Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-08-08, 07:24 PM	I just entered this in the Immortals Handbook epic monster design competition. Just looking for some feedback from the people here knowledgable concering high-epic play. It might be miss cr'd for all the abilities it has, but its not supposed to be easy to kill. Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion Colossal Outsider (Evil, Incorporeal) HD: 100d100 +5850 +3000 (18,850 hp) Initiative: +40 (+32 Dexterity, +8 Superior Initiative) Speed: Fly 1280 ft (Perfect) AC: 234 (+24 Antidivine +32 Dexterity +58 Deflection +38 Insight +42 Profane +30 Natural) Flat-footed: 202 Touch: 204 Base Attack/Grapple: +100/ - Attack: - Full Attack: - Face/Reach: 40 ft/25 ft Special Abilities: Alter Reality, Death Throes, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Hecatoncheires, Void Breath Special Qualities: Antidivinity, Dr 100/Epic, Good, and Lawful, Execration Essence, Godblight, Incorporeal Traits, Nonexistence, Regeneration 350, Retribution, SR 140, Supernal Conveyance, Temporal Travesty Saves: Fort +154 Ref +156 Will +166 Abilities: Str- Dex 75 Con 70 Int 87 Wis 94 Cha 127 Skills: Omnicompetent and Maven, all skills =127 + Relevant Ability Modifier Feats: Improved Initiative, Heighten Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Widen Spell, Enlarge Spell Epic Feats: Superior Initiative, Metamagic Freedom, Automatic Metamagic Capacity (27) Environment: the Stellar Void Organization: Solitary or riding Great Wyrm Void Dragon Cr: 100 Treasure: None Alignment: Always Neutral Evil Before you towers a looming monolith (vaguely humanoid in stature, though ineffably greater) of absolute nothingness. It appears as a shallow, two-dimensional hole in the fabric of Reality, Time, and Existence. Its entire non-being resonates with dolorous energies antithetical to all Creation. It has no discernable features; its entire “body” seems to be a massed conglomeration of churning, unearthly black waters, held together by an indomitable supernal will. Although, if you peer closely, you notice (or least pretend to notice) two vastly alien orbs (lurid and lustrous with abominable splendor) agleam with terrible intelligence and execrable malevolence, buried deep within the swirling vortex of void-energy that makes up its “head” The Unfettered Titans of Oblivion are the greatest and most horrible of all the children of the Immortal Dark, apocalyptic sentinels of unhallowed majesty who herald the end times of dimensions. They are horrifically powerful, beyond even the ability of immortals to defeat. (Indeed, deities are among their most favored prey). Although few in number, their abysmal might is enough to turn the tide of any battle in their favor, and far fewer still is the number of their slain, for rare indeed is the demise of these awesome entities. Combat: An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion takes unholy delight in sublime annihilation. They generally open combat by using their Summon Hecatoncheires ability to distract opponents, followed by judicious use of their Void Breath. They specifically target immortals if they are present on the field, as well any creature that attempts to use Time Stop or the like, who quickly find themselves at the mercy of their anathematic foe Alter Reality (Ex): As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may duplicate the effect of any spell whose level is 33 or lower, including the application of any metamagic feats. It may also duplicate any Epic Spell whose DC is 185 or lower Antidivinity (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of the Oblivion, although the undying foe of all entities divine, nonetheless possesses a sadistic and profane semblance of Divinity. It receives a +24 Antidivine Bonus on Attacks, Ac, Damage Rolls, Saves, Skill Checks, etc Death Throes (Su): When an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion dies, it fulminates with a catastrophic fulguration of odious nether-power. Everything with 24 miles receives 10d10 permanent Hit Dice annihilation (Fortitude Save DC 134 for ½) Execration Essence (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion is the utter anathema of Reality and Existence. It is afforded awesome and terrible malefic puissance. On a failed save of any kind, it takes only ½ the intended effect; on a successful save, it takes no effect. Godblight (Su): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion is the bane of all immortals. Any deity into whose Divine Aura the Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion enters loses any Divine Bonus it possesses and also receives an Antidivine Penalty of the same value wherever such would apply Nonexistence (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion “exists” only in an ephemeral and perverse sense of the word. Any effect to which it would be subjected has a 75% chance of failure. In addition, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion is immune to the following: Ability Damage, Ability Drain, Alignment-based Effects, Banishment, Critical Hits, Death Effects, Disease, Divine Damage, Energy Damage, Energy Drain, Fear, Force Damage, Level Loss, Mind Affecting Effects, Paralysis, Permanent Damage, Poison, Sleep, Sneak Attacks, and Stunning Regeneration (Ex): No form of damage overcomes an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion’s regeneration. To be killed, it must be reduced to -18,850 HP and Wished dead. The Wish must bypass SR twice to take effect. An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion remains concious and can act as normal when its hp falls below 0 Retribution (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion’s “flesh” is aberrant to any semblance of atomic orderliness. Anyone dealing damage to the creature tales an equal amount of the same type of damage in return. In addition, any weapon striking the Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion must make a Fortitude Save (DC 132) or be Disjoined Spell-like Abilities: CL 124 DC 92 + Spell Level At Will- Miracle, Reality Revision, Wish Supernal Conveyance (Ex): As a Free Action, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may teleport anywhere in the Kosmos with no chance of failure Summon Hecatoncheires (Su): As a standard action 1/day, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may summon 10d4 (greater) Pseudonatural Hecatoncheires Temporal Travesty (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion is an entity unfettered by the Laws of Time. It is immune to the effects of Time Stop or similar spells and may take two rounds of actions in a single round. In addition, it acts first on every round of combat, regardless of initiative. Void Breath (Su): As a standard action 1/round, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may exhale a cone of utter annihilation. This cone is 5000 ft long and deals 1000 points of permanent damage (no save) to anyone caught within the effect
A_Fatter_MaN 03-08-08, 09:15 PM	:mrt: i think the CR may be a little low.......'cause uhhhhhhh its crazy stupid hard to kill godd job:pile:
