Vengeful Gaze of God = pointless [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vengeful Gaze of God = pointless [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JudgeDeadd
03-27-07, 04:18 AM Spellcraft DC: 419

The target of this spell is subject to 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a Fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less (or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage

Lessee here. In order to reach the DC of 419, the wizard - assuming that he would roll a 20, had an Intelligence modifier of +40 and had the maximum Spellcraft rank possible - would need to be about level 356.

At this level, he would have probably about (assuming he has a Con of 20) 2492 hp. Therefore, a 200d6 damage wouldn't kill him outright, even if it did 1200 damage.

As for his opponent, how many HP would they have? Their HPs would likely go into tens of thousands. Remember that even the great wyrm prismatic dragon has at least 2184 hp, and they are of CR 66; and we're facing a creature with a CR over 350 here. A 350d6 damage therefore would give them just a nosebleed.

Am I right, or am I right?
runestar
03-27-07, 06:47 AM You would be right, assuming that wotc had actually designed the spell with the intention of you one day getting round to casting it.

I doubt that was ever their intention. Rather, it was simply to highlight/showcase the infinite possibilities/scalability of epic spellcasting, such that it could still be used when you play lv200+ characters.

It is also darn obvious that the spell is far from optimized. Increasing the damage die from d6 to d12 alone allows you to halve the number of die needed, letting you drop the dc by about 200.:P
rob_douglas
03-27-07, 02:51 PM And there is nothing stopping you from giving it to any creature you want as a spell-like ability, making the DC irrelevant.

And what makes you think a level 300+ wizard will only have a CON of 20! Why won't he cast a 100-day CON boosting spell that grants +100 CON first? The only real minimum level in this is that the backlash damage can't be more than 2*HD dice, so the caster has to be at least 100th level. An item of +30 to spellcraft is only 90,000gp, but an item of +100 spellcraft is just a cool 1,000,000gp, which is cheap for a 100th level character. So I have +203 to spellcraft there, and can take 10 on the roll, so 213. So I need +206 more. Granted, INT of 422 seems a bit high. Someone who honestly wanted to cast this at 100th level would do well to redesign the spell to have some ritual mitigation. But as Runestar says, it just shows that the game is infinitely scalable.

ROB
StruckingFuggle
03-27-07, 02:56 PM You would be right, assuming that wotc had actually designed the spell with the intention of you one day getting round to casting it.

I doubt that was ever their intention. Rather, it was simply to highlight/showcase the infinite possibilities/scalability of epic spellcasting, such that it could still be used when you play lv200+ characters.

But then by the OP's example, what it shows is that it scales poorly, doesn't it?
JudgeDeadd
03-28-07, 02:00 AM And what makes you think a level 300+ wizard will only have a CON of 20!

Well, I was trying to be as helpful to the WotC as possible.

And you are right, by the time you will be capable of casting this spell, it will be useless.
Aluroon
03-28-07, 08:38 AM Well, I was trying to be as helpful to the WotC as possible.

And you are right, by the time you will be capable of casting this spell, it will be useless.

Errrrr.... Hooray for you? Why did you need to point out the fact that you realized the obvious?
deadskinmask
03-28-07, 09:17 AM You could, just for fun, cast a spell that wraps the target in 305 bandages and call it the Vengeful Gauze of God.

:D :rimshot:
Grandmaster_Kane
03-28-07, 02:04 PM none of this matters cuz the massive damge would kill you even if you had 1million hp left
bluemage55
03-28-07, 02:54 PM none of this matters cuz the massive damge would kill you even if you had 1million hp left

