So any way to get around this limit should be expensive to the character and not constantly available. OK, enough of my opinion. (Already thought of the fast-time demi-plane method.)
Ascariat 02-19-08, 02:20 PM	Epic level spellcasters are already powerful enough I would not allow anything that allowed them to refresh their spells more than 1 time a day.
beej_silver 02-19-08, 05:57 PM	I confess I'm not very good with epic spells. But offhand, Conjure Seed to grab a well-rested version of yourself from the time stream, Transport seed to get him to the present, and Transform Seed to "assimilate" that self into your current form. The DC will be high, though; +60 from conjuring a unique (yourself) creature, and if the Time Duplicate spell is an indication, each round of time transportation gives +8DC. Not to mention the disturbances to the Space-Time Continuum from using my idea. :weep: Personally, if I was a DM and a player asked me if he could do this, I'd probably go, "Hahahahahaha... No." Probably.
Kigan 02-27-08, 04:10 AM	Are you completely and utterly nuts? Casting spells twice or more a day? Yeah, I can see how that is fair for the same level fighter. Maybe a god or an artifact could grant this once in a particularly bad situation, but to make a player able to do this on his own?? I'm sorry but the answer IMO should be no freaking way in hell.:nonono:
Tshern 02-27-08, 11:29 AM	Are you completely and utterly nuts? Casting spells twice or more a day? Yeah, I can see how that is fair for the same level fighter. Maybe a god or an artifact could grant this once in a particularly bad situation, but to make a player able to do this on his own?? I'm sorry but the answer IMO should be no freaking way in hell.:nonono: Althought, on a theoretical level, this sounds very feasible indeed when you hit high levels. Just make sure you pimp the living daylights out of your Spellcraft check and research this little buddy. Beej_silver is having a nice approach to this one, that definitely could work.
Old_Troll 02-27-08, 01:04 PM	Are you completely and utterly nuts? Casting spells twice or more a day? Yeah, I can see how that is fair for the same level fighter. My bubble isn't always dead on, but no, I'm not insane. As I alluded to, if this is allowed it will only be with a design that restricts abuse. Yes, yes, you think abuse is being able to do it in the first place. But the group is on the cusp of Epic (19th-21st) and the wizard is looking for a method to be able to do this in a crisis or for war (protracted battle). It SHOULD be expensive in terms of xp and/or money and even then should not be available for every confrontation. Unlike some in these forums, I always consider the balance in the game with introducing anything new. As for our lone melee fighter, he does just fine. We support him and he has enough healing to move himself along, happily eviscerating enemies for many rounds. Perhaps I should lob this question into the EPIC pond...
Kigan 02-28-08, 07:25 AM	I'm sorry if I sounded insulting, I meant it more in an humoristic way. However my opinion does stand. How about giving an artifact with a limited amount of charges that would acomplish just that? Recharging the artifact would be very hard (xp cost) and require the approval of a deity who would only agree in the most dire terms? As for beej_silver's suggestion: I confess I'm not very good with epic spells. But offhand, Conjure Seed to grab a well-rested version of yourself from the time stream, Transport seed to get him to the present, and Transform Seed to "assimilate" that self into your current form. The DC will be high, though; +60 from conjuring a unique (yourself) creature, and if the Time Duplicate spell is an indication, each round of time transportation gives +8DC. Not to mention the disturbances to the Space-Time Continuum from using my idea. :weep: My answer would be: sure, but since your younger self disappears from the past, there is no one to cast the spell in the first time, so it does not work. But since it does not work, you are here to cast the spell so it does work, but since it does work, your younger self disappears from the past, so there is no one to cast the spell in the first time, so it does not work. Congratulations, you created a paradox and a rift in space-time, you just destroyed this entire plane of existence.
Selgard 02-28-08, 10:10 AM	For the life of me i can't remember the name of the class- But: in 2nd edition there was an Al'Qadim arcane caster who basically had a little "familiar". When the caster wanted a spell, the "familiar" went out across the planes to find it for him. If you could find the book for reference (it was fairly time consuming), you could probably craft an Epic spell using the Summoning seed to summon such a critter and then bent it to your will. (perhaps it required Lots of gold and/or xp for the service, as well as %'s of any given spell not being able to be found, etc..) Just another idea :) As to the "time rip" idea- paradox is solved by getting an alternate version of yourself rather than the direct you that's up or down the time stream. -S
Kigan 02-28-08, 06:22 PM	As to the "time rip" idea- paradox is solved by getting an alternate version of yourself rather than the direct you that's up or down the time stream. -S True, but that entirely depends on how one sees the time stream. If you accept alternate time lines, your idea works fine, if like me you believe there is only one, anything you change in the past would not be a change since it would always have been that way, so there comes the paradoxes. If you go back ten years ago to break a statue, people would not be noticing just now that the statue was broken, it was broken ten years ago.:headexplo This is why I never allow time travel in my campaigns: "But if I decide to let my +3 longsword and my ring of invisibility in front of the entrance of the first dungeon we went, my younger, first level self would find it and in turn never would have lost (insert whatever here) so that means I should have all the benefits of (insert whatever here) from now on.":banghead: :raincloud :headexplo
Taeldrin Laesrash 02-28-08, 09:15 PM	I like the idea of a spell-slot renewing Epic spell, like a powerful version of that spell or ability or whatever that lets you break down spell slots. I'm not quite sure how to pull that off, though. (Slightly off-topic, this did give me the idea of an Epic Versatile Spellcaster feat, which would let you combine spells into higher slots (Like two cantrips into a 2nd-level slot, and let you use 9th-level spells to fuel an Epic spell).