Tshern 03-09-08, 08:29 AM	Regeneration (Ex): No form of damage overcomes an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion’s regeneration. To be killed, it must be reduced to -18,850 HP and Wished dead. The Wish must bypass SR twice to take effect. Wish has to pass his SR twice? That is relatively weird. Summon Hecatoncheires (Su): As a standard action 1/day, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may summon 20d4 Paragon Hecatoncheires To me, this goes over the top. Heca alone is CR 57 and paragon adds 12 to that, meaning that he'll summon, on average, 50 CR 69 monsters. Too much I think. Temporal Travesty (Ex): An Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion is an entity unfettered by the Laws of Time. It is immune to the effects of Time Stop or similar spells and may take two rounds of actions in a single round. How exactly is he immune to Time stop? It does nothing to him and affects him in NO WAY whatsoever. This would've worked in second edition, but not anymore. You could just as well say that he is immune to Divine power and then no-one can cast it when he's around. This just doesn't work mechanically. Void Breath (Su): As a standard action 1/round, an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion may exhale a cone of utter annihilation. This cone is 5000 ft long and deals 1000 points of permanent damage (no save) to anyone caught within the eff You mean vile damage? Death Throes (Su): When an Untrammeled Titan of Oblivion dies, it fulminates with a catastrophic fulguration of odious nether-power. Everything with 24 miles receives 10d10 permanent Hit Dice annihilation (Fortitude Save DC 134 for ½) Everyone randomly loses on average 55 levels? Good job in general though.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 09:45 AM	Wish has to pass his SR twice? That is relatively weird. To me, this goes over the top. Heca alone is CR 57 and paragon adds 12 to that, meaning that he'll summon, on average, 50 CR 69 monsters. Too much I think. How exactly is he immune to Time stop? It does nothing to him and affects him in NO WAY whatsoever. This would've worked in second edition, but not anymore. You could just as well say that he is immune to Divine power and then no-one can cast it when he's around. This just doesn't work mechanically. You mean vile damage? Everyone randomly loses on average 55 levels? Good job in general though. Thanks for commenting. Let' see Wish has to pass his SR twice? That is relatively weird. Well, I originally made him using Dicefreaks rules and required Wish to bypass a Rank Check to kill him, but the Immortals Handbook doesn't use Rank Checks, so I changed to Wish checking twice against SR. Maybe it should only be once? Or is there some other way it could fail that I'm not adressing? (Effected by his Nonexistence perhaps?) To me, this goes over the top. Heca alone is CR 57 and paragon adds 12 to that, meaning that he'll summon, on average, 50 CR 69 monsters. Too much I think. Do you actually consider a Heca to be that CR? At level 100, even with Paragon, they're practically useless, only good for crits. Plus, he's probably above cr 100. Maybe 10d4? I ran a test with my friend where he was accompanied by 48 hecas and they went down to 2 divine blasts so it wasn't that big of a deal. How exactly is he immune to Time stop? It does nothing to him and affects him in NO WAY whatsoever. This would've worked in second edition, but not anymore. You could just as well say that he is immune to Divine power and then no-one can cast it when he's around. This just doesn't work mechanically. This is actually an effect from the Immortals Handbook, so I'm not surprised its unfamiliar to you. Basically, whenever someone uses TS or the like, he goes with them and acts as normal (including going first on their private initiative). He exists outside of the Time Stream, so stopping it temporarily does nothing to effect his ability to interact with you. You mean vile damage? No, I mean permanent damage. Can only be healed by Wish or Miracle at a rate of 1 point per CL. Everyone randomly loses on average 55 levels? Yes. Those can be healed in the same manner as permanent damage, I believe, but I'm not positive on that one. So, any idea what CR it should be? I mean, by 100, you can do really crazy things, but this might be a little to hard for even that.
Tshern 03-09-08, 12:31 PM	Well, I originally made him using Dicefreaks rules and required Wish to bypass a Rank Check to kill him, but the Immortals Handbook doesn't use Rank Checks, so I changed to Wish checking twice against SR. Maybe it should only be once? Or is there some other way it could fail that I'm not adressing? (Effected by his Nonexistence perhaps?) Ah, an adaptation from the Immortals. That explains it. I suppose this works alright then. I, however, fail to find what his SR is. Do you actually consider a Heca to be that CR? At level 100, even with Paragon, they're practically useless, only good for crits. Plus, he's probably above cr 100. Maybe 10d4? I ran a test with my friend where he was accompanied by 48 hecas and they went down to 2 divine blasts so it wasn't that big of a deal. After beating one up at level 19? Not really, no. The point is, rule-wise these nasties would be CR69 and thusly 10d4 would be better. I also think Greater Pseudonatural from the ELH would be more suitable for them. The thing is, any action spent against the summons is an action taken away from beating up the main foe. This is actually an effect from the Immortals Handbook, so I'm not surprised its unfamiliar to you. Basically, whenever someone uses TS or the like, he goes with them and acts as normal (including going first on their private initiative). He exists outside of the Time Stream, so stopping it temporarily does nothing to effect his ability to interact with you. Right. That makes a lot more sense then. No, I mean permanent damage. Can only be healed by Wish or Miracle at a rate of 1 point per CL. And how can you protect yourself from both this and that weird permanent level drain? I wonder if I was able to take this sucker out without infinity loops with one of the Dicefreaks gods with minor altering. I think I just about might manage to do it with a CR60 god or so.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 12:45 PM	His SR is in his Special Qualities, as 140. I tporbably should be either 144 or 136 however. 144= HD +20 +Antidivine Rank, 136= HD +12 +Antidivine Rank. Which would you suggest? So, 10d4 Pseudonatural Hecatoncheires for the summon? Sounds good to me. As for permanent damage, I honestly know of no way to protect oneself from it, although once the actual rules are published in Immortals Handbook: Ascension, there might be a way, since I'm only familiar with the Bestiary. If anyone else here knows, feel free to notify me. As it stands though, permanent damage is one of the more dangerous effects going arounhd at these levels, especially the HD annihilation. Of course, this thing's immune to it. :P I suppose a Celerity+Teleport or somesuch tactic would allow you to avoid his breath once or twice, or a Divine Dodge maybe. As for your challenge, I'm not sure I can capably run this thing, but I'd like to hear your ideas on how to kill it. If you're using a god though, do watch out for his Godblight. And if you're using DF rules, you his rengeration only requires SR bypass once and a Rank Check against his Antidivine Rank (24)
Tshern 03-09-08, 02:20 PM	Go for HD+20+ADvR. I was thinking of modifying Mystra a bit. She's got that nasty ability called Deny the Weave which would shut down quite a bit of his abilities, including Godblight. Then I just need a way to crank my CL up and hit that monster with Maw of Chaos with a lot of metamagic feats. Multispell a few times, then do multiple Maws, all intensified. I'd, of course, need to make myself immune to it first.