Except that they get a saving throw that they will almost always succeed at.
NoldorForce
03-28-07, 03:26 PM Which is why you try to force a natural 1 with lots of attacks, and why many of the high-level DMs I've seen simply don't use the massive damage rules
Aniona_Amakiir
03-28-07, 07:29 PM Which is why you try to force a natural 1 with lots of attacks, and why many of the high-level DMs I've seen simply don't use the massive damage rulesForce a natural 1 with a spell that deals 200d6 points of backlash damage? Id like to see the caster that would live through that...
runestar
03-28-07, 11:06 PM Well, a spell's spellcraft dc is not necessarily an accurate indicator of how soon he can cast it. I am sure there are plenty of ways to boost your spellcraft dc...:P
kingpaul
03-29-07, 06:24 AM I am sure there are plenty of ways to boost your spellcraft dc...:P
A magic item that boosts your skill for instance.
bluemage55
03-29-07, 01:46 PM The backlash, on the other hand, is. The backlash on vengeful gaze of god requires a 100th level caster.
DragonBringerX
04-02-07, 09:15 PM Lessee here. In order to reach the DC of 419, the wizard - assuming that he would roll a 20, had an Intelligence modifier of +40 and had the maximum Spellcraft rank possible - would need to be about level 356.

At this level, he would have probably about (assuming he has a Con of 20) 2492 hp. Therefore, a 200d6 damage wouldn't kill him outright, even if it did 1200 damage.

As for his opponent, how many HP would they have? Their HPs would likely go into tens of thousands. Remember that even the great wyrm prismatic dragon has at least 2184 hp, and they are of CR 66; and we're facing a creature with a CR over 350 here. A 350d6 damage therefore would give them just a nosebleed.

Am I right, or am I right?

check out my epic spellcasting system 3.5
at lv 74, I see VGoG being very usuful...IMO
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-02-07, 11:39 PM A magic item that boosts your skill for instance.

+200 would be 4,000,000 gp. Pocket change.
Yodasatomicweed
04-02-07, 11:59 PM Yes, but have fun paying that XP and gold cost for developing it. Plus, the really retarded part is that, percentage-wise, you're probably dealing more damage to yourself than you are to them. "Here, I'll take off 10% of its health while I remove over 50% of mine, assuming I survive..."
bluemage55
04-03-07, 02:41 AM +200 would be 4,000,000 gp. Pocket change.

As of 3.5, items that grant competence bonuses require an equal number of ranks in the skill in question.

Thus, an item that grants +200 competence to Spellcraft would require a creator with 200 ranks in Spellcraft (not attainable prior to 197th level).
runestar
04-03-07, 04:14 AM or in a pinch, wish for one.:D
bluemage55
04-03-07, 05:35 PM EDIT: I can't do math anymore.
feartheinvinceblehamster
04-03-07, 06:15 PM We had a "caster dies" mitigating factor around here, a while back. I think it was like DC -100 or 200.
Yodasatomicweed
04-03-07, 06:47 PM Bluemage, cut it down to 104 with a Rod of Excellent Magic, which will cut off up to 2,000 XP per day from a magic spell.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-03-07, 09:33 PM As of 3.5, items that grant competence bonuses require an equal number of ranks in the skill in question.

Thus, an item that grants +200 competence to Spellcraft would require a creator with 200 ranks in Spellcraft (not attainable prior to 197th level).

If I was saying that it was to be created I'd have used the creation cost.
bluemage55
04-03-07, 11:02 PM Bluemage, cut it down to 104 with a Rod of Excellent Magic, which will cut off up to 2,000 XP per day from a magic spell.

Actually, I did my math wrong; it's only 85,000 xp.
bluemage55
04-03-07, 11:20 PM If I was saying that it was to be created I'd have used the creation cost.

My point is that it would be insanely difficult to acquire, despite it's relatively low cost.

There are very few beings in the existing D&D cosmology that could create it, and even fewer that would for a low-epic character with nothing to offer in return.
StalkerEntreri
04-04-07, 07:19 AM Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill?

The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god.
aotrscommander
04-04-07, 08:32 AM Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill?

The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god.

The gods in Deities and Demigods are not even close to being able to cast the spell. I once sat and worked out that Wee Jas would have to be about 250+ level to cast it (barring triple digit skill boosters; which according to the book, the deities don't have...)

Mind you, I tend to think that the gods in Deities and Demigods aren't especially Epic in the first place.
Thiez
04-04-07, 08:50 AM Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill?

The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god.

Yes, well, they'd also automatically roll maximum damage on the backlash, so that balances it out ;)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-04-07, 01:10 PM My point is that it would be insanely difficult to acquire, despite it's relatively low cost.