Tequila_Sunrise 02-29-08, 01:08 AM	Yeah, I definately think this is a dangerous path to go down. A caster's daily spell alotment is supposed to be the single biggest balancing factor for such characters--despite the fact that at least a couple magic items off the top of my head allow casters to partially get around spells/day (rings of wizardry, pearls of power). As a DM I might allow a spell (not even necessarily epic) or a feat that allowed a caster to refresh relatively weak spell levels more than once a day. After all, by the time a caster gets four-ish bonus spell slots, they're probably never going to run out of slots for that spell level anyway. TS
beej_silver 02-29-08, 08:57 AM	EDIT: On my previous post, I meant the Summon rather than the conjure seed. Time travel has a lot of problems; I agree with Kigan on that much. I did state my apprehensions with my own idea, after all. But say your supra-genius Int38 wizard irons out the problems with the concept (us Int14 individuals can't fathom how he figured out a way around it, and as such are only aware that he somehow conjured a well-rested version of himself with no ill effects). There are still a lot of issues: 1)Said wizard still needs 15 minutes to re-prepare his spells. (yey, sorcerer) 2)You need to locate a well-rested version of yourself; you will not always be well-rested 1, 2, or 3rounds ago. 3) Do this enough and a DM will probably say some Time Deity gets angry. 4)What happens when your summon seed expires? Do you double-lose the slots? Possible fixes: for #1: Add another seed that duplicates a Time-Stop effect, but it should last for 15 minutes. (I would ad-hoc +36DC for a Time Stop Spell, and use normal factors for extending it to 15 minutes) for #2: Word the spell such that the most well-rested version of yourself within 24 hours. That should be enough (Factoring in +6DC/round, that's 6*10*60*24=+86400DC) for #3: Beg and plead to my DM to not sick a god at me. for #4: I dunno... :confused: Point: As DM, I'd say go ahead with it. I mean, if he could make that DC, we must be pretty high in level. This is also my way of saying my 1st idea is not well thought out, and should probably be scrapped. To that end, if someone thinks of an easier way to do this...
rob_douglas 02-29-08, 05:57 PM	One way you could allow it would be to have him teleport to a temporal plane where time moves at a different rate. So he would be gone for 1 round in game terms, but 1 day in his own effectiveness. You have to decide for yourself if there are such planes. Make it an Epic Spell, Transport seed. Transport to a different time stream, like a massive time stop that can only be used for resting. You have to use a bunch of ad hoc to figure out the cost. You could add in requiring XP, an artifact, or whatever you think is fair. You could also have him gone longer than 1 round to make a whole day. ROB
Rikandur_Azebol 03-01-08, 03:04 AM	Are You kidding ? If You want to be nice, buy multi use customized Pearl of Power ... say, 9 lvl one, that can be used at will. Once per round You'll regain one spell-slot up to 9 lvl. Most likely it would cost millions, and sane enemies will take steps to prevent You from using it, after learning about it. Or try to steal it for themselves. Imagine all those frenzied wizards and clerics swarming over You with greed in their eyes ! ;) IMO it should cost as 100 more ordinary 9 lvl pearls, say bye to 8,100,000 gp. Not to mention that it deserves title of Minor Artifact, as nobody will give it freely away. As for non-epic slot-restoring item. Belt of Dread Emperor from "BoVD" for naughty wizards. Just attach the chains to the neck of some fast-healing servant of Yours and 'viola ! But don't forget to pump it's Con score up the sky first. You want a broken "slot-restoring" mechanic ? Look at Warblade closely.
Tshern 03-04-08, 09:29 AM	Warblade's slot restoring broken? The mechanics would be broken if the abilities it entails were even close to being as powerful as spells. I'd like to have a caster who recovers spells semi-spontaneously though.
Old_Troll 03-06-08, 10:08 AM	I was actually exploring the possibility of using the Heal Seed to refresh the mind. Not a far conceptual stretch.