Tequila_Sunrise 03-09-08, 02:57 PM	If your monster has a higher SR than its CR + 20, it might as well have a golem's spell immunity because casters will basically never get past it.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 03:43 PM	At this level I would hope a caster can get a higher SR check than that. Like I said, I haven't read Ascension yet, but I'm sure it has some nifty abilities for casters. Or the Alter Reality SDA for that matter. It can be bypassed. Epic Spell Penetration + those 2 spells in SC knock off 26 (if they land passed Nonexistence) @Tshern: Do you happen to have the Mystra stats handy? I searched at DF and couldn't find them. I remember seeing them on the old site before it went down but can't remember the specifics. I'm not terribly conerned either way since this thing was made for my homebrew setting, so Mystra's really a non-issue. But for purposes of you defeating it, sure, bring whatever you want. I'm assuming that Deny the Weave ability shuts down its Nonexistence? Maw of Chaos does Force damage, right? Oh, and just so fair's fair. The IH uses an epic feat called Metamagic Freedom that lets you stack Empower, Widen, etc as many times as you want up to your maximum spell slots. No intensify though, since Intensify is just Maximize plus 2 Empowers. (Same thing really)
Tshern 03-09-08, 05:45 PM	Deny the Weave takes away any and all magical abilities. Spells, supernatural and spell-likes. And no, Maw of Chaos doesn't do force damage. It does damage. No save, no spell resistance. You can only protect yourself by being of chaotic subtype, which this monster isn't. However, without Deny the Weave, I'd have huge troubles against this bad guy. Also, I think you got it wrong. I am not actually planning on building anything to fight the monster. Don't have the time, it was just a thought. Mystra's in this thread. (http://projectdf.phpbbnow.com/viewtopic.php?t=902&highlight=mystra)
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 07:00 PM	Also, I think you got it wrong. I am not actually planning on building anything to fight the monster. Don't have the time, it was just a thought. Aww too bad. :P Oh well, you've been helpful either way. So Deny the Weave takes care of all of his Su abilities and his SLAs. That still leaves him with Alter Reality and Nonexistence, which are probably his two strongest abilities. By the way, do you notice any of the abilities that should be Su and I have them as Ex instead? (or vice versa) I'm not terribly familiar with which particular abiltiies are which. Thanks
Tshern 03-09-08, 07:29 PM	I'd make Alter reality an SDA actually. Everything else should be in order. To be honest, I am lot more worried about Godblight than anything else he has. Without that, I could take him. Probably. Just getting a bag of squirrels, Greater consumptive field and when my caster level is good enough, I'd teleport close to him, use Deny the Weave, teleport next to him, use Greater celerity and unleash like 20 intensified Maws and watch him burn.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 07:57 PM	SDAs aren't Ex or Su? Never knew that. Personally, I'd be more worried about Nonexistence since 75% of those Maws don't effect him each round. (And its an Ex not Su so it still apllies). Especially since after 1 round he can Alter Reality and Teleport away (or maybe you have a contingency for that?) Realisitically, I'd say he has foresight, uses Greater Celerity and Time Stop himself and spams 2 Void Breaths before Mystra can do anything. (But that gets into conflicting immediate actions and I don't really want to go there, but since he never runs out, I'd say he wins initiative when all's said and done.) So we set the line on cheesiness just above Greater Consumptive Field? How conveneint. :P Plus, if I was DMing it, I'd rule that you take all of the damage he does from Retribution, even though you're hitting with a spell. Of course, you never specified that you had to live through taking him down, right? Oh, wait, you have to be able to Wish him dead so... Maybe a contingency? Just to clarify, you have no way of getting rid of Ex abilities, right?
Tshern 03-09-08, 08:14 PM	So we set the line on cheesiness just above Greater Consumptive Field? How conveneint. We set the line of cheesiness to Immortals Handbook really. Anyways, there are ways to crank my caster level. Taint is a good one too. SDAs aren't Ex or Su? Never knew that. Just SDAs. Never provoke AoOs and so forth. Realisitically, I'd say he has foresight, uses Greater Celerity and Time Stop himself and spams 2 Void Breaths before Mystra can do anything. (But that gets into conflicting immediate actions and I don't really want to go there, but since he never runs out, I'd say he wins initiative when all's said and done.) All of a sudden, he loses his Foresight and spellcasting abilities. Sure, he's got Alter reality, but it'd take a standard action for him to use it to duplicate any of those effects, including Greater Celerity. Were I to fight him, I'd naturally pick Superior initiative SDA and always go first. Plus, if I was DMing it, I'd rule that you take all of the damage he does from Retribution, even though you're hitting with a spell. Of course, you never specified that you had to live through taking him down, right? Oh, wait, you have to be able to Wish him dead so... Maybe a contingency? So I would be using Maw of Chaos (or a few dozen of them) without being immune to it? You must be kidding me, mate. I'd acquire chaotic subtype and just be immune. If you insist I take the damage, I'll just use Delay death and Beastland ferocity. Just to clarify, you have no way of getting rid of Ex abilities, right? Making an epic spell might do it, but I wasn't planning anything like that. Personally, I'd be more worried about Nonexistence since 75% of those Maws don't effect him each round. (And its an Ex not Su so it still apllies). Especially since after 1 round he can Alter Reality and Teleport away (or maybe you have a contingency for that?) Dimensional anchor should do. In addition, I'd only need a few Maws to hit this guy and then just follow him forever. I could of course use a Wish to make sure he fails his save against the daze effect and merely cast (use it as an SLA really) that Wish every round keeping him getting dazed from Maw of Chaos each and every round until he bites the dust.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 08:38 PM	Not bad. Not bad at all. Of course, that's a strategy that would work against most anything that doesn't have the Chaotic subtype. Only problem I see is that his Execration Essence overides even Supreme Initiative. (Perhaps that part of the ability should be listed under Temporal Travesty instead? Seems like it would fir better there) Just one more question, if you were running this thing, how would you stop that strat? -- oh, by the way, I don't have my SC with me at the moment, but does Maw have the Chaos descriptor? If so, I think he's actually immune to it, since he's immune to Alignment Based Effects. (Among other things) Question- do you think he should be immune to any of the following too (or anything else you can think of) posion, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, banishment, fear. Most of those are covered under divine immunties (which he lacks) but I'm kind of considering giving them to him anyways. Maybe under antidivinity? Lastly, just to be arugmentative, lets say we're using DF rules. How does your Mystra succeed on the Rank Check? (let's rule that he's one strata above greater deity) Damn, I just keep thinking of more things. How overpowered would it be to allow him to remain concious even in negative hp?