There are very few beings in the existing D&D cosmology that could create it, and even fewer that would for a low-epic character with nothing to offer in return.

And my point is that once you're getting into the low hundreds, all semblance of sanity and versimilitude is pretty much gone.
Yodasatomicweed
04-04-07, 01:42 PM While deities might be able to succeed on the skill check needed to cast it, they wouldn't be able to actually develop it in the first place, I think.
Loestalx
04-04-07, 06:57 PM Eh....just cast wish to get a success on your next skill check...there....you can cast a DC 4,000,000 spell.
Witch
04-04-07, 06:58 PM You'd need to research it first. Costs quite the bit of XP.
Loestalx
04-04-07, 07:01 PM You'd need to research it first. Costs quite the bit of XP.

Regardless...it's a rediculous oversight on the side of the game developers. The fact that you can cast these spells that aparently were made to be uncastable with something as easy as a limited wish is pretty careless.
Witch
04-04-07, 07:09 PM Regardless...it's a rediculous oversight on the side of the game developers. The fact that you can cast these spells that aparently were made to be uncastable with something as easy as a limited wish is pretty careless.

But you can't cast them. You need to know a spell before you can cast it. To know a DC 4,000,000 spell, you need to expend 1,440,000,000 XP. Good luck.
Loestalx
04-04-07, 07:15 PM But you can't cast them. You need to know a spell before you can cast it. To know a DC 4,000,000 spell, you need to expend 1,440,000,000 XP. Good luck.

Ok, ignore that number it was just an example. My POINT was that the whole idea of needing to make a spellcraft check to cast these spells is pointless because it can easily be avoided. Something as powerful as epic spells really shouldn't depend on something as simple as a skill check. Too easy to manipulate skills and DCs.
Witch
04-04-07, 07:16 PM I agree that the spellcraft check is pointless. That DC is mostly as a figure for when you can actually afford developing the spell. I use an alternative epic spell system myself, where a skill check isn't even required.
Loestalx
04-04-07, 07:18 PM I agree that the spellcraft check is pointless. That DC is mostly as a figure for when you can actually afford developing the spell. I use an alternative epic spell system myself, where a skill check isn't even required.

Well, I would be very intersted in seeing this as my players are soon to hit epic level and are already looking for ways to exploit and loophole.
Witch
04-04-07, 07:20 PM Well, I would be very intersted in seeing this as my players are soon to hit epic level and are already looking for ways to exploit and loophole.

http://www.danbrijbag.com/lounge/ESVDF.pdf is the system (though there's a few variants going on).

This gives Epic Spells that are actually useable in combat. For some examples, see my developed Epic Spells here (several over the entire thread, some more succesful than others - ignore "True Wish", for one). http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5320
Loestalx
04-04-07, 07:22 PM http://www.danbrijbag.com/lounge/ESVDF.pdf is the system (though there's a few variants going on).

This gives Epic Spells that are actually useable in combat. For some examples, see my developed Epic Spells here (several over the entire thread, some more succesful than others - ignore "True Wish", for one). http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5320

Thanks alot, I will probably try this stuff out.
Yodasatomicweed
04-05-07, 12:13 PM Because epic spells require Spellcraft checks, a spell is beyond the caster�s ability if the final Spellcraft DC is greater than 20 + the spellcaster�s Spellcraft modifier.
It's a bit harder to get a lasting bonus to your spellcraft modifier like that, since it's not a one shot deal.
Saiyamantis
04-09-07, 03:44 AM Vengeful Gaze of God is a "because we could" spell, much like Cataract of Fire (Champions of Ruin). If you want something truly pointless, look at Origin of Species: Achaierai- 100 days, 31 friends, and a good chance of killing yourself to make a CR 5 creature that's not even fully grown.
Chanmanm8
04-09-07, 10:39 AM You could, just for fun, cast a spell that wraps the target in 305 bandages and call it the Vengeful Gauze of God.

