Spells above 9th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spells above 9th level [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amaranth
10-30-07, 07:23 PM Hi all, im building a high level spell caster in an epic campaign thats been going on for a while. We just got a first divine rank, and I chose the divine spellcasting ability. WIth a very high intelligence and several applications of the improved metamagic epic feat, I am having more problems finding ways to boost spells than I am getting the slots for them.
Right now, my main forms of attack are 1) Enhanced x 2, Intensified, energy admixtured (cold), twinned persistent dragon breath (with the piercing cold feat) That makes for 960 damage, possibly 1920 if the breath weapon admixture spell can be applied. 2) Enhanced x 2, Intensified, energy admixtured (cold) twinned orb of cold (or force) for 1680 damage and 3) Intensified timestop to cast any necessary buffs.

Does anyone have any advice on building up a more extensive arsenal, ways to make other spells more playable, etc? Thanks all!

*CL= 39 at the moment, so another enhance wouldnt do much good*
archerpwr
10-30-07, 07:39 PM Direct damage spells stopped being useful 20 levels ago. Just buff yourself and wade into melee.
Amaranth
10-30-07, 07:55 PM I Dont think 1920 points of damage in a 15 foot cone or more than 1600 with no save or SR can be outdone in melee, but if you see a way, please elaborate, and I'll be grateful :)
archerpwr
10-30-07, 08:16 PM I Dont think 1920 points of damage in a 15 foot cone or more than 1600 with no save or SR can be outdone in melee, but if you see a way, please elaborate, and I'll be grateful :)

I don't know what level you are, but my level 26 gish was doing thousands of damage per round. Of course, I had 15ish buffs up at any given time.
rob_douglas
10-30-07, 11:21 PM Some problems with your choices:

1) Evasion means save for no damage. Improved Evasion takes away half damage. And you have to be within 15feet- which is a bad place to be against a good melee artist (15' reach, and Spellcasting Harrier!)

2) Exceptional Deflection, Reflect Arrows - or a Shield of Spell Reflection. Note that you can't Admixture the Orb of Force - it isn't one of the energy types.

3) Spell Opportunity (Time Stop) or Ring of Greater Counterspelling will take care of that trick.

Some other things you can do include Improved Heighten for the saving thows. Make sure you can quicken lots of things, because those will avoid the AoO from Spellcasting Harrier. Widen and Enlarge are nice for making much bigger spells.

I don't have a lot of ideas right now for other spell choices. Just those thoughts for you.

ROB
Gemstone
10-31-07, 04:08 AM As I'm currently running a blaster mage, I can say that yeah, Damage Spells are really down in effectiveness at higher levels :( Especially if you allow such things as "Rings of Evasion". We're currently gonna take away an item from the paladin in the group (Boots of quickness or whatever they are called) as he's basicly immortal and immune to magic as long as he wears them.

If you can boost your spell save DC and increase the damage output (warmage?), it could get useful again... I'm sooner or later gonna craft an "Epic Fireball", just because I can ;)
Sagetim
10-31-07, 06:42 PM As I'm currently running a blaster mage, I can say that yeah, Damage Spells are really down in effectiveness at higher levels :( Especially if you allow such things as "Rings of Evasion". We're currently gonna take away an item from the paladin in the group (Boots of quickness or whatever they are called) as he's basicly immortal and immune to magic as long as he wears them.

If you can boost your spell save DC and increase the damage output (warmage?), it could get useful again... I'm sooner or later gonna craft an "Epic Fireball", just because I can ;)

I'd suggest making a 'non epic hellball' It's Admixture on Delayed blast fireball adding in cold, acid, sonic and lightning damage. level 23 spell there. It would be doing...what? 100d6 damage in five elements? If you still have spell levels to burn, empower, maximize, or intensify it.

downside to the spell: dc of a level 7 to avoid it.
BillTheManiac
11-01-07, 07:15 AM I'd suggest making a 'non epic hellball' It's Admixture on Delayed blast fireball adding in cold, acid, sonic and lightning damage. level 23 spell there. It would be doing...what? 100d6 damage in five elements? If you still have spell levels to burn, empower, maximize, or intensify it.

downside to the spell: dc of a level 7 to avoid it.

Inefficient. I believe most doublings stack, so if you twinned it and maximized it and repeat-ed it you'd be doing more damage. +16 levels for x5 is definitely not efficient.
rob_douglas
11-01-07, 06:49 PM Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot.

ROB
BillTheManiac
11-02-07, 07:43 AM Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot.

ROB

Because they can tell it's a repeat spell. Yeah. The first time it would get them, the second time, don't use a repeat spell, and trick them into moving. 3rd time, if they're not dead already, do whatever.
rob_douglas
11-05-07, 11:53 AM Spellcraft check should be able to tell them it is a Repeat spell. Sure, there are some folks that won't have it, and won't have any allies that have it, but the DC to identify the spell would be pretty trivial to make.

ROB
Gemstone
11-05-07, 02:58 PM Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot.

ROB

Wait what? doesn't repeat spell hit the same target, ie. the intended creature or spot? If I target a character with a Finger of Death, the spell still targets that character even if he moves?
rob_douglas
11-06-07, 11:13 AM The example was a repeated Delayed blast fireball - it hits the same spot. A finger of death will only work again if the target doesn't move more than 30feet. It is cast again, and has to deal with range, line of effect, etc, things that can all change, especially in an epic game. Repeat spell is not nearly as useful.