Tshern 03-09-08, 08:59 PM	Only problem I see is that his Execration Essence overides even Supreme Initiative. (Perhaps that part of the ability should be listed under Temporal Travesty instead? Seems like it would fir better there) Oh well, making hide check of 190 should do. Or 210, so that I can move and sneak around with him having any chance of seeing me. Darkstalker takes care of all those pesky blindsights and whatnot. -- oh, by the way, I don't have my SC with me at the moment, but does Maw have the Chaos descriptor? If so, I think he's actually immune to it, since he's immune to Alignment Based Effects. (Among other things) It does have a [Chaotic] descriptor. Mystra'll simply device an epic spell to duplicate the effect of Maw of Chaos without a descriptor that will punch through this guy. Making sure she's immune to the effect of course. Or just use the Delay death-trick. Question- do you think he should be immune to any of the following too (or anything else you can think of) posion, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, banishment, fear. Most of those are covered under divine immunties (which he lacks) but I'm kind of considering giving them to him anyways. Maybe under antidivinity? To all of those I think. Banishment is the only one I can see punching through, but even that is a long shot. Lastly, just to be arugmentative, lets say we're using DF rules. How does your Mystra succeed on the Rank Check? (let's rule that he's one strata above greater deity) Perpetual spamming. Damn, I just keep thinking of more things. How overpowered would it be to allow him to remain concious even in negative hp? Relatively, but then again if someone can beat him like this, I doubt that would make any difference. It would still be overpowered. Just one more question, if you were running this thing, how would you stop that strat? Don't know really. Not messing with Mystra is a decent start. I'll tell you if I come up with something. Anyways, this thing seems to lack immunity to mind-affecting stuff. Just maxing diplomacy and having charisma 40 would net you 138 and throwing in divine rank, say, 12 would give you 150. Hostile to fanatic in one simple check.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-09-08, 09:06 PM	Anyways, this thing seems to lack immunity to mind-affecting stuff. Now he does:devil: I'll add in all those immunities, excluding banishment. Funny, during the playtest, the caster actually won the fight by spamming Banishment a few dozen times. Good call there. Thanks for all the help with this. Edit- by the way, do you think he actually lives up to CR 100? It seems kind of heavy handed to throw all those ridiculous abilities around, but they're kind of neccessary at this level, IMO. I just worry that he might seem a little absolute. (Ha! you should see the stats for these things' master. There's an unkillable enemy)
Tshern 03-10-08, 06:08 AM	Depends on what kind of characters does that CR100 party involve. With melee focus, this would probably live up to his reputation, although one decent charge should smack him down to negative hitpoints. Then again, seeing that he goes first, he should play it smart with those Hecas and other abilities. Against a party of well optimized casters? There is just no way in hell this is CR100, but D&D's CR system was planned against ordinary parties and level 100 is way beyond the point when the CR system becomes not only occasionally irrational, but inconsistent by default. I have never played in a decent game (we had a stupid thing with level 80 Greater deities, lasted around 2 hours) above level 23, so I can't really comment on this one with a reasonable amount of expertise. Now when I think of it, is there any reason the tactics I proposed would not work on this guy without using Deny the Weave? Just don't be a god and avoid Godblight that way. Teleport in, cast Greater Celerity, disjoin the monster making it lose all supernatural abilities and active buffs (quickened), use Quickened Wish to make him fail the next save and then start spamming modified Maw of Chaos.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 09:08 AM	Well, a charger alone ccan't kill him and is likely to die before he can act, but I can see how it would be a viable option with even minimal caster support. Is there any way to make him a challenge at L100, even for optimized casters? (Epic spells don't really exist in my games, so in practice this thing is a lot harder to kill) I think that games at this level kind of require a chessiness contract between DM and PCs, since this thing, with preparation, can probably destroy nearly anything too. One tends to notice though, in my high-epic games, that being a deity is usually more of a liability than a bonus :P The only hole I can see in your strat without Deny the Weave is that I see nowhere in MDJs description that says he loses access to his SLAs, in which case he is a far more fearsome adversary. (Do keep in mind, that feat his has 27 times (AMC) allows him to add 1 free level a metamagic to his spells every round per number of times he has the feat.) Plus, if you teleport in and spam celerity, he reciprocates with the same before you can cast MDJ, in which case you run out of celerities unless you have unlimited access to them like he does. (that AMC feat negates the need for multispell, he just pays 4 slots of MM to quicken a spell) So yeah, you might need deny the weave. And if I wanted to be a real jerk, I would interpret the description of Celerity (which mentions Time) and say that he is completely unnaffected by it and acts first regardless.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 11:43 AM	Also, if you've got the time, take a look at this one. I don't think there is any way to kill him. (Without infinite loops of course, although I think it would be tricky even with those) This is the creator of the Untrammeled Titans of Oblivion. Overgod SDAs are courtesy of Kain Darkwind. Credit goes to RagnarokIsComing2007 for helping with the initial design. Baalzoth The Crown of Darkness, Darksome Liege of the Hellspawned Night, the Immortal Dark, the Black Progenitor, the Lord of the Black Eternity, the Anathema of the Convocation, the Ender of Existence, Antithesis Unto All Creation, the Shade Imperishable, the Infallible Lord of Nothingness Macro-Colossal Dragon (chaotic, evil, extraplanar) Antidivine Rank:40 HD: 250d100 + 8,400 +50,000 +15,600 (100,000 hp) Initiative: +71, always first Speed: 4000 ft, fly 8,000 ft (perfect) AC: 487 (+40 Antidivine, +90 deflection, +23 Dex, +120 epic mage armor, +52 Insight +160 natural) touch 217, flat-footed 354 BAB/ Grapple: +250/+339 Attack: Bite +409 melee touch (120d10 +257 plus disintegration plus 720/10-20/x5) Full attack: Bite +409 melee touch (120d10 +257 plus disintegration plus 