:D :rimshot:

lol:rofl:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JudgeDeadd 03-27-07, 04:18 AM	Spellcraft DC: 419 The target of this spell is subject to 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a Fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less (or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage Lessee here. In order to reach the DC of 419, the wizard - assuming that he would roll a 20, had an Intelligence modifier of +40 and had the maximum Spellcraft rank possible - would need to be about level 356. At this level, he would have probably about (assuming he has a Con of 20) 2492 hp. Therefore, a 200d6 damage wouldn't kill him outright, even if it did 1200 damage. As for his opponent, how many HP would they have? Their HPs would likely go into tens of thousands. Remember that even the great wyrm prismatic dragon has at least 2184 hp, and they are of CR 66; and we're facing a creature with a CR over 350 here. A 350d6 damage therefore would give them just a nosebleed. Am I right, or am I right?
runestar 03-27-07, 06:47 AM	You would be right, assuming that wotc had actually designed the spell with the intention of you one day getting round to casting it. I doubt that was ever their intention. Rather, it was simply to highlight/showcase the infinite possibilities/scalability of epic spellcasting, such that it could still be used when you play lv200+ characters. It is also darn obvious that the spell is far from optimized. Increasing the damage die from d6 to d12 alone allows you to halve the number of die needed, letting you drop the dc by about 200.:P
rob_douglas 03-27-07, 02:51 PM	And there is nothing stopping you from giving it to any creature you want as a spell-like ability, making the DC irrelevant. And what makes you think a level 300+ wizard will only have a CON of 20! Why won't he cast a 100-day CON boosting spell that grants +100 CON first? The only real minimum level in this is that the backlash damage can't be more than 2*HD dice, so the caster has to be at least 100th level. An item of +30 to spellcraft is only 90,000gp, but an item of +100 spellcraft is just a cool 1,000,000gp, which is cheap for a 100th level character. So I have +203 to spellcraft there, and can take 10 on the roll, so 213. So I need +206 more. Granted, INT of 422 seems a bit high. Someone who honestly wanted to cast this at 100th level would do well to redesign the spell to have some ritual mitigation. But as Runestar says, it just shows that the game is infinitely scalable. ROB
StruckingFuggle 03-27-07, 02:56 PM	You would be right, assuming that wotc had actually designed the spell with the intention of you one day getting round to casting it. I doubt that was ever their intention. Rather, it was simply to highlight/showcase the infinite possibilities/scalability of epic spellcasting, such that it could still be used when you play lv200+ characters. But then by the OP's example, what it shows is that it scales poorly, doesn't it?
JudgeDeadd 03-28-07, 02:00 AM	And what makes you think a level 300+ wizard will only have a CON of 20! Well, I was trying to be as helpful to the WotC as possible. And you are right, by the time you will be capable of casting this spell, it will be useless.
Aluroon 03-28-07, 08:38 AM	Well, I was trying to be as helpful to the WotC as possible. And you are right, by the time you will be capable of casting this spell, it will be useless. Errrrr.... Hooray for you? Why did you need to point out the fact that you realized the obvious?
deadskinmask 03-28-07, 09:17 AM	You could, just for fun, cast a spell that wraps the target in 305 bandages and call it the Vengeful Gauze of God. :D :rimshot:
Grandmaster_Kane 03-28-07, 02:04 PM	none of this matters cuz the massive damge would kill you even if you had 1million hp left
bluemage55 03-28-07, 02:54 PM	none of this matters cuz the massive damge would kill you even if you had 1million hp left Except that they get a saving throw that they will almost always succeed at.
NoldorForce 03-28-07, 03:26 PM	Which is why you try to force a natural 1 with lots of attacks, and why many of the high-level DMs I've seen simply don't use the massive damage rules
Aniona_Amakiir 03-28-07, 07:29 PM	Which is why you try to force a natural 1 with lots of attacks, and why many of the high-level DMs I've seen simply don't use the massive damage rulesForce a natural 1 with a spell that deals 200d6 points of backlash damage? Id like to see the caster that would live through that...