ROB

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amaranth 10-30-07, 07:23 PM	Hi all, im building a high level spell caster in an epic campaign thats been going on for a while. We just got a first divine rank, and I chose the divine spellcasting ability. WIth a very high intelligence and several applications of the improved metamagic epic feat, I am having more problems finding ways to boost spells than I am getting the slots for them. Right now, my main forms of attack are 1) Enhanced x 2, Intensified, energy admixtured (cold), twinned persistent dragon breath (with the piercing cold feat) That makes for 960 damage, possibly 1920 if the breath weapon admixture spell can be applied. 2) Enhanced x 2, Intensified, energy admixtured (cold) twinned orb of cold (or force) for 1680 damage and 3) Intensified timestop to cast any necessary buffs. Does anyone have any advice on building up a more extensive arsenal, ways to make other spells more playable, etc? Thanks all! CL= 39 at the moment, so another enhance wouldnt do much good
archerpwr 10-30-07, 07:39 PM	Direct damage spells stopped being useful 20 levels ago. Just buff yourself and wade into melee.
Amaranth 10-30-07, 07:55 PM	I Dont think 1920 points of damage in a 15 foot cone or more than 1600 with no save or SR can be outdone in melee, but if you see a way, please elaborate, and I'll be grateful :)
archerpwr 10-30-07, 08:16 PM	I Dont think 1920 points of damage in a 15 foot cone or more than 1600 with no save or SR can be outdone in melee, but if you see a way, please elaborate, and I'll be grateful :) I don't know what level you are, but my level 26 gish was doing thousands of damage per round. Of course, I had 15ish buffs up at any given time.
rob_douglas 10-30-07, 11:21 PM	Some problems with your choices: 1) Evasion means save for no damage. Improved Evasion takes away half damage. And you have to be within 15feet- which is a bad place to be against a good melee artist (15' reach, and Spellcasting Harrier!) 2) Exceptional Deflection, Reflect Arrows - or a Shield of Spell Reflection. Note that you can't Admixture the Orb of Force - it isn't one of the energy types. 3) Spell Opportunity (Time Stop) or Ring of Greater Counterspelling will take care of that trick. Some other things you can do include Improved Heighten for the saving thows. Make sure you can quicken lots of things, because those will avoid the AoO from Spellcasting Harrier. Widen and Enlarge are nice for making much bigger spells. I don't have a lot of ideas right now for other spell choices. Just those thoughts for you. ROB
Gemstone 10-31-07, 04:08 AM	As I'm currently running a blaster mage, I can say that yeah, Damage Spells are really down in effectiveness at higher levels :( Especially if you allow such things as "Rings of Evasion". We're currently gonna take away an item from the paladin in the group (Boots of quickness or whatever they are called) as he's basicly immortal and immune to magic as long as he wears them. If you can boost your spell save DC and increase the damage output (warmage?), it could get useful again... I'm sooner or later gonna craft an "Epic Fireball", just because I can ;)
Sagetim 10-31-07, 06:42 PM	As I'm currently running a blaster mage, I can say that yeah, Damage Spells are really down in effectiveness at higher levels :( Especially if you allow such things as "Rings of Evasion". We're currently gonna take away an item from the paladin in the group (Boots of quickness or whatever they are called) as he's basicly immortal and immune to magic as long as he wears them. If you can boost your spell save DC and increase the damage output (warmage?), it could get useful again... I'm sooner or later gonna craft an "Epic Fireball", just because I can ;) I'd suggest making a 'non epic hellball' It's Admixture on Delayed blast fireball adding in cold, acid, sonic and lightning damage. level 23 spell there. It would be doing...what? 100d6 damage in five elements? If you still have spell levels to burn, empower, maximize, or intensify it. downside to the spell: dc of a level 7 to avoid it.
BillTheManiac 11-01-07, 07:15 AM	I'd suggest making a 'non epic hellball' It's Admixture on Delayed blast fireball adding in cold, acid, sonic and lightning damage. level 23 spell there. It would be doing...what? 100d6 damage in five elements? If you still have spell levels to burn, empower, maximize, or intensify it. downside to the spell: dc of a level 7 to avoid it. Inefficient. I believe most doublings stack, so if you twinned it and maximized it and repeat-ed it you'd be doing more damage. +16 levels for x5 is definitely not efficient.
rob_douglas 11-01-07, 06:49 PM	Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot. ROB
BillTheManiac 11-02-07, 07:43 AM	Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot. ROB Because they can tell it's a repeat spell. Yeah. The first time it would get them, the second time, don't use a repeat spell, and trick them into moving. 3rd time, if they're not dead already, do whatever.
rob_douglas 11-05-07, 11:53 AM	Spellcraft check should be able to tell them it is a Repeat spell. Sure, there are some folks that won't have it, and won't have any allies that have it, but the DC to identify the spell would be pretty trivial to make. ROB
Gemstone 11-05-07, 02:58 PM	Don't forget that Repeat happens next round, on your turn, with the exact same target - meaning that they would have to be a total dope to be standing in the exact same spot. ROB Wait what? doesn't repeat spell hit the same target, ie. the intended creature or spot? If I target a character with a Finger of Death, the spell still targets that character even if he moves?
rob_douglas 11-06-07, 11:13 AM	The example was a repeated Delayed blast fireball - it hits the same spot. A finger of death will only work again if the target doesn't move more than 30feet. It is cast again, and has to deal with range, line of effect, etc, things that can all change, especially in an epic game. Repeat spell is not nearly as useful. ROB