720 Permanent Damage/10-20/x5), and 4 claws +407/+402/+397/+392 melee touch (80d10 + 169 plus 720 Permanent Damage/10-20/x5), and 4 wings +407/+402/+397/+392 melee (60d10 + 169 plus 720 Permanent Damage /10-20/x5), and 2 tail slaps +407/+402/+397/+392 melee (80d10 + 169 plus 720 Permanent Damage /10-20/x5), and gore +407 melee (120d10 + 169 plus 720 Permanent Damage/10-20/x5) Space/reach: 2,560ft./ 1,240ft. Special attacks: Anathema of the Elder Lords, Death Throes, Devastation Deified, Elder Blasphemy, Maw of Extinction, Entropic Breath of the Void, Pandemonium Visage, Omega Vortex, Salient Divine Abilities, Smite Good 40/day +40 to hit +150 to damage, Epic Spell Casting, Spell-like Abilities Special qualities: Arch-Foe of Eternity, Cosmic Progenitor, Shade Imperishable, Darkvision 4000 ft., DR 400/-, DR 4000/ epic, greater good, and greater lawful, Regeneration 4000, Immunity to ability drain, death effects, disease, disintegration, divine damage, energy damage, energy drain, holy damage, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stunning, transmutation, unholy damage, imprisonment, and banishment, SR300, Telepathy 4000 ft. Saves: Fort +256, Ref +213, Will +234 Abilities: Str 256, Dex 56, Con 123, Int 98, Wis 115, Cha 190 Skills: Omnicompetent and Maven: All skills= 293 + Relevant Ability Modifier Feats: Improved Initiative, Improved Critical (Bite, Claw, Gore, Wing, Tail), Multiweapon Fighting, Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Greater Multiweapon Fighting, Multi Attack, Improved Multi Attack, Rapid Strike (Wings, Claws x2, Tail), Improved Rapid Strike (Wings, Claws x2, Tail), Shockwave, Snatch, Improved Snatch, Multisnatch, Rend, Snatch and Swallow, Tail Constrict, Tail Sweep Knockdown, Wing Storm, Fly-by Attack, Greater Fly-by Attack, Adroit Fly-by Attack, Maximize Spell, Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Widen Spell, Quicken Spell, Twin Spell, Repeat Spell, Violate Spell, Corrupt Spell, Transdimensional Spell. Heighten Spell, Sculpt Spell Epic Feats: Superior Initiative, Overwhelming Critical (Bite, Claw, Gore, Wing, Tail), Devastating Critical (Bite, Claw, Gore, Wing, Tail), Dire Charge, Great Smiting (5), Perfect Multiweapon Fighting, Epic Potency (30), Intensify Spell, Unbound Spell, Immediate Spell, Improved Metamagic (7), Multispell (10) Environment: The Stellar Void, fettered beyond time by the Convocation of the Antediluvian Entities Organization: Solitary (unique) or with Zaath’Kaiir Treasure: None Alignment: Chaotic Evil And opposite, in this moment both infinitesimal and profoundly unending, all of the heinous, morbid ideals embodied by the Shade Imperishable doth convene into a single entity, unparalleled in malice and spite. Behemothic and draconian, composed of acrid black smoke and wearing a malefic sable coronet, he doth embody all things oppressive and destructive. Baalzoth, the Crown of Darkness, he art named; the Darksome Liege of the Hellspawned Night, the undying foe of all Creation. Ever shalt he wage apocalyptic war upon his nemesis, and ever shalt he seek to return Existence unto the primordial Cosmic Void that hath spawned him. For his sole, perverse desire art to embody, within his own malign supremacy, the whole of All, and hold nighted dominion over all things as the infallible lord of nothingness, unequaled in his capacity to destroy. *** Lo, Eriahim, and behold: in the uttermost end, thy folly doth at last supersede thy wisdom; for naught born of Creation’s Furnace may ever rend my nebulous hide, nor hope to pierce mine ersatz heart. For I am Divinity, a lord above all deities of Light or Dark; and I am Eternity, born beyond Time and trammeled without It, destined to brood forevermore in the Void Beyond; and I am Existence, usurper and perverter of all things wrought in vain genesis. Timeless and impure shalt I reign forever as the Darksome Liege of the Hellspawned Night. Beyond the death of All shalt I endure, crowned with bane and blasphemy. At long last, when all the dreams of men and gods have finally diminished unto the ephemeral ether, I shall remain, undying and profane: the Infallible Lord of Nothingness. For, I am Baalzoth, the Crown of Darkness, the Prime Adversary, Anathema of the Convocation, Lord of the Black Eternity, and Antithesis Unto All Creation! I am the Immortal Dark that doth dwell undying, enthroned amidst oblivion, beyond Light, Time, and Truth. No deed, by life or by death, may triumph beneath my Shadow-Blazon, for it doth encompass All! Make ready thyselves, children of futility, and knoweth sublime bereavement, for now, at the end of Eternity Itself, as wast long foretold and equally feared, I am releasèd! Combat: Baalzoth’s natural attacks are considered epic, greater chaotic, and greater evil for purposes of overcoming a creature’s damage reduction Anathema of the Elder Lords (Ex): Baalzoth is the bane of all divinity. Any deity that enters his Divine Aura must make succeed on a Rank Check or lose all of their divine power (including Divine Rank, Salient Divine Abilities, etc...). Also, Baalzoth can pervert this divine energy into a sort of Antidivinity, allowing him to spawn abominations. (The abomination must be related to the stolen divinity's portfolio. i.e. an Ice God would breed a Xixecal. These abominations are considered Paragon and Pseudonatrual and always have maximum HD. They possess a Divine Rank equal to the amount stolen, along with all the benefits thereof.). Arch-Foe of Eternity (Ex): Baalzoth is completely unbound by the Fetters of Time. He is immune to the effects of Time Stop and the like, and is considered to exist simultaneously in all time streams. Any mortal facing him does not receive actions in combat. Against a deity or Cosmic Entity, Baalzoth has a number of actions equal to the difference in their Divine Rank (minimum 1) Fundamental Banality(Ex): Baalzoth’s horrendous non-being is horrifically lethal to anything in Existence. All of his melee attacks have a critical threat range of 10-20 and deal x5 damage on a successful critical. Cosmic Progenitor (Ex): Baalzoth is intrinsically linked to the essence of Existence, his own non-being having no definition without it. He cannot be killed by any means short of eradicating the entire multiverse along with him in a single attack. If slain by any other means, he is immediately resurrected to full power 1 round later. Shade Imperishable (Su): Baalzoth is surrounded by utter darkness. He gains total concealment. Death Throes (Ex): Each time Baalzoth dies, everything within 4000 miles is disintegrated as if by the disintegrate spell. Any deities or Cosmic Entities in range are allowed a Rank Check to avoid disintegration. Those who successfully save still take 400d20 points of permanent damage (no save). Those slain by this ability, cannot be restored to life by any means. Devastation Deified (Ex): Baalzoth is an entity of absolute havoc and carnage. Any weapon striking him immediately breaks, unless the wielder can succeed on a Rank Check against Baalzoth. All of Baalzoth's attacks are considered Touch attacks and deal permanent hit point drain that cannot be recovered by any means. In addition, Baalzoth's attacks each deal an extra 720 points of permanent damage. Elder Blasphemy (Su): With the recital of forgotten, damnable words, Baalzoth can utterly destroy a creature’s mind. As a full-round action, Baalzoth forces all creatures within 40 miles to succeed on a Will save (DC 240) or die instantly. If the targeted creatures successfully saves, they still take 5d8 Int, 5d8 Wis, and 5d8 Cha drain. This damage can be healed only by an entity who succeeds on a Rank Check against Baalzoth. Maw of Extinction (Ex): Whenever Baalzoth attacks a creature with its bite, the targeted creature must succeed on a Fortitude save DC 240 or be instantly eradicated from Existence. Only a deity who succeeds on a Rank Check can restore a creature destroyed by this ability. Entropic Breath of the Void (Su): Baalzoth is possessed of unsurpassed capability to destroy. As a free action, Baalzoth can spew forth utter annihilation. His breath weapon is a 40000 ft cone, and deals 17,500 points of permanent damage. Reflex save (DC 240) halves damage. Those killed by this ability are utterly destroyed as their spiritual essence is obliterated; nothing can ever restore them to life. Pandemonium Visage (Su): Any creature meeting Baalzoth’s gaze must succeed a Will save DC 240 or fall under the effects of a insanity spell. This affects any number of creatures within 400 ft. Omega Vortex (Su): Baalzoth is surrounded by a traumatic aura of divine nightmares. Any creature entering his Divine Aura (4000 Miles) is subjected to a Vengeful Gaze of God spell, dealing 305d20 points of destructive damage every round that they remain in the aura. Fortitude save DC 240 halves damage. Epic Spells: Baalzoth can prepare 25 epic spells per day. Spellcraft 357 Regeneration (Su): Baalzoth’s regeneration can only be pierced by weapons forged either outside of Creation (in the Stellar Void) or before Creation began. (In the Immemorial Nothingness Before Time) Salient Demiurge Abilities: Supernal Blast, Supernal Shield Salient Overpower Abilities: Awesome Divine Might, Awesome Divine Right, Awesome Mass (2), Bestow Divinity, Critically Wound Enemy, Destroy Weapons, Divine Might, Divine Right, Divine Toughness, Hyperspeed, Seriously Wound Enemy, Strip Divinity, Supreme Alter Reality, Supreme Blast, Supreme Divine Storm, Supreme Energy Blast, Supreme Energy Storm, Supreme Shield, Supreme Toughness, Vicious Shield, Widen Divine Blast Salient Divine Abilities: Alter Reality, Annihilating Strike, Battlesense, Clearsight, Craft Artifact, Divine Blast, Divine Celerity, Divine Dodge, Divine Shield, Divine Spellcasting, Divine Splendor, Divine Storm, Energy Blast, Energy Strom, Free Move, Hand of Death, Life Drain, Life and Death, Mass Divine Blast, Mass Life and Death, Supreme Initiative, Sunder and Disjoin, Wound Enemy, Wave of Chaos Spell-like Abilities: CL 300, DC 150 + spell level At will- Quickened Wish, Quickened Miracle, Quickened Reality Revision Spells: Baalzoth casts spells as a 300th level Sorcerer. He may memorize any spell from any spell list, levels 1-89, DC 150 + spell level Supra-Divine: (Su) Baalzoth is beyond divinity. He is immune to Divine, Antidivine, Holy, and Unholy damage and cannot be affected by Salient Divine Abilities by any deity with a Divine Rank less than 40. Possessions: The Crown of Darkness: Baalzoth’s Crown of Darkness allows him to Smite Good as a Blackguard equal to his HD. Also, the Crown casts one spell (either 100th level through Metamagic or an Epic Spell Dc 1000) of Baalzoth’s choice per round. The Crown is invulnerable and forever bound to its master; it cannot be sundered or disarmed. Demiurge and Overpower Ability Definitions: Supernal Blast [Demiurge] Prequisite: DvR 40, Supreme Blast Benefit: The Demiurge’s Divine Blast deals d100 damage and may be used as a Free Action. The deity may use their Divine Blast 10 times more than normal per day. Supernal Shield [Demiurge] Prerequisite: Dvr 40, Supreme Shield Benefit: The Demiurge’s Divine Shield blocks 1000 hp/DvR in damage before collapsing. The Divine Shield may be activated as a Free Action. The deity may active their Divine Shield 10 times more than normal per day. Awesome Divine Might [Over]: Prerequisite: Divine Might, DvR 26 Benefit: When a creature possesses an immunity to a special attack of the deity, the deity may suppress the immunity with a successful check. (Xd20 + HD + DvR vs opponent’s HD + DvR + Con mod) This has no effect on divine immunities, which require a rank check to bypass. Awesome Divine Right [Over]: Prerequisite: Divine Right, DvR 26 Benefit: The deity suffers no damage or partial effects on a successful save. Awesome Mass [Over]: Prerequisite: Macro-Fine or larger Benefit: The deity is treated ten size categories smaller for the purposes of determining its size penalty to Armor Class and attacks. Special: A deity can have this ability multiple times, its effects stack. Bestow Divinity [Over] Prerequisite: DvR 21 Benefit: The deity can bestow divine rank upon another creature. The divine rank bestowed must be in a lower strata of divinity than the deity is. Critically Wound Enemy [Over] Prerequisite: Seriously Wound Enemy, DvR 26 Benefit: The deity’s physical attacks bleed for 1d6 Constitution damage every round thereafter. This can be stopped with a successful Heal check (DC = 20 + ½ HD + DvR) or the application of any magical healing if a successful caster level check is made. Destroy Weapons: Prerequisite: Penetrable damage reduction Benefit: Weapons that have their damage reduced by the deity’s penetrable damage reduction suffer that damage. Divine Might: Prerequisite: None Benefit: When a creature that has an effect that allows it to ignore partial or half damage on a successful save saves against the deity’s attacks, the creature suffers minimum damage instead. Divine Right: Prerequisite: None Benefit: The deity gains a save against no save effects. If the effect is a spell, the DC is 20 + spell level + modifiers. If the effect is supernatural or extraordinary, the DC is 20 + ½ HD + Con or Cha modifier. The DM determines the most appropriate save type for the effect. Divine Toughness Prerequisite: Con 35 Benefit: The deity gains a number of hit points equal to its divine rank x its hit dice. Hyperspeed [Over] Prerequisite: Divine Celerity, Free Move, Dex 49, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity can make a standard action as a swift action. This does not affect salient divine abilities that have an activation time of one standard action. Seriously Wound Enemy [Over] Prerequisite: Wound Enemy, DvR 26 Benefit: The deity’s physical attacks bleed for 1d12 damage every round thereafter. This can be stopped with a successful Heal check (DC = 20 + ½ HD + DvR) or the application of any magical healing if a successful caster level check is made. Special: A deity can have this ability multiple times, the effects stack. Strip Divinity [Over] Prerequisite: DvR 21 Benefit: The deity can remove divine rank from another creature. The creature must be from a lower strata of divinity than the deity is. An affected deity gains a charisma based Will save to resist. Supreme Alter Reality [Over] Prerequisite: Alter Reality, Cha 39, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity can duplicate the effects of any spell of a level equal to its divine rank or lower as a standard action. The deity can duplicate any epic spell with a Spellcraft DC of 10 x its divine rank as a full round action. These effects are extraordinary and ignore spell resistance or other protections against spells. If a save is allowed against the effect, its DC is Charisma based. Supreme Attack [Over] Prerequisite: DvR 31 Benefit: The deity’s attacks ignore a chosen bonus to Armor Class on creatures from a lower divine strata. Special: A deity can have this ability multiple times. Supreme Blast [Over] Prerequisite: Divine Blast, Cha 39, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s divine blast uses d20 rather than d12 for damage. The ray has no maximum range; it can strike any target the deity can detect. The deity may use this ability at will as a full round action. Supreme Divine Storm [Over] Prerequisite: Divine Storm, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s divine storm uses d10 rather than 1 for damage. The radius is increased to 10 x DvR x space. Creatures are both expelled and damaged if their alignment is not identical to the deity’s. Creatures whose alignment is opposed to the deity’s on one axis suffer double damage. Creatures whose alignment is opposed to the deity’s on both axis suffer triple damage. The Fortitude save is Charisma based. Supreme Energy Blast [Over] Prerequisite: Energy Blast, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s energy blast uses 2d12 rather than 1d8 for damage. The radius is increased to 1000 feet per divine rank. The Reflex or Fort save is Constitution based. Supreme Energy Storm [Over] Prerequisite: Energy Storm, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s energy storm uses 1d10 rather than 1 for damage. The radius is increased to 10 x DvR x space. Supreme Shield [Over] Prerequisite: Divine Shield, Cha 39, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s divine shield can withstand 100 points of damage per divine rank. Supreme Toughness [Over] Prerequisite: Con 49, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity gains a number of hit points equal to 5 x its divine rank x its hit dice. Vicious Shield [Over]: Prerequisite: Divine Shield, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s divine shield deals 1d4 damage per divine rank to any weapon that strikes it. Creatures striking with natural weapons take hit point damage. Widen Divine Blast[Over]: Prerequisite: Mass Divine Blast, DvR 21 Benefit: The deity’s area attacks are extended as follows. Targeted – 100 targets per rank, no maximum range between targets. Cone – 2 miles per rank. Burst – 1 mile radius per rank. Cylinder – 1 mile radius, 1000 foot height per rank. Area attacks allow a Reflex save for half. The DC is Charisma based.
Tshern 03-10-08, 04:41 PM	Is there any way to make him a challenge at L100, even for optimized casters? (Epic spells don't really exist in my games, so in practice this thing is a lot harder to kill) I think that games at this level kind of require a chessiness contract between DM and PCs, since this thing, with preparation, can probably destroy nearly anything too. Taking away epic spells is a decent solution. The problem is, at those levels tactics either suck or are stupendously powerful. I probably don't need to tell you which option is required to take that Titan down. The only hole I can see in your strat without Deny the Weave is that I see nowhere in MDJs description that says he loses access to his SLAs, in which case he is a far more fearsome adversary. (Do keep in mind, that feat his has 27 times (AMC) allows him to add 1 free level a metamagic to his spells every round per number of times he has the feat.) Deny the Weave takes away or magical abilities. Including supernatural and spell-like. MDJ does not strip him from the abilities, but ends all effects that are in place and it takes a standard action to put any ability up (unless otherwise specified). Keep in mind that he cannot cast Celerity on my turn as he has no immediate action ability that would replicate it. Alter reality, Wish and Miracle are all standard action, so he cannot use them to duplicate Celerity on my turn. Sucks to be him. Plus, if you teleport in and spam celerity, he reciprocates with the same before you can cast MDJ, in which case you run out of celerities unless you have unlimited access to them like he does. (that AMC feat negates the need for multispell, he just pays 4 slots of MM to quicken a spell) As above, he has no immediate action ability to duplicate any version of Celerity. So yeah, you might need deny the weave. And if I wanted to be a real jerk, I would interpret the description of Celerity (which mentions Time) and say that he is completely unnaffected by it and acts first regardless. I can do all that without Celerity too by just making sure he can't kill me during the first round. Delay death trick makes me immune to death by hitpoint damage and constructing some ridiculous epic wards (or using Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil) I could negate some of his abilities. Then when my turn starts, I hit a Quickened Wish and start Maw-spam. I'll have a look at the other monster later on.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 05:56 PM	Interesting. So celerity is pretty useless if you duplicate it. So, yeah, officially that way works (or doesn't if the time reference makes him immune) Yay for homebrew Immediate Spell metamagic. :D
Tshern 03-10-08, 06:29 PM	That's an epic feat right? I'll kill you if you give that to pre-epic characters...
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 07:13 PM	Lol. Yeah, super high epic. 53 ranks in spellcraft, requires at least 8 other metamagic feats including Quicken Spell, and Multipsell. Its a +10 spell slot adjustment too, so it only really comes into its own around this level.
Tshern 03-10-08, 07:22 PM	Well, I'd be concerned if a mage would not have Quicken and Multispell at those levels...
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 07:33 PM	Exactly. Its meant as more of a transition around level 50, since multispell starts to get boring by then. :D
Tshern 03-10-08, 07:49 PM	Oh crap, not sure how much time do I have to go through that monster. I got myself assigned to a new job, Iron Siege. I'll try to give it a read though.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-10-08, 08:01 PM	Yeah, I saw that. (I'm SpectreOfEschaton over there, not sure if you know me, since I don't really post a whole lot) Good luck on that. I'm sure you'll set a new bar on Dispater's viciousness with all of your CO knowledge. Looking forward to reading the feeble attempts the others make. (that simulation never fails to amuse) I would give it a shot, but I know I'd fail miserably. I'm only good at optomizing when I have a DM's unlimited power to back me up. Take your time though, I was just throwing him up there. He literally has an ability that says he can't be killed unless you eradicate the entire multiverse in the same blow that you kill him with. He's mostly just a self-indulgence project.:P
Tshern 03-10-08, 08:17 PM	As Witch said, it's pretty much impossible to make it. That's what makes it so darn fun.
Tshern 03-11-08, 09:10 AM	Came up with a tactics I can defeat this monster at level 13 with. This assumes I can use Greater Celerity against the Titan. Build: Race: Any Class: Artificer 13 Stats don't really matter. Items: Staff of Greater Celerity (one charge is enough), Staff of Transcend mortality, Wand of that Ranger spell that makes sure you hit with your next ranged attack, staff of Foresight (one charge) teleportation effect item. Feats: Quicken spell, Extend, Persistent, Ocular Persist the Ranger spell I mentioned and Foresight. Teleport in, cast Greater Celerity, hit the monster with Quickened (use Metamagic item on the staff) Transcend mortality (Wu jen spell from Complete Mage, no save, no SR, use Ocular spell on the staff too) and use standard action to dismiss the spell. He dies. Ta-daa! Edit: Don't have Artificer's progression handy, but this might be done earlier too. Also, not sure if Transcend mortality is a immediate action spell, so I added Quicken spell in just to be sure.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-11-08, 10:44 AM	Devious. Now for questions. What is Occular? Why Artificer (I don't have the ECS or wherever that class is from) Can you actually use Transcend Mortality in that fashion? That's kind of sick. Is that what the artificer is for? Nice job, even though, once again, that tactic should be sufficient to take ANYTHING down. (Except the thing I posted above :P)
Tshern 03-11-08, 12:03 PM	Ocular spell is a metamagic feat from Lords of Madness. Makes a spell a 30ft ray rather than personal/touch spell making it eligible for persisting and putting stuff on other people. Artificer is there merely to save some money. I can craft the staff of Greater Celerity as well and I can use Metamagic item infusion rather than picking up Metamagic spell trigger. You can do this with a Wizard, Sorcerer or pretty much any UMD class as well. Yes, you can use it that way. Unfair? Sure. Effective? Sure. Might be worthwhile to have a contingency against his death throes though. Teleport of some sort should do it just fine. Thanks, mate. I'll see what I can to to that little SOB when I have some of that Iron Siege stuff done. Broker already threw two salient divine abilities to the table. Sigh.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-11-08, 01:25 PM	Well, I must say that's one of the most broken spells in the game by far. Almost makes a Wu Jen worth taking to L18 to get it, although getting it in a spell trigger item sounds so much more delicious. My only worry is that any DM I ever tried it against would call Cheese right away and ban me from ever casting it again. Good thing for you that cheese doesn't apply against the Titan of Oblivion :P Congratualtions on a fine (if stupidly RAW vs RAI) strategy.
Tshern 03-11-08, 01:28 PM	I'm trying to use ways that are not infinity loops and are relatively simple. CR system and a bunch of nasty abilities, mostly spells though, are broken. I suppose taking out the Titan without using tricks like that at such a low level is pretty much impossible. That's why you ought not to face them at that point.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-11-08, 05:08 PM	That's why you ought not to face them at that point. Well I should certainly hope not! I can't imagine anything short of complete madness that would be an acceptable RP reason for a 13th level character to face off against one of these things.
Tshern 03-11-08, 05:27 PM	Sure, it is possible, but as you said, there are little monsters that would not be killed by that. A sinister combination indeed. And no, you can't enter Iron Siege with that in mind.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-11-08, 07:56 PM	And no, you can't enter Iron Siege with that in mind. Are you referring to your little Transcend Mortality cheese? I think Dispater can be killed rather easily; its actually forcing a fight that's the challenge. He's not exactly optimized, is he? Or I could have misunderstood you.
Tshern 03-11-08, 08:07 PM	You understood me perfectly and you are right in both regards. I was talking with Mister Sinister and he suggested I should rebuild Dispater, but that would be cheesy. Too cheesy even for me.
PrinceOfTheVoid 03-11-08, 08:31 PM	As if he's not hard enough to kill already. Is that Transcend Mortality strategy some well-kept secret though? I mean, I've heard of most of the super-cheese tactics, but that's one escaped my notice.
Tshern 03-11-08, 08:40 PM	A new one really, not that much of a secret one. I thought of it the day my friend got Complete Mage, but forgot it until someone brought it up at the CO-board.
thorofasgard13 03-11-08, 10:04 PM	Came up with a tactics I can defeat this monster at level 13 with. This assumes I can use Greater Celerity against the Titan. Build: Race: Any Class: Artificer 13 Stats don't really matter. Items: Staff of Greater Celerity (one charge is enough), Staff of Transcend mortality, Wand of that Ranger spell that makes sure you hit with your next ranged attack, staff of Foresight (one charge) teleportation effect item. Feats: Quicken spell, Extend, Persistent, Ocular Persist the Ranger spell I mentioned and Foresight. Teleport in, cast Greater Celerity, hit the monster with Quickened (use Metamagic item on the staff) Transcend mortality (Wu jen spell from Complete Mage, no save, no SR, use Ocular spell on the staff too) and use standard action to dismiss the spell. He dies. Ta-daa! Edit: Don't have Artificer's progression handy, but this might be done earlier too. Also, not sure if Transcend mortality is a immediate action spell, so I added Quicken spell in just to be sure. :confused: Transcend Mortality can only be cast on yourself, its range is personal and its target is you. And Ocular spell says "Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells.":confused:
Tshern 03-12-08, 07:06 AM	Change the build then and make it have 4 levels of Spellguard of the Silverymoon.