runestar 03-28-07, 11:06 PM	Well, a spell's spellcraft dc is not necessarily an accurate indicator of how soon he can cast it. I am sure there are plenty of ways to boost your spellcraft dc...:P
kingpaul 03-29-07, 06:24 AM	I am sure there are plenty of ways to boost your spellcraft dc...:P A magic item that boosts your skill for instance.
bluemage55 03-29-07, 01:46 PM	The backlash, on the other hand, is. The backlash on vengeful gaze of god requires a 100th level caster.
DragonBringerX 04-02-07, 09:15 PM	Lessee here. In order to reach the DC of 419, the wizard - assuming that he would roll a 20, had an Intelligence modifier of +40 and had the maximum Spellcraft rank possible - would need to be about level 356. At this level, he would have probably about (assuming he has a Con of 20) 2492 hp. Therefore, a 200d6 damage wouldn't kill him outright, even if it did 1200 damage. As for his opponent, how many HP would they have? Their HPs would likely go into tens of thousands. Remember that even the great wyrm prismatic dragon has at least 2184 hp, and they are of CR 66; and we're facing a creature with a CR over 350 here. A 350d6 damage therefore would give them just a nosebleed. Am I right, or am I right? check out my epic spellcasting system 3.5 at lv 74, I see VGoG being very usuful...IMO
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-02-07, 11:39 PM	A magic item that boosts your skill for instance. +200 would be 4,000,000 gp. Pocket change.
Yodasatomicweed 04-02-07, 11:59 PM	Yes, but have fun paying that XP and gold cost for developing it. Plus, the really retarded part is that, percentage-wise, you're probably dealing more damage to yourself than you are to them. "Here, I'll take off 10% of its health while I remove over 50% of mine, assuming I survive..."
bluemage55 04-03-07, 02:41 AM	+200 would be 4,000,000 gp. Pocket change. As of 3.5, items that grant competence bonuses require an equal number of ranks in the skill in question. Thus, an item that grants +200 competence to Spellcraft would require a creator with 200 ranks in Spellcraft (not attainable prior to 197th level).
runestar 04-03-07, 04:14 AM	or in a pinch, wish for one.:D
bluemage55 04-03-07, 05:35 PM	EDIT: I can't do math anymore.
feartheinvinceblehamster 04-03-07, 06:15 PM	We had a "caster dies" mitigating factor around here, a while back. I think it was like DC -100 or 200.
Yodasatomicweed 04-03-07, 06:47 PM	Bluemage, cut it down to 104 with a Rod of Excellent Magic, which will cut off up to 2,000 XP per day from a magic spell.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-03-07, 09:33 PM	As of 3.5, items that grant competence bonuses require an equal number of ranks in the skill in question. Thus, an item that grants +200 competence to Spellcraft would require a creator with 200 ranks in Spellcraft (not attainable prior to 197th level). If I was saying that it was to be created I'd have used the creation cost.
bluemage55 04-03-07, 11:02 PM	Bluemage, cut it down to 104 with a Rod of Excellent Magic, which will cut off up to 2,000 XP per day from a magic spell. Actually, I did my math wrong; it's only 85,000 xp.
bluemage55 04-03-07, 11:20 PM	If I was saying that it was to be created I'd have used the creation cost. My point is that it would be insanely difficult to acquire, despite it's relatively low cost. There are very few beings in the existing D&D cosmology that could create it, and even fewer that would for a low-epic character with nothing to offer in return.
StalkerEntreri 04-04-07, 07:19 AM	Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill? The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god.
aotrscommander 04-04-07, 08:32 AM	Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill? The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god. The gods in Deities and Demigods are not even close to being able to cast the spell. I once sat and worked out that Wee Jas would have to be about 250+ level to cast it (barring triple digit skill boosters; which according to the book, the deities don't have...) Mind you, I tend to think that the gods in Deities and Demigods aren't especially Epic in the first place.
Thiez 04-04-07, 08:50 AM	Well...let's see...it's called vengeful gaze of god...maybe it's useable by god characters, like in Deities and Demigods; I mean don't major deities automatically succeed at any given skill? The 200d6 back at the god might be fateful with maximum, depending on the god. Yes, well, they'd also automatically roll maximum damage on the backlash, so that balances it out ;)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-04-07, 01:10 PM	My point is that it would be insanely difficult to acquire, despite it's relatively low cost. There are very few beings in the existing D&D cosmology that could create it, and even fewer that would for a low-epic character with nothing to offer in return. And my point is that once you're getting into the low hundreds, all semblance of sanity and versimilitude is pretty much gone.
Yodasatomicweed 04-04-07, 01:42 PM	While deities might be able to succeed on the skill check needed to cast it, they wouldn't be able to actually develop it in the first place, I think.
Loestalx 04-04-07, 06:57 PM	Eh....just cast wish to get a success on your next skill check...there....you can cast a DC 4,000,000 spell.
Witch 04-04-07, 06:58 PM	You'd need to research it first. Costs quite the bit of XP.
Loestalx 04-04-07, 07:01 PM	You'd need to research it first. Costs quite the bit of XP. Regardless...it's a rediculous oversight on the side of the game developers. The fact that you can cast these spells that aparently were made to be uncastable with something as easy as a limited wish is pretty careless.
Witch 04-04-07, 07:09 PM	Regardless...it's a rediculous oversight on the side of the game developers. The fact that you can cast these spells that aparently were made to be uncastable with something as easy as a limited wish is pretty careless. But you can't cast them. You need to know a spell before you can cast it. To know a DC 4,000,000 spell, you need to expend 1,440,000,000 XP. Good luck.
Loestalx 04-04-07, 07:15 PM	But you can't cast them. You need to know a spell before you can cast it. To know a DC 4,000,000 spell, you need to expend 1,440,000,000 XP. Good luck. Ok, ignore that number it was just an example. My POINT was that the whole idea of needing to make a spellcraft check to cast these spells is pointless because it can easily be avoided. Something as powerful as epic spells really shouldn't depend on something as simple as a skill check. Too easy to manipulate skills and DCs.
Witch 04-04-07, 07:16 PM	I agree that the spellcraft check is pointless. That DC is mostly as a figure for when you can actually afford developing the spell. I use an alternative epic spell system myself, where a skill check isn't even required.
Loestalx 04-04-07, 07:18 PM	I agree that the spellcraft check is pointless. That DC is mostly as a figure for when you can actually afford developing the spell. I use an alternative epic spell system myself, where a skill check isn't even required. Well, I would be very intersted in seeing this as my players are soon to hit epic level and are already looking for ways to exploit and loophole.
Witch 04-04-07, 07:20 PM	Well, I would be very intersted in seeing this as my players are soon to hit epic level and are already looking for ways to exploit and loophole. http://www.danbrijbag.com/lounge/ESVDF.pdf is the system (though there's a few variants going on). This gives Epic Spells that are actually useable in combat. For some examples, see my developed Epic Spells here (several over the entire thread, some more succesful than others - ignore "True Wish", for one). http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5320
Loestalx 04-04-07, 07:22 PM	http://www.danbrijbag.com/lounge/ESVDF.pdf is the system (though there's a few variants going on). This gives Epic Spells that are actually useable in combat. For some examples, see my developed Epic Spells here (several over the entire thread, some more succesful than others - ignore "True Wish", for one). http://dicefreaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5320 Thanks alot, I will probably try this stuff out.
Yodasatomicweed 04-05-07, 12:13 PM	Because epic spells require Spellcraft checks, a spell is beyond the caster�s ability if the final Spellcraft DC is greater than 20 + the spellcaster�s Spellcraft modifier. It's a bit harder to get a lasting bonus to your spellcraft modifier like that, since it's not a one shot deal.
Saiyamantis 04-09-07, 03:44 AM	Vengeful Gaze of God is a "because we could" spell, much like Cataract of Fire (Champions of Ruin). If you want something truly pointless, look at Origin of Species: Achaierai- 100 days, 31 friends, and a good chance of killing yourself to make a CR 5 creature that's not even fully grown.
Chanmanm8 04-09-07, 10:39 AM	You could, just for fun, cast a spell that wraps the target in 305 bandages and call it the Vengeful Gauze of God. :D :rimshot: lol:rofl: